PDA

[Chubbs]

I wonder if most who are calling him out right now would say it in front of him.. crown downtown has a lot of room in their bus...

You know what... 29 other teams missed on Lopez. 29 other teams missed on Withey.

People are discrediting all the good he's actually done as a GM.

I think a decent argument could be made they've just treaded water the last year and half. Lost IT and Tyreke for nothing, got Rudy and DC. Is that a step up? Questionable. The rest is rather inconsequential. The entire bench was PDA acquired, and there's not an impact player in the whole bunch. It's the biggest weakness on the team, and they are all his finds.

Are we really more talented? If so, not relative to the rest of the league. Maybe relative to our typical low standards, but the league, particularly the west, is getting better and better, and more talented. We are still trying to catch up.

We can praise PDA at some point if the wins actually come (and he's around to see it). But they haven't. Not at all.

 

[peacelate]

The last year under the Maloofs, the team was 19-34 through 2/12 while trying to lose and sabotage the team.

Kings are 18-34 this year under Pete who is trying to win.

Pete/Mullin have been an embarrassing failure. Simple as that.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I wonder if most who are calling him out right now would say it in front of him.. crown downtown has a lot of room in their bus...

You know what... 29 other teams missed on Lopez. 29 other teams missed on Withey.

People are discrediting all the good he's actually done as a GM.

Over at realgm skater and I were infuriated they didn't give Withey a better look. They had two shots to grab him. Here you had a budget big to compliment our bloating at the time in Hayes, Thompson, Landry, Cousins, PPat. Assuming some deals got done. But even some of us non professionals were all ready annoyed.

 

[206Fan]

Over at realgm skater and I were infuriated they didn't give Withey a better look. They had two shots to grab him. Here you had a budget big to compliment our bloating at the time in Hayes, Thompson, Landry, Cousins, PPat. Assuming some deals got done. But even some of us non professionals were all ready annoyed.

Withey hasn't done anything as a pro. He's a FA this year. He'd be a good back up C

 

[Iced Espresso]

Withey hasn't done anything as a pro. He's a FA this year. He'd be a good back up C

No its just you have a budget big to develop behind the clutter. A cheap guy who has defensive potential and a decent IQ, low risk gamble in the second. Now assuming you trim the fat later, and he has had a year or two to develop, that's the type of guy who can end up as a steal for a second rounder. Let him go twice. Now it's not a big deal or anything, but I'm just asking for a little insight of down the road thinking on how to save a buck or two and to develop with patience.

Honestly is just a small gripe in the big scheme of things.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I believe he has been loyal to Vivek and I think if Malone was really his call he'd be out the door with Corbin, so MAYBE, MAYBE, he should get some credit for Karl. Especially if the terms are favorable. It is mind boggling when rookie coaches make more.

But seriously, any major misstep from here and I'll call for his head like most.

 

[Dime Dropper]

This thread is an absolute joke.

Taking homerism to unprecedented levels.

 

[kupman]

Now looking forward I don't see how George Karl won't improve things. He has won too much wherever he's gone. But PDA's attempt to re-mollusk and latch onto Karl's success will hold no more water with me than his attempt to latch onto Boogie the same way. He's a small man in more ways than stature.

Isn't that a good thing? I mean, I hope he does that here as well.

 

[captain bill]

He's done very little worthy of respect.

I don't want to hear about the Boogie resigning nonsense. That's pathetic wannabe crap trying to cling on to a big star like a mollusk and take credit for it. The whole bleeping organization wanted to do that before PDA even existed except as basement troll in Denver. Vivek, Shaq, PDA had no clout. They didn't resign Boogie for PDA. If he's lucky he got the question right when he geeked out with Vivek and aced the D&D session that served as hiring interview.

He made a single trade, WITH HIS OLD DENVER MENTOR, for Rudy Gay. Its the only thing he's proven he could do. Trade with a guy he knows who wants to dump a contract on him. His big move causing renewed adulation amongst those determined to be pleased is hiring a coaching candidate so obvious that 99% of fans would have made the same call, AND WHO AGAIN IS HIS OLD BOSS FROM DENVER. What an innovator with leaguewide knowledge we have. Guess you don't get out much when you're in a Denver basement. We have a less talented roster than we did when he arrived, multiple former Kings who he traded away are playing major roles on playoff contenders this year in New Orleans, Portland, Phoenix, Toronto. He fired one of the most respected young coaches in the game, because PDA's a wannabe and couldn't handle being ignored by somebody who likely had contempt for him. And most of all, the team has not advanced one bit under his tenure. It HAD advanced a bit solely through Michael Malone's work, as our morons painfully found out. But of course Michael Malone wasn't hired by Pete. He was just fired by him out of insecurity. Powered by an emergent DeMarcus Cousins far greater than the DeMarcus Cousins that Pete inherited -- because DeMarcus Cousins wasn't drafted by Pete either -- he has somehow made the rest of the roster and environment so toxic that we haven't gotten one game better. We're exactly where we were 2 years ago with the Maloofs trying to steal the team and Keith bleepin' Smart as coach.

So no, excuse me, but no.


Now looking forward I don't see how George Karl won't improve things. He has won too much wherever he's gone. But PDA's attempt to re-mollusk and latch onto Karl's success will hold no more water with me than his attempt to latch onto Boogie the same way. He's a small man in more ways than stature.

