Reno Bighorns not helping Kings.

[CruzDude]

But why are not the Kings D-League team the Reno Bighorns helping the mother team? Is not the main purpose of a D-League affiliate to run the parent system and prepare their players to more easily get up to the NBA? Apparently they are entertaining but they are not helping the Kings develop players.

They have a losing record (14-17) and are coached by a Division III Coach with a WWII mentality of "Shoot first ask questions later". There is a huge disconnect here. If they are to help develop potential players for the Kings, they have to develop a game plan that, now, will follow what Coach Karl is doing in SacTown.

Sim Bhular has some rather good, big man basketball skills but until he gets his weight down below 320 from a current 360, he just can't run the floor enough to help. The fact that he is still listed at 360 is part of the problem, in fact the main problem as he was listed at 360 last summer and last October. Another Oliver Miller we don't need.

There have been a lot of disconnects this season until now. So let's get on the bandwagon and push for an NBA like attitude and game plan for the Bighorns so they can finally help their parent team.

 

[VF21]

If you read the article about Vivek, you'll see that the Reno Bighorns are his laboratory, his test tube. Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's patoot what they do in Reno right now. I'm just glad they're no longer using the Kings for their experiments.

 

[9x1x6]

Wish we wouldnt have let Miller and Heslip walk.

Reno is even more meh now

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If you read the article about Vivek, you'll see that the Reno Bighorns are his laboratory, his test tube. Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's patoot what they do in Reno right now. I'm just glad they're no longer using the Kings for their experiments.

I've got to beg to differ here. I get being more concerned with what's going on with the Kings at the moment, or at all times, really. But you also have to take the long view, and if you're not going to use your own dedicated Development League affiliate to, you know, actually develop players to actually be useful on the NBA level, then there's no point in having one.

 

[VF21]

I've got to beg to differ here. I get being more concerned with what's going on with the Kings at the moment, or at all times, really. But you also have to take the long view, and if you're not going to use your own dedicated Development League affiliate to, you know, actually develop players to actually be useful on the NBA level, then there's no point in having one.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but it doesn't change the fact that I personally don't care what happens in Reno. I don't have to take the long view.

 

[Bricklayer]

No they're not.

EXCEPT in one big and critical way that makes me want to stay hands off there: they give Vivek his toy. They keep him from further mucking up the mothership team. Its dangerous because it could bleed over, it doesn't prepare anybody there for NBA basketball. Its a waste in all ways but this important one: keeping our owner from getting bored and hurting himself, and us in the process. Its like throwing a kid a toy in the backseat. Sure, he may break the toy, but at least he's not doodling on the back of the seats with his crayons.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I look at it like this: if we'd had a D-League affiliate during the peak of the Adelman/Petrie run, we might still be a playoff team right now.

Let's be optimistic and imagine that the Karl hire works out as well as we all hope. Let's imagine that, under Karl, we're in the playoffs picture for the next 5-7 years, with 2-3 years as a legit title contender. We could be picking in the twenties for a few years, and the prospects aren't going to get any playing time. There should be a place where those kids can get real-time playing experience, so that they will actually be ready, if and when we need them.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No they're not.

EXCEPT in one big and critical way that makes me want to stay hands off there: they give Vivek his toy. They keep him from further mucking up the mothership team. Its dangerous because it could bleed over, it doesn't prepare anybody there for NBA basketball. Its a waste in all ways but this important one: keeping our owner from getting bored and hurting himself, and us in the process. Its like throwing a kid a toy in the backseat. Sure, he may break the toy, but at least he's not doodling on the back of the seats with his crayons.

Well, ****, I guess hoping that the owner pulls his head out of his ass and stop meddling with the Kings and let the Bighorns become a useful asset is just too much to ask.

 

[VF21]

Well, ****, I guess hoping that the owner pulls his head out of his ass and stop meddling with the Kings and let the Bighorns become a useful asset is just too much to ask.

I'd prefer accepting the first and keeping a slim hope for the second over the other way around.

 

[VF21]

I look at it like this: if we'd had a D-League affiliate during the peak of the Adelman/Petrie run, we might still be a playoff team right now.

Let's be optimistic and imagine that the Karl hire works out as well as we all hope. Let's imagine that, under Karl, we're in the playoffs picture for the next 5-7 years, with 2-3 years as a legit title contender. We could be picking in the twenties for a few years, and the prospects aren't going to get any playing time. There should be a place where those kids can get real-time playing experience, so that they will actually be ready, if and when we need them.

