coolhandluke
Starter
Last edited:
Rashard Lewis suspended for taking PEDs
- Thread starter coolhandluke
- Start date
kingsnation
All-Star
Certainly not a name I'd suspect was associated with PEDs, which means it was truly an accident?
kingsnation
All-Star
Yep, I agree 110 % with both of you.
One and Done
Bench
Hopefully this doesn't start a wave of steroid (et al) scandals in NBA news.
Honestly, some guys HAVE to be taking something, but unless its anybody on the Lakers, I'd rather not hear about it and continue living the lie.
Honestly, some guys HAVE to be taking something, but unless its anybody on the Lakers, I'd rather not hear about it and continue living the lie.
AleksandarN
Starter
kennadog
Dog On It!
Totally agree. There's just no excuse for it.
The Hammer
All-Star
Look, it's not that simple. I magage a GNC. There are constantly new substances coming out that can increase testosterone levels, even "natural" things. Just like there are things that balance/increase progesterone and estrogen in females. There are also countless products that contain all kinds of things and many times the labels are deliberately unclear, both in order to protect "proprietary blends" but also to so that when someone takes something they feel a strong result, and think the poduct is clean. I have Seattle Seahawks coming into my store as well as many college atheletes and they are constantly wondering if such and such a product will trigger a positive test result. All of this while there are many genuine, healthy sports supplements that are good and actually should be used by someone working that hard physically. It's just not that simple. A genuine mistake can EASILY happen in this realm.
kennadog
Dog On It!
I disagree. An athlete should stick to what has been tested and declared okay to use. If something new comes out or an athelete wants to use a supplement that hat hasn't been tested and okayed, then ask the league. If I'm an athlete, I'm not taking any supplement that hasn't been okayed by the league, period.
Now if it turns out to be the fault of all that broccoli I've eaten, that would be different.
Now if it turns out to be the fault of all that broccoli I've eaten, that would be different.
I can appreciate how complicated this whole thing is, because there are a lot of different supplements and stuff that people can take, and any of them could have a banned substance that would trigger a positive test. It's certainly not simple or easy.
That said, every player has access to a list of substances that they are not allowed to take. There's been a significant number of professional athletes who have used this excuse by now, to the point that even *I* look at the ingredients of every supplement I take and wonder if there's something in it that is against the rules in MLB or the NFL (not so much the NBA). If you're a professional athlete, you have to carefully scrutinize everything you take, whether over the counter or prescription, to make sure you're not running the risk of getting suspended for breaking the substance abuse policy of your league.
I have every sympathy for athletes like Andreea Raducan, who tested positive for pseudophedrine at the Sydney Olympics in 2000. The night before an event, she took an over the counter cold medicine that her trainer gave her; the trainer was suspended for four years, and she was stripped of her gold medal. Even the women she competed against felt sorry for her, and the woman who was awarded the gold actually gave it back to Raducan. That's an honest mistake, and one that anyone can understand. Still, she broke the rules, and the IOC had no choice but to rule the way they did. Sucks, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
In Lewis' case, however, he tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone, which he claims is a result of DHEA. From what I understand, the testing takes into consideration the already elevated testosterone of a male professional athlete (regular exercise, especially as it pertains to a professionally trained basketball player, will naturally result in increased testosterone levels). So it's not like the rule says "if your testosterone level is even slightly more than normal, you're in violation". There's a buffer, probably a considerable one, to take into account the natural varying amounts of testosterone in a person's body. I find it hard to believe that you can fail a drug test because of elevated testosterone levels without taking something that causes those levels to be elevated.
Which brings us back to the point: You have to know -- for sure, without a shadow of a doubt -- what you are taking into your body. That is solely your responsibility. If you have to hire someone who does nothing but check everything you take, then you do that (Lewis' suspension is costing him $1.6 million; I'd take that job for a fraction of that). It falls at his feet. I have no sympathy for him because, malicious intent or not, he brought this on himself. It could have been avoided.
To those to whom much is given, much is expected... or words to that effect. Rashard Lewis has been blessed with unique skills and has been rewarded with money and fame and an opportunity only given to some 420+ young men a year. With all that, he needs to accept full and total responsibility for making sure he does NOTHING to jeopardize that situation.
I totally agree with Superman and kennadog. It was a totally avoidable situation. I hope others learn from his mistake...
I totally agree with Superman and kennadog. It was a totally avoidable situation. I hope others learn from his mistake...
The Hammer
All-Star
I'll agree with you on some of that. The truth is that none of actually know the details of how the test is conducted and what constitutes a failure. If it is indeed 'elevated testosterone levels', then it becomes much trickier than reading labels. And even if it was about reading labels, what I was saying is that it is quite possible and I'd even say likely, based on my knowledge o the industry that some manufactureres of supplements lie about their ingredients. This is a huge money industry. Personally, if I was Mr. Lewis, I wouldn't trust labels.