Brick you're very smart and I respect you a lot. I frequently disagree with you but I listen to what you say, and you've changed my mind on several occasions. So I am going to ask you something, not to be snarky, but in the hopes that you thoughtfully consider it:

Are you a poker player? Because the sum of the moves that Pete has made look an awful lot to me like a very crafty poker player who makes a lot of bad or questionable moves in order to set up better ones down the line, and who also leaks a lot of information (a significant amount truthful), but ultimately hides what his end game is. In his Reddit AMA, he says something interesting: that the Rudy trade at first appeared as a dead end, but later they were able to make it work (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24vs1u/iam_pete_dalessandro_sacramento_kings_gm_ama/). I really think he made the Tyreke trade in an effort to reposition himself to get Rudy, and it was a great move in that context.

I think you can also look at the Karl signing in the same way: he clearly has a good relationship with George from their time together in Denver. I don't think it's unreasonable that after PDA got hired, he told Vivek that his plan was not just to get Gay, but to get Karl as well. Maybe the hypothesis that they fired Malone in a panic move to try to get cover from the fans while Cousins was out is correct - but if Pete had a line on George, is that really something to rake him over the coals for? I like Malone a lot and think he was some good potential, but you don't have to stick to a young and unproven guy just because he showed some good things over 15 games when you can pick up a HOFer instead.

Pete relied on his contacts and insider NBA knowledge to assemble an elite starting 5 and pick up a HOF head coach. We only today see the end result of his moves. Given that his payoff moves have been related to his long-standing connections with well-reputed people in the league, what is your basis for assuming that this all happened by accident and was not planned in advance?

 

[kupman]

This thread is an absolute joke.

Taking homerism to unprecedented levels.

This thread:


" Taking homerism to unprecedented levels" versus "haters gonna hate"

LOL

 

[Bricklayer]

Isn't that a good thing? I mean, I hope he does that here as well.

Didn't mean it in a bad way. Meant it in a "if history is any guide, where Karl goes (regular season) wins will follow" sort of way. Hence if we start winning more here, its because of George Karl (just as I believe and our evidence this season strongly suggests we were winning because of Michael Malone this season). Good coaches can get a lot out of whatever talent they are given.

 

[funkykingston]

In 2012-2013 under the coaching of Keith Smart and the ownership of the Maloofs and the spector of sale and/or relocation, the Kings won 28 games.
In 2013-2014 with new owners and a new GM and a goal of overhauling the roster, the Kings again won 28 games
In 2014-2015 with a coach and GM hired by Ranadive and a roster almost completely changed/reshaped by D'Alessandro the Kings are on pace to win, wait for it, 28 games.

They WERE on pace to win substantially more games under Mike Malone to start this season before being inexplicably fired in what has to be one of the biggest miscalculations by any front office ever, from pretty much any standpoint (PR, class, wins/losses, team morale etc). George Karl was available last offseason. He very likely would have been available this upcoming offseason. By firing Malone when they did they torpedoed this season, treated Corbin horribly, damaged the team morale and play and very clearly upset their best player and centerpiece.

I think it's funny that some are lauding the decision to not retain Tyreke at $11 million because he's "overpaid" while simultaneously praising trading for Rudy Gay who is making over $ 8 million dollars more this season and signed an extension that will continue to have him be paid more than Evans. Neither one of them has ever made an all-star team. I like Rudy (and I liked Tyreke) but let's not make him more than he is.

The Philadelphia 76ers have a better record than the Kings since Malone's firing.

The Kings bench is statistically and to the eye test the worst in the league.

Neither Ben McLemore nor Nik Stauskas made the Rising Stars challenge. Stauskas wouldn't crack the top 10 and likely the top 15 consensus best rookies this year despite being drafted in large part because he was more "NBA ready"

Carl Landry, Ramon Sessions and Derrick Williams have not performed at a level commiserate with their salaries and not one of them is a good fit with the one player the Kings FO/ownership claims to be building around.

So yeah, I have a LOT of questions about PDA.

I'm very happy the move was made to hire George Karl and right the ship but doesn't change the fact that Malone's firing and the aftermath has been handled about as poorly as it possibly could have been. To me applauding D'Alessandro for this move is akin to watching a landlord accidentally set his building on fire, watching it burn while explaining why it wasn't his fault and then get congratulated for finally calling the fire department long after all his tenants started screaming at him to do so.

 

[VF21]

We might never know until after he's gone. Petrie didn't admit his hands were tied by the Maloofs until after the new regime took over.

Actually, I don't think Petrie ever came out and said that. That's one book I would love to see written, however.

 

[VF21]

Some of you just don't get it. I'm honestly to the point where I think some of these "members" are plants.