I'm going to ask a question without already knowing the answer... Out of the past 10 championship teams, how many of them have benefited from their D-League affiliations? I'm honestly curious but nowhere near enough to actually dig up the answers myself.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm going to ask a question without already knowing the answer... Out of the past 10 championship teams, how many of them have benefited from their D-League affiliations? I'm honestly curious but nowhere near enough to actually dig up the answers myself.

The D-League hasn't existed in its current form long enough for that question to have a real answer. I can tell you that the Spurs cycle their deep benchers to their D-League affiliate on a semi-regular basis, and those guys are always ready to contribute when called upon.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

D-League isn't quite like farm baseball or soccer team's with reserve clubs. Most of these guys are never going to be NBA ready and only one or two maximum are even the parent club's property.

I kind of agree with Brick, let Vivek get all the terrible ideas out of his system in the D-League and leave the Kings to the pros.

 

[SLAB]

The fact they're even close to .500 with their system surprises me.

 

[Glenn]

I've got to beg to differ here. I get being more concerned with what's going on with the Kings at the moment, or at all times, really. But you also have to take the long view, and if you're not going to use your own dedicated Development League affiliate to, you know, actually develop players to actually be useful on the NBA level, then there's no point in having one.

It's none of our business, is it? It's Vivek's team for him to play with.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's none of our business, is it? It's Vivek's team for him to play with.

So are the Kings, if you want to go that route.

 

[VF21]

The D-League hasn't existed in its current form long enough for that question to have a real answer. I can tell you that the Spurs cycle their deep benchers to their D-League affiliate on a semi-regular basis, and those guys are always ready to contribute when called upon.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about the D-League and championships:

Currently, there are only 25 players with D-League experience who won an NBA title: one (Tremaine Fowlkes) with the Detroit Pistons in 2003–04, two (Devin Brown and Mike Wilks) with the San Antonio Spurs in 2004–05, two (Earl Barron and Dorell Wright) with the Miami Heat in 2005–06, one (James White) with the San Antonio Spurs in 2006–07, one (Gabe Pruitt) with the Boston Celtics in 2007–08, one (Sun Yue) with the Los Angeles Lakers in 2008–09, three (Shannon Brown , Jordan Farmar, and Josh Powell) with the Lakers in both 2008–09[22] and 2009-10, four (Jose Juan Barea, Rodrigue Beaubois, Ian Mahinmi, and Dominique Jones) with the Dallas Mavericks in 2010-11, two (Dexter Pittman and Terrel Harris) with the Heat in 2011-12, two (Jarvis Varnado and Chris Andersen) with the Heat in 2012-13, and a record six (Aron Baynes, Austin Daye, Danny Green, Damion James, Cory Joseph, and Patty Mills) with the Spurs in 2013-14. Bobby Simmons and Aaron Brooks are the only former D-League players to win an NBA end of season award; Simmons won the Most Improved Player Award with the Los Angeles Clippers in 2004–05 and Brooks won the Most Improved Player Award with the Houston Rockets in 2009–10.[23][24]

 

[Larry David]

You get your own D-League a team to:

3. Stock a team with about 9 guys who want to play in that league because they are operating under the false hope that they will crack the NBA faster, when they should probably just go over to Europe for more money now because they will end up there. It’s fine if they turn out to be a 13th man. You don’t control their rights but maybe they feel loyal to you and the league can’t function without them. Not a big deal, very little hope.

2. Funnel one or two guys that you find interesting or made a good showing into camp so that your people can take a second long look at them. You don’t control the rights of these players, but you’ve shown so much interest them that you really hope they might be loyal. Not a big deal, very limited home.

1. If you have an NBA prospect that isn’t ready for NBA ball, you have a place where you can develop him under circumstances you control. For the most part, the league doesn’t function this way. But, essentially, about 95% of the D-League is set up on the hope or assumption that either you might need to send a player down there or the league may start to function as a true minor league.

This lab stuff is such utter non-sense. The Rockets believe that it’s a better idea take a 3 over a long 2 (everybody is pro layups). That’s not provocative and there isn’t much math involved. To say that the Rockets are leading some revelatory “outside the box” shift is to ignore what happened with the three over 20 years. Everybody takes more now. The Rockets just took a few more than everybody taking more before it was cool. Their D-League team prepares players to play for the Rockets on the off-chance that happen.

