[PHX/SAS] 2008 NBA Playoffs Discussion

[Superman]

I'd be willing to bet that Larry Brown didn't want to foul because Kobe could feasibly get a 4-pt play and because Shaq could feasibly get a missed FT w/o inside position. All this stuff is conditional. Another thing in play is that if you don't foul soon enough, you now get 3 FTs as long as the guy is hit in the act.

Well, the Lakers inbounded the ball to Shaq, so there's a chance right away to send him to the line for two, and even if they get the rebound and a tip, you still have time for another possession.

You're right that all of this stuff is conditional. But in the case with the Laker game and with the Suns/Spurs game, I don't see why they wouldn't foul before a shot goes up.

And we're talking about world class athletes who should be able to hold up on fouling if they are going to potentially give up a four point play.

 

[Gargamel]

Well, the Lakers inbounded the ball to Shaq, so there's a chance right away to send him to the line for two, and even if they get the rebound and a tip, you still have time for another possession.

You're right that all of this stuff is conditional. But in the case with the Laker game and with the Suns/Spurs game, I don't see why they wouldn't foul before a shot goes up.

And we're talking about world class athletes who should be able to hold up on fouling if they are going to potentially give up a four point play.

I haven't seen that full play in a few years, but I seem to remember there were about 4-5 seconds that Kobe milked off the clock before the shot. Foul Shaq immediately and he has the chance for 1-2 points on the line; LA can get the rebound on a 2nd miss; LA can foul Ben Wallace if he gets the board; or LA could steal the ball on the inbounds if he makes the 2nd. Lot of things can go wrong. Not trying to argue with you over an old play, just brainstorming, but maybe remaining time is an element in the coach's decison.

An example of letting chips fall would be Riley calling a TO at the end of Gm2 of the 84 Finals to diagram an "insurance" play instead of letting the Celts simply foul. Gerald Henderson stole the ball during the drawn play and scored and they won in OT. LA would've been 3-0 in that series. Riley curses that decision to this day. Best laid plans of mice and men.

But then again, the Pistons probably missed the Finals in 87 on account of not calling a TO.

So I bow out... Fuggedabodit...

 

[piksi]

well Dickie B is there tonight - what do You know

 

[One and Done]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Sarver's a cheapskate.

Every year, he's made cheap moves to stay under the salary cap. Now, his teams window is closing...thanks to a lack of depth that actually got worse this past offseason.

If you've got a championship caliber team thats two bench players away from a title...pony up the dough. Take note, Joe and Gavin.

 

[tradepeja]

God, this was a sad game. I see so much of the old Kings in the Suns that them failing is beginning to be too much of a deja vu.

Dick needs to retire.

 

[Variant]

Man, fourth quarter Nash should have just become selfish, asked for some picks and started taking shots himself. He's the only clutch one on that team.

Instead they ran everything through ... Diaw?? And sometimes Amare who just wanted to take and miss jumpers.

Sheesh. Nash was making just about everything... still the most clutch guy on the team he's just got to take over!

Ah well, missed FT's and that 3rd quarter doomed them anyways I suppose.

 

[BMiller52]

God, this was a sad game. I see so much of the old Kings in the Suns that them failing is beginning to be too much of a deja vu.

Dick needs to retire.

Agreed man. I think this is beginning to be the end of the Suns unless they can win the next 2. Shaq is declining so fast I don't see him being even good or healthy next year. Bell is getting older. Nash is getting older. Amare's the only guy that is going to improve at all IMO. I could see them missing the playoffs next year.

The Spurs on the other hand remind me of MJ's bulls actually. They are just going to continue to be good because Duncan is the best player in the game right now IMO. He has 4 rings, if they win this year that's 5 and he'll be the 3rd best player ever IMO after Jordan and Wilt.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Agreed man. I think this is beginning to be the end of the Suns unless they can win the next 2. Shaq is declining so fast I don't see him being even good or healthy next year. Bell is getting older. Nash is getting older. Amare's the only guy that is going to improve at all IMO. I could see them missing the playoffs next year.

The Spurs on the other hand remind me of MJ's bulls actually. They are just going to continue to be good because Duncan is the best player in the game right now IMO. He has 4 rings, if they win this year that's 5 and he'll be the 3rd best player ever IMO after Jordan and Wilt.

Interesting point. I was rooting for the Suns to begin with, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Spurs win again to further prove Duncan's greatness. I've always loved watching him play, but everyone seems to write him off because he's "boring."

 

[VF21]

I am now even less impressed with Mike D'Antoni than I was before. The difference between Popovich and D'Antoni is stunning.

 

[BMiller52]

Interesting point. I was rooting for the Suns to begin with, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Spurs win again to further prove Duncan's greatness. I've always loved watching him play, but everyone seems to write him off because he's "boring."

Yeah I want Phoenix to win this and I dislike SA but I would rather see them win it than LA or someone like that. If Duncan wins 1 more title he'll get the status of "best player of his generation" and legend status.

 

[RKid]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Sarver's a cheapskate.

