One AND ONLY Cousins trade rumors thread
- Thread starter Albatros
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I said this in a PM to somebody, but:
1) George Karl might be the #1 media coach in the entire NBA. Loves to have people pay attention. With such an egregiously ugly claim being made by Woj of all people, I don't see how such a chatty coach could have any excuse not to respond to it tomorrow
2) that said Karl has been off twitter at least for a week. Presumably unrelated, but maybe he is scouting in Tajikistan and out of easy contract.
1) George Karl might be the #1 media coach in the entire NBA. Loves to have people pay attention. With such an egregiously ugly claim being made by Woj of all people, I don't see how such a chatty coach could have any excuse not to respond to it tomorrow
2) that said Karl has been off twitter at least for a week. Presumably unrelated, but maybe he is scouting in Tajikistan and out of easy contract.
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The timing of all this points directly to PDA, as the ink has barely dried on whatever contract he just signed with Denver and the draft is days away.
That said, I'm sure there is some truth to it. As has been pointed out, Karl is an egomaniac and likely doesn't want a player like Cuz that will challenge his style of play and running of a team. We can speculate all we want, but I firmly believe all of the new rumors are coming from PDA - true or not.
That said, George Karl could be coming from a place of perceived power in that he doesn't believe the FO would fire him because of the turnover that's already occurred with Malone/Corbin and the long term contract he's signed. And if for some reason they did, he'd be getting paid a ton of $$ for 6 months of work. From that standpoint, I could easily see Karl pushing an agenda because he believes he holds all the cards.
I really hope that's not the case and it's all on PDA. If Karl really has this agenda and is pushing it hard, Vlade and Vivek really need to bite the bullet and let the guy go. As someone already said, they can't negotiate with a terrorist coach and allow him to run the show.
Firing a 3rd coach in 6 months time -- and after the long wait to hire this particular one -- would certainly not be a thing you'd like to do, but the positive thing is that a pretty good candidate that DMC seems to get along with is still available. You might be able to sell him on taking the job if he can see the Karl firing for what it really would be about and just not further instability.
Let's hope this all works out for the best and that Boogie is still here at the end of it.
That said, I'm sure there is some truth to it. As has been pointed out, Karl is an egomaniac and likely doesn't want a player like Cuz that will challenge his style of play and running of a team. We can speculate all we want, but I firmly believe all of the new rumors are coming from PDA - true or not.
That said, George Karl could be coming from a place of perceived power in that he doesn't believe the FO would fire him because of the turnover that's already occurred with Malone/Corbin and the long term contract he's signed. And if for some reason they did, he'd be getting paid a ton of $$ for 6 months of work. From that standpoint, I could easily see Karl pushing an agenda because he believes he holds all the cards.
I really hope that's not the case and it's all on PDA. If Karl really has this agenda and is pushing it hard, Vlade and Vivek really need to bite the bullet and let the guy go. As someone already said, they can't negotiate with a terrorist coach and allow him to run the show.
Firing a 3rd coach in 6 months time -- and after the long wait to hire this particular one -- would certainly not be a thing you'd like to do, but the positive thing is that a pretty good candidate that DMC seems to get along with is still available. You might be able to sell him on taking the job if he can see the Karl firing for what it really would be about and just not further instability.
Let's hope this all works out for the best and that Boogie is still here at the end of it.
If Demarcus is traded, I will HAVE to find out, with absolute certainty, who exactly fired Michael Malone last season, for me to EVER set foot in the Kings' arena again, or watch one minute of Kings basketball, much less give them one dime of my money.
There is simply no way forward with this organization as a fan unless we find out who exactly is responsible for creating this rift so large that elite adult professionals can't work it out for the betterment of all sides.
Since I know this is not likely to happen, I can safely say that I will cease being a fan of the Kings (after 30 years) if they trade Boogie.
There is simply no way that I could ever root for a team that may well still have the person responsible for this mess still making decisions for that team.
There is simply no way forward with this organization as a fan unless we find out who exactly is responsible for creating this rift so large that elite adult professionals can't work it out for the betterment of all sides.
