Peace Out Wells ...

[Kings113]

Hey, I'm just saying what happened in those series. That's clearly part of why Bibby struggled. In the Sonics and Spurs series, he also was tired from not having much spelling because of not having a decent back-up at least for most or all of the last two seasons, and played way too many minutes on the year. He had a bad foot in the Sonics series as well, happened in the at Phoenix or at Utah game just before the playoffs, but he still tried to play.

 

[nbrans]

Hey, I'm just saying what happened in those series. That's clearly part of why Bibby struggled. In the Sonics and Spurs series, he also was tired from not having much spelling because of not having a decent back-up at least for most or all of the last two seasons, and played way too many minutes on the year.

There are lots of players out there who play more minutes than Bibby and who play on both ends of the floor, unlike Bibby. I just don't think it's an excuse. He's been bad. The effort hasn't been there -- it would be one thing if he tried really hard in other areas and his shot just wasn't falling, but he's been lackluster in every area.

 

[SacTownKid]

And not to mention that the team has made the BIGGEST moves at the deadline the last two years. As you could imagine, it can create somewhat of an unstable environment.

 

[Kings113]

Well, it's just been obvious that those things have effected him. He indeed hasn't been good.

 

[nbrans]

Well, it's just been obvious that those things have effected him. He indeed hasn't been good.

It's not at all obvious. It's possible that those are some of the factors, but it's also possible that he just sucked and his effort wasn't there. Impossible to know unless you're inside his head.

 

[Kings113]

The defense certainly has, and I think he's played too many minutes the last two seasons without a decent back-up there to spell him. Versus the Wolves it was definitely the defense of Sprewell, which changed the series. As before he torched Dallas, and actually had B-Jax until February, plus had Doug to run the point and handle the ball and Vlade/Webb/Brad to do similar things.

I doubt it on the latter. That'd surprise me about Bibby if so.

 

[Kings2805]

Here are stats to prove Bibby’s clutch reputation isn’t as great as some might think. I say he hasn’t done much since 01-02 against the Lakers. He has not been clutch for the past 4 postseasons where clutch is defined.

Year 02-03: Pts/gm--FG%--3pt%

Regular Season: 15.9 .470 .410

Post Season: 12.7 .422 .282


Year 03-04:

Regular Season: 18.4 .450 .392

Post Season: 20.00 .429 .436


Year 04-05:

Regular Season: 19.6 .443 .360

Post Season: 19.6 .391 .217


Year 05-06:

Regular Season: 21.1 .432 .386

Post Season: 16.7 .348 .346



Regular Season Averages (past 4 seasons)
18.75 .448 .387

Post Seasons Averages (past 4 seasons)

17.25 .398 .320


Differences in totals: -1.5gm -.05% -.067%

My definition of clutch is a person who makes shots when they matter, or raises the level of their game. I only did offensive stats because being clutch involves scoring, but Bibbys scoring(shooting%) has gone down in the postseason 4 years in a row compared to his regular season totals.

 

[Kings113]

You can be clutch defensively as well. Because you have to concentrate on what your man is doing in a heated atmosphere and are counted on to prevent him from hitting that crucial shot or pass.

But with Bibby obviously it's rare to none he makes a clutch defensive play. Though did vs. the Spurs in that game 3, the steal.

I don't doubt that he's regressed to a solid/good degree in most of the playoffs since the Laker series.

 

[SacTownKid]

Doesn't just about everbody's stats go down in the playoffs? Compare him to some other players of his ilk, I'd be interested to see the numbers.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

bibby doesn't have that dominant forward or center to suck in defenses so he can operate freely...

 

[kennadog]

I think your stats are misleading or at least need more development. Since the Kings have never made it to the rings, that means they ultimately lose. And the deeper you go, the tougher your opponent, usually. And some seasons there were more playoff games than others. Those stats don't take any of that into account. As a matter of fact it would take more complicated stat analysis than I'm capable of. (Darn, Mom, where are you when I need you?)

 

[Bricklayer]

I actually think those stats are relatively clean.

Bibby IS clutch, and has hit dozens of big shots in the interim. But his overall playoff performances since the 01-02 series have been erratic at best. Was also the last time he had the chance to work with a dominant big man of course.

The apparent lesson not being that Bibby has suddenly become a choker, but that he can be shut down and taken away if he is forced into too prominent an offensive role.

 

[kennadog]

Well, regression statistics are supposed to help determine true causal relationships. It might indicate that. I do agree that that was Bibby's best playoff series and none have quite matched it. But that was just my "impression."

 

[GoGoGadget]

A large, and valuable, part of being clutch is the willingness to take those shots and not JUST the ability to make them.

Has Mike's playoff performance dropped? Yes.

Have opposing defenses focused on Mike in the last few years' playoffs? Yes.

Should he be our #1 option? No.

But he's still clutch.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Well, regression statistics are supposed to help determine true causal relationships. It might indicate that. I do agree that that was Bibby's best playoff series and none have quite matched it. But that was just my "impression."

Good application of Regression Stats BUT regression stats in genreal ASSUME a single causal factor. In Bibby's case that is just very, very misleading. Look at WHO he was playing with, HOW defenses have changed in their aprach to him and then the min played are really a less likely contribuitng factor.

Teams beat up on Bibby beceause they CAN. When he was on the floor with 5 scoring/passing threats from all over the court AND he was the second or third option teams could not afford to presuer him. Now things are different. Every coanch in the NBA knew last season that presure on Bibby forced lesser shooters/passers to handle the ball.

 

[LA King Fan II]

All i know is in the earlier 21st century all that mattered were those pressure filled games against the Lakers. The ONLY King who showed up every time as a threat and "non-choker" was Bibby.

I am willing to forgive and let slide all else in retrospect, because those games were absolute showcases for who had huevos and who didn't.

Get him a big guy and a backup as good as a healthy Jamaal Tinsley and I believe he will deliver.

 

[Kings113]

I think if we do get Tinsley, he'd be able to stay healthy because he's in a back-up/limited role for the year. I like the guy a lot, he just hasn't been able to stay healthy the last two seasons.

 

[hammystyle]

All i know is in the earlier 21st century all that mattered were those pressure filled games against the Lakers. The ONLY King who showed up every time as a threat and "non-choker" was Bibby.

I am willing to forgive and let slide all else in retrospect, because those games were absolute showcases for who had huevos and who didn't.

Get him a big guy and a backup as good as a healthy Jamaal Tinsley and I believe he will deliver.

I'm not willing to forgive and let all else slide at all, I expect a lot more out of Bibby than what he's done the last couple of years (in the playoffs). Its not like he led us to a title and we're in a grace period. We're trying to reclimb the mountain and he needs to step up as much as anyone.

Although its kind of obvious I really think the more offensive, defensive, and backup help we can get him the better he will be. I think its similar to Chauncey Billups who's an MVP candidate when surrounded by skilled and talented guys, but who would struggle when he's clearly the #1 guy. Petrie's putting together a pretty varied attack with a lot more options than what we've had the past couple of years. We may not have a Webber, Divac combo down low, but we will have guys who can create their own shots (something we've never had) and in today's game that might be more important than anything. No matter what though, when we get to the postseason Mr. Bibby really will have a lot to prove again. 01-02 is a long time ago.