Peja Stojakovic: King For Life?

I am more conflicted about Peja than I have been about any player in the 20 year history of the Kings.

One night he's doing it all, grabbing boards, making shots, driving the lane, and actually looking like the All-Star player we so need him to be...

Then, the next night, he virtually phones his performance in. He watches rebounds that he could easily have grabbed be taken by shorter guys in worse position on the court simply because he doesn't try for them - for whatever reason. He puts up airballs, he bounces shots off the side of the backboard, he doesn't want to take the ball inside, and he generally acts like he really doesn't want to be out there.

I have, for the past 4 years, had VF21's Rule of Peja Basketball. It basically says that on any given night, the best you can hope for from Peja is TWO good quarters. And, for the most part, the rule has unfortunately proven to be true much more often than not.

When Peja is playing to the best of his ability, he is a true joy to watch. I have said many times that his rainbow three from about three feet beyond the arc is one of the prettiest things I can remember seeing. Up, up and away...and nothing but net on the other end. Something to warm the heart of any Kings fan.

Peja is an enigma. IF - and that's a big if - he could consistently live up to his potential, I would have no problem with the Maloofs offering him a really GOOD contract because he would be worth it.

Right now, however, 6 years after he first came to the Kings, we're still hoping he'll eventually live up to his potential. Think about it.

If you're breeding horses for the Kentucky Derby, you look first at potential. Then, however, you have to start considering results. If a horse does well in some of the qualifying races, you think about actually getting him in shape for the Triple Crown series. One you get him to the big show, however, it all changes. If he doesn't do well in the pressure of the Derby, you might or might not enter him in the Preakness. If he also disappears in the Preakness, you really have to think long and hard - potential or not - about entering him in the Belmont. If you do, and he still fails to perform adequately, then you really have to start understanding that potential or not, this horse just might not be the winner you were hoping he could be.

Peja just might end up being like that horse. He has a lot of potential, he does one thing VERY WELL but he cannot go the distance. At what point do you decide to sell the horse and cut your losses?
 
andjel said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=fanball-bucksreddreceivestwo&prov=fanball&type=lgns

It can be argued whether Pedja deserves max deal or not, but it seems that what is the reasonable sum has been answered.

That seems like alot of money on just Redd I guess that is the market value. Since the cap has gone up and max salaries have gone down. We are going to see more max salaries in the future for other players. Expect Ray Allen and possiblily Tyson Chandler get the same deal
 
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.
 
piksi said:
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.

billups? not the best but hes still a shooter
 
piksi said:
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.


Dallas got plenty of shooter in the last few years. Did they go anywhere?
 
piksi said:
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.
Funny, Rip Hamilton may be the games best mid-ranged shooter.
 
piksi said:
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.

On the contrary, shooting is the thing which every 40 yr old in his backyard can do. Its a nice skill, but shooting may never have won an NBA championship (can't speak to lesser leagues), as in EVER. Shooters are complimentary players. They are Rip Hamilton, or Byron Scott. And its frequently enough just to have a few roleplayers with the skill ala a Kerr or Horry. The heart, the players that matter, are the guys who do the other things. Championship teams are led by just about anything BUT shooters. The last time a guy associated with shooting led a champion was Larry Bird, and of course the trick there is he was so much MORE than a shooter -- if all he had done was shoot, Magic would have seven rings and Bird zero. Before that...even in the wacky 70's, home of the mediocre champions during the two league era, maybe Rick Barry on a fluke? And Barry too a great creative player that was much more than just a shooter.

Shooting is passive. Its prone to going away at odd times. Someone who is oriented out on the perimeter to shoot is much less likely to be able to create shots for his teammates. Many if not most shooters are softies who either learned to shoot from outside because they disliked contact, or learned to dislike contact because they shoot from outside and are not used to it. Its certainly not a skill that in and of itself is worth paying somebody maximum money over. A shooter is never going to lead you anywhere, unless that is just one of many weapons he possesses (in which case he's not really a shooter, but a full fledged all around stud).
 
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piksi said:
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.

Actually, I'd say learning how to play in the post is harder. At every level of organized basketball, there are great shooters. There are far less great post players and tons of guys who talk about developing a post game, but never coming close to it.
 
sloter said:
I don't get it: Miller can't be traded so that Bibby would be effective... But what makes Bibby less expendable than Pedja ?
Bibby is less expendable than Stojakovic because Stojakovic is less essential to Bibby's offense than the other way around. I cite as an example the high pick-and-roll play that Bibby executes with Stojakovic: there aren't many PG's in the league that Stojakovic could run that consistently with, simply because there aren't many PG's in the league who can shoot as well as Bibby can. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say that Bibby could run that play with just "anybody," but I'd be willing to wager that it'd be a lot easier to find another SF that could run that play with Bibby than another PG that could run it with Stojakovic.

And, Bibby creates more scoring opportunities for Stojakovic in general, and if you don't believe that, compare the number of shots Stojakovic gets compared to when our other PG's are in there. The way I see it, Stojakovic's relationship to the team is more parasitic than symbiotic, which makes him, in my opinion, the most expendable of our "core."
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Bibby is less expendable than Stojakovic because Stojakovic is less essential to Bibby's offense than the other way around. I cite as an example the high pick-and-roll play that Bibby executes with Stojakovic: there aren't many PG's in the league that Stojakovic could run that consistently with, simply because there aren't many PG's in the league who can shoot as well as Bibby can. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say that Bibby could run that play with just "anybody," but I'd be willing to wager that it'd be a lot easier to find another SF that could run that play with Bibby than another PG that could run it with Stojakovic.