Since I know this is not likely to happen, I can safely say that I will cease being a fan of the Kings (after 30 years) if they trade Boogie.
There is simply no way that I could ever root for a team that may well still have the person responsible for this mess still making decisions for that team.
The Kings were stupid if they didn't put a conduct clause in Karl's contract where they could fire him for tampering with personnel decisions or conduct unbecoming or insubordination, and get out of whatever salary they'd owe him for causing all this.
Either way, Vivek and the minority owners need to know there are hundreds of millions of dollars riding on this decision.
If Karl is the person to blame, they need to cut ties with him, even if it means costing them $10+ million ; that's a drop in the bucket compared to the damage trading Cousins under these circumstances would cost them.
Either way, Vivek and the minority owners need to know there are hundreds of millions of dollars riding on this decision.
If Karl is the person to blame, they need to cut ties with him, even if it means costing them $10+ million ; that's a drop in the bucket compared to the damage trading Cousins under these circumstances would cost them.
There's a part of me that thinks Cuz will only take this as a further test of his loyalty, and therefore a way to prove his loyalty, which is, again, his core value. I think he does see a glimmer of hope in Vlade being in charge, and that Vivek made that decision.
I just do not see it in Cuz's nature to abandon a team when the going gets rough. He kind of lives for it. I think he believes it will make the success sweeter. I just don't see it. He is a man of character, and a man of his word.
I just do not see it in Cuz's nature to abandon a team when the going gets rough. He kind of lives for it. I think he believes it will make the success sweeter. I just don't see it. He is a man of character, and a man of his word.
I'll start by clarifying my position: I do not want us trading Cousins.
That said, one could make an argument that blowing up a haphazardly built roster could help the team long term. After all, we haven't got an abundance of cap space for top tier free agents, so unless we land a decent player for a fair price, or flog our young players for veteran help (Nik, Ben, our sixth pick from this year) - then our improvement is going to be heavily dependant on Cousins and Gay carrying the team. That's not a bad thing, but one could make an argument that creating a more balance roster could be better long term.
Let's say we do a deal with the Lakers where we get: #2 and Randle, and keep #6 from the Cousins trade. They get Cousins. That could leave us with a line up like:
This wouldn't help us win now, but long term we'd be set and with the cap likely to increase, we would have space to bring in veteran help for the bench or to upgrade a starting position if there's a major weakness (eg McLemore doesn't improve, or they want to upgrade the PG if Collison is still starting).
Is this scenario of going young, and likely featuring another season or two of losing a hard sell to this team's fan base?
Of course. But they could sell them on the potential of young talent like Russell or Okafor (#2), along with a top ten pick from last year in Randle, our own pick this year (#6), plus McLemore (#7), and Stauskas (#8). That's without considering we would still have Darren Collison and Rudy Gay who are popular among Kings' fans. Add in any further players from free agency or trades and the line up begins to shape up and have long term potential to get us back into the play offs [if everyone develops].
That said, getting rid of Cousins is not something I want to see happen. He's a star and we should be building around him, which is what we will hopefully do this season and for the long term.
That said, one could make an argument that blowing up a haphazardly built roster could help the team long term. After all, we haven't got an abundance of cap space for top tier free agents, so unless we land a decent player for a fair price, or flog our young players for veteran help (Nik, Ben, our sixth pick from this year) - then our improvement is going to be heavily dependant on Cousins and Gay carrying the team. That's not a bad thing, but one could make an argument that creating a more balance roster could be better long term.
Let's say we do a deal with the Lakers where we get: #2 and Randle, and keep #6 from the Cousins trade. They get Cousins. That could leave us with a line up like:
- Collison / McLemore / Gay / Randle / Okafor (#2) - then select one from Hezonja, Johnson, Mudiay, Winslow (#6)
- Russell (#2) / McLemore / Gay / Randle / WCS (#6)
This wouldn't help us win now, but long term we'd be set and with the cap likely to increase, we would have space to bring in veteran help for the bench or to upgrade a starting position if there's a major weakness (eg McLemore doesn't improve, or they want to upgrade the PG if Collison is still starting).