You bring up a very interesting possibility. If Lewis is, in fact, that convinced he did nothing wrong he should have the particular compound he purchased tested - to see if it has anything in it not properly listed on the ingredient list.
coolhandluke
Starter
It ain't my fault...
[yt=Don't criticize]zRNbYL99QsQ[/yt]
[yt=Don't criticize]zRNbYL99QsQ[/yt]
The Hammer
All-Star
And here's another one of my points. Apparently they aren't, and in my opinion couldn't, biochemically, test for specific banned substances. With a few they could. But that's what I'm trying to get across to all you black and whiters- it's not that simple. I'll have to explain... there are myriad ways to boost testosterone levels in the body through what is known as the "hormonal cascade" which are various hormone or hormone like substances that the body either directly or indirectly converts or uses to convert into testosterone. The human endocrine system is extremely complex. And we have many scientists constantly coming up with new substances that do it. This is not just for professional atheletes. That's not really where the huge money is. IT'S WITH JUST ABOUT EVERY GUY WHO WALKS INTO A GNC. That is the market that is driving the science. It is simply impossible to view the situation as "well, he just should have read the list and read the labels and not done it, dangit, but he did because he is morally weak or lazy." I mean come on people.
What they can and I believe are doing is testing for elevated testosterone levels, and no testing scheme of that sort is going to be without flaws. And I guarantee you there are pro athletes taking things that boost testosterone levels in some regard, ZINC, for example. Yes, the mineral zinc. It's just a matter of did you get jacked up too far into the fail zone, I imagine. And yeah DHEA does boost testosterone levels in fairly safe way. And apparently is not a banned substnace by the NBA. Maybe he just took too much? Maybe that in combination with DIETARY FACTORS (like cholesterol intake), environmental factors (playoff drive) etc., all contributed. My main point is: We don't know.
And maybe he did take one of these new-fangled substances that the NBA could never possibly test for or even make a list for that did jack up his levels too high.
Look I'm not defending Mr. Lewis and claiming his innocence, I just like to speak up when people oversimplify things and make things a black and white moral issue. It very well probably isn't in this case, and I just happen to have the perspective to understand why.
kupman
Starter
I am with you all the way on this Hammer. It is far, far from a black and white issue. It is far from a simple issue.
I also find it ironic that people are so hard line on this issue. I mean, it is possible to trigger a positive test by taking an over-the-counter substance whether it be DHEA or cough medicine. Who knows what else may trigger an individual's physiology towards a positive test. Floyd Landis believes a shot of tequila did. Are these just a cover-up stories/theories? Who the heck knows.
All the while, professional musicians have been using beta-blockers for decades to enhance performance and they never get grief. Beta-blockers are far from OTC, they take an Rx to get. Also, I am not talking about rock and roller's here. I am talking about high end pianists, violinists etc. Why do they get a pass?
Another irony is that Rashard Lewis now has one more positive drug test that Bonds, Big Mac and Sosa. So, who should be punished most harshly? I mean this question seriously even though I do not think that there is any kind of good answer. ( and yes, my previous HOF comment was done tongue in check).
It is a very complicated issue to say the least.
I also find it ironic that people are so hard line on this issue. I mean, it is possible to trigger a positive test by taking an over-the-counter substance whether it be DHEA or cough medicine. Who knows what else may trigger an individual's physiology towards a positive test. Floyd Landis believes a shot of tequila did. Are these just a cover-up stories/theories? Who the heck knows.
All the while, professional musicians have been using beta-blockers for decades to enhance performance and they never get grief. Beta-blockers are far from OTC, they take an Rx to get. Also, I am not talking about rock and roller's here. I am talking about high end pianists, violinists etc. Why do they get a pass?
Another irony is that Rashard Lewis now has one more positive drug test that Bonds, Big Mac and Sosa. So, who should be punished most harshly? I mean this question seriously even though I do not think that there is any kind of good answer. ( and yes, my previous HOF comment was done tongue in check).
It is a very complicated issue to say the least.
If the whole issue is that clouded, I have to believe the prudent thing for someone who is subjected to random testing to do would be NEVER take anything over the counter unless, as kennadog pointed out, you've had it cleared through the proper channels. There are compounds that have been approved and can be taken for virtually any problem imaginable.
I'm not saying Rashard Lewis intentionally tried to cheat. I'm saying I think the drug testing is necessary and, therefore, people need to make sure they don't fall between the cracks on some of the stuff.
Again, these aren't average guys walking into GNC or anywhere else for that matter. These are highly paid professionals who have trainers, agents, coaches, etc. at their beck and call 24 hours a day. If they have a cold, a sore muscle, clogged sinuses, or a broken finger, they can get medication that will NOT cause them to throw a positive test. They need to make sure they take the responsibility for doing so.
New players coming into the league undergo information classes on the league, the rules, etc. Things like drug tests and ramifications of positives are covered pretty thoroughly. I don't know how much more information they can give. The players have to accept that they're playing under much more stringent requirements than the average guy on the street and act accordingly.
