Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

[ShastaKingsFan]

Not sold on Keon as a starter. He did an amazing job against the Warriors, but came back and played absoulutey putrid against the Pelicans. In 28mins of action, he produced: 0pts 1ast 2blks 1to 0rebs.

In games where he's played at least 20mpg, he's scored 5pts or less in 7 of them.. he needs a lot more confidence in his offense.

If we can get Grant without giving up Keegan, I would do it in a heartbeat. Keon should not be the piece that makes you pause on a potential trade. There's not much that separates Keon from other random role players like Josh Okogie, Garrison Matthews, Craig Porter, etc.

They have a higher ceiling with Keon, than they do with Huerter as a starter

 

[hrdboild]

I would not trade Keon and #13 for Grant, and agree Grant isn't the solution to all of our problems, but let's also not pretend that upgrading Barnes' spot in the starting lineup to Grant, and keeping Barnes off the bench doesn't solve a lot of problems. If you can trade Huerter, #13 and filler for Grant then you do it.

Starting Grant, Keegan, and Ellis gives us three very strong, rangy defenders in the starting lineup. Grant can play as a legitimate #2 scoring option, allowing Keegan to float to a #3 role, allowing Domas to facilitate, and letting Keon play 3/D. Plus, you can shift Barnes' offense to the bench to help Monk (hopefully) provide some scoring pop. You would also still have Mitchell and Barnes as potential trade options, and have a full MLE.

And if you are worried about Grant's rebounding that is fair, but he would also be replacing Barnes in the lineup, so let's not pretend we are downgrading from Moses Malone on the rebounding front.

Yeah but Jerami Grant's $30-35 million per year salary causes more problems than his play solves. I don't disagree about upgrading the starting PF spot and Grant fits the template of a player type we should be looking for but any appeal he had for me was gone as soon as he signed that contract. He's a decent starter being paid like an All-Star.

If it comes down to it, I bet we could just draft a player at #13 this year to fill that role who would be close enough to Jerami Grant in production for $27-30 million less per year that we would come out ahead. And we don't have to give up Keon.

 

[Kingster]

I mean, we didn't have enough scoring, because a good chunk of our scoring was hurt lol.

We had more defense though. Ellis and Mitchell took a lot of those minutes. Heurter and Monk aren't going to stop anybody. Also, Heurter didn't even have much of a year on offense, so the Kings got neither offense nor defense from him.

 

[The Effort Police]

They have a higher ceiling with Keon, than they do with Huerter as a starter

That's because Keon is the ideal 5th option for a starting lineup. And Huerter is... not that.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

True, but in fairness one is a role player and the other is putting up 20+ ppg 3 out of the last 4 years. At the same age in a similar role to Keon as a 3 and D guy Grant had a WS/48 of .13 and a defensive win share of 3.3.

But of course, that was 6 years ago, and on almost 3x the minutes that Keon played this year.

My point is not exactly that Keon is *better* than Grant. They play different positions, so apples-to-apples is not easy.

My point is that Grant is wildly overpaid and (though I didn't specifically point it out above) for the last four years he has not even once been an average NBA player in terms of WS/48. Yes, that's only one metric, but when a guy is due 4/$132M (which would come up to an expectation of like 30 WS) and he's been worth 12.2 WS in the past four years, and he ain't getting any younger...this is a recipe for a fanbase pulling out the torches and pitchforks and demanding to go back to the good ol' Harrison Barnes days, that's what I'm saying.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Grant's contract is worse than I remembered. yikes.

don't get me wrong, I'd take him but we shouldn't have to give up much more than appropriate salary because he sure isn't going to help Portland do much any time soon.

 

[The_Jamal]

But of course, that was 6 years ago, and on almost 3x the minutes that Keon played this year.

My point is not exactly that Keon is *better* than Grant. They play different positions, so apples-to-apples is not easy.

My point is that Grant is wildly overpaid and (though I didn't specifically point it out above) for the last four years he has not even once been an average NBA player in terms of WS/48. Yes, that's only one metric, but when a guy is due 4/$132M (which would come up to an expectation of like 30 WS) and he's been worth 12.2 WS in the past four years, and he ain't getting any younger...this is a recipe for a fanbase pulling out the torches and pitchforks and demanding to go back to the good ol' Harrison Barnes days, that's what I'm saying.

