[PHX/SAS] 2008 NBA Playoffs Discussion
- Thread starter Larry89
- Start date
- Status
You can blame the Suns for the turnovers, but a lot of those foul calls were BS. Did you see the one where Tony Parker dove on the ground and Amare got his 5th foul without even touching him? The Spurs pull this nonsense every single game. I don't know how anyone can root for them. They're a team of cheaters. I will be so happy when every guy on that team is out of the league. So happy.
No they aren't.
And I root for the Spurs because I like the way they play; they have the kind of team that I'd put together if I had a billion dollars.
Futuristic
G-League
The Suns were desperate, and traded for Shaq. Guess Pringles is in trouble.
tradepeja
Starter
Futuristic
G-League
Guess I'd put Kobe, Pau, Odom, Bynum, and the rest of the Lakers if I had a billion bucks...
I didn't stutter. There's no reason for me to not like the Spurs.
Bah; the Spurs deserved to win last year, too. I don't get this nonsense about the Suns being the better team at any point. The Suns have never even been "evenly matched" with the Spurs, let alone the better team, and the stat that tells the real story is this: 4-14. That's the Suns' record in the playoffs against the Spurs since 2003 in games decided by single digits; that's not the sign of two evenly matched teams. That basically means that, if the Suns don't blow the Spurs out, they have no chance.
If it's a three-point game with two minutes to go, you can pretty much put the car note on the Suns losing.
And, besides all that... **** Phoenix.
If it's a three-point game with two minutes to go, you can pretty much put the car note on the Suns losing.
And, besides all that... **** Phoenix.
Dave McNulla
Bench
i get it when people say that the suns might have won if not for those suspensions last season, but i don't get how people say the suns would have won. they lost 3 out of 5 games that diaw and stoudemire played. even in the game they didn't play, suns had an amazing energy that they might not have had without the suspensions.
maybe it's just haters. pretty typical.
maybe it's just haters. pretty typical.
I dunno man. On one hand the Spurs play awesome basketball at times with the passing, defense, movement, open 3 point shooters, etc. But at other times I am just disgusted with all their flopping. I mean dude, like it was mentioned above but did you see the play in the 4th Q where Tony Parker drives and falls on the floor without being touched and they give the foul to Amare? Or when Duncan tripped over his own feet and they called the foul on Shaq?(whose foot was atleast a few inches away from TD) I mean don't get me wrong they're a great team but that just pisses me off to see floppo Ginobili and Parker just fall on the ground without getting touched and winding up with FTs.
tradepeja
Starter
the Spurs are my most disliked team for many, many reasons. Too many to post here. A highlight of a few of them would be: tanking to get Duncan, allowing Bowen to become one of the dirtiest players in league history, the general floppingness of their team, Robert Horry, Parker (okay, I'm just jealous), the CONSTANT complaining from EVERY single member on the team led by Duncan and Flopobili to the 12th player on the bench, and finally, their constant help from the refs.
Maybe the last reason isn't their fault. I guess its not their fault that last year Donaghy and his mob buds had money on the Spurs. It could've gone either way I guess.
Oh, I forgot a reason. Barry's 3 that rimmed out and bounced in 3 years ago in the playoffs. That was ****, lol.
Maybe the last reason isn't their fault. I guess its not their fault that last year Donaghy and his mob buds had money on the Spurs. It could've gone either way I guess.
Oh, I forgot a reason. Barry's 3 that rimmed out and bounced in 3 years ago in the playoffs. That was ****, lol.
I'm not a Spurs fan, and I can't stand Bruce Bowen. But I don't know how someone who likes the Suns can point the finger at Spurs players for flopping. Steve Nash and Raja Bell flop all game long, and so does Diaw (I like both of them, even though Nash plays no defense).
I can appreciate the way the Spurs play basketball, because they are fundamentally sound on both ends of the floor, and they have integrity on both ends. Tim Duncan is one of the best big men - maybe THE best - that I've ever had the privilege of watching. Tony Parker has become a star, Ginobili is versatile, Finley and Barry are clutch (can either of these former dunk contest contenders grab rim anymore?), and Popovich is one of the best coaches in the game, Hack-a-Shaq notwithstanding.
I can understand Suns fans saying that the Suns should have won one of the last four playoff series against the Spurs, but they didn't. And we're talking four years in a row now, home court advantage going to both teams at one point or another, that the Spurs have gotten the best of the Suns. This is not an aberration or a hoax. This is the Spurs proving, several times in a row, that they are capable of beating the Suns in a seven game series.
I can appreciate the way the Spurs play basketball, because they are fundamentally sound on both ends of the floor, and they have integrity on both ends. Tim Duncan is one of the best big men - maybe THE best - that I've ever had the privilege of watching. Tony Parker has become a star, Ginobili is versatile, Finley and Barry are clutch (can either of these former dunk contest contenders grab rim anymore?), and Popovich is one of the best coaches in the game, Hack-a-Shaq notwithstanding.
I can understand Suns fans saying that the Suns should have won one of the last four playoff series against the Spurs, but they didn't. And we're talking four years in a row now, home court advantage going to both teams at one point or another, that the Spurs have gotten the best of the Suns. This is not an aberration or a hoax. This is the Spurs proving, several times in a row, that they are capable of beating the Suns in a seven game series.
