Playing time for Justin Williams

[OptimusRhyme]

I think we are crazy for not playing Williams, hes not learning sitting on the bench we are wasting him. They should send him to the D-League if they're not going to play him! Last game he came in & threw down a dunk and blocked the hell outta some dude on his very first two possesions, those were his only possesions in the game.
I like Reggie as a coach but I think hes made big mistakes not playing WIlliams. Mikki dosen't need 30 minutes a game to be effective at what he does, I would go out on a limb and say Justin would have better stats then Mikki 9 out of 10 times if he played the minutes Mikki had each game.

So Reggie please give him some more minutes, give the kid a chance he wants to play, he looks hungry, he would be a good fit beside Miller.
Enough said from me what do yall think?

 

[AyeCarly]

Until I hear a concrete reason from the coach why he shouldn't be playing and from what I have seen he brings in regards to defense (and Mikki's lack thereof), I would love to see him play more, cause there's nothing more exciting and momentum changing than blocked shots IMO.

 

[Heuge]

If we can figure a way to get williams and hawes extended PT, but Hawes has the greater upside.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

If we can figure a way to get williams and hawes extended PT, but Hawes has the greater upside.

Agreed.
But, right now Miller does everything Hawes does only better(for now). Plus Spencer will probably learn more just sitting there watching Miller do his thang at an allstar level(Since they are such similar players), which in the end will be better for the Kings and Hawes.
On the other hand Justin can do what Mikki can do possibly more effectivly and at a higher rate. Both are energy players both have no offensive game so I don't see the reason to not give Williams some PT at PF over Mikki, other then exp. and a contract.

 

[VF21]

One thing Justin cannot do, at least so far, is take a charge and it's nice to see a 4 in a Kings uniform actually doing that.

I would like to see him get more time but I think he's got a long way to go before that will actually happen.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

One thing Justin cannot do, at least so far, is take a charge and it's nice to see a 4 in a Kings uniform actually doing that.

I would like to see him get more time but I think he's got a long way to go before that will actually happen.

Yea, gotta give props to Mikki for taking alot of charges.
Im not hating on Mikki either I love his energy, but Its just nice to see hungry players like Williams succeed, he could be a really good story for the Kings if his oppurtunity is fairly given to him.

 

[fnordius]

The stats side, which I would say Justin wins:

JW vs Mikki, in games where each played over 6 minutes, per 48

..........Pts....Reb....Ast....Blk....Stl....TO....PF
JW...14.22...22.22..0.0....1.78...0.0...1.78...4.44
MM...13.44...9.75...1.16...0.84..0.84..2.20...6.40
Net.....0.78..12.47...1.16...0.94..0.84..0.42..1.96 (per 48 given to Justin instead of Mikki)

From a non-statistical perspective, I think Mikki's on the roster partly because it makes trading away one or more veteran bigs easy, IF there were anyone willing to take them, which there isn't. But I think that Mikki was also signed for his attitude, which is much better than his talent as a player. His +/- numbers are such that his good attitude does not seem to be enough to offset his relatively modest talent, but hey, it was worth a try. He is willing to take charges, which is good, but Justin draws shooting fouls at nearly double the rate of Mikki, which is A Good Thing even if he doesn't hit many of the FT. And Justin's attitude has always seemed very positive, too.

I'd have to say that, overall, things favor Justin, and that it should now be up to Mikki to prove that his intangibles outweigh the statistical improvements we'd make by giving Justin a lot of his minutes. So far, I don't think he's done that, and the need for player development should mean that Mikki loses ties anyway.

So I see no reason why Justin shouldn't be tried out with 10-20 minutes a game, effective last month, if not sooner.

But maybe Reggie thinks that Justin's peed in his cornflakes. I honestly can't see any other likely reason for benching him like that. A guy who put on 30 or 40 pounds of muscle in a matter of a few months, because that was what the coaching staff wanted him to do, seems likely to make good effort in other areas of practice, wouldn't you think?

 

[LPKingsFan]

If we can figure a way to get williams and hawes extended PT, but Hawes has the greater upside.

Don't think the two have to me mutually exclusive. In fact, I think they compliment each other well.

 

[91sickness]

I voted "Most Definitely!" from what we saw at the very end of last season Williams was getting consistent double doubles type numbers. Last April he was averaging 9 points and 7 rebs on only 22 minutes. Imagine if he played more and was able to develope! He could become a solid big man. He could be a B level Marcus Camby. I would love to see a few years from now Hawes and J-Will as our big men.

 

[creAtivetfh]

if justin could make freethrows and not look like he's on skates out there i might understand why you guys like him so much. Until then...

