Props to Peja

[Raci]

Don't forget that he was matched up against one of the best SF's in the league...

Here are some important stats of the two other Kings playoff heroes:

Bibby FG% 32.6 Bobby FG% 27... sad.

I mean you can talk about 4th quarter as much as you want, but if those other lads showed up in any of the quarters we wouldn't be talking about 4th quarters performances at all...

Yes,that is truth.Now i dont see than why some people attack all the time Peja when some other players play much worse than he is.

 

[ParniValjak]

Please. He still bricked the majority of his fourth quarter shots to pull yet another disappearing act out of his hat. I liked the aggressive attacks to the basket when the shot wasn't falling, but he hardly made up for his failings of the past with one 3-pointer that didn't even win the game for us.

Bibby also was a non-factor in the 4th. Their "disappearence act" was not then taking it easy. They played their guts out but they just ran out of gas. When their legs are giving away they aren't going to make many shots.

There is a difference between disappearing because you are not trying and trying your guts out but you are tired and as a result the shot is not falling.

Anyone who accuses Peja of not giving it his all in the fourth has some serious issues.

 

[ParniValjak]

OK, let me rephrase: his SHOT disappeared, because his CONFIDENCE disappeared, just like it always does come Quarter #4 of a meaningful game. He showed a minor improvement by at least getting to the line when the shot wasn't dropping, but where was the smooth silky Peja that could've made a 3 with his eyes closed that we were seeing in the first 3 quarters? He got nervous.

I don't give props to losing efforts, especially when it's the same thing year after year. Enough is enough, get rid of him now because he will never get any better than he is right now. The trial period is OVER.

NO he got tired. Its as simple as that.

 

[Zyphen]

Being tired is not an excuse. That's the lamest front to put up as a professional athlete and I'm glad none try to use it as a justification (that I'm aware of). No one else on the Kings has the distinction of being "tired" in the 4th in practically every playoff game of his career and most regular season games, for that matter. If Bibby wanted to, he can make the case of being much more tired than Peja, having been hounded by opposing defenses and burdened upon in the offense ever since the Webber trade. Not an excuse. That's the time to really show if he's superstar material. Obviously, they both are lacking.

But 4th quarter disappearances? Please. There's really no comparison. One guy has to prove he can show up, the other's already proved it many times before.

This tired thing is just ridiculously funny. Everyone's tired by the 4th. Plenty of guys play starter minutes (that's why they're called starters) but the ones who show up at the end, are deservedly the stars. Is Ray Allen tired? Is Mike Bibby tired? Hell yeah.

If there's something wrong with Peja's conditioning, it's up to him to work on it. It's not like he has year round commitments like Yao Ming (who btw, gets tired very easily). On a side note, Yao scored 15 of his 30 points the other night in the 4th quarter. That's the difference. How you deal with fatigue and pressure makes the man.

The most I can say about Peja is that he actually tried this time. It was still a crappy 4th quarter performance. But at least he didn't disappear entirely. Where was that competitive fire in the previous games?

 

[Bad Boy Bo]

Pedja 40 mins 22 ppg, 47% FG, 5.2 rebs, .8 stls, 1.4 ast
Rashard 39 mins 16.4 ppg 40% FG 4.4 rebs .2 stls, 2.2 ast

Exactly, he did his job on Rashard. And I don't care if Peja takes 100 shots in teh 4th and miss them all, atleast they shows he's trying. And if he keeps it up, at some point he will be extremely confident and become deadly. I still see a lot of potential in him. We saw in game 5 a glimpse of that. He was trying to put the ball on the floor and attacking the rim. And let's say you're the coach of an opposing team, you put your best on ball defender on whom? Most likely Peja. He has his work cut out for, and averaging the most minutes of any King. I say he's has yet to become the star he's destined to be, and I think next year, if he's still on the Kings roster, it will be an opportuned time.

 

[Raci]

This tired thing is just ridiculously funny. Everyone's tired by the 4th. Plenty of guys play starter minutes (that's why they're called starters) but the ones who show up at the end, are deservedly the stars. Is Ray Allen tired? Is Mike Bibby tired? Hell yeah.

The most I can say about Peja is that he actually tried this time. It was still a crappy 4th quarter performance. But at least he didn't disappear entirely. Where was that competitive fire in the previous games?

Wel maybe he dont use chemicals like 95 % of nba players.