Let's go through the list of decisions PDA has made. I will rate them on a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being a horrible decision, 5 being a meh decision or a no brainer decision, 10 being a great decision)

1. Drafted Ben McLemore with the 7th pick (7 - he was one of the best available players who feel to us and has been showing good progress this year. He looked to be a good fit with Cousins and Evans going forward. However, there have been players who have already shown to be more valuable that were drafted after him.)
2. Drafted Ray McCallum with the 36th pick (8 - he's been a very productive 2nd round pick for us and will likely get better with time. Withey at the time made sense as a backup for Cousins and he has played well.)
3. Trading Tyreke Evans for Greivis Vasquez and a 2nd round pick (2 - traded a player who is averaging 17 - 6 - 6 with good defense, size, youth, and athleticism for a backup PG who plays poor defense and a 2nd round pick. Major talent bleed.)
4. Sign Carl Landry for $27 mil/4 years (1 - when needing a defensive big to pair with Cousins, we sign Landry who is redundant and small. Not to mention we overpaid for him and decided to keep him on the books for 4 years.)
5. Extended Demarcus Cousins to a max deal (5 - no brainer. Any semi-competent GM would have made this move.)
6. Trading a 2nd round pick for Mbah a Moute (5 - meh trade. Brought in a defensive role player for our defensive coach.)
7. Trading Mbah a Moute for Derrick Williams (6 - bit of a no risk trade that brought in a young SF to prove he could take over the starting job.)
8. Trading Greivis Vasquez, Chuck Hayes, Patrick Patterson, John Salmons for Rudy Gay, Quincy Acy, Aaron Gray (9 - took a limited risk on a trade that could have netted us a big reward. Gay was revitalized here and has shown to be a good robin to Cousins' batman.)
9. Trade Marcus Thornton for Jason Terry and Reggie Evans (5 - meh trade that just moved around ending contracts and left us with less depth at the guard spots.)
10. Drafted Nik Stauskas with the 8th pick (5 - the jury is still out on the pick. However, I personally was okay with taking Stauskas where we took him. I think he will be a good player in this league)
11. Trade Isaiah Thomas for a TPE (2 - it was very likely somebody was going to drop a decent size contract for Thomas. Probably one we wouldn't want to match. Why in the hell would you wait until the offseason when you have no leverage? Trade him at the deadline where you can get some value for him. Another major talent bleed.)
12. Sign Darren Collison to 3 year MLE (8 - Collison has looked good and has been willing to play as a team in order to feed Cousins and Gay. His deal is good value as well)
13. Sign Ramon Sessions for $4.25 mil/2 years (3 - has been an absolute disaster while here. I would rate this lower, but the fact that the deal isn't that big keeps this at a 3)
14. Sign Omri Casspi to Veteran Minimum (5 - no brainer deal)
15. Sign Eric Moreland to Veteran Minimum (5 - no brainer deal)
16. Extend Rudy Gay for $40 mil/3 years (5 - no brainer deal. It's hard to lure big time free agents to Sacramento and Gay showed he was compatible with Cousins. Easy decision)
17. Fire Mike Malone as Head Coach (-3 - I know I said I would keep it on a 1-10 scale but this decision was just too bad. After going 9-6 with a healthy Cousins with the 2nd toughest schedule at the time, Cousins gets sick and we drop to 11-13. From there, Malone is fired. We finally had a coach who had gotten through to the players, and the players wanted to go out every night and battle for him. He had a great relationship with Cousins, and they both had each others back. It's unheard of to fire a coach who was performing so well. Complete incompetence and most likely one of the dumbest decisions I will see made by a FO in my life.)
18. Promote Tyrone Corbin as Head Coach (1 - So not only did you make one of the worst decisions a FO has ever made, but you had no plan to replace Malone with a competent coach? Yikes! Thanks for throwing the season down the drain, breaking up chemistry that was being developed by our team, and making us look like a joke so free agents will not want to come here (or make it harder to keep current players in town).)
19. Fire Tyrone Corbin as Head Coach (5 - no brainer. He lost the team awhile ago and was going through the motions. Had absolutely no success coaching this team and deserved to be fired)
20. Hire George Karl as Head Coach (5 - no brainer, and frankly, we're all a little upset why this didn't happen right after Malone was fired.
21. Intangibles - how they have conducted business and represented our franchise (1 - I don't think there is a worse GM in the league at conducting himself in a professional way. All of the lies, leaked rumors, backstabbing has made this franchise look like a circus. Just think about how other players, fans, and the public view our team? We look like children to them, and we have our FO to thanks for that. Not only do we look like children, but we look like dumb children who want to build a team around pace and offense when you have a team with Cousins and Gay on it. Their intellect, vision, and professionalism are all lacking. Therefore, they earn a well deserved 1.)

If you want to take strict average it comes out to 4.3, but obviously there are decisions that have more weight than others. For instance, a 1st round draft pick decision would have more importance than a 2nd round pick decision, but I'm not going to go through and arbitrarily assign weights to each decision (I've already arbitrarily assigned my own ratings for each decision).

The good?
Draftng McLemore
Drafting McCallum
Trading for Gay
Signing Collison

The bad?
Getting barely anything for Evans
Signing Carl Landry
Getting virtually nothing for Thomas
Firing Coach Malone
Promoting Corbin as Head Coach
Intangibles, professionalism, etc.

The rest of the decisions are meh or no brainers. Nothing that should really be scorned and nothing that should really be praised.

I think (along with the majority of posters here) that the FO's bad decisions have certainly outweighed the good ones. Therefore, we would prefer a new GM. Make sense?

Arguably the most complete summary of what PDA has done since becoming part of the Kings that I've seen anywhere. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I don't necessarily agree with all your assessments (I think, for example, it's been shown that the demand for IT was nowhere what was thought), but you've provided a very good basis for future discussions.