And, Bibby creates more scoring opportunities for Stojakovic in general, and if you don't believe that, compare the number of shots Stojakovic gets compared to when our other PG's are in there. The way I see it, Stojakovic's relationship to the team is more parasitic than symbiotic, which makes him, in my opinion, the most expendable of our "core."

lol
 
Was that meant to be a retort? I thought he was just LOL-ing over the concept of Peja's parasitic relationship with the team... I mean c'mon, picture a wasp with Peja's face laying its eggs in an unsuspecting grub... no, really, picture it!
~~
 
Alacron said:
Was that meant to be a retort? I thought he was just LOL-ing over the concept of Peja's parasitic relationship with the team... I mean c'mon, picture a wasp with Peja's face laying its eggs in an unsuspecting grub... no, really, picture it!
~~

Thanks for that.

Really.
 
Bricklayer said:
On the contrary, shooting is the thing which every 40 yr old in his backyard can do.

So is rebounding and passing and everything else if You want to look at it that way
 
piksi said:
Shooting is hardest to learn and it requires most of the talent.

If Pistons had a shooter they still would be champs.

I agree that its hardest to learn, but of course all the aspects are equally important.
 
Yoda said:
In his case, it is not what you do, but who you know. ;)

That is always the case and Steve Kerr hit some big big shots for the Bulls and for the Spurs. While he was nowhere near the reason for winning - his part in it was crucial
 
Shooting in itself is not a hard thing to learn. It's getting to your spots and having the mental fortitude to make shots when the pressures on. That separates the backyard swishers from NBA players.

Steve Kerr: 5 rings as a role player. If that doesn't clue you into the role Peja should be playing, I don't know what will.
 
Packt said:
Shooting in itself is not a hard thing to learn. It's getting to your spots and having the mental fortitude to make shots when the pressures on. That separates the backyard swishers from NBA players.

Steve Kerr: 5 rings as a role player. If that doesn't clue you into the role Peja should be playing, I don't know what will.

if it is so easy to learn why isn't G Wallace an all star ?

And we were talking about shooting and not about Pedja being a role player or not.
 
piksi said:
if it is so easy to learn why isn't G Wallace an all star ?

And we were talking about shooting and not about Pedja being a role player or not.

Yes, we are talking about shooting, and yes its something that can be learn. Not easy but not incredibly hard. Shooting is something you can learn...a perfect example is somebody like Karl Malone and Chris Webber. Both were belove average shooter when they came into the league and with some hard work they became decent shooter(45% or above). On the other hand...skills like rebounding and passing require somewhat innate abilty and effort. Something that Peja has yet to demonstrate consistently. If you think shooting is such a prize posession then how come somebody like the dallas mavericks has yet to win a ring? Dirk is as good of a shooter as Peja is if not better and they have plenty of shooters and where have they been? Look at the spurs and and the Piston. Each has one or two pure shooter at most and yet they consistently win where we cannot.
 
And, Bibby creates more scoring opportunities for Stojakovic in general, and if you don't believe that, compare the number of shots Stojakovic gets compared to when our other PG's are in there. The way I see it, Stojakovic's relationship to the team is more parasitic than symbiotic, which makes him, in my opinion, the most expendable of our "core."

Parasitic? Now there's a word with negative connotations.

As for Peja needing Bibby, I'd point to the 00-01 season vs the 01-02 season. Stojakovic posted almost identical numbers with Williams as he did with Bibby. More than that, Webber and Peja's two man game during that time was the very definition of symbiotic. Webber got open jumpers on the switch and was freed from double teams while Peja racked up layups and open threes.

Yes, Peja needs someone to get him the ball in a position to score. That's a point guards job. He might not get the same looks with other PGs in the game because neither of the Kings backups are really point guards. House & Jackson are undersized shooting guards.

I really could care less if Peja is traded this summer. (For that matter I don't care if every player on the team is dealt and I'm approaching the point of not caring if this franchise leaves town.) But the idea that Peja's value is discounted because he needs someone to pass him the ball is ridiculous. If that's the approach to who needs to be traded, then Miller must be just as expendable since he also can't create his own shot, lacks a post game and in general gets his points on open jumpers when another player kicks it out to him.

Steve Kerr: 5 rings as a role player. If that doesn't clue you into the role Peja should be playing, I don't know what will.

I see. The Kings starting small forward, and probably their biggest trade asset at this point should be averaging under five shots a game? He should be playing 18 mpg and putting up 6 points, 1 rebound and 2 assists?

And for the record, Steve Kerr's playoff numbers, ALL of them with the exception of FT% (1% higher) are lower than his regular season numbers. Granted, Kerr hit the biggest shot he ever needed to hit, the Game 6 winner in Chicago, but outside of that game and that 12 point effort in San Antonio against the Mavs, his playoff stats are underwhelming.

Steve Kerr is not Robert Horry. ESPN could run a 10 minute montage of all of Horry's game changing or winning plays. I wonder if Kerr even played 10 minutes during the 99 Finals? He played 20 minutes in the 2003 finals, and in only four of the six games. In two of those he scored NO points. His highlight was a six point output in Game 5.
 
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