Bibby tired more than Peja?! he play less,dont play defence and in offence are bith close,but dont forget that Peja is on the movement all the time without ball.
Who knows what cocktail Alan drink.

 

[KingCookie]

NO he got tired. Its as simple as that.

Yes, he got tired. He was sucking wind like crazy 3 minutes into the quarter.

So what? That's my point. It's always something when it comes down to the nitty-gritty for Peja. He was lights out in the first 3 quarters, and then all of a sudden he can't hit a thing. He was tired, but he was also rushing his shot and tensing up. I don't care what the excuse is, you can't have a different one every year.

 

[AleksandarN]

Yes, he got tired. He was sucking wind like crazy 3 minutes into the quarter.

So what? That's my point. It's always something when it comes down to the nitty-gritty for Peja. He was lights out in the first 3 quarters, and then all of a sudden he can't hit a thing. He was tired, but he was also rushing his shot and tensing up. I don't care what the excuse is, you can't have a different one every year.

See with Pedja he relies on cutting and running to free himself and it get harder for him as game goes on. Pedja is not a player who can play one on one. He does not have athletism to create his own shot as some players do. He relies on off the ball movement. I think he gets lazy when he is tired and thus you see him not being aggressive because he does not push himself like AI does in Philly. That I think is totally unacceptible on his part.

 

[kennadog]

My opinion is that we didn’t lose because of failed shotmaking in the 4th, whoever you want to blame that on. We scored 118 points!! But we let the Sonics score 122. Lack of rebounding and defense lost the Kings the game and this series.

As to the issue of tiredness, I’m just asking about this, because I was thinking why might Bibby and Peja (King’s top scorers) be more tired at the end of the game than Allen and Lewis (Sonic’s top scorers) after playing a similar number of minutes? Does anybody think that it might have to do with what a player is doing during those minutes?

Allen and Lewis were the Sonics top 2 scorers in game 5. However, they had 5 other teammates score in double figures, so their point total ended up being 44% of the team’s total output.

Bibby and Peja only had 2 other teammates score in double figures, so their poin total ended up being 63% of the team’s total output.

Allen and Lewis’s got 9 of their team’s 43 rebounds – 21%. Peja and Bibby got 7 of their team’s 25 rebounds – 28% (ugh).

Allen and Lewis’s got 10 of their team’s 25 assists – 40%. Peja and Bibby got 14 of their team’s 31 assists – 45%.

Allen and Lewis’s got 2 of their team’s 4 steals – 50%. Peja and Bibby got 5 of their team’s 8 steals – 63%.

Regardless of minutes played, doesn’t it look like Peja and Bibby did more “work” for their team than their top 2 scorers? Would that make them more tired?

 

[Londonking]

Peja may not be a playmaker or a leader of the team. However, i would argue that he is a (usually) an effective shot taker, be it 3 pointer or two. I would have thought the stats would show he is the best of the Kings from the free throw line.
I understand the frustration of seeing him make the most of his talent at crunchtime in the play-offs and i dont have an answer to that, but i do think he is a piece of the team jigsaw i would like to see stay,especially if trades this summer bring a stronger defensive element to the Kings and he is able to improve his own defensive contribution in that unit.

 

[KingCookie]

Of course rebounding and lack of defense is what lost us the game. I am well aware of this.

But I'm not gonna sit here and pat a guy on the back who shot 2 for 16 in the 4th quarters of this series because he tried in the first three quarters!! If this isn't an issue to you, please tell me why!! History shows this is something to worry about.

I refuse to sit by and wait another year for this guy to blossom into something more, because it's obvious that he has peaked. We don't need to trade necessarily trade him, but he is not and never will be the leader and motivator that this team so desperately needs. He COULD be, but he refuses to elevate himself to that level by making the commitment and having the self confidence, and I'm not going to cross my fingers for that to change anytime soon.

 

[bozzwell]

Yes, he got tired. He was sucking wind like crazy 3 minutes into the quarter.

So what? That's my point. It's always something when it comes down to the nitty-gritty for Peja. He was lights out in the first 3 quarters, and then all of a sudden he can't hit a thing. He was tired, but he was also rushing his shot and tensing up. I don't care what the excuse is, you can't have a different one every year.

I don't think that anyone can seriously deny that Pedja quite simply does not perform or performance drop off is substensive in PO's and espeically 4th quarter. The point is that while he did not set the world alight with his 4th quarter in Game 5 at least he showed us a different Pedja. He was active and once long shots started clanging he tried different things.