Finally, another voice of reason!

I've never understood the Grant love around here. The Den version? Perfect. The past 4 years of Grant? Oof.

 

[Rain man]

Finally, another voice of reason!

I've never understood the Grant love around here. The Den version? Perfect. The past 4 years of Grant? Oof.

But here is the thing, his performance the past 4 years is skewed by how horrible his teams have been. He is a #2/#3 player who has been miscast in higher roles. Now that is mostly his fault, since he left Denver to get a bigger role he probably didn't deserve, but he has been miscast too high up the pecking order. It is no coincidence that his best year in the past 4 was last year when he played with Dame.

Is he overpaid? Probably, especially if you bring him in to blend with Domas, Keegan, and Monk, as s sort of "revolving" option as the #2 option on a nightly basis. But his defense, length, and ability to score are exactly what this team needs. If he accepts his role as a sometimes #2 option/sometimes #3 option who score 16-17 points per game, instead of a #1/#2 who scores 24 points per game then it is perfect. Yes he would be overpaid, but he is also a really great fit, and sometimes you have to overpay for fit.

 

[The_Jamal]

But here is the thing, his performance the past 4 years is skewed by how horrible his teams have been. He is a #2/#3 player who has been miscast in higher roles. Now that is mostly his fault, since he left Denver to get a bigger role he probably didn't deserve, but he has been miscast too high up the pecking order. It is no coincidence that his best year in the past 4 was last year when he played with Dame.

Is he overpaid? Probably, especially if you bring him in to blend with Domas, Keegan, and Monk, as s sort of "revolving" option as the #2 option on a nightly basis. But his defense, length, and ability to score are exactly what this team needs. If he accepts his role as a sometimes #2 option/sometimes #3 option who score 16-17 points per game, instead of a #1/#2 who scores 24 points per game then it is perfect. Yes he would be overpaid, but he is also a really great fit, and sometimes you have to overpay for fit.

I agree...to an extent.

Would he be willing to drop down to a 16-17% USG role, play great defense, etc? Is he fine not being a feature "20 PPG" scorer anymore?

Not so sure. Dude had the gravy train in DEN and threw away his prime because he thought he was a #1 option.

If you got him to commit to that DEN version of play, then yeah, I don't care that he's overpaid, he'd be an incredibly valuable player. The 20 PPG scorer the last 4 years just is not a guy conducive to winning basketball.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

That's because Keon is the ideal 5th option for a starting lineup. And Huerter is... not that.

and he is a very good, potentially great defender. Which this team desperately needed

 

[Rain man]

I agree...to an extent.

Would he be willing to drop down to a 16-17% USG role, play great defense, etc? Is he fine not being a feature "20 PPG" scorer anymore?

Not so sure. Dude had the gravy train in DEN and threw away his prime because he thought he was a #1 option.

If you got him to commit to that DEN version of play, then yeah, I don't care that he's overpaid, he'd be an incredibly valuable player. The 20 PPG scorer the last 4 years just is not a guy conducive to winning basketball.

Yup- that is the rub. It is why it would be a huge/defining move for Monte, either good or bad. I think the hope (best possible spin) is that he wanted his shot at getting paid and being the guy, and he has now gotten two huge contracts. Now, with the benefit of hindsight he is maybe (hopefully) more secure taking back the lesser role he is better suited for, especially since he is getting paid 4 more years.

I know nothing about him so I have no idea how likely that is. But some guys grow up and change their mindset, especially if they are getting paid. And some guys don't. That is the risk with Grant.

 

[SacTownKid]

But of course, that was 6 years ago, and on almost 3x the minutes that Keon played this year.

My point is not exactly that Keon is *better* than Grant. They play different positions, so apples-to-apples is not easy.

My point is that Grant is wildly overpaid and (though I didn't specifically point it out above) for the last four years he has not even once been an average NBA player in terms of WS/48. Yes, that's only one metric, but when a guy is due 4/$132M (which would come up to an expectation of like 30 WS) and he's been worth 12.2 WS in the past four years, and he ain't getting any younger...this is a recipe for a fanbase pulling out the torches and pitchforks and demanding to go back to the good ol' Harrison Barnes days, that's what I'm saying.