Unless, your entire game is predicated upon the 19 foot jumper, there is nothing good or bad about playing for the Rocket’s D-League team. It’s no different than playing for any other team.

It’s not that Reno plays fast. If they were doing the Westhead Denver system, then fine, whatever. They are running Grinell non-sense that doesn’t relate to actual basketball at the NBA or even college level, particularly on defense. It’s like training for the Tour De France by riding a unicycle and juggling (which is stupid and not outside the box or working in any type of lab.”

Which defeats the primary purpose of having a D-League team in the first place. If you need to get Nik some run, do you have a well-run semi-pro team where you can drop him in for a little bit so they can get time doing NBA things? We don’t. And that’s why Reno is a bad idea.

 

[Larry David]

It's none of our business, is it? It's Vivek's team for him to play with.

Do you ever want to sign a decent free agent for similar money to other teams, as opposed to massively overpaying? Would you like to hire a coach or GM that isn't looking for his first or probably last job?

The truth is most of the NBA considers Sacramento to be both a joke and NBA Siberia. Bad teams that's poorly run. Having a D-League team that is a total farce, an owner that doesn't realize it's a farce and instead thinks he's going to revolutionize basketball with his grand ideas, and front office people who cannot control the owners stupid ideas hurts some on both fronts.

And yes, Vivek's NBA ideas are stupid. He isn't stupid in general and he's certainly not stupid in general business or his field. But his NBA ideas are stupid. The notion that he can throw stupid ideas all the time and help the group is stupid. You can be brilliant in one field and stupid in another. Vivek is a very smart and successful man. If I gave him a large rock and told him to chisel a statue, he would be "stupid" in that field.

If I asked him to qualify for the Daytona 500, he would be stupid in that field. If he asked me if we'd considered racing the car in reverse because his daughter won a race in reverse in the 7th grade, he would have asked a stupid question. If his response to my explanation that there is only one gear in reverse and 5 going forward is to ask, "Have you ever thought about adding 5 or 6 gears for reverse" he would have responded to my efforts to be kind with more stupidity. Eventually, I would get tried of how stupid he was. A smart person would back off and keep a decent crew chief around and learn as we sent along. Instead, Vivek fired a decent crew chief that was tired of his stupid boss and hired somebody that was clearly among the worst crew chiefs in all of NASCAR over the past 3 years. That would be stupid. Allowing the race team to devolve and run off fans for two months in spite of the obviousness of the mistakes is stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Vivek is ignorant about the NBA. Vivek has stupid NBA ideas. That's not a big deal. That's a lot of owners. Vivek's problem is that he view his willingness to frequently raise and sometimes impose ignorant and stupid ideas as a good thing because he's thinking "outside the box." That's the problem. Not that he's NBA stupid. It's that he runs his bad, small market team like an a**hole with a new toy. If the doesn't stop soon, that's going to impact the quality of the people that stay or come here.

 

[bajaden]

No they're not.

EXCEPT in one big and critical way that makes me want to stay hands off there: they give Vivek his toy. They keep him from further mucking up the mothership team. Its dangerous because it could bleed over, it doesn't prepare anybody there for NBA basketball. Its a waste in all ways but this important one: keeping our owner from getting bored and hurting himself, and us in the process. Its like throwing a kid a toy in the backseat. Sure, he may break the toy, but at least he's not doodling on the back of the seats with his crayons.

Hey, they'll probably be in great shape from running up and down the court..

 

[bajaden]

I look at it like this: if we'd had a D-League affiliate during the peak of the Adelman/Petrie run, we might still be a playoff team right now.

Let's be optimistic and imagine that the Karl hire works out as well as we all hope. Let's imagine that, under Karl, we're in the playoffs picture for the next 5-7 years, with 2-3 years as a legit title contender. We could be picking in the twenties for a few years, and the prospects aren't going to get any playing time. There should be a place where those kids can get real-time playing experience, so that they will actually be ready, if and when we need them.