Every year, he's made cheap moves to stay under the salary cap. Now, his teams window is closing...thanks to a lack of depth that actually got worse this past offseason.

If you've got a championship caliber team thats two bench players away from a title...pony up the dough. Take note, Joe and Gavin.

You have to give the maloofs credit, they tried to make the kings better every year while they still had the chance to win the title.

Like you said the suns owner on the other hand has been allowing the suns to bleed talent and draft picks since Nash and co. made the WCF's.

If the Nash era in Phoenix ends without a ring Sarver and Pringles are the only ones to blame here.

 

[Kingzrool]

If the Suns had only pulled the trigger on the Artest trade...........

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm not seeing it. I don't think that the Suns are anything like what the Kings used to be... And I'm certainly not rooting for the Suns...

 

[Superman]

I'm not seeing it. I don't think that the Suns are anything like what the Kings used to be... And I'm certainly not rooting for the Suns...

Neither do I. I mean, yeah they're entertaining to watch for most people, and there are some similarities, but I don't think they really compare.

The Suns philosophy for the past three seasons has pretty much been "we don't need to stop anyone because we will outscore them". It works if your goal is to win 55 games a year, but you don't win championships that way. Back in '99, maybe we focused on the offense at the expense of our defense, but once we were considered title contenders, we weren't such a bad defensive team. Not by any stretch the best, but we had integrity on the defensive end.

And Rick Adelman >>>> Mike D'Antoni. Hands down.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This is great!

I may be the only Kings Fan loving this, but bah gawd, I'm loving this! I like Tim Duncan, and I like Manu GI-NO-BLEE, and I like Bruce Bowen (yeah, that's right, I said it: I like Bruce Bowen)... and ****ing hate the way the Suns play. The only thing that I would enjoy more in this year's playoffs than watching San Antonio kick the **** out of Phoenix would be if the gd lakers pulled a Dallas and blew their two game lead to get upset by Denver.

Go Spurs (at least until the Lakers have been eliminated)!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Man, they're ****ing killing Phoenix on that switch; Shaq is getting ate the **** up.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So, is Tim Duncan still the best player on the Spurs?

 

[BMiller52]

So, is Tim Duncan still the best player on the Spurs?

You honestly think he's not??? Come on man Parker's good but he's not as good as Duncan.

 

[Variant]

Depends on how you define "best" I guess. He's still the most valuable however.

 

[AriesMar27]

duncan is still the best player on that team but he just isnt necessary in this series... you just feed the hot hand... in game 1 it was duncan and since then its been parker and manu... they've been scoring at will... even kurt thomas gets easy buckets all game.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Remember how Bibby would always eat the Lakers up? Point guards do well against Shaq, he's terrible on screens.

 

[RKid]

Remember how Bibby would always eat the Lakers up? Point guards do well against Shaq, he's terrible on screens.

Throw in Steve Nash who bibby torched while with the Mavs, and you have the worst pick n roll center and point guard combo in the nba.

 

[sloter]

It looks like Shaq was a downgrade from Shawn Marion...

 

[Gargamel]

Found at RealGM. Gone fishin pic.

 

[creAtivetfh]

The Spurs have that look in their eye. Could this be the first time they win back to back?

 

[Superman]

The Spurs have that look in their eye. Could this be the first time they win back to back?

Not if they keep playing the way they did today.

I know it's never been done before, and the Spurs are probably not the team that it will happen to, but if anyone can get hot and string together four games of lights-out basketball, it's the Suns. Nash and Stoudemire didn't even lead the way today, both had mediocre games. Raja Bell (who I like, contrary to most Kings fans) and Boris Diaw played amazing basketball, and the Suns were cruising from the seven minute mark in the first quarter, if that's possible.

Like Slim, I really don't like the way the Suns play, because I'm not a fan of small ball, shooting quick jumpers, playing no defense, giving up 110 a night because you score 120. I also appreciate (not necessarily "like") the Spurs, because they're versatile and deep, and they play sound, fundamental basketball.

That having been said, I could grow to like the Suns if they played inside-out basketball and showed integrity on defense the way they did today. I mean, it helps when the Spurs can't buy a bucket and your fans show up for you, but still. Holding the defending champs to 86 points after getting the crap beat out of you in the previous game, manhandling them on the glass, blocking shots, forcing turnovers, etc., is impressive. I liked what I saw today, and I don't often say that about the Suns.

 

[vladetomiller]

I think Suns future in this series depends on Boris Diaw, it has come to that. He is the one that has the matchup advantage, games 2 and 3 he bricked big time and here he made the most of it. If he can score then the suns win.

Spurs are a small team, duncan and Oberto are ok. But their problem is the 3 where they play bowen, finley and ginobli. Diaw can post them up all night and get buckets, they tried in the previous game but failed.

Even if the spurs get past the suns, how are they going to defend the hornets, they are athletic and will cause matchup problems.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wait a minute... they actually let Joey Crawford referee a Spurs playoff game?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

 

[6th]

Wow! The Suns handed it to the Spurs on a silver platter.