Win shares are tough when you're on crappy teams. Is Grant a superstar? Nope. If they want star value that might even be a stretch but Grant can do things with the ball that Barnes won't do and the Kings clearly need the productivity Grant would bring. With Keon rising I think production types like Grant and to a lesser extent Kyle Kuzma become much more viable.

 

[twslam07]

I agree...to an extent.

Would he be willing to drop down to a 16-17% USG role, play great defense, etc? Is he fine not being a feature "20 PPG" scorer anymore?

Not so sure. Dude had the gravy train in DEN and threw away his prime because he thought he was a #1 option.

If you got him to commit to that DEN version of play, then yeah, I don't care that he's overpaid, he'd be an incredibly valuable player. The 20 PPG scorer the last 4 years just is not a guy conducive to winning basketball.

I mean he did average 20.7 PTS (per36) with a 60.6% TS% when he was on a team with a #1 option (Lillard). As a comparison, Monk averaged 21.3 PTS (per36) with a 56.4% TS%.

You could do a lot worse than Grant as a #2 scoring option, but we also have the added luxury of having a 3rd go-to scorer (Monk) and good secondary scorers (Sabonis, Murray, and Barnes) to help elevate the offense.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I mean he did average 20.7 PTS (per36) with a 60.6% TS% when he was on a team with a #1 option (Lillard). As a comparison, Monk averaged 21.3 PTS (per36) with a 56.4% TS%.

You could do a lot worse than Grant as a #2 scoring option, but we also have the added luxury of having a 3rd go-to scorer (Monk) and good secondary scorers (Sabonis, Murray, and Barnes) to help elevate the offense.

Odds are that Monk is moving on. Probably should form ideas around that assumption

 

[twslam07]

Odds are that Monk is moving on. Probably should form ideas around that assumption

Well you need to plan for both outcomes.

 

[serbiangoat]

If Lauri is up for trade I would absolutely trade Murray/filler/picks for him, there is very few players that can do what Lauri does and a lot that do what Keegan does and probably better. You can replace 3 and D wings to play next to Sabonis/Fox but a legit 7 foot 2nd option (wiith smallball skills) that can play next to Sabonis is a complete rarity I would have personally gone for Porzingis prior to the season as well for Murray.

Murray is good/will be good but guys like Zinger/Lauri and to a lesser extent JJJ (Memphis) are just god tier fits next to Sabonis which there are very few of the other 2 would be AD and Bam so literally like 5 guys in the NBA are elite fits and maybe only Lauri and JJJ (disastrous playoffs previous year and bad RS this year) are maybe gettable.

A last resort would be maybe John Collins to provide Sabonis his own version of Aaron Gordon and provide vertical spacing and hope he gets his 3pt shot back to a respectable level but I'm not trading Murray for him,

 

[iowamcnabb]

The free agent class is really rough this year. I’m having a hard time finding anyone to sign with the mid level if we end up needing to replace Monk. The only scorers that make sense at first glance would be guys liks Oubre and Burks. Your best bet imo is probably to make HB your primary offensive player off the bench next year and bring in a facilitator to compete with Colby. Package KVon, 13 and filler to find an upgrade at the 4. Or if that doesn’t work, you better find a guy with the draft pick.

 

[luckytkp]

If Lauri is up for trade I would absolutely trade Murray/filler/picks for him, there is very few players that can do what Lauri does and a lot that do what Keegan does and probably better. You can replace 3 and D wings to play next to Sabonis/Fox but a legit 7 foot 2nd option (wiith smallball skills) that can play next to Sabonis is a complete rarity I would have personally gone for Porzingis prior to the season as well for Murray.

Murray is good/will be good but guys like Zinger/Lauri and to a lesser extent JJJ (Memphis) are just god tier fits next to Sabonis which there are very few of the other 2 would be AD and Bam so literally like 5 guys in the NBA are elite fits and maybe only Lauri and JJJ (disastrous playoffs previous year and bad RS this year) are maybe gettable.

A last resort would be maybe John Collins to provide Sabonis his own version of Aaron Gordon and provide vertical spacing and hope he gets his 3pt shot back to a respectable level but I'm not trading Murray for him,

I like John Collins, decent finisher, good rebounder and his 3pts is back to 37% this season. The only thing is his salary is 25m/year.

