The ONE AND ONLY Luka Doncic discussion thread

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#1
We get it. Some of you simply cannot resist the urge to compare Bagley to Doncic, to regret drafting Bagley over Doncic, to sing the praises of Doncic, etc. What's happening, however, is the vast majority of fans here don't want to talk about Doncic. They've moved on and they get frustrated (myself included as a fan) with seeing Doncic's name pop up in multiple threads.

So, here's our compromise. We are going to have ONE THREAD where you can discuss all things Doncic, including any of the topics I've mentioned above. This is the place...not in a game thread, not in a thread about the Kings, etc. DO IT HERE or don't do it at all.

Now, to those who don't want to talk about Doncic. Simple. DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE THREAD. No flaming, no name-calling, no comments about Doncic not being a King, etc. If you enter this thread and attempt to stir the pot, you will be locked out of the thread. On the other side of the coin, if you're posting Doncic comments in other threads, your comments will be deleted. We mods have better things to do than to move your posts. You're all grown-ass people who should be able to decide whether or not your post is Doncic-central.

This is Kingsfans.com - we're here about the Kings but we're willing to be reasonable. After all, we even have a thread about the effing Lakers. :p

Have a good day...and GO KINGS!!
 
#2
Let me be the first one to check in. mods have to be judicious about which comments from the anti-Doncic side (see what I did there?) you disallow because if its all of them then this will be a boring topic. I think all of the comments other than those that violate the normal Kingsfans.com rules (personal attacks, etc..) should be alowed.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#3
Let me be the first one to check in. mods have to be judicious about which comments from the anti-Doncic side (see what I did there?) you disallow because if its all of them then this will be a boring topic. I think all of the comments other than those that violate the normal Kingsfans.com rules (personal attacks, etc..) should be alowed.
The mods don't have to be anything. I don't think I said no anti-Doncic comments could be allowed. I'm pretty sure this is clear enough:

Now, to those who don't want to talk about Doncic. Simple. DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE THREAD. No flaming, no name-calling, no comments about Doncic not being a King, etc. If you enter this thread and attempt to stir the pot, you will be locked out of the thread.
What we've determined to be a reasonable solution to an ongoing pain-in-the-patoot problem is what it is. Some of the other alternatives we considered would be a lot less palatable.

One more thing? We don't care if this topic is boring or not. We're just tired of the vast pollution in other threads already. Doncic doesn't belong in game threads. Period. This thread wasn't created to be a popular ongoing discussion of an exciting topic. It was created to control the damage being done. This isn't our first dance.
 
#5
Just trying to clarify the policy. Does this policy last: Luka’s entire career; until VF one gets over her sad because her expectations for the team were objectively unreasonable; or some undermined period of time in between? Seems like it’s the third one.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#6
Needed to be done. I have to vent, whine, cry, and admire somewhere and after my initial thread got locked it permeated elsewhere.

This discussion is never going away. It is what it is.
That was my thought although I personally find it abhorrent to keep bringing him up. As long as the discussion stays here, all is good. Those who continue to snipe at the mods over this decision aren't going to be happy but that's life. We don't need the extra drama. We mods have real lives, too, and the Doncic situation takes up way too much time and creates unnecessary conflict.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#7
Just trying to clarify the policy. Does this policy last: Luka’s entire career; until VF one gets over her sad because her expectations for the team were objectively unreasonable; or some undermined period of time in between? Seems like it’s the third one.
The policy lasts as long as it lasts. Period. End of discussion. And this is not about me.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#9
If so, did one moderator delete many posts regarding the moderation choice
Your posts disputing moderation decisions have been deleted by not one, not two, but THREE different moderators. If you wish to discuss moderation decisions, do it over PMs with the mods, not in the threads. Further attempts will result in warnings.
 
#10
Fansinceday1 nailed it and summed it up perfectly.

Although I'd argue that Luka Doncic already is a superstar.

Bagley is going to be very good and potentially an all-star. Normally you'd be happy with a pick like that, however not when you picked him over a surefire superstar that is a franchise changer in Luka Doncic. Anybody that's trying to argue otherwise at this point just looks foolish. Ask almost any fan of another team and they'd all take Luka. Not because their "stupid" and "reading the national narrative" but because it's plain as day to anyone who is being objective.