 

[funkykingston]

In his Reddit AMA, he says something interesting: that the Rudy trade at first appeared as a dead end, but later they were able to make it work (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24vs1u/iam_pete_dalessandro_sacramento_kings_gm_ama/). I really think he made the Tyreke trade in an effort to reposition himself to get Rudy, and it was a great move in that context.

First off, that requires the assumption that Rudy Gay is a better player than Tyreke Evans. I like Gay but numbers-wise they are very close. Gay is a slightly better (but not good) 3 point shooter, Evans is a slightly better defender and while both post very similar rebounding numbers, the fact that Evans does it from the guard spot makes those a lot more valuable. As I mentioned, neither guy has made an all-star game, neither guy has a game that truly compliments Boogie and while possibly not a completely fair indicator the reality is that both the Grizzlies and Raptors improved dramatically directly after trading Rudy Gay.

But the other interesting thing is this. The Kings didn't HAVE to trade Tyreke to get Gay. Salmons, Patterson, Hayes and Jimmer (instead of Vasquez) gets that deal done just the same. In fact, the Kings spent almost the same money on Landry and Williams last season as Tyreke earned. This year those two guys actually cost the Kings significantly more than what Evans is being paid. I'd rather have Tyreke and a bit of cash to sign another bench player than Derrick Williams and Carl Landry.

I think you can also look at the Karl signing in the same way: he clearly has a good relationship with George from their time together in Denver. I don't think it's unreasonable that after PDA got hired, he told Vivek that his plan was not just to get Gay, but to get Karl as well. Maybe the hypothesis that they fired Malone in a panic move to try to get cover from the fans while Cousins was out is correct - but if Pete had a line on George, is that really something to rake him over the coals for? I like Malone a lot and think he was some good potential, but you don't have to stick to a young and unproven guy just because he showed some good things over 15 games when you can pick up a HOFer instead.

If that were the case then they should have fired Malone and hired Karl last offseason. Or at the very least hired Karl immediately after Malone was canned instead of putting Corbin through the wringer. The fact that they didn't tells me this move was completely reactionary and not planned. PDA and/or Vivek actually believed that removing Malone would improve the team. And only when things got this bad, fan sentiment got this vitriolic and likely when STH renewal rates started dropping did they make the move for Karl.

 

[206Fan]

Some of you just don't get it. I'm honestly to the point where I think some of these "members" are plants.

Let's go through the list of decisions PDA has made. I will rate them on a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being a horrible decision, 5 being a meh decision or a no brainer decision, 10 being a great decision)

1. Drafted Ben McLemore with the 7th pick (7 - he was one of the best available players who feel to us and has been showing good progress this year. He looked to be a good fit with Cousins and Evans going forward. However, there have been players who have already shown to be more valuable that were drafted after him.)
2. Drafted Ray McCallum with the 36th pick (8 - he's been a very productive 2nd round pick for us and will likely get better with time. Withey at the time made sense as a backup for Cousins and he has played well.)
3. Trading Tyreke Evans for Greivis Vasquez and a 2nd round pick (2 - traded a player who is averaging 17 - 6 - 6 with good defense, size, youth, and athleticism for a backup PG who plays poor defense and a 2nd round pick. Major talent bleed.)
4. Sign Carl Landry for $27 mil/4 years (1 - when needing a defensive big to pair with Cousins, we sign Landry who is redundant and small. Not to mention we overpaid for him and decided to keep him on the books for 4 years.)
5. Extended Demarcus Cousins to a max deal (5 - no brainer. Any semi-competent GM would have made this move.)
6. Trading a 2nd round pick for Mbah a Moute (5 - meh trade. Brought in a defensive role player for our defensive coach.)
7. Trading Mbah a Moute for Derrick Williams (6 - bit of a no risk trade that brought in a young SF to prove he could take over the starting job.)
8. Trading Greivis Vasquez, Chuck Hayes, Patrick Patterson, John Salmons for Rudy Gay, Quincy Acy, Aaron Gray (9 - took a limited risk on a trade that could have netted us a big reward. Gay was revitalized here and has shown to be a good robin to Cousins' batman.)
9. Trade Marcus Thornton for Jason Terry and Reggie Evans (5 - meh trade that just moved around ending contracts and left us with less depth at the guard spots.)
10. Drafted Nik Stauskas with the 8th pick (5 - the jury is still out on the pick. However, I personally was okay with taking Stauskas where we took him. I think he will be a good player in this league)
11. Trade Isaiah Thomas for a TPE (2 - it was very likely somebody was going to drop a decent size contract for Thomas. Probably one we wouldn't want to match. Why in the hell would you wait until the offseason when you have no leverage? Trade him at the deadline where you can get some value for him. Another major talent bleed.)
12. Sign Darren Collison to 3 year MLE (8 - Collison has looked good and has been willing to play as a team in order to feed Cousins and Gay. His deal is good value as well)
13. Sign Ramon Sessions for $4.25 mil/2 years (3 - has been an absolute disaster while here. I would rate this lower, but the fact that the deal isn't that big keeps this at a 3)
14. Sign Omri Casspi to Veteran Minimum (5 - no brainer deal)
15. Sign Eric Moreland to Veteran Minimum (5 - no brainer deal)
16. Extend Rudy Gay for $40 mil/3 years (5 - no brainer deal. It's hard to lure big time free agents to Sacramento and Gay showed he was compatible with Cousins. Easy decision)
17. Fire Mike Malone as Head Coach (-3 - I know I said I would keep it on a 1-10 scale but this decision was just too bad. After going 9-6 with a healthy Cousins with the 2nd toughest schedule at the time, Cousins gets sick and we drop to 11-13. From there, Malone is fired. We finally had a coach who had gotten through to the players, and the players wanted to go out every night and battle for him. He had a great relationship with Cousins, and they both had each others back. It's unheard of to fire a coach who was performing so well. Complete incompetence and most likely one of the dumbest decisions I will see made by a FO in my life.)
18. Promote Tyrone Corbin as Head Coach (1 - So not only did you make one of the worst decisions a FO has ever made, but you had no plan to replace Malone with a competent coach? Yikes! Thanks for throwing the season down the drain, breaking up chemistry that was being developed by our team, and making us look like a joke so free agents will not want to come here (or make it harder to keep current players in town).)
19. Fire Tyrone Corbin as Head Coach (5 - no brainer. He lost the team awhile ago and was going through the motions. Had absolutely no success coaching this team and deserved to be fired)
20. Hire George Karl as Head Coach (5 - no brainer, and frankly, we're all a little upset why this didn't happen right after Malone was fired.
21. Intangibles - how they have conducted business and represented our franchise (1 - I don't think there is a worse GM in the league at conducting himself in a professional way. All of the lies, leaked rumors, backstabbing has made this franchise look like a circus. Just think about how other players, fans, and the public view our team? We look like children to them, and we have our FO to thanks for that. Not only do we look like children, but we look like dumb children who want to build a team around pace and offense when you have a team with Cousins and Gay on it. Their intellect, vision, and professionalism are all lacking. Therefore, they earn a well deserved 1.)

