Unless Kanter is a guy that you can rely upon being a very good future weak side defender, I'd pick Knight or Kemba over him. To compete with the big boys, the Kings have more of a need for additional quickness in their lineup over power. The more you look at the playoffs, the more you see the impact of the point guards penetrating and breaking down the opponent's defense, or preventing the opposing point guard from doing the same. Connelly, despite his relative poor shooting made a big impact in the OKC series, doing quite a bit to contain Westbrook and to penetrate the OKC defense. Berrea tore apart the Lakers. And without Teague, Atlanta would have been swept by Chicago and Rose. (Rose speaks for himself). And of course when Rondo got injured in the Boston series, they were done. Either Knight or Walker could provide the quickness that the Kings have lacked for a decade.
Prospect watch 2011
- Thread starter asakkings
- Start date
I've probably seen Liggins play as much as any player in the draft over the last two years, simply because he's been on the same team as Cousins, Wall, Knight, and Jones. If Liggins is to make his mark in the NBA, it will have to be as a defensive specialist, at least in the immediate. Liggins is a frustrating player to watch. He has a lot of skills, and thats the frustrating part. He's an above average athlete, and at 6'6" plays taller than that thanks to his long arms. He has good lateral quickness which allows him to guard PG's, SG's, and SF's.
Its his inconsistency that will drive you nuts. He'll make a great pass for an assist that will get your attention, and then on the very next trip down the floor, he'll lose focus, and make a lazy pass thats easily picked off, and an easy basket for the competition. He'll have a man open on the wing, but will instead put the ball on the floor and drive right into the teeth of the other teams defense.
So my problem with Liggins isn't whether he's skilled or not, he is! Its how he uses his skills. If he can become more diciplined, and know his limitations, and then play within them, he could become a valuable player. Drafting him in the second round, wouldn't be much of a risk. But I'd rather gamble on someone like Parsons, who I think has more upside, and was willing to play whatever role his team asked him to.. But, Liggins is someone that could surprise down the road.
Its his inconsistency that will drive you nuts. He'll make a great pass for an assist that will get your attention, and then on the very next trip down the floor, he'll lose focus, and make a lazy pass thats easily picked off, and an easy basket for the competition. He'll have a man open on the wing, but will instead put the ball on the floor and drive right into the teeth of the other teams defense.
So my problem with Liggins isn't whether he's skilled or not, he is! Its how he uses his skills. If he can become more diciplined, and know his limitations, and then play within them, he could become a valuable player. Drafting him in the second round, wouldn't be much of a risk. But I'd rather gamble on someone like Parsons, who I think has more upside, and was willing to play whatever role his team asked him to.. But, Liggins is someone that could surprise down the road.
It would have been nice if the NCAA hadn't disqualified Kanter from playing for Kentucky this past season. It would have been a lot easier to answer some of the questions about him. Unfortunately, most of the questions, like the one you asked will remain unanswered until he suits up for an NBA team. What we do know however, is that for a big man, he's far from being a one trick pony. So to my mind, it comes down to whose the best player available.
Can we be honest with ourselves. Whether its Kanter, Walker, or Knight, there are unknowns about all of them. How effective will Walker be at defending the bigger point guards in the league. Or does he just get a pass while Kanter doesn't? Are Walker and Knight real point guards, or are they just wanna be's. Maybe, just maybe, if your, not meaning you, having trouble deciding between those players, There might be some equality involved. And if so, then who of that group fits the biggest need on the team.
I guess you could make an argument either way between Knight or Kanter. Kanter, because we don't know for sure if Dalembert will resign. So he would give us insurance in that area. However you could say the same thing about Knight, since we have no guarantee's that Thornton will resign. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Walker for our team. Don't get me wrong. I like Walker, and I had a great time watching him play all year. Plus, I think he would be fun to have on our team. But because of his size, I don't see him being a fit for need. So I would take either Kanter or Knight over him, all things being equal.
I do think that some folks are making some assumptions that may not be fair or realistic. One is that Cousins will never be a good defender. After just one year in the league, I hardly think thats fair. There are guys like Bogut and Kaman that became good defenders in their second or third years in the league. I'm not saying that either is Bill Russell, but they more than hold thier own. If Cousins can shed another 10 pounds and replace it with muscle, it would make him stronger, and quicker. He already has good length, so its just a matter of improving his technique.
I realize that there are no guarantees. I also realize that Kanter is a very skilled big man, and those kind of guys are rare. Paul Pierce wasn't drafted because he was a great defensive player in college. He was drafted because of his offensive skills. Ditto Kevin Durant. Ditto Ray Allen. I could go on. My point is, if someone has very special skills that others don't have, you don't pass on him because you don't think he'll be a good weakside shotblocker. I might add, that you can get weakside help from a lot of different places. It doesn't have to come from the PF position.. Just food for thought.