 

[dude12]

If we lose Monk, I think Huerter becomes an important piece off the bench as he can run the pick and roll a little bit as well as put the ball on the floor a bit. Certainly not high level stuff but his skill set would help. Personally would like to keep Monk and Huerter as offensive pieces to go with an upgrade somewhere.
I think Grant can help. Collins can help but I’m starting to wonder why teams are giving up on him.

Someone said Naji Marshall is a RFA……he would fit and we could use a guy with an edge.

Id also look to upgrade Davion as the backup PG. I like Davion a lot but think he’s a SG. Would want someone who could run the team, play some defense, capable of creating his own offense as well. Someone taller and longer. adding more length should be a box we check in the off-season

 

[The_Jamal]

Win shares are tough when you're on crappy teams. Is Grant a superstar? Nope. If they want star value that might even be a stretch but Grant can do things with the ball that Barnes won't do and the Kings clearly need the productivity Grant would bring. With Keon rising I think production types like Grant and to a lesser extent Kyle Kuzma become much more viable.

... but why?

Sure, you can use the excuse they're on a bad team, but good players still show out on a stat sheet. Grant and Kuzma just don't anymore. You are betting a hell of a lot that the bad production is just linked to them being miscast in roles they aren't suited for.

The free agent class is really rough this year. I’m having a hard time finding anyone to sign with the mid level if we end up needing to replace Monk. The only scorers that make sense at first glance would be guys liks Oubre and Burks. Your best bet imo is probably to make HB your primary offensive player off the bench next year and bring in a facilitator to compete with Colby. Package KVon, 13 and filler to find an upgrade at the 4. Or if that doesn’t work, you better find a guy with the draft pick.

I'm tempted to continue to play the long game and keep the pick. Especially if Monk does walk. Keons (and to some extent, Davion) emergence changes a lot in our trajectory, if he truly is a reliable defensive stud starter at the 2. I still think you have to move on from HB and probably, Huerter, although I think Huerter could be reborn in Bogi Bogdanovic type 6th man role.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

I read on a Rockets forum that they're interested in trading for Keegan Murray.

Dillon Brooks + 2024 and 2026 Nets FRPs for Murray + filler

Would you do that deal?

Brooks fills in at SF, and the two Nets picks can be sent out along with Harrison Barnes for an upgrade at PF.

Alternatively, the Kings could try re-routing Brooks to GSW for Wiggins... and send Barnes + 2024 Nets FRP (9th) to PTL for Jerami Grant.

G: Fox, Monk, Davion
G: Ellis, Huerter
F: Wiggins, Edwards
F: Jerami, Lyles, Sasha
C: Sabonis, ??, Len

+ 2026 Nets pick

 

[macadocious]

I vomited in my mouth a bit.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I read on a Rockets forum that they're interested in trading for Keegan Murray.

It's nice to want things.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I read on a Rockets forum that they're interested in trading for Keegan Murray.

Dillon Brooks + 2024 and 2026 Nets FRPs for Murray + filler

Would you do that deal?

Brooks fills in at SF, and the two Nets picks can be sent out along with Harrison Barnes for an upgrade at PF.

Alternatively, the Kings could try re-routing Brooks to GSW for Wiggins... and send Barnes + 2024 Nets FRP (9th) to PTL for Jerami Grant.

G: Fox, Monk, Davion
G: Ellis, Huerter
F: Wiggins, Edwards
F: Jerami, Lyles, Sasha
C: Sabonis, ??, Len

+ 2026 Nets pick

They should have drafted him when they had the chance then.

For Dillon Brooks lol

 

[206Fan]

I read on a Rockets forum that they're interested in trading for Keegan Murray.

Dillon Brooks + 2024 and 2026 Nets FRPs for Murray + filler

Would you do that deal?

Brooks fills in at SF, and the two Nets picks can be sent out along with Harrison Barnes for an upgrade at PF.

Alternatively, the Kings could try re-routing Brooks to GSW for Wiggins... and send Barnes + 2024 Nets FRP (9th) to PTL for Jerami Grant.