If you want to take strict average it comes out to 4.3, but obviously there are decisions that have more weight than others. For instance, a 1st round draft pick decision would have more importance than a 2nd round pick decision, but I'm not going to go through and arbitrarily assign weights to each decision (I've already arbitrarily assigned my own ratings for each decision).

The good?
Draftng McLemore
Drafting McCallum
Trading for Gay
Signing Collison

The bad?
Getting barely anything for Evans
Signing Carl Landry
Getting virtually nothing for Thomas
Firing Coach Malone
Promoting Corbin as Head Coach
Intangibles, professionalism, etc.

The rest of the decisions are meh or no brainers. Nothing that should really be scorned and nothing that should really be praised.

I think (along with the majority of posters here) that the FO's bad decisions have certainly outweighed the good ones. Therefore, we would prefer a new GM. Make sense?

"Plants"?

And in response to your comment, "I think (along with the majority of posters here) that the FO's bad decisions have certainly outweighed the good ones. Therefore, we would prefer a new GM. Make sense?" that's not true. You don't speak for the majority of posters here. All I saw was name calling PDA, and certain members pointing out other members as trolls or as you say "plants" because they believe Pete deserves more than 2 years to prove himself as a GM. You yourself did back up what you said, but others just resulted in name calling and quick/rash comments. I respect what you've said, but most of the responses are fairly negative here.

Look back at the beginning of the thread, and you'll see why I posted the comment I did. Unless of course, members removed their comments. Here are the comments discredting Pete.

He's done very little worthy of respect.

I don't want to hear about the Boogie resigning nonsense. That's pathetic wannabe crap trying to cling on to a big star like a mollusk and take credit for it.

His big move causing renewed adulation amongst those determined to be pleased is hiring a coaching candidate so obvious that 99% of fans would have made the same call,

Haha people give gms credit for maxing out franchise players on there rookie deal. Give me a break.

Oh, like thousands of Kings fans are rushing to give the little sniveling twerp Geoff Petrie-like,"In Petey We Trust." D'Alessandro will never come anywhere near remotely sniffing Petrie's jock strap.

How long until we fire this weasel?

People here act like there weren't A TON of questions surrounding Demarcus Cousins at the time of that extension. Almost all news media outlets were surprised by this. They weren't sure if Cuz was a franchise players because of his on the court antics and maturity. Suddenly now, it was a no brainer move that even a weasel could make.

 

[206Fan]

First off, that requires the assumption that Rudy Gay is a better player than Tyreke Evans. I like Gay but numbers-wise they are very close. Gay is a slightly better (but not good) 3 point shooter, Evans is a slightly better defender and while both post very similar rebounding numbers, the fact that Evans does it from the guard spot makes those a lot more valuable. As I mentioned, neither guy has made an all-star game, neither guy has a game that truly compliments Boogie and while possibly not a completely fair indicator the reality is that both the Grizzlies and Raptors improved dramatically directly after trading Rudy Gay.

But the other interesting thing is this. The Kings didn't HAVE to trade Tyreke to get Gay. Salmons, Patterson, Hayes and Jimmer (instead of Vasquez) gets that deal done just the same. In fact, the Kings spent almost the same money on Landry and Williams last season as Tyreke earned. This year those two guys actually cost the Kings significantly more than what Evans is being paid. I'd rather have Tyreke and a bit of cash to sign another bench player than Derrick Williams and Carl Landry.



If that were the case then they should have fired Malone and hired Karl last offseason. Or at the very least hired Karl immediately after Malone was canned instead of putting Corbin through the wringer. The fact that they didn't tells me this move was completely reactionary and not planned. PDA and/or Vivek actually believed that removing Malone would improve the team. And only when things got this bad, fan sentiment got this vitriolic and likely when STH renewal rates started dropping did they make the move for Karl.