Can we be honest with ourselves. Whether its Kanter, Walker, or Knight, there are unknowns about all of them. How effective will Walker be at defending the bigger point guards in the league. Or does he just get a pass while Kanter doesn't? Are Walker and Knight real point guards, or are they just wanna be's. Maybe, just maybe, if your, not meaning you, having trouble deciding between those players, There might be some equality involved. And if so, then who of that group fits the biggest need on the team.
I guess you could make an argument either way between Knight or Kanter. Kanter, because we don't know for sure if Dalembert will resign. So he would give us insurance in that area. However you could say the same thing about Knight, since we have no guarantee's that Thornton will resign. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Walker for our team. Don't get me wrong. I like Walker, and I had a great time watching him play all year. Plus, I think he would be fun to have on our team. But because of his size, I don't see him being a fit for need. So I would take either Kanter or Knight over him, all things being equal.
I do think that some folks are making some assumptions that may not be fair or realistic. One is that Cousins will never be a good defender. After just one year in the league, I hardly think thats fair. There are guys like Bogut and Kaman that became good defenders in their second or third years in the league. I'm not saying that either is Bill Russell, but they more than hold thier own. If Cousins can shed another 10 pounds and replace it with muscle, it would make him stronger, and quicker. He already has good length, so its just a matter of improving his technique.
I realize that there are no guarantees. I also realize that Kanter is a very skilled big man, and those kind of guys are rare. Paul Pierce wasn't drafted because he was a great defensive player in college. He was drafted because of his offensive skills. Ditto Kevin Durant. Ditto Ray Allen. I could go on. My point is, if someone has very special skills that others don't have, you don't pass on him because you don't think he'll be a good weakside shotblocker. I might add, that you can get weakside help from a lot of different places. It doesn't have to come from the PF position.. Just food for thought.
I agree. If Kanter really is a head above Knight and Walker, pick Kanter. If it's too close to call, though, then need comes into play. Also, if Kanter is just the weaker twin of Cousins, I think that's a factor to consider. He becomes then almost a redundancy. His game wouldn't complement Cousins, just be a weaker substitute for it.
I'm not assuming Cousins will never become a good defender. He has a shot to get to that B level of defender in the NBA. If he works hard, I think he could be good to very good at defending opposing centers, but when it comes to helping out from penetration by threes, two, and 1s, I think he's going to be hampered. Just doesn't have that particular type of athleticism to be effective.
Like I said, in my opinion the biggest need by far on this team is quickness in the backcourt and the three. (Agree or disagree?) Therefore, all other things being equal I'd pick Knight or Walker over Kanter, unless the reports of his quickness are greatly underexaggerated. I don't need Knight or Walker to guard big guys. Just guard the little quick guys that neither Tyreke nor Thornton (in my opinion) guard. And when he's not guarding those quick little guys he can be getting in passing lanes and getting steals.
I'm not assuming Cousins will never become a good defender. He has a shot to get to that B level of defender in the NBA. If he works hard, I think he could be good to very good at defending opposing centers, but when it comes to helping out from penetration by threes, two, and 1s, I think he's going to be hampered. Just doesn't have that particular type of athleticism to be effective.
Like I said, in my opinion the biggest need by far on this team is quickness in the backcourt and the three. (Agree or disagree?) Therefore, all other things being equal I'd pick Knight or Walker over Kanter, unless the reports of his quickness are greatly underexaggerated. I don't need Knight or Walker to guard big guys. Just guard the little quick guys that neither Tyreke nor Thornton (in my opinion) guard. And when he's not guarding those quick little guys he can be getting in passing lanes and getting steals.
In the agree or disagree, I agree! Once again, I'm not a fan of Walker for this particular team, but I'm not going to ***** if we draft him. He's a tough little competitor, and there's no doubt he a winner. If he truely measures out at 6' in shoes, then I'm on board. but if he comes in at 5'9" or so, then I more reluctant to take him and would rather go with Hamilton or Leonard, where you would pick up some quickness at the SF position.
Hopefully here's a video of Kawhi Leonard working out at Joe Abunassar's impact basketball camp..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA1GYjD1yHo&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA1GYjD1yHo&feature=player_embedded
This draft is going to be fun. Not from a super talent standpoint, but from a "I have no idea who will go where" standpoint.
I mean, If the Kings get that lucky number one ... I dont think there is a clear cut player we take with that pick. You could make an argument for Williams, Irving, and even Kanter if he goes off in his workouts.