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Most Definitely!

Bjax? Is that you?

 

[OptimusRhyme]

if justin could make freethrows and not look like he's on skates out there i might understand why you guys like him so much. Until then...

I want him to get court time because he does the things we need the most(Off. Reb, Def. Reb & Alter shots), its not that hard to understand.

Its hard to come into a game and perform well knowing your going to be pulled right away if you make one mistake(Justin usually gets pulled after a mistake and thats not helping his confidence).
I think you would see improvement in those areas if Justins playing time had some improvement.

Imagine what hes thinking when hes shooting freethrows "Man if i miss this reggie is going to pull me" and then he misses and gets pulled. ITs confidence more then anything. Yet he still seems to play well everytime hes inserted even tho he knows hes going to be pulled after the next whistle. Reggie needs too fine tune his playing time and show trust in him.

 

[RunNGun]

Considering that Reggie obviously has no problem playing youth over veterans I think there may be a deeper off-the-court reason why Justin Williams doesn't get PT. Maybe he doesn't practice as hard as Reggie wants. Maybe he's kind of a drag on his teammates. Maybe he just doesn't get the offensive game that Reggie wants. Maybe Williams just pissed off Reggie by getting himself into a position to find trouble at the start of the season (unproven guys don't get the luxury of the doubt like slightly unstable stars).

I think I am going to have to trust Reggie's opinion on this one. He knows this team better than any of us.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Considering that Reggie obviously has no problem playing youth over veterans I think there may be a deeper off-the-court reason why Justin Williams doesn't get PT. Maybe he doesn't practice as hard as Reggie wants. Maybe he's kind of a drag on his teammates. Maybe he just doesn't get the offensive game that Reggie wants. Maybe Williams just pissed off Reggie by getting himself into a position to find trouble at the start of the season (unproven guys don't get the luxury of the doubt like slightly unstable stars).

I think I am going to have to trust Reggie's opinion on this one. He knows this team better than any of us.

Yah thats what I'm starting to think too.
There must be another underlying cause to his lack of playing time.

 

[Kingzrool]

..........Pts....Reb....Ast....Blk....Stl....TO....PF
JW...14.22...22.22..0.0....1.78...0.0...1.78...4.44

Are you really meaning that JW averaged 22.22 rebounds in games that he played over 6 mins? That cannot be right.

Most definately. Justin absolutely positively needs more minutes. This is my biggest gripe with Theus. His faults are the kind that can be corrected with more PT and his strengths are the kind that can't. On top of that, his strengths are what the Kings lack the most.

Whatever he did that pissed off Theus, I hope he makes it up soon.

I am beginning to fear that we may see him reach his potential on another team. When GP scooped him from the D league, it was because other teams were beginning to gain interest. If we do not use him, there are other teams that also need a cheap, rebounding, shot blocking menace with hustle.

Theus has done enough good to outweigh this bad IMO.

 

[VF21]

I think those are projected out to be per 48 stats, Kingzrool.



As far as him doing something to anger Theus, I think the truth is much more simple. As RunNGun has pointed out, Reggie has no problem playing the kids provided they're putting forth the effort in practice, etc. If Williams isn't getting the PT, you have to wonder if he simply isn't doing as much as he possibly can to earn the time.

 

[dude12]

It's simple......Theus has basically said you have to earn playing time. Hawes and Justin do not play good enough defense yet. JW can go get a rebound and Hawes shows some ability to score but when its all said and done, they have to improve defensively. I'm glad he's taking this stance.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

It's simple......Theus has basically said you have to earn playing time. Hawes and Justin do not play good enough defense yet. JW can go get a rebound and Hawes shows some ability to score but when its all said and done, they have to improve defensively. I'm glad he's taking this stance.

Exactly you can't improve your defence in practice alone, you need to gain confidence in game situations. Thats why that stance you speak of should be looked over again by Theus.

 

[VF21]

Exactly you can't improve your defence in practice alone, you need to gain confidence in game situations. Thats why that stance you speak of should be looked over again by Theus.

Au contraire, mon ami. You can battle in practice and do a LOT to hone your defensive skills. If you show the determination and focus on defense in practice, you're well on your way to earning more minutes on the court.

It's the one area where Reggie has been consistent. You can't expect him to change it to fit one player. If Justin was lighting it up in practice with blocked shots, rebounding, etc. he would be getting some more steps on the court.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Au contraire, mon ami. You can battle in practice and do a LOT to hone your defensive skills. If you show the determination and focus on defense in practice, you're well on your way to earning more minutes on the court.