G: Fox, Monk, Davion
G: Ellis, Huerter
F: Wiggins, Edwards
F: Jerami, Lyles, Sasha
C: Sabonis, ??, Len

+ 2026 Nets pick

Hell no. But I don’t think this makes sense for the Rockets because they already have wings in Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason, and Cam Whitmore who are all younger than Keegan with at least equal ceilings to him. Doesn’t make sense for them to give up all of that for Keegan. Also doesn’t make sense for the Kings to trade their best young prospect for Dillon Brooks and picks.

 

[The_Jamal]

Hell no. But I don’t think this makes sense for the Rockets because they already have wings in Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason, and Cam Whitmore who are all younger than Keegan with at least equal ceilings to him. Doesn’t make sense for them to give up all of that for Keegan. Also doesn’t make sense for the Kings to trade their best young prospect for Dillon Brooks and picks.

Rockets snap accept this deal, what are you talking about? They get to move forward with a Green-Keegan-Jabari-Sengun core? Sheesh. All those extra wings just become trade fodder and they can restock their FRP stockpile with.

 

[SacTownKid]

... but why?

Sure, you can use the excuse they're on a bad team, but good players still show out on a stat sheet. Grant and Kuzma just don't anymore. You are betting a hell of a lot that the bad production is just linked to them being miscast in roles they aren't suited for.



I'm tempted to continue to play the long game and keep the pick. Especially if Monk does walk. Keons (and to some extent, Davion) emergence changes a lot in our trajectory, if he truly is a reliable defensive stud starter at the 2. I still think you have to move on from HB and probably, Huerter, although I think Huerter could be reborn in Bogi Bogdanovic type 6th man role.

And I will. Bad team. Look at his numbers with Denver and it's clear. As a number 1 option obviously he's not the difference as a 2nd/3rd, it's a better option than Barnes IMO and unless the Kings can land a legit star without Keegan it's about as good as it gets.

 

[SacTownKid]

I agree...to an extent.

Would he be willing to drop down to a 16-17% USG role, play great defense, etc? Is he fine not being a feature "20 PPG" scorer anymore?

Not so sure. Dude had the gravy train in DEN and threw away his prime because he thought he was a #1 option.

If you got him to commit to that DEN version of play, then yeah, I don't care that he's overpaid, he'd be an incredibly valuable player. The 20 PPG scorer the last 4 years just is not a guy conducive to winning basketball.

Here's the thing about Grant as opposed to Barnes, Grant actually has a history of doing close to it whereas Barnes hasn't. Barnes in iso in a vacuum is >>>> Grant, but no team has appeared to be willing to give Barnes that including the Kings and from what it looks like it's because Barnes won't accept the offer.

 

[SacTownKid]

If we lose Monk, I think Huerter becomes an important piece off the bench as he can run the pick and roll a little bit as well as put the ball on the floor a bit. Certainly not high level stuff but his skill set would help. Personally would like to keep Monk and Huerter as offensive pieces to go with an upgrade somewhere.
I think Grant can help. Collins can help but I’m starting to wonder why teams are giving up on him.

Someone said Naji Marshall is a RFA……he would fit and we could use a guy with an edge.

Id also look to upgrade Davion as the backup PG. I like Davion a lot but think he’s a SG. Would want someone who could run the team, play some defense, capable of creating his own offense as well. Someone taller and longer. adding more length should be a box we check in the off-season

Huerter off the bench is too much money I think since he's basically been a system player with the Kings. If Brown would change up his view of everyone outside of Fox and Domas then maybe but I doubt it. If Brown thinks Huerter can do basically what Monk can then it should work, if not, the first sign of failure is a kabosh.

 

[SacTownKid]

I read on a Rockets forum that they're interested in trading for Keegan Murray.

Dillon Brooks + 2024 and 2026 Nets FRPs for Murray + filler

Would you do that deal?

Brooks fills in at SF, and the two Nets picks can be sent out along with Harrison Barnes for an upgrade at PF.

Alternatively, the Kings could try re-routing Brooks to GSW for Wiggins... and send Barnes + 2024 Nets FRP (9th) to PTL for Jerami Grant.

G: Fox, Monk, Davion
G: Ellis, Huerter
F: Wiggins, Edwards
F: Jerami, Lyles, Sasha
C: Sabonis, ??, Len

+ 2026 Nets pick

The end result is nice, but you're assuming the Warriors take a lot of the burden on trade wise. I can't see it.