The way Im looking at it right now ... If we can somehow get an agreement with Dalembert and Thornton before the draft (verbal if contracts cant be signed) then I honestly think we should take Williams with our pick if he is there. He fills the biggest need. Can swing between PF and take minutes there as the fourth big, and can come in and compete for the starting SF gig. This would allow us to save our money (which could be a PR nightmare .. I almost feel like the Maloofs HAVE to spend money now even if its not in the best interest of the team) and use that extra cash around the deadline when maybe a team will look to unload something...
On the other hand, If we think Thornton will walk, which I find unlikely ... you obviously go with Irving. And then if we get vibes Dally will sign with a contender for the MLE, we can give Kanter a good look.
Lets just say I'm not as sold on Irving as I was earlier in the year. Maybe I'm taking into account team need more than I should .. but this team really doesnt need him. Not as much as we could use Williams or Kanter. Irving is just so ball dominant I dont see how he would fit with Evans/Thornton/Cousins ... now, you could make that same case with Williams, but at least he plays a position of need. Irving plays a position we have NO need for and wouldnt even look at in the draft if he wasnt as talented as he is... which is one reason why Im having a hard time getting excited over Walker or Knight for this team.
Dont get me wrong, I'll take Kyrie Irving and make it would if we think he is THAT good. Im just having some doubts that he IS that good.
I mean, If the Kings get that lucky number one ... I dont think there is a clear cut player we take with that pick. You could make an argument for Williams, Irving, and even Kanter if he goes off in his workouts.
The way Im looking at it right now ... If we can somehow get an agreement with Dalembert and Thornton before the draft (verbal if contracts cant be signed) then I honestly think we should take Williams with our pick if he is there. He fills the biggest need. Can swing between PF and take minutes there as the fourth big, and can come in and compete for the starting SF gig. This would allow us to save our money (which could be a PR nightmare .. I almost feel like the Maloofs HAVE to spend money now even if its not in the best interest of the team) and use that extra cash around the deadline when maybe a team will look to unload something...
On the other hand, If we think Thornton will walk, which I find unlikely ... you obviously go with Irving. And then if we get vibes Dally will sign with a contender for the MLE, we can give Kanter a good look.
Lets just say I'm not as sold on Irving as I was earlier in the year. Maybe I'm taking into account team need more than I should .. but this team really doesnt need him. Not as much as we could use Williams or Kanter. Irving is just so ball dominant I dont see how he would fit with Evans/Thornton/Cousins ... now, you could make that same case with Williams, but at least he plays a position of need. Irving plays a position we have NO need for and wouldnt even look at in the draft if he wasnt as talented as he is... which is one reason why Im having a hard time getting excited over Walker or Knight for this team.
Dont get me wrong, I'll take Kyrie Irving and make it would if we think he is THAT good. Im just having some doubts that he IS that good.
Keep in mind that unless the rules are changed out from under us by the new CBA, we control our own fate as regards Thornton. He's a restricted free agent, so we have the right to match any offer made to him for simply tendering him a qualifying offer. And that QO is tiny, only a hint over $1M, so it's a no-brainer. And we cant be outbid for his services. We could decide "he's not worth that offer", but with this huge stash of money under us, I don't see that as likely unless the front office actually doesn't like him. Which I don't believe to be the case. I think it's safe to assume Thornton will be here next year.
Yeah, I agree with you. His qualifing offer is so low that its not even worth talking about. Dalembert is another thing altogther. His qualifying offer is around 20 mil. Thats a chunk of change. So I'm inclined to agree that Thornton's return is more of a slam dunk than Dalemberts. Which is why I'm leaning toward taking Kanter if he's there when we pick. A verbal agreement from Dalembert would be nice. Under the current rules of the CBA, can Dalembert be signed to an extension between now and june 30th? I've always been a little shakey on what you can and can not do in this time period. I guess I need to have a conversation with Mr. Coon...
I know that everone thinks that resigning Dalembert is almost a given. But if the new CBA comes in with a hard cap of 45 mil, it could change everything. If that were to happen, it would put the Kings in an entirely different situation. Lets assume that the Kings are sitting at 26 mil total salaries going into freeagency. Lets say we sign Thornton to four years starting at 6 mil. Just a guess on my part. Could be less, could be a little more. That would take us to 32 mil. So what happens if Dalembert wants a four year deal starting 9 or 10 mil. Or what if another team offers him a four year deal starting at 8.5 mil. Lets say that team is close to being a contender. Suddenly were up to 41 or 42 mil in salaries, and were only left with 3 or 4 mill left to spend on freeagents.