While I agree with VF21 that the team belongs to Vivek and he can do what he wants with it, that same rule applies to the Kings, and I certainly have an opinion about them. So I agree with you on how the D-League team should be used. It should be a mirror image of the parent team for the sole purpose of preparing young inexperienced players for the big time. In theory it should run the same defensive and offensive schemes in order to make the transition as seamless as possible. My hope is that Karl can influence Vivek to see the positives of having a D-League team that prepares players to play for the Kings, and not reflect a video game.

 

[Section 101]

This isn't baseball. The D-League teams is pretty useless for the NBA team unless it's for players coming back from injury to get into shape or sending down a rookie to stay in shape. If your relying on the D League to get talent you have already failed.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Which defeats the primary purpose of having a D-League team in the first place. If you need to get Nik some run, do you have a well-run semi-pro team where you can drop him in for a little bit so they can get time doing NBA things? We don’t. And that’s why Reno is a bad idea.

This is what I'm saying. It seems to me that the strongest argument in this thread boils down to, "Well, I've resigned myself to the fact that Vivek is going to meddle and **** things up, no matter what. So, since he's going to do it, anyway, might as well let him **** up the Bighorns, and leave the Kings alone." I think that's a horrible way of dealing with an asset.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This isn't baseball. The D-League teams is pretty useless for the NBA team unless it's for players coming back from injury to get into shape or sending down a rookie to stay in shape. If your relying on the D League to get talent you have already failed.

No, it isn't baseball, but baseball also has a 130 year head start. There is nothing inherent about the sport of basketball that would cause a minor league to not be viable.

 

[Glenn]

This is what I'm saying. It seems to me that the strongest argument in this thread boils down to, "Well, I've resigned myself to the fact that Vivek is going to meddle and **** things up, no matter what. So, since he's going to do it, anyway, might as well let him **** up the Bighorns, and leave the Kings alone." I think that's a horrible way of dealing with an asset.

Anddddddd we all have to hope that the Reno Big Horns satisfy Vivek's meddling jones.

 

[VF21]

This is what I'm saying. It seems to me that the strongest argument in this thread boils down to, "Well, I've resigned myself to the fact that Vivek is going to meddle and **** things up, no matter what. So, since he's going to do it, anyway, might as well let him **** up the Bighorns, and leave the Kings alone." I think that's a horrible way of dealing with an asset.

It might be a horrible way of dealing with an asset, but it's reality. And if the only other option is that he continue to meddle with the Kings, then damn the Bighorns.

In life you have to choose your battles. Sometimes a sacrifice is necessary for the bigger good. To me, the Kings are the bigger good. The Bighorns are the sacrificial lamb, per se.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It might be a horrible way of dealing with an asset, but it's reality. And if the only other option is that he continue to meddle with the Kings, then damn the Bighorns.

In life you have to choose your battles. Sometimes a sacrifice is necessary for the bigger good. To me, the Kings are the bigger good. The Bighorns are the sacrificial lamb, per se.

That's all well, and to the good, unless you're a Lamb's Fan. That sort of attitude on the part of the owners contributed to why the Monarchs don't exist anymore.

 

[Glenn]

It might be a horrible way of dealing with an asset, but it's reality. And if the only other option is that he continue to meddle with the Kings, then damn the Bighorns.

In life you have to choose your battles. Sometimes a sacrifice is necessary for the bigger good. To me, the Kings are the bigger good. The Bighorns are the sacrificial lamb, per se.

Any bets that he uses up all his meddling needs and leaves the Kings alone? The point of the lab is to test for the Kings and eventually to change all basketball in the world. He does not think small.

He's ours and I am grateful the team is here. I have to hold onto that idea. Dang!

 

[Section 101]

No, it isn't baseball, but baseball also has a 130 year head start. There is nothing inherent about the sport of basketball that would cause a minor league to not be viable.

Unless they change it to where everyone on the D League team is under contract to the NBA team it doesn't matter. That's the difference between the NBA and MLB. You could be developing players for other teams.

 

[VF21]

Any bets that he uses up all his meddling needs and leaves the Kings alone? The point of the lab is to test for the Kings and eventually to change all basketball in the world. He does not think small.

He's ours and I am grateful the team is here. I have to hold onto that idea. Dang!

I have no idea whatsoever. I used up all my psychic abilities in another thread.

 

[VF21]

That's all well, and to the good, unless you're a Lamb's Fan. That sort of attitude on the part of the owners contributed to why the Monarchs don't exist anymore.

But I'm not a Lambs fan, so I don't care. So shoot me.