It doesn't really matter whether there is an excuse or not, it is reasonable to say that his results have not matched his talent (or hype if he is not that good to begin with) with notable exception of first 3/4 of last season (even there he seems to be 3/4's guy ). The only relevant questions that I see in relation to Pedja at this time are:
1. Do you wait on him to match his performances with his talent/hype and how long do you wait (Brick)?
2. Do you accept him for what he is and work around his limitations?

Everything else is just noise.

First question is really, really easy: Time is running out whichever way you look at it (his contract expires after next season). This summer he will return to his normal routine and long before preseason he will play for Serbia in European Championships in front of scouts from every single NBA team, including the Kings.

This will provide an early guideline to Pedja's contract year. If he reports back to the camp in better shape and frame of mind then he did last year and having committed to improving his game in the off season, you can argue that he will buy some time _and_ that his trade value will improve (relative to the last season).

Then, Kings can be very flexible and he will be tradable in the offseason, midseason or sign-and-trade in 2006 TDOS. Even if he is re-signed by the Kings and then proceeds to have another down year, after his baseline year (season after next) he will be only 29 years old with contract that expires before he is 33 (according to rumours about contract lenght in the new CBA). If I understand CBA correctly, one advantage of sign-and-trade or re-signing him but shopping him later is that we would be able to offer him market value irrespective of whether we're over or under cap. Right now his contract is just over 7 mil and that won't get us our next franchise player. I seruously doubt that we would get any serious help other then cap relief if we package him with KT's contract. In a nutshell, for all his limitations Pedja is a "very, very fine" asset for the Kings right now.

As for second question: That all depends on our ability to bring other pieces into equation. Some fans will never be able to accept him performing according to his current/past pattern. Hey, even his teammates may (start to) resent him.

Basically, I don't see any value in this circular argument where Pedja's limitations are repeated endlessly followed by a stream of seizeless excuses.

 

[kennadog]

But I'm not gonna sit here and pat a guy on the back who shot 2 for 16 in the 4th quarters of this series because he tried in the first three quarters!! If this isn't an issue to you, please tell me why!! History shows this is something to worry about.

He COULD be, but he refuses to elevate himself to that level by making the commitment and having the self confidence, and I'm not going to cross my fingers for that to change anytime soon.

I'm not aking anybody to pat him on the back. Doesn't mean others can't, if that's what they feel. I personally felt like he and Bibby played a very good game 5, but the "team" couldn't win. I don't think it's an accident that our 3 best players in that game are the 3 that have worked together for a couple of years.

As to "he could be, but refuses to" statement, that is opinion, not fact. Would you consider the concept maybe he won't because he can't, it just may never be in his makeup no matter how much we want it? How would you view Peja if you eliminated that as a possibility? Would you trade him or keep him (dependent upon cost and other players of course)?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I would really like to know.

 

[VF21]

It seems every off-season focuses on one drama or another, one mercurial player more than anyone else...

Last year, we had both Webber and Peja to argue about, to theorize upon, etc.

This year, the focus is - rightly or wrongly, for better or worse - about Peja. Some people are going to praise him, others are going to criticize him. A lot of us are going to be somewhere in the middle - and that's just the way it's going to be for him and the fans.

Who created the controversy? IMHO Peja did - knowingly or not - when he went to the media with his announcement that he wanted to be traded.

Kings fans have very long memories and they aren't going to forget that slap on the face and it WAS a slap on the face, whether he realized or meant it to be.

At least around here we're discussing it civilly. I've seen a couple of posts elsewhere that aren't being so civil.

There's always going to be disagreement about Peja, just as there was disagreement about Webber. It's part of the territory. At least here we do it without resorting to name calling, flame fests, etc. If the arguments go in circles, it's pretty much because the topic goes in circles, too...

 

[Zyphen]

My opinion is that we didn’t lose because of failed shotmaking in the 4th, whoever you want to blame that on. We scored 118 points!! But we let the Sonics score 122. Lack of rebounding and defense lost the Kings the game and this series.

As to the issue of tiredness, I’m just asking about this, because I was thinking why might Bibby and Peja (King’s top scorers) be more tired at the end of the game than Allen and Lewis (Sonic’s top scorers) after playing a similar number of minutes? Does anybody think that it might have to do with what a player is doing during those minutes?

Allen and Lewis were the Sonics top 2 scorers in game 5. However, they had 5 other teammates score in double figures, so their point total ended up being 44% of the team’s total output.