At that point, I think the Kings would have to give some serious thought to passing on Dalembert. This is all hypothetical of course. I don't think the league will get its 45 mil hard cap. Thats probably just a bargining chip figure anyway. But it is possible that the new CBA will affect how we look at resigning our own freeagents. Don't misunderstand. I'm all for resigning Dalembert, but I don't think its a slam dunk.
At that point, I think the Kings would have to give some serious thought to passing on Dalembert. This is all hypothetical of course. I don't think the league will get its 45 mil hard cap. Thats probably just a bargining chip figure anyway. But it is possible that the new CBA will affect how we look at resigning our own freeagents. Don't misunderstand. I'm all for resigning Dalembert, but I don't think its a slam dunk.
I am going to guess that the new CBA in some aspects will be gradually implemented. It would be a total screw job if the Kings' position was nullified by an abrupt change in the cap rules. We did everything right (or we got cheap in defference to the Maloof haters). In any case, if the rules were as they used to be, we did it properly. Teams planned ahead and managed their money believing in one thing. I don't know if past rule changes of such importance were slowly implemented but I would hope the new CBA would be a gradual change and we wouldn't be hurt badly simply for doing things right.
My fingers are crossed as we are on the cusp of having a very good team and I would hate to be blind sided and lose what we were shooting for.
My fingers are crossed as we are on the cusp of having a very good team and I would hate to be blind sided and lose what we were shooting for.
But if there was a 45M hard cap which went into effect next season, teams would have to cut players left and right to get under the cap. Also, who out there would be willing to offer that kind of money to Dally under those circumstances? Who else could?
With a 45M hard cap, we'd be one of a handful of team that could actually add players, while most will be cutting them. There would be far less money available, and more players looking for work, driving down the amount we'd have to offer.
With a 45M hard cap, we'd be one of a handful of team that could actually add players, while most will be cutting them. There would be far less money available, and more players looking for work, driving down the amount we'd have to offer.
Yep. I think it's important to consider the overall context, not just our own cap situation. We wouldn't be the only team facing tough choices with a hard cap. Further, we'd be in a better position to deal with any such situation given our limited salary liabilities. Either way, we should be in a good spot moving forward.
I'm more impressed by Biyombo at this point than I was by Sene at about the same time prior to the draft. With Sene you could see that his potential was tied to his size and wingspan, not the manner in which he played. He looked stiff and mechanical when he tried to do anything other than dunk or run the floor. I've seen Biyombo go for shotblocks out of his area where he gets off the ground so quickly that he seems to accelerate in the air. That got my attention. There's always a bust factor with guys who are relatively unskilled and early in their development, but he's got athletic tools that are extremely rare.
The Ben Wallace comparison points to the type of player he could be, but I always thought Wallace was as effective as he was primarily because of his basketball IQ. He's one of the smartest defenders I've ever seen. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from Biyombo. His countryman Serge Ibaka is a more realistic comparison. Prior to the draft Ibaka put up the following averages in Spain:
7.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 1 block in 16 minutes per game
And then similar numbers his first year in the NBA:
6.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks in 18.1 minutes per game
(this year he upped that to 9.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, and 2.4 blocks in 27 minutes per game)
In the same league this year (ACB in Spain) Biyombo averaged:
6.4 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks in 17 minutes per game
I don't think he's a perfect fit for us with Whiteside and presumably Dalembert already on the roster, but I think his shotblocking skills are legit and I expect him to stick in the league for a long time for that reason alone. He could be a cheaper replacement for Dalembert if he gets a big offer from the Knicks or some other team -- though obviously he wouldn't step in and give us the some production right away.
Oops, I was actually replying to this post in the other thread. Too many windows open at once!
The Ben Wallace comparison points to the type of player he could be, but I always thought Wallace was as effective as he was primarily because of his basketball IQ. He's one of the smartest defenders I've ever seen. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from Biyombo. His countryman Serge Ibaka is a more realistic comparison. Prior to the draft Ibaka put up the following averages in Spain:
7.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 1 block in 16 minutes per game
And then similar numbers his first year in the NBA:
6.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks in 18.1 minutes per game
(this year he upped that to 9.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, and 2.4 blocks in 27 minutes per game)
In the same league this year (ACB in Spain) Biyombo averaged:
6.4 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks in 17 minutes per game
I don't think he's a perfect fit for us with Whiteside and presumably Dalembert already on the roster, but I think his shotblocking skills are legit and I expect him to stick in the league for a long time for that reason alone. He could be a cheaper replacement for Dalembert if he gets a big offer from the Knicks or some other team -- though obviously he wouldn't step in and give us the some production right away.
