miltonap
Starter
I would not give up the 7th and Bogs for Beal. Probably same for Buddy.
Otto Porter Jr
- Thread starter Joshoua
- Start date
I would not give up the 7th and Bogs for Beal. Probably same for Buddy.
I agree. Beal is a great player but I don't know that he's on a whole other level than Buddy or Bogs. Not to the point where I'm going to give up our pick this year to make the trade. Not to mention we already have chemistry developing with our three guards and there's no knowing how that will change bringing Beal in instead. Porter makes sense because he fits a need. If Wall or Beal end up on the trading block instead, it doesn't really make sense for us to get involved. There are other targets we could go after that would make more sense.
This is exactly what I was thinking and that lineup is perfect for this era.
The question is does Washington take WCS-Skal-JJ-ZBo
For
Otto-Mahinmi
whozit
Starter
That's a high price to pay to get THEM out of salary cap hell. If they are going to break up their big three because of the luxury tax they don't have many potential suitors that can give them the relief wanted. They would need to be the one offering the sweetener, not the Kings. Skal may be nothing or he may be something but either way he doesn't need to be included.
I think you may be bidding against yourself.
I think Beal is on a whole other level. He's a proven top 5 SG in the NBA. If you get Beal on this team, it's not gambling on what he "can potentially become". He's already flourishing in the NBA as a 2nd option on a playoff team. The same can't be said about Buddy or Bogdan.
24yearsold: 22.6pts 4.5asts 4.4rebs 1.2stls on 46/37.5/79.1
24yearsold: 13.5pts 1.9asts 3.8rebs 1.1stls on 44.6/43.1/87.7
25yearsold: 11.8pts 3.3asts 2.9rebs 0.9stls on 44.6/39.2/84
Fair enough but we're talking about taking back Bradley Beal here instead of Buddy and Mo Bamba or Buddy and Mikal Bridges or Buddy and Michael Porter. That's a hard sell for me however good Beal is. Also I've got a Washington Wizards fan who just spent the last 2 weeks bemoaning how Beal just completely destroyed their playoff run with terrible 4th quarter performances in almost every game hunting his own shot and throwing the ball out of bounds over and over again. There's an element of "grass is greener" at work here. Yeah he's got the superstar numbers but they're not directly comparable. Beal is playing in a different system and he's a featured scorer next to an elite playmaker. Buddy and whoever is available at #7 might give us better production over the next 5 years than Bradley Beal would. Buddy was top 10 in 3pt% in his second season. Given the increasing importance of the 3pt shot, I think that's a pretty impressive platform for future success.
burekijogurt
Starter
To add more color to the comparison:
6th NBA season, 36.3 min, 18.1 FGA
4th NBA season, 25.3 min, 11.7 FGA
1st NBA season*, 27.9 min, 9.9 FGA
Not saying more minutes = more FGA = more points necessarily, but if you look at Buddy's multiple seasons his scoring output pretty much varies with minutes he has received. If he got 36 minutes and took 18 shots a game I think he could definitely have the same scoring output. Bogdan would probably come close too taking that many shots. And plus we would have a #7 pick to add to that.
(* pro basketball player for 6 outside NBA)
(and I admit, homerism played a part in the response
)
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
you would be making a mistake IMO...Beal is waiting to break out and have his own team. It's all moot anyway, I don't see the Wiz making him available for trade.
sactowndog
All-Star
Porter is a better player than Beal. Decent passer for a forward, not high usage. When you look at assists per Usage Beal is pretty poor for a guard.
sactowndog
All-Star
If Giles is as good as projected someone isn’t going to get time. Better to get an Asset in return.
sactowndog
All-Star
I might do this if pushed. But would rather try to take Mahinni versus losing the 7.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Porter a better player than Beal? Stop it man. Porter is a role player that knows his role and doesn't play out of his comfort. Beal while being a high usage guard, is still developing. He is by no means a finished product. Beal came into the league as a shooter and in his second season, worked on his handle, while not the best, has made significant strides.
sactowndog
All-Star
To add more color to the comparison:
6th NBA season, 36.3 min, 18.1 FGA
4th NBA season, 25.3 min, 11.7 FGA
1st NBA season*, 27.9 min, 9.9 FGA
Not saying more minutes = more FGA = more points necessarily, but if you look at Buddy's multiple seasons his scoring output pretty much varies with minutes he has received. If he got 36 minutes and took 18 shots a game I think he could definitely have the same scoring output. Bogdan would probably come close too taking that many shots. And plus we would have a #7 pick to add to that.
(* pro basketball player for 6 outside NBA)
(and I admit, homerism played a part in the response
Beal is a high usage guard who would take minutes from Bogdan who makes the ball flow. Washington may try to move him but he would be a horrible match with Fox who has his own issues with passing the ball.
I would do quite a bit for Porter but much less for Beal.
sactowndog
All-Star
We disagree. I don’t like guards with low assist to usage ratios. Teams built on them tend to do poorly. I think the trades you propose especially with Fox at point would be a step back for the Kings. Whereas a high percentage 3 point shooter at 3 who moves the ball would be a perfect fit for the Kings.