What the Suns do or don't do doesn't excuse the Spurs for anything. I didn't see Diaw, Nash, or Bell flopping but I saw Ginobili and Parker flopping in every game. Maybe I missed something. I think taking charges is only a legitimate defensive play when the player is actually in position before the offensive player leaves the ground and the offensive player initiates the contact. That stupid play where the Spurs set a screen and then the ballhandler runs their defender into a screen, bumps into their own teammate on purpose and gets a foul called on the defender -- that is not a real foul. Driving into the lane and jumping into a defender should be an offensive foul and dropping to the floor when there's no contact should be cause for ejection. I'm really not that partial to the Suns, so it's not like I'm intentionally ignoring when they do it. It drives me crazy when Kevin Martin flops too. That's BS basketball. Knowing when you can cheat the refs to get a call may be something that veterans do in the NBA, but it's totally disgraceful. If you can get someone in foul trouble simply by dribbling next to them and then falling, than you can eliminate them from the game. I consider that cheating. I wouldn't call that "integrity". If anyone had integrity in this series it was the Suns for continuing to play their game despite all the BS the Spurs were trying to throw at them. Hack a Shaq? Come on. This is supposedly the best team in the NBA and they have to resort to intentional fouls instead of actually playing defense? Yeah maybe in a "winning is all that matters" frame of mind that's a smart strategy, but it's bad basketball. Integrity to me means winning while playing the game the way it's meant to be played. Referees are there to call fouls when they actually happen, not to be baited into giving your team an unfair advantage.
I guess you have your perception, and that's fine. What I see every time I watch the Spurs is a team that will cheat when they can get away with it and everyone allows them to because of this false perception that they play "the right way" . Just because you play slow doesn't mean you play the right way nor do you deserve to get all the foul calls. In my opinion, the reason the Spurs win so consistently is not because they're more talented than anyone else, it's that they've perfected the art of cheating and getting away with it. I don't deny that Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are talented players. But when they deliberately mislead the referees so they can get favorable calls, I don't care how talented they are I just want them to go away. And Duncan doesn't get a free pass either. All three of them do it. Probably that's what Popovich tells them to do, but it's still on them for bringing that to the court. I don't think I even need to mention Bowen. Everyone knows by know how he plays the game. You can admire them for winning if you want, but this whole "they play the right way" business, I'm just not buying it.
Last edited:
tradepeja
Starter
I didn't read all of it, but your elegant, and frankly quite accurate, description of the spurs reminds me of the recent episode of South Park "Eek, A Penis." In it, Cartman refers to Bell Bellicheck and the "Spygate" scandal to show his students that white people cheat, and thats why they always get ahead.
If only he had used the Spurs....would've fit perfectly.
This is too biased to be taken seriously. The Spurs have only been successful because they've mastered the art of cheating? Really?
I don't think that's the only reason they've been successful, but I do think it's given them the slight advantage that pushes them just a notch above everyone else in the playoffs. Maybe I'm wrong to call it cheating, maybe you could call it "taking what the refs will give you" or "making the calls easier for the refs". My basketball philosophy is to play as if the refs aren'tt there and just let them make the calls they want to make. I don't think that's what the Spurs do at all and that's why I hate watching them.
4cwebb
Starter
I think it would be hard to point out many players in the NBA that play without taking the refs into consideration. Everyone does it, imho. It just seems that the Spurs do it better than most, and I think Parker is slowly taking the baton from Manu as the most demonstrative. He's a great finisher around the basket, but I think he gets too many calls for throwing his body into the defender's space. He's great at "taking" the hit and making the basket, but at least in the Suns series he initiated a fair number of the hits (again imho).
I remember a specific play, on the right elbow, when Ginobili is dribbling the ball with Raja Bell guarding him. He goes to drive left, and Bell jumps in front of him and falls backward on contact. No call. Ginobili gathered himself, took the jumper, and drilled it.
I remember that play so well because I jumped up and screamed at the TV: "That's right! Stay on your feet and play defense! That's right, ref, don't call that BS! Make these fools play D!"
Add in some expletives.
They flop all the time. I feel hypocritical ranting against the flop, being a Kings fan, watching Vlade master it. However, it's become an epidemic, and the refs are buying it like idiots, just because someone's hitting the floor. And the big problem is that someone is going to be seriously hurt one day soon. Flopping is a big problem in the NBA, and it upsets me that it dissuades people from contesting shots because they're better off jumping in the lane to draw an offensive foul.
The Suns are very guilty of flopping. Not to say that the Spurs aren't, but it's egregious with the Suns, in my opinion.
Regarding the Hack-a-Shaq, I totally agree with you that it's a BS move that completely compromises the spirit of the game. But it's a strategy that can be countered by simply putting Shaq on the bench, then we don't have that problem. If Amare would become a more controlled defender, he wouldn't be in foul trouble every time they play the Spurs. That's the only thing that keeps him from going for 40 and 20 with 12 blocks, is that he's held to 30 minutes a game.
But it's still hardly accurate to say that the Spurs have to resort to intentionally fouling in order to win. They haven't played against Shaq in the playoffs the past three years, but they have two titles in that span. And considering the fact that they have beaten the Suns the past four seasons in the playoffs, it's safe to say that they have the Suns number with or without Shaq.
And when it comes down to it, you can disagree on the merits of the Spurs style of play/coaching, but one thing is sure: they can and do defend. They don't totally ignore one side of the floor like D'Antoni's Suns, and that's the major gripe that I have with them. It can make them unwatchable at times, because only Bell and Amare even have any integrity on that end, and Amare isn't a sound defender. He has the tools, but he can't stay out of foul trouble. And Bell plays dirty too often against top tier players (see: clotheslining Kobe in 2006).
We can easily agree to disagree, but there's no doubt that the Suns don't play D, and that's the biggest thing that puts me off about them, and the reason I don't like hearing them compared to the hey-day Kings. I mean, we weren't stalwarts, but we did eventually lead the League in defensive FG %, meaning that we had our merits on that end.
Dave McNulla
Bench
eye of the beholder.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