Oops, I was actually replying to this post in the other thread. Too many windows open at once!
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I'm more impressed by Biyombo at this point than I was by Sene at about the same time prior to the draft. With Sene you could see that his potential was tied to his size and wingspan, not the manner in which he played. He looked stiff and mechanical when he tried to do anything other than dunk or run the floor. I've seen Biyombo go for shotblocks out of his area where he gets off the ground so quickly that he seems to accelerate in the air. That got my attention. There's always a bust factor with guys who are relatively unskilled and early in their development, but he's got athletic tools that are extremely rare.
The Ben Wallace comparison points to the type of player he could be, but I always thought Wallace was as effective as he was primarily because of his basketball IQ. He's one of the smartest defenders I've ever seen. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from Biyombo. His countryman Serge Ibaka is a more realistic comparison. Prior to the draft Ibaka put up the following averages in Spain:
7.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 1 block in 16 minutes per game
And then similar numbers his first year in the NBA:
6.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks in 18.1 minutes per game
(this year he upped that to 9.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, and 2.4 blocks in 27 minutes per game)
In the same league this year (ACB in Spain) Biyombo averaged:
6.4 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks in 17 minutes per game
I don't think he's a perfect fit for us with Whiteside and presumably Dalembert already on the roster, but I think his shotblocking skills are legit and I expect him to stick in the league for a long time for that reason alone. He could be a cheaper replacement for Dalembert if he gets a big offer from the Knicks or some other team -- though obviously he wouldn't step in and give us the some production right away.
Oops, I was actually replying to this post in the other thread. Too many windows open at once!
The Ben Wallace comparison points to the type of player he could be, but I always thought Wallace was as effective as he was primarily because of his basketball IQ. He's one of the smartest defenders I've ever seen. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from Biyombo. His countryman Serge Ibaka is a more realistic comparison. Prior to the draft Ibaka put up the following averages in Spain:
7.1 points, 4.5 rebounds, and 1 block in 16 minutes per game
And then similar numbers his first year in the NBA:
6.3 points, 5.4 rebounds and 1.3 blocks in 18.1 minutes per game
(this year he upped that to 9.9 points, 7.6 rebounds, and 2.4 blocks in 27 minutes per game)
In the same league this year (ACB in Spain) Biyombo averaged:
6.4 points, 5.1 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks in 17 minutes per game
I don't think he's a perfect fit for us with Whiteside and presumably Dalembert already on the roster, but I think his shotblocking skills are legit and I expect him to stick in the league for a long time for that reason alone. He could be a cheaper replacement for Dalembert if he gets a big offer from the Knicks or some other team -- though obviously he wouldn't step in and give us the some production right away.
Oops, I was actually replying to this post in the other thread. Too many windows open at once!
And please, I don't want anyone telling me that he has this great record in his league. Just where was all the hoopla before he played in that all star game. No one, other than International league followers even knew who he was. And please, don't bother with youtube videos. I could make myself look good in a youtube video. I'm not saying he won't turn out to be a good player in the league. I'd just rather take a flier on a more known commodity
I don't think it's fair to say Biyombo was unknown before the Nike Hoop Summit. Most of us don't watch international basketball regularly, not enough to know who the up and coming players are anyway unless someone else clues us in. The triple-double game got his name splashed all over the place, but that doesn't mean scouts and GMs weren't aware of him before that. You have to be pretty highly reputed in your age group to even get invited to that game.
I agree that it's easy to get a skewed impression from youtube highlight videos, I never put much stock in those, but did you watch the Hoop Summit game? I thought his performance in that game was very impressive. And looking back historically at other NBA players who excelled in that game he's in pretty good company. It's not my job to find out if his performance was for real or not, but as a basketball fan I'm intrigued by what he showed there.
As for Sene, I don't know any of the details of why Sene washed out of the league. His team did change it's GM, head coach, and city of residence shortly after he was drafted. During that time he played about as much as Whiteside played for us last season, basically not at all. The Sonics/Thunder were looking for a starting C during that time not a defensive role player so perhaps their expectations were unrealistic. Maybe he had minor injuries keeping him off the floor too. Maybe there were language issues. There's all sorts of possible causes. He played in a French League in the 09-10 season and did pretty well over there so it's not like he can't play basketball at a high level.
But anyway, more to the point I think every prospect and the situation they end up in is unique. It sounds to me like you're writing off Biyombo because he reminds you of Sene. And even though there are similarities, that doesn't mean Biyombo's fate will be the same. That one game alone is not enough to make him a top 10 pick, but he does have a track record in a well-respected international league which compares favorably to one of this years breakout stars in the NBA. And we have a whole month of workouts left before anyone has to make up their mind. I know I'm not going to commit to a bigboard list until I see how the next four weeks play out.