Bibby and Peja only had 2 other teammates score in double figures, so their poin total ended up being 63% of the team’s total output.

Allen and Lewis’s got 9 of their team’s 43 rebounds – 21%. Peja and Bibby got 7 of their team’s 25 rebounds – 28% (ugh).

Allen and Lewis’s got 10 of their team’s 25 assists – 40%. Peja and Bibby got 14 of their team’s 31 assists – 45%.

Allen and Lewis’s got 2 of their team’s 4 steals – 50%. Peja and Bibby got 5 of their team’s 8 steals – 63%.

Regardless of minutes played, doesn’t it look like Peja and Bibby did more “work” for their team than their top 2 scorers? Would that make them more tired?

Man, talk about asinine use of statistics. This is not even remotely suggestive, let alone relevant.

First rebounds... Since the Sonics obviously outrebounded the Kings, of course Ray + Rashard's 9 boards are a smaller percentage. But by any one's math, 9 > 7. It doesn't even make sense to look at percentage of teammates' rebounds. Common sense says grabbing 9 boards required 2 more "movement to the ball" efforts than 7 boards.

Assists and Steals... I look at these and it seems to me of all the court activities, these are among the least likely to get you winded. I mean jump shots, layups, drives, blocks, rebounding, etc. I can understand. But passing and stripping? Seems more like attentiveness to me. Bibby probably expended more effort on his assists cause he sometimes drives and dishes. Also, with steals, you realize if Ray or Rashard gets 1 more steal, they'll be at 3 of 5 or 60% (10 percent points based off 1 steal, hahahah)? When you got numbers as small as that, using percentages is just too ludicrous. Steals and Blocks only become statistically relevant over many games. Heck, shooting isn't even statistically relevant for any one game unless we're talking about a volume shooter (a scrub going 3/4 is 75%, but common sense dictates that doesn't mean he can go 9/12 with more attempts).

Just another example of horrible application of statistics, IMO ( and to prove tiredness of all things? ). I don't even understand what one's relative production to his teammates has to do with anything. This would mean if your teammates are more productive, you must be fresher. And if they suck, you get more tired (you may be dispirited, but physically tired? c'mon...).

Bottomline, whether or not Bibby and Peja were more tired, I assert that isn't an excuse. Hell, Bibby has come out clutch in OT performances playing close to or over 50 minutes. So have many stars and superstars. Ray and Rashard, even if they weren't as fatigued in this particular game, probably had numerous games where they played through it. And even using absurd math, does the difference really look that big where one side is obviously more tired than the other? You know what's the most relevant stat missing? Minutes. The rest is conjecture based off incorrect application of stats any college professor would cringe at. This ignores the best indicator as well: watching the game.

This is not to say one player can't be more tired than another playing the same number of minutes. But there are much better examples like say in the Dallas vs. Houston series where T-Mac has to guard Dirk but Dirk guards someone like Scott Padgett on the other end. Then there's conditioning, but you assume that most NBA players are well enough conditioned where it's a wash (Ostertag definitely not being in that group).

 

[El Duque]

Damn. Can people just praise Peja without everyone coming in and raining on the parade? Yes, he went 1 for 7 in the fourth. At least he took the shots, and was aggressive in trying to get to the hoop. Isn't that what we've all been asking for from Peja? No, his shots did not go in, but he showed heart and courage in the fourth quarter, regardless. He may have missed 6 of 7, but you can't make 'em if you don't take 'em. I was glad to see Peja play with a pair.

 

[VF21]

Damn. Can people just praise Peja without everyone coming in and raining on the parade?

Probably not any more than people could praise another player last year without others coming in and raining on the parade.

Funny how things like that repeat themselves and it's entirely different when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[El Duque]

Bah, humbug. I hate 'em both. And my feet, too. And my shoes.

 

[VF21]

Man, talk about asinine use of statistics. This is not even remotely suggestive, let alone relevant.

First rebounds... Since the Sonics obviously outrebounded the Kings, of course Ray + Rashard's 9 boards are a smaller percentage. But by any one's math, 9 > 7. It doesn't even make sense to look at percentage of teammates' rebounds. Common sense says grabbing 9 boards required 2 more "movement to the ball" efforts than 7 boards.