Is this scenario of going young, and likely featuring another season or two of losing a hard sell to this team's fan base?
Of course. But they could sell them on the potential of young talent like Russell or Okafor (#2), along with a top ten pick from last year in Randle, our own pick this year (#6), plus McLemore (#7), and Stauskas (#8). That's without considering we would still have Darren Collison and Rudy Gay who are popular among Kings' fans. Add in any further players from free agency or trades and the line up begins to shape up and have long term potential to get us back into the play offs [if everyone develops].
That said, getting rid of Cousins is not something I want to see happen. He's a star and we should be building around him, which is what we will hopefully do this season and for the long term.
just made me realise, in that same time span I finished High School, moved to a different city, finished my Bachelor, finished my Master, and have now been working for a year. scary.
as for all this mess, I just don't know any more. we've all been living a charmed life that's for sure. I'll always come down on the side favouring Boogie, of course, and I really hope this situation is salvageable in some way (if it comes down to firing Karl and hiring Thibs, it'll have been well worth it, but it just seems so unlikely). should Boogie demand and get a trade...I just don't know anymore.
as for all this mess, I just don't know any more. we've all been living a charmed life that's for sure. I'll always come down on the side favouring Boogie, of course, and I really hope this situation is salvageable in some way (if it comes down to firing Karl and hiring Thibs, it'll have been well worth it, but it just seems so unlikely). should Boogie demand and get a trade...I just don't know anymore.
So I'll play Pete's advocate and ask the what-ifs:
1 - What if it was actually Vivek that forced PDA's hand to fire Malone so that his man-crush on Mully will fully bloom as a Kings' head coach?
2 - What if PDA really hesitated to hire Karl because he already see that this chaos can happen once his old colleague from Denver takes over DMC's coach?
3 - What if all along PDA was the hero that kept DMC not to loose his cool but in the end just too weak to handle Vivek's Sillicon Valley in the NBA principles?
4 - What if Vivek told Vlade wrong things about PDA that made Vlade totally ignore the man in the FO and still hired Karl anyway?
5 - What if I told you that you, yes you, the one reading this now, yes you. You have the power to turn the tides and keep DMC here? Would you do it?
1 - What if it was actually Vivek that forced PDA's hand to fire Malone so that his man-crush on Mully will fully bloom as a Kings' head coach?
2 - What if PDA really hesitated to hire Karl because he already see that this chaos can happen once his old colleague from Denver takes over DMC's coach?
3 - What if all along PDA was the hero that kept DMC not to loose his cool but in the end just too weak to handle Vivek's Sillicon Valley in the NBA principles?
4 - What if Vivek told Vlade wrong things about PDA that made Vlade totally ignore the man in the FO and still hired Karl anyway?
5 - What if I told you that you, yes you, the one reading this now, yes you. You have the power to turn the tides and keep DMC here? Would you do it?
So basically we give up a HOF talent for Okafor and Randle (who played 14 minutes in hos rookie season and still has to prove he's better than JT), and all of a sudden we have a very good young core of players?
Good teams are built around great players. We have one. Why the hell should we trade him for someone who maybe, someday, if we are lucky, could become a poor man's version of who we got now? There is no trade available out there where we can get a good deal. So, if we trade DMC, we will be the losing part of the deal, I have no doubt about that.
Again, I do not want us to trade Cousins, but an argument can be made that a trade might help us become a more balanced team, and better all round team, if the young players develop and reach their respective ceilings.
A trade that nets us Mudiay, Randle and Okafor, or Russell, Randle and WCS, could give us three talented players to build around. Like I said, maybe we copy the Hawks model in having good to very good players at each starting position. Granted these means we would be better our future on the trio becoming good to very good players, but the Hawks [and one could argue that the post-Melo Nuggets were the same] could be the way forwards.
Would I rather build around Cousins? Of course I would. I don't want him to leave. But the thing we always need to bare in mind is that Cousins is also one of the most volatile players in the league. So as much as we'd all love to see Cousins be our Tim Duncan and play his entire career here and win us championships. We also have to be aware that if we don't turn the corner next season and have another 28 win season, he could decide that his future and prime years will be better spent elsewhere and demand a trade.