I agree that it's easy to get a skewed impression from youtube highlight videos, I never put much stock in those, but did you watch the Hoop Summit game? I thought his performance in that game was very impressive. And looking back historically at other NBA players who excelled in that game he's in pretty good company. It's not my job to find out if his performance was for real or not, but as a basketball fan I'm intrigued by what he showed there.
As for Sene, I don't know any of the details of why Sene washed out of the league. His team did change it's GM, head coach, and city of residence shortly after he was drafted. During that time he played about as much as Whiteside played for us last season, basically not at all. The Sonics/Thunder were looking for a starting C during that time not a defensive role player so perhaps their expectations were unrealistic. Maybe he had minor injuries keeping him off the floor too. Maybe there were language issues. There's all sorts of possible causes. He played in a French League in the 09-10 season and did pretty well over there so it's not like he can't play basketball at a high level.
But anyway, more to the point I think every prospect and the situation they end up in is unique. It sounds to me like you're writing off Biyombo because he reminds you of Sene. And even though there are similarities, that doesn't mean Biyombo's fate will be the same. That one game alone is not enough to make him a top 10 pick, but he does have a track record in a well-respected international league which compares favorably to one of this years breakout stars in the NBA. And we have a whole month of workouts left before anyone has to make up their mind. I know I'm not going to commit to a bigboard list until I see how the next four weeks play out.
Read somewhere that scouts dont think Biyombo is Sene like at all. More fluid, apt to learn the game. Still a risky pick with a high bust potential though.
I think I'm on the trade down and nab Faried + bonus wagon myself. I feel like he can be a kind of "Birdman" type of player for us. Maybe only giving us 16mpg or so, but an extremely high energy, high production 16mpg.
The Yahoo sports mock has us nabbing Biyombo, and Kanter going after him.
This draft isnt exactly top heavy, but there should be a lot of good prospects at 7. And with GP and friends in charge, we'll probably get a good player. Unless some Doubyesque hotshot cons us again
.....And, just did a read up on Leonard. This guy could be a great pick up too! Great rebounder for his position, great defender, bully game. Apparently improving in the skills department. He could make our team even brusier! And I'm down with that.
I think I'm on the trade down and nab Faried + bonus wagon myself. I feel like he can be a kind of "Birdman" type of player for us. Maybe only giving us 16mpg or so, but an extremely high energy, high production 16mpg.
The Yahoo sports mock has us nabbing Biyombo, and Kanter going after him.
This draft isnt exactly top heavy, but there should be a lot of good prospects at 7. And with GP and friends in charge, we'll probably get a good player. Unless some Doubyesque hotshot cons us again
.....And, just did a read up on Leonard. This guy could be a great pick up too! Great rebounder for his position, great defender, bully game. Apparently improving in the skills department. He could make our team even brusier! And I'm down with that.
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Sorry Vlade, but none of the international players had officially put their name in the draft, but we've heard plenty about them over the past year of so. I'm not going to start listing them, because you know the players I'm talking about. I had never even heard of Biyombo until the hoop summit game. There wasn't even speculation about him on any of the draft fourms. All of sudden, he's superman!
Look, if Petrie works him out and loves the guy, then fine. I'm more than willing to go along for the ride. But I'm certainly not going to endorse him right now, on what little I know of him, which is nothing! We had some dude named Williams that rebounded and blocked shots. Remember him. He's was a terrific athlete. Just where is he now? Gone like the wind, because he couldn't grasp the rest of the game, and was a liability on the offensive side of the ball. I'm not saying thats true of Biyombo, but I don't know, and neither do you, nor does anyone else on this fourm. Hopefully, if we draft him, Petrie knows.
Look, if Petrie works him out and loves the guy, then fine. I'm more than willing to go along for the ride. But I'm certainly not going to endorse him right now, on what little I know of him, which is nothing! We had some dude named Williams that rebounded and blocked shots. Remember him. He's was a terrific athlete. Just where is he now? Gone like the wind, because he couldn't grasp the rest of the game, and was a liability on the offensive side of the ball. I'm not saying thats true of Biyombo, but I don't know, and neither do you, nor does anyone else on this fourm. Hopefully, if we draft him, Petrie knows.
Hitting the stretch run, I'm now focusing on more of the lottery prospects; given that we might be a PF/C with this pick, here are the options...