Evans is a PG. Gay is the best SF we've had since Ron Artest. The Kings are/were desperate for a SF..and we got one in Gay. I will say that if you compare them as SF, it's no contest because Evans isn't a SF.

Gay isn't a slightly better 3pt shooter.. he's a MUCH better 3pt shooter. Evans still doesn't have a 3pt shot, and his shot is still broke after 5 years. Evans is the much better defender because of his quickness.

Let's be honest... this team would not work if we had a lineup of Cuz-Evans-Gay. I'm not even factoring IT.... that's such a ball dominate team that we'd probably average less than 12apg.. we'd probably still be losing like we are now, so it does fit your argument.


I think Rudy is a much better overall player because of his versatility in scoring. Evan's best use in the NBA is at PG..Take a look at his assists numbers since taking over at PG.. it's been amazing. If Tyreke ever figures out that he's best as a PG, he'd be a better player. But for right now, he's still a positionless player without a jumper.

Rudy is the better player even at his ugly contract.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Really got nothing to do with PDA. PDA is a yes man that does what Vivek tells him.

Cousins was maxed out, but they didn't lock him down for that extra year. Vivek the liar said it was Cousins' choice. But you can tell by Cousins' reaction at the press conference that Vivek made that crap up. Vivek felt Cousins was combustible and didn't want to be locked down for that extra year.

By all accounts, Rudy signed for a favorable contract because of his relationship with coach Malone.

You can say PDA's relationship with Karl made this a little smoother. But it's absolutely no secret that Karl wants to get back into coaching one way or another. If we didn't sign him, he would sign with someone else.

 

[twslam07]

"Plants"?

Yes, as if people have been planted here to try and sway opinions on the FO.

And in response to your comment, "I think (along with the majority of posters here) that the FO's bad decisions have certainly outweighed the good ones. Therefore, we would prefer a new GM. Make sense?" that's not true. You don't speak for the majority of posters here. All I saw was name calling PDA, and certain members pointing out other members as trolls or as you say "plants" because they believe Pete deserves more than 2 years to prove himself as a GM. You yourself did back up what you said, but others just resulted in name calling and quick/rash comments. I respect what you've said, but most of the responses are fairly negative here.

Actually, I do. The majority of the posters here are not happy with the way PDA has handled this team, and they have chosen to not go through the hassle of shifting through all of PDA's moves because posters here have already discussed them at one point in time. For a lot here, it's a waste of time because it's already been talked about over and over again.

People here act like there weren't A TON of questions surrounding Demarcus Cousins at the time of that extension. Almost all news media outlets were surprised by this. They weren't sure if Cuz was a franchise players because of his on the court antics and maturity. Suddenly now, it was a no brainer move that even a weasel could make.

This actually made me chuckle a bit. Do you notice how you said almost all news media outlets were surprised by this? Do you want to know why? It's because the media has never painted him in a good light. Kings fans who have watched him since his rookie year saw his progression, but when he has one slip up, the press is all over it (thus not changing public opinion). These things take time.

However, perception is not reality. Again, a large majority of us were on board with extending Cousins. Some of us (yours truly) were upset that it wasn't a 5 year extension. People in Sacramento who have seen him play on a regular basis knew the kind of person he was and they knew we had a very, very special player who only comes around every 20-30 years. Being a small market team, it's a no brainer to lock up a guy with that sort of talent who was showing progress with his maturity. Just because people (like the media) who weren't watching him as intently were surprised does not make this an excellent decision at the time.

For people who did their homework and watched him, it was a rather obvious decision.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Brick you're very smart and I respect you a lot. I frequently disagree with you but I listen to what you say, and you've changed my mind on several occasions. So I am going to ask you something, not to be snarky, but in the hopes that you thoughtfully consider it:

Are you a poker player? Because the sum of the moves that Pete has made look an awful lot to me like a very crafty poker player who makes a lot of bad or questionable moves in order to set up better ones down the line, and who also leaks a lot of information (a significant amount truthful), but ultimately hides what his end game is. In his Reddit AMA, he says something interesting: that the Rudy trade at first appeared as a dead end, but later they were able to make it work (http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24vs1u/iam_pete_dalessandro_sacramento_kings_gm_ama/). I really think he made the Tyreke trade in an effort to reposition himself to get Rudy, and it was a great move in that context.

I think you can also look at the Karl signing in the same way: he clearly has a good relationship with George from their time together in Denver. I don't think it's unreasonable that after PDA got hired, he told Vivek that his plan was not just to get Gay, but to get Karl as well. Maybe the hypothesis that they fired Malone in a panic move to try to get cover from the fans while Cousins was out is correct - but if Pete had a line on George, is that really something to rake him over the coals for? I like Malone a lot and think he was some good potential, but you don't have to stick to a young and unproven guy just because he showed some good things over 15 games when you can pick up a HOFer instead.

Pete relied on his contacts and insider NBA knowledge to assemble an elite starting 5 and pick up a HOF head coach. We only today see the end result of his moves. Given that his payoff moves have been related to his long-standing connections with well-reputed people in the league, what is your basis for assuming that this all happened by accident and was not planned in advance?