I'm not saying Rashard Lewis intentionally tried to cheat. I'm saying I think the drug testing is necessary and, therefore, people need to make sure they don't fall between the cracks on some of the stuff.
Again, these aren't average guys walking into GNC or anywhere else for that matter. These are highly paid professionals who have trainers, agents, coaches, etc. at their beck and call 24 hours a day. If they have a cold, a sore muscle, clogged sinuses, or a broken finger, they can get medication that will NOT cause them to throw a positive test. They need to make sure they take the responsibility for doing so.
New players coming into the league undergo information classes on the league, the rules, etc. Things like drug tests and ramifications of positives are covered pretty thoroughly. I don't know how much more information they can give. The players have to accept that they're playing under much more stringent requirements than the average guy on the street and act accordingly.
It is my understanding (and I could very well be wrong) that the "elevated levels" threshold is well above what the human body would normally produce on its own. It would mean that, conclusively, you've taken something foreign that resulted in your body having extreme levels of testosterone. Again, I may be wrong, but that's what my understanding has been for years.
And it's true that zinc and other fairly common compounds can be responsible for that kind of result. But here's the thing: the testing is based on what is in your body, not what caused it to be there. So you have to be careful to make sure that you're not in the red zone. That's still your responsibility.
And I don't think I'm what you would call a black and whiter. I understand that things happen, and sometimes you make a mistake without thinking about it. But with all the fuss about illegal PEDs and drug testing for the past several years, as a professional athlete, you have to take responsibility for what goes in your body. I do think that's a black and white issue. The "I took a supplement that triggered a false positive" excuse is out of miles with me. It's "happened" way too many times to have any credibility. If everyone in your department is all of a sudden getting a flat tire on the way to work, pretty soon you lose patience for the flat tire excuse. I've lost patience with the "over the counter supplement" excuse. If it's really that easy to fail a drug test because of something you took over the counter, then, like VF21 said, maybe you should stop taking GNC supplements. That's the smart thing to do. With the resources these guys have at their disposal, they can get the nutritional supplements they need without having to worry about failing a drug test.
It's their job to know what's legal and what's not, so I can't bear to hear how it's an unfortunate mistake anymore.
The Hammer
All-Star
I think we should clarify: technically, he did not fail a "drug test". They were not testing for the presence of banned substances in his blood. He failed an "elevated testosterone levels" test. They were testing for certain levels of testosterone. And to be more clear, while you can definitely get there by taking substances that are on a banned list, you can very likely get there by taking things that are completely allowed by the NBA. Just don't take too much!
kupman
Starter
I really wish this were a straight forward and simple issue. I really do. But I cannot say in good conscious that it is simple.
At the very least think of it this way. Rashrad played a full NBA season. Starting with training camp, into pre-season and then the grueling 82 game regular season. He then went deep into the playoffs and was expected to play his best at the end of that long haul, which was done all while traveling all over the country.
That is an incredible physical demand done 9 months out of the year. I don't think anyone can know what it is like until you have done it yourself.
However, we are going to tell these guys that can't use a perfectly legal OTC substance that may help them with these physical demands because it might spike their T? I can use it, but Rashard Lewis can't?
Does this sound kind of crazy to anyone else?
At the very least think of it this way. Rashrad played a full NBA season. Starting with training camp, into pre-season and then the grueling 82 game regular season. He then went deep into the playoffs and was expected to play his best at the end of that long haul, which was done all while traveling all over the country.
That is an incredible physical demand done 9 months out of the year. I don't think anyone can know what it is like until you have done it yourself.
However, we are going to tell these guys that can't use a perfectly legal OTC substance that may help them with these physical demands because it might spike their T? I can use it, but Rashard Lewis can't?
Does this sound kind of crazy to anyone else?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No.
Level playing field. Simple as that. As in there is none if you let people muck with their body chemistry because they are too weak sauce to hold up to the punsihment.
Probably an accident in his case. Does not matter. He screwed up. Reassuring in a way. If nobody ever got caught then you would have to assume that the testing system was ineffective.
What's the amout of testing done now? I know a couple of years ago it was a joke - they tested players once in preseason. I think it was Rasheed Wallace who admitted that he smokes frequently during the season because nobody checks them. I have to try and dig up the article on this, because they were comparing testing in all the major sports, and the NBA came up as laughable.
Yeah, we can parse details for hours on this, but it's the same thing. It's like testing positive for a masking agent, not a steroid. Can't "technically" say you tested positive for steroids...
I understand what you're saying, but the point is that there's a threshold there -- it's clear and discernible. I know we're getting into different body chemistry and makeup here, but again, it's not like the average human body has this amount of testosterone, and the NBA says "you can't have anymore than what the average amount is". I'm sure there's a considerable buffer there, to take into consideration the naturally occurring variances that affect testosterone levels.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Well with PEDs the article said its 4 times a year, random. Not sure on recreational drugs except that people have been suspended in season before, so assume there is at least some testing while the season is going on.