Start with the Morris twins. Marcus Morris has been lauded for that inside-outside offense in college, but truth of the matter is, I don't think he'll stand out in any one area in the league. He's really polished, proven and NBA ready, and is a decent college scorer and rebounder, but nothing more than that. The problem is I think that offense will really suffer at the NBA level--I actually do question his shooting ability, given his free throw body of work, and his offensive construct is mechanical. Certainly being NBA ready will give him some staying power here, but I can't see his offense being more than average, at best. Morris's passing/ballhandling is also at ordinary to poor levels. He also attempts to play defense, but he's just very foul prone in doing so--and for a big man, he really struggles to make defensive plays despite trying. So I'm seeing a 6'9" very meh offensive player with some rebounding but limitations elsewhere, particularly defensively; given how polished he is and his mechanical offense, I also think he might have peaked...into something very ordinary. I really think he can be a draft bust, or can be a fall down steeply during draft day.
The other brother, Markieff, shares similar tendencies to Marcus--but to me, he's the better Morris prospect, although both of them IMO are overrated by the media. Markieff is not as NBA ready as his brother, but still quite ready nonetheless, and he displays good abilities on the defensive side of the ball. He's a lottery level rebounder and is decent enough at making defensive plays (but not great) and he does attempt to go after everything, but he's very foul prone in doing so. I actually think Markieff has slightly better offensive potential than Marcus--he has better shooting touch, his offensive game is less mechanical and his passing/ballhandling is better, but they're still all very meh or poor compared to other draftees. At the end of the day he was a bad offensive player in college, and he'll probably be the same way at the league. At 6'10" he can be a rebounding PF who's a bit foul prone but can D up decently (but not excellently), but will be an offensive liability. Can be a bust especially if he's drafted in the lottery. Robin Lopez, another twin, was disappointing this year...Markieff is in that same vein.
I've touched on Jan Vesely before and scouts largely rave about his freakish athleticism which has catapulted him to the lottery--but really, while athleticism is a key translator to league success, you also need skills on top of that. I personally think that Vesely doesn't have enough of those skills, and looking at his season-wide trends ever since 2007, we have tons of information to confirm that. That being said, Vesely does have offensive upside for the league--he can take it to the hole and does attempt to shoot from deep--and he's relatively NBA-ready with his experience, but he's just such a bad offensive player and I think his shooting is very poor, even though his passing ability is okay for a guy standing 6'11". Defensively, he's an absolute hack--he attempts to play it but is very meh in making plays, and to make matters worse he never rebounds the ball, a disgrace for his height. So it's only the skeleton of a versatile 6'11" player with athleticism, range, slashing ability and passing, but none of the three are even good enough at this stage: the foul-prone ineffective defense and zero rebounding are the real killers here. He's just very overrated and talent-wise, I even thought he was a near-undrafted type guy in terms of sheer skills. Can be a real bust if drafted in the lotto.
We've touched on Kawhi Leonard many times already, and here's a slight update: he's a peaked NBA player, as he's both NBA ready and lacks significant offensive upside in the league, largely because his offensive construct is just incredibly mechanical. But he's peaked into a serviceable role: as a glue offensive player, reasonable defender and manic rebounder at 6'7", sort of like current day Shawn Marion. He's actually an OK shooter and actually a good passer/ballhandler for a 6'7" PF, but considering he was just an average offensive player in college, that and the mechanical construct really lessens the intrigue. Leonard is also a certified mid-lotto level rebounder, and with his NBA-readiness this should hold up; he's also reasonable at making defensive plays and is smart about it, as he doesn't pick up useless fouls in doing so. His offensive upside is limited but besides that he has no severe flaws, and his intangibles are very strong; he should find a role in this league as a Shawn Marion type player.
Donatas Motiejunas like Vesely presents a skeleton of a good offensive player: his offensive construct is relatively nondescript but he's a good shooter for a 7-footer, and he's NBA ready as he's proven a lot in international competition. But for now I think he's a bad offensive player and a very poor passer, and defensively he tries but is way overmatched--he struggles to make defensive plays and yet still is foul prone. He's also a poor rebounder for his size. So while NBA-ready, only the shooting-based offense has potential, as his foul-prone defense, poor passing/rebounding might remain constants to his game. The 7'0" shooter is nothing new, and that might not be enough. He does have bust potential at the lotto stages.