Really? Hardly. I would take Tyreke back 100x out of 100 over Rudy Gay. You just weakened your argument for PDA being so great with that assessment if dropping Evans to get Gay was his end game. And since when does crafty equate to continued loss after loss? Shouldn't these crafty moves be paying dividends by now?
Where is this elite starting 5 you speak of? I think you are confusing the norcal teams.

 

[VF21]

As far as people speaking for "the majority of posters" goes, I think they're almost always wrong. We have a LOT of members who don't post in a lot of threads because they do not agree with the OP or because there are some here who are extraordinarily eager to argue/rebut anyone who doesn't agree with them.

If you have opinion, it's yours. It doesn't carry any more weight because you claim to have the backing of a majority of anything. Just sayin'...

 

[rainmaker]

People here act like there weren't A TON of questions surrounding Demarcus Cousins at the time of that extension. Almost all news media outlets were surprised by this. They weren't sure if Cuz was a franchise players because of his on the court antics and maturity. Suddenly now, it was a no brainer move that even a weasel could make.

I think you might want to go back and pull up some threads from that time. Most fans recognized exactly what we had with Cuz and would have extended him as a max player in a heartbeat. Most were very happy at the time of the extension.

There were a handful of posters who kept harping on his maturity issues and didn't want him here, didn't like the risk, even proposed trading him for a guy like Gortat. Funny enough, those posters disappeared pretty quickly.

As for national news outlets, they watch from a distance and at that time were judging Cuz mostly on his reputation. We had numerous debates about just that. For those watching him 82 times a year, extending him was a no-brainer, through and through. My opinion on Cuz was never dependent on some schmuck who writes for a paper in Philly or any number of places and watches him twice a year.

 

[funkykingston]

Evans is a PG. Gay is the best SF we've had since Ron Artest. The Kings are/were desperate for a SF..and we got one in Gay. I will say that if you compare them as SF, it's no contest because Evans isn't a SF.

Yes, and if you compare them as guards it's no contest the other way and the Kings currently have Gay/Casspi/Williams and potentially Miller at SF and zero guard depth. There are always holes in bad teams. The notion that Gay is more valuable than Evans because they Kings lacked a decent SF for years doesn't really hold water.

Gay isn't a slightly better 3pt shooter.. he's a MUCH better 3pt shooter. Evans still doesn't have a 3pt shot, and his shot is still broke after 5 years. Evans is the much better defender because of his quickness.

This season Tyreke has taken 146 3's and made 44 of them. Gay has taken 141 threes and made 48 of them. 34% vs 30% from three isn't a huge difference. Neither guy is a shooter really and both are best working close to the basket.

Let's be honest... this team would not work if we had a lineup of Cuz-Evans-Gay. I'm not even factoring IT.... that's such a ball dominate team that we'd probably average less than 12apg.. we'd probably still be losing like we are now, so it does fit your argument.

I was never arguing that the team should have both resigned Evans and traded for Gay. I was simply pointing out that letting Tyreke walk wasn't about opening up room for the Gay trade AND that despite everyone claiming that he's overpaid, the Kings are currently paying $2 million dollars more for Landry and Williams than Evans.

I think Rudy is a much better overall player because of his versatility in scoring. Evan's best use in the NBA is at PG..Take a look at his assists numbers since taking over at PG.. it's been amazing. If Tyreke ever figures out that he's best as a PG, he'd be a better player. But for right now, he's still a positionless player without a jumper.

Rudy is the better player even at his ugly contract.

And I could argue that Evans is a much better overall player because of his overall versatility - passing, rebounding, scoring, defending and ability to play both guard spots. But more than that, even if we give the nod to Gay, the reality is that you lost a talent like Evans for nothing and then traded to get Gay which represents a minor upgrade in talent at best. And neither one is a natural wingman for Cousins. The Kings are still what, 2-20 in games without Cousins in the last two years? D'Alessandro wanted to put that on Malone. I think it speaks to the talent level of the team he assembled.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

People are discrediting all the good he's actually done as a GM.

What has he done though?
-The best player on this team BY FAR, is from the Maloof era.
-the rest of the roster is pretty awful (see record when Cousins sits out)
-the bench sucks
-the coaching thing was handled absolutely terrible (whether that was Pete's doing we will never know)

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Evans is a PG. Gay is the best SF we've had since Ron Artest. The Kings are/were desperate for a SF..and we got one in Gay. I will say that if you compare them as SF, it's no contest because Evans isn't a SF.

Gay isn't a slightly better 3pt shooter.. he's a MUCH better 3pt shooter. Evans still doesn't have a 3pt shot, and his shot is still broke after 5 years. Evans is the much better defender because of his quickness.

Let's be honest... this team would not work if we had a lineup of Cuz-Evans-Gay. I'm not even factoring IT.... that's such a ball dominate team that we'd probably average less than 12apg.. we'd probably still be losing like we are now, so it does fit your argument.


I think Rudy is a much better overall player because of his versatility in scoring. Evan's best use in the NBA is at PG..Take a look at his assists numbers since taking over at PG.. it's been amazing. If Tyreke ever figures out that he's best as a PG, he'd be a better player. But for right now, he's still a positionless player without a jumper.

Rudy is the better player even at his ugly contract.

wait, gay is the best SF we've had? didn't we just retire #16. most guys who have their jersey retired are OK.