It's the one area where Reggie has been consistent. You can't expect him to change it to fit one player. If Justin was lighting it up in practice with blocked shots, rebounding, etc. he would be getting some more steps on the court.

Agreed.

But, practicing and battling with your teamates is alot different then battling opposition that is out to make you loose.

 

[VF21]

I'm not denying that. It's his effort we're talking about. If he does, indeed, show maximum effort in practice he will most likely be rewarded with more PT. Think back. I can remember more than just a few occasions when Grant or Jerry has mentioned how excellent effort (like with Douby in particular) during practice has resulted in more time on the court during games.

 

[Warhawk]

Au contraire, mon ami. You can battle in practice and do a LOT to hone your defensive skills. If you show the determination and focus on defense in practice, you're well on your way to earning more minutes on the court.

It's the one area where Reggie has been consistent. You can't expect him to change it to fit one player. If Justin was lighting it up in practice with blocked shots, rebounding, etc. he would be getting some more steps on the court.

Unless you are Mike Bibby.

<runs and hides>

 

[bajaden]

I think the probable reason Justin doesn't get the minutes is that he's often out of position on defense. There's no denying his ability, but there's more to playing than blocking shots, which I think is overrated anyway.

For every blocked shot he has, he may also be failing to rotate to the proper position on the floor. Many times the person who looks bad on defense, isn't the one who screwed up.

 

[kennadog]

Unless you are Mike Bibby.

<runs and hides>

Actually, Theus and Randy Brown have both gone out of their way to compliment Bibby on his defense since his return. So apparently, its okay in their view. I can't remember all the comments, but they said his effort is great and he has the rotations down pat and knows what he's supposed to do out there. Are they just justifying his playing time, by saying that? I don't presume to know.

 

[Bricklayer]

Unless you are Mike Bibby.

<runs and hides>

Or Kevin Martin.


Reggie is no more immune to playing the guys that are supposed to play than any other coach. All that defense-to-get-on-the-court huffing and puffing was just that. And it had to be. Good that he said it I suppose, just to try to get some extra effort. BUt there was no way to practically carry out the threat. You bench those guys, you have revolt. Not worth it. There have been so far as I can tell exactly zero instances of better defensive players stealing major minutes from better offensive players this year. Perhaps every once in while in an individual game. But Damon Jones is not going to start over Kevin. Justin is not going to start over Brad, Douby is not going to start over Mike. The guys with the offense and egos get the minutes as usual.

 

[fnordius]

Here's my favorite surreal explanation.

"Justin! What the hell were you thinking? As everybody knows, I am the sexy playboy of this franchise! Whose Chicago bachelor pad is still legendary? Whose many girlfriends were so hot that even Michael Jordan had to settle for one of his castoff exes? Mine, that's whose! You're on my **** list as of right now!

As for the rest of you, curfew is at midnight, effective immediately!"

 

[Gary]

I am on the fence with Williams. I am one of Williams biggest supporters too... I wanted the Kings to actually draft the guy instead of Douby, and was stoked when he went undrafted and we picked him up..

Anyhow, He's got to prove himself. He is kind of a liability when out on the floor. His defense is suspect, he can't score, and he isn't very good on help D, and seems to get "lost" out there. The only thing he does well is block some shots, and rebound.

I don't think his skills outweigh his shortcomings as of yet.

 

[NikateeN]

Anyhow, He's got to prove himself. He is kind of a liability when out on the floor. His defense is suspect, he can't score, and he isn't very good on help D, and seems to get "lost" out there. The only thing he does well is block some shots, and rebound.

I don't think his skills outweigh his shortcomings as of yet.

I pretty much feel the same way, id love to see him get some playing time, but at the same time when he does it seems hes lost, he has a hard time scoring, and ive seen some pretty odd fouls come from him, but at the same time hes had very limited time on the floor, hopefully he can get into the rythem of the game.

 

[bloom]

I would love to see Justin get more playing time, but I would love for him to work on his offensive skills. He needs to be able to make shots there’s some give-me shots that he’s missed. But if Moore is missing catches and throws balls oob, then why can’t Justin be given more minutes?

This kinda reminds me of what Muss did to Ronnie last year. The kid would come up court, he lost the ball then ran all the way down the other side of the court, blocked the shot and Muss pulls him from the game. Or he would dunk it and then Eric decided Ronnie didn’t deserve to be out there. Puzzling and frustrating.

 

[CalBears1]

On the post game show I believe after the last home game, this same question came up, and one of the commentators(I cannot remember which one) said that Williams just does not have a handle on the offense and is too much of a liability out there until he does get a grasp of it.