Again, I don't want us to trade him. I want us to get him the supporting cast to get us back to the play offs. I was merely playing devil's advocate in suggesting that out front office could try to sell this fan base on the long term potential of a new trio of young players.
A trade that nets us Mudiay, Randle and Okafor, or Russell, Randle and WCS, could give us three talented players to build around. Like I said, maybe we copy the Hawks model in having good to very good players at each starting position. Granted these means we would be better our future on the trio becoming good to very good players, but the Hawks [and one could argue that the post-Melo Nuggets were the same] could be the way forwards.
Would I rather build around Cousins? Of course I would. I don't want him to leave. But the thing we always need to bare in mind is that Cousins is also one of the most volatile players in the league. So as much as we'd all love to see Cousins be our Tim Duncan and play his entire career here and win us championships. We also have to be aware that if we don't turn the corner next season and have another 28 win season, he could decide that his future and prime years will be better spent elsewhere and demand a trade.
Again, I don't want us to trade him. I want us to get him the supporting cast to get us back to the play offs. I was merely playing devil's advocate in suggesting that out front office could try to sell this fan base on the long term potential of a new trio of young players.
Twisted?
Like I said, i don't want us to trade Cousins, he's the guy we should build around. But it wouldn't surprise me if our front office did, or has at least considered it.
I want Cousins here as much as anyone. My scenario was playing devil's advocate and how our front office could try to sell us on a trade.
Like I said, i don't want us to trade Cousins, he's the guy we should build around. But it wouldn't surprise me if our front office did, or has at least considered it.
I want Cousins here as much as anyone. My scenario was playing devil's advocate and how our front office could try to sell us on a trade.
Oh I know your position.
But that's my point. Twisted logic. Severely.
Btw... the trade wouldn't net us Mudiay or MCS. We'd be getting one of them anyway.
You're trading Cousins for Okafor and Randle. OKAFOR AND RANDLE (a completely unproven rookie coming off an injury). That's getting about $ 0.20 on the dollar. Consider what Love netted the Wolves... then add another high (top 3) draft pick or a star player and that's what Cousins is worth.
That would have to be one of the absolute worst trades in NBA history.
But that's my point. Twisted logic. Severely.
Btw... the trade wouldn't net us Mudiay or MCS. We'd be getting one of them anyway.
You're trading Cousins for Okafor and Randle. OKAFOR AND RANDLE (a completely unproven rookie coming off an injury). That's getting about $ 0.20 on the dollar. Consider what Love netted the Wolves... then add another high (top 3) draft pick or a star player and that's what Cousins is worth.
That would have to be one of the absolute worst trades in NBA history.
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GD. I gotta listen to this on mike and mike too?
Woj wrote on yahoo that Karl really wants to trade DMC and that karl and DMC will not get along next season.
And like pdizo said above, wouldn't you make sure your next coach and star player could coexist before you hire him?
Mike and mike are parroting how i feel about this. How can we (the kings) choose a 64 year old coach at his last stop before he retires over a 24 year old star player? Mike and mike sounded incredulous...
Woj wrote on yahoo that Karl really wants to trade DMC and that karl and DMC will not get along next season.
And like pdizo said above, wouldn't you make sure your next coach and star player could coexist before you hire him?
Mike and mike are parroting how i feel about this. How can we (the kings) choose a 64 year old coach at his last stop before he retires over a 24 year old star player? Mike and mike sounded incredulous...
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Today will be very interesting... this thing has to be dealt with by Karl himself. He has to come out publicly and say a Bill Clinton speech of some sort to ease the worry.
You know, just because you have a good coaching history doesn't give you free reign. People like that are dangerous because if they swing and miss, they take everyone down with them. Can we trade coaches btw? Is that possible?
You know, just because you have a good coaching history doesn't give you free reign. People like that are dangerous because if they swing and miss, they take everyone down with them. Can we trade coaches btw? Is that possible?
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