 

[206Fan]

Yes, and if you compare them as guards it's no contest the other way and the Kings currently have Gay/Casspi/Williams and potentially Miller at SF and zero guard depth. There are always holes in bad teams. The notion that Gay is more valuable than Evans because they Kings lacked a decent SF for years doesn't really hold water.



This season Tyreke has taken 146 3's and made 44 of them. Gay has taken 141 threes and made 48 of them. 34% vs 30% from three isn't a huge difference. Neither guy is a shooter really and both are best working close to the basket.



I was never arguing that the team should have both resigned Evans and traded for Gay. I was simply pointing out that letting Tyreke walk wasn't about opening up room for the Gay trade AND that despite everyone claiming that he's overpaid, the Kings are currently paying $2 million dollars more for Landry and Williams than Evans.




And I could argue that Evans is a much better overall player because of his overall versatility - passing, rebounding, scoring, defending and ability to play both guard spots. But more than that, even if we give the nod to Gay, the reality is that you lost a talent like Evans for nothing and then traded to get Gay which represents a minor upgrade in talent at best. And neither one is a natural wingman for Cousins. The Kings are still what, 2-20 in games without Cousins in the last two years? D'Alessandro wanted to put that on Malone. I think it speaks to the talent level of the team he assembled.

I think that Pete didn't get enough back for Tyreke. At the time of the trade, it seemed like a good swap because Vasquez averaged 14pts and 9asts. However, Vasquez didn't meet his expectations at all. Now we see that he didn't get a ton of value back for Tyreke because of how disappointed Vasquez came out to be...but Vasquez was a big trade piece in fetching Gay.

I think you can almost say that Tyreke turned into Gay.

If Tyreke ever uses all of the tools he has, he'd be much better than Rudy.

I do agree with you that we didn't get a ton of direct value back for Tyreke no doubt. I think I misread your argumentbecause we agree on the same thing..sorry lol

 

[206Fan]

wait, gay is the best SF we've had? didn't we just retire #16. most guys who have their jersey retired are OK.

Since Artest...

 

[HndsmCelt]

I think what bothers me the most about the folks celebrating PDA for signing George Karl is not the forgiving him for the mess he created with the Malone firing, but the actual giving him credit as a great GM for what seems to me to be the biggest Duh! Move I have ever seen.

Within HOURS of the Malone firing AKA night of the rodent, George Karl virtually stood outside STA with a sign reading “Will Coach For Jewelry.” Meanwhile PDA gave Corbin a promotion, said he was the coach with full support… 8 long weeks go by and after a lot of bleeding goes on, the fans revolt, the STH balk and every writer in the biz wonders what PDA was thinking and keep pushing Karl at every turn. It seems to me the Pete made this deal with a gun to his head. Now if PDA had turned up with Jerry Sloan, or Rick Adelman, I’d be impressed with his skills, NOT because I think they are better coaches (although I do) but because THAT would have taken serious work.

To make a good close analogy imagine I live in a nice house, hardly perfect, maybe I am even considering moving. So Thanksgiving I decide to deep-fry a turkey and set the house on fire. Hey it was an accident really! So I gather my family up and say “I saved the tent from the fire so it’s cool we can live in the tent” Now the neighbors are selling their very nice house and they stop by to tell me that it is available. My wife says buy the neighbor’s house, the rest of the neighbors after laughing at me say “dude buy the neighbor’s house” After living in the tent for 8 weeks of cold wet winter being repeatedly told the neighbor’s house is available, I notice prospective buyers looking at the neighbor’s house so I buy it… I’m not sure that says much about my genius, or skills in house hunting.

 

[funkykingston]

I think that Pete didn't get enough back for Tyreke. At the time of the trade, it seemed like a good swap because Vasquez averaged 14pts and 9asts. However, Vasquez didn't meet his expectations at all. Now we see that he didn't get a ton of value back for Tyreke because of how disappointed Vasquez came out to be...but Vasquez was a big trade piece in fetching Gay.

I think you can almost say that Tyreke turned into Gay.

If Tyreke ever uses all of the tools he has, he'd be much better than Rudy.

I do agree with you that we didn't get a ton of direct value back for Tyreke no doubt. I think I misread your argumentbecause we agree on the same thing..sorry lol

As to the bolded portion, no you can't. What fetched Gay was a willingness to take on $20 million in salary for a guy with awful efficiency numbers and having enough contracts to send back. Vasquez made a bit over $2 million that season. And let's not pretend that Toronto was weighing offers for Rudy. They wanted out from under that contract. The fact that our guys (Hayes, Vasquez, Patterson) are working out well as part of their bench is almost happenstance and really just extra salt in the wound, especially considering how bad the Kings' reserves are.

The trade for Gay replaced the talent loss of Tyreke but it didn't significantly make the team better. I guess when it comes down to it I question why some think D'Alessandro is doing a great job when two seasons into his tenure the team isn't any better despite a talent like Cousins improving every year. And that's without touching on how this season was absolutely torpedoed and the Kings rebranded from gritty up and comers back to laughingstock with ridiculous FO/ownership.

 

[twslam07]

We had a team under the Maloofs that was basically trying to lose, but now we have a FO who wants to win really badly. The scary part is that they are performing on the same level. Hopefully, Karl can begin to correct that ship with no more interruptions from our FO.