Assists and Steals... I look at these and it seems to me of all the court activities, these are among the least likely to get you winded. I mean jump shots, layups, drives, blocks, rebounding, etc. I can understand. But passing and stripping? Seems more like attentiveness to me. Bibby probably expended more effort on his assists cause he sometimes drives and dishes. Also, with steals, you realize if Ray or Rashard gets 1 more steal, they'll be at 3 of 5 or 60% (10 percent points based off 1 steal, hahahah)? When you got numbers as small as that, using percentages is just too ludicrous. Steals and Blocks only become statistically relevant over many games. Heck, shooting isn't even statistically relevant for any one game unless we're talking about a volume shooter (a scrub going 3/4 is 75%, but common sense dictates that doesn't mean he can go 9/12 with more attempts).

Just another example of horrible application of statistics, IMO ( and to prove tiredness of all things? ). I don't even understand what one's relative production to his teammates has to do with anything. This would mean if your teammates are more productive, you must be fresher. And if they suck, you get more tired (you may be dispirited, but physically tired? c'mon...).

Bottomline, whether or not Bibby and Peja were more tired, I assert that isn't an excuse. Hell, Bibby has come out clutch in OT performances playing close to or over 50 minutes. So have many stars and superstars. Ray and Rashard, even if they weren't as fatigued in this particular game, probably had numerous games where they played through it. And even using absurd math, does the difference really look that big where one side is obviously more tired than the other? You know what's the most relevant stat missing? Minutes. The rest is conjecture based off incorrect application of stats any college professor would cringe at. This ignores the best indicator as well: watching the game.

This is not to say one player can't be more tired than another playing the same number of minutes. But there are much better examples like say in the Dallas vs. Houston series where T-Mac has to guard Dirk but Dirk guards someone like Scott Padgett on the other end. Then there's conditioning, but you assume that most NBA players are well enough conditioned where it's a wash (Ostertag definitely not being in that group).

What? Did you SEE the game?

If you don't think Peja and Bibby were totally and completely exhausted, I have to question your vision and/or your perceptions of reality.

Instead of throwing around words like "asinine, relevant, horrible" etc. try considering that your opinion, while verbose, isn't necessarily any more valuable or relevant than anyone else's on this board.

Bottom line? Let's remember to keep it civil. Each member of this forum should be able to come here and post their opinions without fear of ridicule from others.

 

[Zyphen]

They weren't anymore tired than Allen or Lewis. That's the point. That's very different from not tired at all. This is why they are not excused. Else any star player can not come out in the clutch by pulling the "tired" card.

Considering the phrasing of your posts, I don't see anything in mine that is any worse. My stated opinion on tiredness wasn't intended to be seen as a factual statement. I was pointing out the incorrect application of statistics in addition to stating my concluding opinion. I may have given off the impression of talking down at someone, but I don't think it's anymore strong than your posts in similar veins. Why don't you parse over your responses. I used no derogatory language. People can take it however they will. I'm sorry if it seemed arrogant. (no more arrogant than stating one is educated and articulate, imo ).

P.S.: My perception of reality is just fine thank you. I also perceive a double standard here.

 

[Raci]

Of course rebounding and lack of defense is what lost us the game. I am well aware of this.

But I'm not gonna sit here and pat a guy on the back who shot 2 for 16 in the 4th quarters of this series because he tried in the first three quarters!! If this isn't an issue to you, please tell me why!! History shows this is something to worry about.

You want pat him,but others will(me to )

I refuse to sit by and wait another year for this guy to blossom into something more, because it's obvious that he has peaked. We don't need to trade necessarily trade him, but he is not and never will be the leader and motivator that this team so desperately needs. He COULD be, but he refuses to elevate himself to that level by making the commitment and having the self confidence, and I'm not going to cross my fingers for that to change anytime soon.

He's maybe not a leader(but i see a spark) but he can score for shore.
Every team need player like Peja,memorize it.

 

[Raci]

Who created the controversy? IMHO Peja did - knowingly or not - when he went to the media with his announcement that he wanted to be traded.

Kings fans have very long memories and they aren't going to forget that slap on the face and it WAS a slap on the face, whether he realized or meant it to be.

Kings fans trade Peja so many times and still do that,so...i dont know who slap who.

 

[VF21]

They weren't anymore tired than Allen or Lewis. That's the point. That's very different from not tired at all. This is why they are not excused. Else any star player can not come out in the clutch by pulling the "tired" card.