Start with the Morris twins. Marcus Morris has been lauded for that inside-outside offense in college, but truth of the matter is, I don't think he'll stand out in any one area in the league. He's really polished, proven and NBA ready, and is a decent college scorer and rebounder, but nothing more than that. The problem is I think that offense will really suffer at the NBA level--I actually do question his shooting ability, given his free throw body of work, and his offensive construct is mechanical. Certainly being NBA ready will give him some staying power here, but I can't see his offense being more than average, at best. Morris's passing/ballhandling is also at ordinary to poor levels. He also attempts to play defense, but he's just very foul prone in doing so--and for a big man, he really struggles to make defensive plays despite trying. So I'm seeing a 6'9" very meh offensive player with some rebounding but limitations elsewhere, particularly defensively; given how polished he is and his mechanical offense, I also think he might have peaked...into something very ordinary. I really think he can be a draft bust, or can be a fall down steeply during draft day.
The other brother, Markieff, shares similar tendencies to Marcus--but to me, he's the better Morris prospect, although both of them IMO are overrated by the media. Markieff is not as NBA ready as his brother, but still quite ready nonetheless, and he displays good abilities on the defensive side of the ball. He's a lottery level rebounder and is decent enough at making defensive plays (but not great) and he does attempt to go after everything, but he's very foul prone in doing so. I actually think Markieff has slightly better offensive potential than Marcus--he has better shooting touch, his offensive game is less mechanical and his passing/ballhandling is better, but they're still all very meh or poor compared to other draftees. At the end of the day he was a bad offensive player in college, and he'll probably be the same way at the league. At 6'10" he can be a rebounding PF who's a bit foul prone but can D up decently (but not excellently), but will be an offensive liability. Can be a bust especially if he's drafted in the lottery. Robin Lopez, another twin, was disappointing this year...Markieff is in that same vein.
I've touched on Jan Vesely before and scouts largely rave about his freakish athleticism which has catapulted him to the lottery--but really, while athleticism is a key translator to league success, you also need skills on top of that. I personally think that Vesely doesn't have enough of those skills, and looking at his season-wide trends ever since 2007, we have tons of information to confirm that. That being said, Vesely does have offensive upside for the league--he can take it to the hole and does attempt to shoot from deep--and he's relatively NBA-ready with his experience, but he's just such a bad offensive player and I think his shooting is very poor, even though his passing ability is okay for a guy standing 6'11". Defensively, he's an absolute hack--he attempts to play it but is very meh in making plays, and to make matters worse he never rebounds the ball, a disgrace for his height. So it's only the skeleton of a versatile 6'11" player with athleticism, range, slashing ability and passing, but none of the three are even good enough at this stage: the foul-prone ineffective defense and zero rebounding are the real killers here. He's just very overrated and talent-wise, I even thought he was a near-undrafted type guy in terms of sheer skills. Can be a real bust if drafted in the lotto.
We've touched on Kawhi Leonard many times already, and here's a slight update: he's a peaked NBA player, as he's both NBA ready and lacks significant offensive upside in the league, largely because his offensive construct is just incredibly mechanical. But he's peaked into a serviceable role: as a glue offensive player, reasonable defender and manic rebounder at 6'7", sort of like current day Shawn Marion. He's actually an OK shooter and actually a good passer/ballhandler for a 6'7" PF, but considering he was just an average offensive player in college, that and the mechanical construct really lessens the intrigue. Leonard is also a certified mid-lotto level rebounder, and with his NBA-readiness this should hold up; he's also reasonable at making defensive plays and is smart about it, as he doesn't pick up useless fouls in doing so. His offensive upside is limited but besides that he has no severe flaws, and his intangibles are very strong; he should find a role in this league as a Shawn Marion type player.
Donatas Motiejunas like Vesely presents a skeleton of a good offensive player: his offensive construct is relatively nondescript but he's a good shooter for a 7-footer, and he's NBA ready as he's proven a lot in international competition. But for now I think he's a bad offensive player and a very poor passer, and defensively he tries but is way overmatched--he struggles to make defensive plays and yet still is foul prone. He's also a poor rebounder for his size. So while NBA-ready, only the shooting-based offense has potential, as his foul-prone defense, poor passing/rebounding might remain constants to his game. The 7'0" shooter is nothing new, and that might not be enough. He does have bust potential at the lotto stages.
Absolutely. I think Tyreke and Thornton are both hybrids. They aren't "pure" point or "pure" shooting guard. Knight fall into the same category. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Also, the more I think about this team, especially Tyreke and Cousins, the less weight I give to "compatibility". I just want the BPA, compatible be damned. We don't even know if either Tyreke or Cousins could be a bust down the line, so just get BPA and let it sort itself out.
Also, the more I think about this team, especially Tyreke and Cousins, the less weight I give to "compatibility". I just want the BPA, compatible be damned. We don't even know if either Tyreke or Cousins could be a bust down the line, so just get BPA and let it sort itself out.