I just don’t see a way Washington justvtrades Porter for salary dump and WCS the kid is a stud at 24. Washington fans laughed offers not including the 7th pick.
And honesty Otto is worth is Bridges, Bamba, Carter, and Porter Jr won’t be as good as Otto you can quote me on that. So the 7th for Otto is a win for us. 15 for WCS could potentially be another win especially if we drafted Johnathan Porter there. WCS will be commanding a big contact next year now if Giles shows us something I’d let WCS walk easily. Also in the scenario we would resign KK to start for the next 1-3 years while Giles develops. Jonhay Porter to me will be a more impactful player the WCS potentially. His game is tailor made for the nba new era at 6’11- 240 he has good size and should get more explosive as he loses the baby fat that he has. He’s a great passer and rebounder and will stretch the floor
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah I hear you. I might do it as you say.
CelticsFan
Bench
I don’t see Washington dumping Porter for spare parts. A sign and trade with Boogie and Porter being the main pieces may work. Pelicans finally get a wing and Cousins gets to play with Wall
There not trading Boogie
CelticsFan
Bench
You know he’s a FA right? It can be argued that the Pelicans were better this season without Boogie. Mirotic at PF makes their team fit better in the modern day NBA and costs a whole lot less. IMO a sign and trade involving Boogie and Porter as the main assets makes a lot of sense for both
I'd think the Pelicans would want Beal right? Is a much closer talent gap and makes the Pelican really fun:
Holliday-Beal-??-Mirotic-AD
Think Wizards probably add Oubre and/or 15 too, but that's a deal I could see really benefiting both sides. Wall-Porter-Boogie is a nice core and Holliday-Beal-AD is a nice core.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
That was the conclusion of a recent piece over at the Ringer, which, I have to say, made sense to me: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/9/17334790/anthony-davis-demarcus-cousins-playoffs
Only fools think there better same thing every year when a star goes down and a team does good. Oh maybe there better without him, comical
They started playing elite ball right before he went down
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Boogie coming off his injury doesn't get Beal, much less Beal+, unless Boogie's willing to sign a very team-friendly contract in a sign and trade.
CelticsFan
Bench
I feel like Beal is very underrated by most here
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
they look at his usage rate and that turns them off....discounting how his game is expanding beyond just being a shooter, which was his forte coming out of Florida
I just feel like Wall/Beal have become the East Coast version of Lillard/McCollum in that everybody knows they're super talented and yet nobody takes them seriously in the playoffs. That's a problem. I've been waiting years for them to take the mantle of "best backcourt in the league" yet there's something unmistakably empty about their individual achievements.
Porter is the guy on that team I covet the most because he has the single most elite skill (truly elite 3pt efficiency) along with the least drawbacks. Sure we never see him trying to take over games but that can be a blessing and a curse with other players. He also never shoots Washington out of games or gets overly aggressive and costs them important possessions at crucial times. I suppose it says something that the Wizards fan I know still considers Otto Porter the most expendable of their "big 3" but then you have to figure in all the years we've suffered through watching high-usage one on one scoring guards try to lead this team when what we desperately needed was a competent 3 and D wing who could consistently knock down shots and defend their position in the same game. This is something unique to Kings fans (or at least a subset of fanbase that includes the Kings) and you can trace it all the way back to Pre 2000 when we watched Mitch Richmond absolutely ball out for years on terrible teams with no chance of winning anything because he never had any help. We all have our personal histories and I'm getting rather tired of seeing the Kings franchise hand over the keys to a little guy only to watch him dribble around and launch off balance jumpers for 40 min a game. Don't get me wrong, those guys can be spectacular to watch but give them a $30 million dollar contact and drudge up the worst that the NBA has to offer in wings and big men and the fun starts to feel like a recurring nightmare instead. At least a guy like Porter takes smart shots. I'm cool with Doncic in that role because he knows how to pass and get to the line. He's also a wing so he's got a little more of a chance of imposing his will on the game as a scorer. If you're an average height or below guard you're really only imposing your will on the game right now by launching threes and making them consistently. Plenty of guys get the first part right, very few manage to do both. Which is also why I'm reluctant to package Buddy Hield in any trades right now. If he's going to stick in the 40-45% range from three for his career we've hit the jackpot there and we'd be better served slowly ramping up his attempts per game instead of switching to a guy who's going to score twice as many points on three times as many shots. Efficency is what wins right now not volume (unless you're using elite defense to secure significantly more possessions than your opponent every night).
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I don’t think Beal is a star to give up Buddy/7 when we’d still have holes at SF/PF. Otto fills those holes while keeping Buddy
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah that has potential but huge risk. An Achilles injury on a man that large could be career ending. So you sign a max contract to a player that could no longer play? Between Wall’s contract and that you would be betting the next 7 years of your franchise.