Considering the phrasing of your posts, I don't see anything in mine that is any worse. My stated opinion on tiredness wasn't intended to be seen as a factual statement. I was pointing out the incorrect application of statistics in addition to stating my concluding opinion. I may have given off the impression of talking down at someone, but I don't think it's anymore strong than your posts in similar veins. Why don't you parse over your responses. I used no derogatory language. People can take it however they will. I'm sorry if it seemed arrogant. (no more arrogant than stating one is educated and articulate, imo ).

P.S.: My perception of reality is just fine thank you. I also perceive a double standard here.

Peja and Bibby were clearly exhausted at the end of the game. Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis weren't. It's not an excuse for anything. It's a statement of fact.

 

[kennadog]

They weren't anymore tired than Allen or Lewis. That's the point. That's very different from not tired at all. This is why they are not excused. Else any star player can not come out in the clutch by pulling the "tired" card.

Considering the phrasing of your posts, I don't see anything in mine that is any worse. My stated opinion on tiredness wasn't intended to be seen as a factual statement. I was pointing out the incorrect application of statistics in addition to stating my concluding opinion. I may have given off the impression of talking down at someone, but I don't think it's anymore strong than your posts in similar veins. Why don't you parse over your responses. I used no derogatory language. People can take it however they will. I'm sorry if it seemed arrogant. (no more arrogant than stating one is educated and articulate, imo ).

P.S.: My perception of reality is just fine thank you. I also perceive a double standard here.

I was a bit offended and I wasn't trying to make excuses for anybody. Maybe I shouldn't have used anything statistical at all. I was primarily asking if anyone thought that minutes always = energy expended. Obviously, you think it does. I'm okay with that opinion from you. And if you think VF21 has some kind of double standard, you haven't read her answers to some of my posts.

(VF21 )

 

[El Duque]

Zyphen, you could be a Navy S.E.A.L in elite condition used to running at full speed while under fire with a hundred pounds of gear on, and you'd still be tired after carrying a basketball team in an elimination game in the NBA playoffs. No, it wouldn't be more stressful or strenuous, but they are still humans. Unless you want them 'roiding it up, fatigue is inevitable. Fatigue = decreased performance, PARTICULARLY in the jump shot. Welcome back to reality, good sir.

 

[Raci]

Damn. Can people just praise Peja without everyone coming in and raining on the parade? Yes, he went 1 for 7 in the fourth. At least he took the shots, and was aggressive in trying to get to the hoop. Isn't that what we've all been asking for from Peja? No, his shots did not go in, but he showed heart and courage in the fourth quarter, regardless. He may have missed 6 of 7, but you can't make 'em if you don't take 'em. I was glad to see Peja play with a pair.

Wel this people talking abouth 1-6,1-7,and nothing to said when he have 10-11 in a same game,doubly criteria.

 

[VF21]

Kings fans trade Peja so many times and still do that,so...i dont know who slap who.

You're coming from a totally different perspective so I don't think we could ever see the situation the same way.

What I'm talking about is the fact that Peja chose to announce his trade demand in a manner that was a slap in the face to a lot of people. He made comments that really hurt, such as saying he didn't care where he went as long as he was traded from Sacramento.

People who have been fans of the Sacramento Kings for a long time took offense. We are very supportive of our team members around here and Peja, probably without knowing it, really made us feel as if he didn't care about us at all...

 

[Zyphen]

Peja and Bibby were clearly exhausted at the end of the game. Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis weren't. It's not an excuse for anything. It's a statement of fact.

Then there's no point in arguing further. Please forward these factual assessments to Adelman in future games so he knows when not to push exhausted players further. I did not realize Allen and Lewis had such high ATP counts.

 

[VF21]

Wel this people talking abouth 1-6,1-7,and nothing to said when he have 10-11 in a same game,doubly criteria.

Good lord.

Would you please quit acting as though we're all spitting on your favorite countryman?

This is a message board dedicated to the Sacramento Kings. We're here because we're fans of the Sacramento Kings. We discuss pretty much every single thing that happens. A lot of it is criticism.

The same things have been said at various times about virtually every single player on the team.

They're big boys. I think they can take it.

 

[VF21]

Then there's no point in arguing further. Please forward these factual assessments to Adelman in future games so he knows when not to push exhausted players further. I did not realize Allen and Lewis had such high ATP counts.

There apparently are a lot of things you don't realize.

Rick Adelman knew what he was doing. Peja and Bibby deserved to be in there. Pulling them would only have led to a lot of speculation that he was disappointed in them, had lost faith in them, etc. and that certainly wasn't the message he wanted to be sending about the two guys who did all they could to get the win.