At this point Luka is better than anyone on the Kings roster and that includes Fox. We're all hoping that Fox becomes the consistent superstar that Luka already is.

With all that said we as Kings fans have what we have and what's done is done. This team can still be special going forward and a combo of Fox/Bagley/Buddy has the potential (key word) to really be something special. Hopefully the best case scenario works out in terms of that potential. However make no mistake Vlade blew it on Luka. He just flat out blew it and everybody knows it at this point. You can either acknowledge it and move on or you can keep trying to pretend that he made the right pick. It just gets annoying when guys like Tetsujin keep trying to pretend like Luka is nothing special and this massively flawed player. Best thing to do is just admit you were wrong about Luka and hopefully at some point we can all move on.
 
#11
Seems a reasonable decision. I don't watch Mavs games unless they are playing us so I guess I can expect never to hear about Luka again. Not sure if that's good or bad but I'll take it while I endure the next 4-6 weeks.
 
#12
The scariest thing to me so far about the gap between the two is that Bagley really does not understand how to actually play proper basketball, yeah he's a elite athlete with energy but his skills are very average and his IQ/awareness so far is below guys like JT/Mclemore. Bagley strikes me as a guy who can put up numbers at the expensive of everyone else while making insanely selfish/reckless plays. It's going to be a while until (if he ever) gets it.

I also think we are going to be looking at JJJ as another guy who could be a superstar we missed out on, some of the plays he can make on offense/defense only the elite of the elite can make like Giannis the kid is a absloute freak I have no idea why he is not more hyped his talent/potential is the highest out of the whole draft.
 
#13
I knew the doncic debate touched a nerve but wow.............
I know it’s a touchy subject that most here want to ignore. I can even agree that talking about the biggest screw up in Sacramento Kings history should be in one spot. But the deleted posts........were there personal attacks included in those posts? Is that why they were deleted? Just curious.........

Regarding the Luca debate, it’s never going away. The more time that passes, the more it’s only going to get worse. I hope the ones who hate it the most learn to live with it because it is going to be IMPOSSIBLE to ignore. The more posts that are deleted......The further you banish the discussion to the nether regions of this site......It just makes Kings fans.com look bad. The worst decision in Kings history cannot be ignored because it’s repercussions will continue to be felt for the next decade. All my personal opinion of course.

I’d like to add that even though VF told the crew that hates this discussion to stay out if they don’t like it, we all know they will be here reading every single one of the “pro doncic” posts. I’m just hoping we “pro doncic” fans aren’t labeled and attacked because of our thoughts on this subject.
 
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#14
Luka Doncic will haunt this franchise and this forum for a long time wether people like it or not. It was a unique situation where we seriously lucked into a #2 pick. The fanbase was sure that they were going to get this awesome talent in Luka, it looked like after all this suffering we suddenly could turn the page and become a real contending team with all this potential+Luka. Unfortunately it wasnt the case.

The choise in this draft should've really been easy from the beginning. You had a true ball handling creator wing with a reliable track record. For some unknown reason we decided to go with defensively challenged big man that had some questions with his basketball IQ and his off hand. Yeah Bagley isnt a bad prospect but compared to what we coud've had its not really even a comparison. Vlade has done some great, good, bad and awfull moves but this was a fireble decision. Seriously.

This particular draft was one of the worst of this franchise (and it tells a lot) because for some reason we missed the really obvious pick that could've really turned this franchise around. After the draft people said "you cant know how this will turn out so lets wait a bit". During the season the same thing: "Lukas abilites is probably capped now (and he was 19years old) and Bagley has so much more potential, lets wait some more." Finally this is probably clear to everyone and now people are saying "stop talking about it, its history and we cant change it". Thats cool but the magnitude of this mistake was so big that it will create discussion no matter what.

I have no idea what led to this huge mistake but IMO this scouting department staff should probably have some serious turnover. If year after year the consensus pick by fans ends up being better than what this disfunctional franchises decides to do, something has to change. Seriously.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#15
I knew the doncic debate touched a nerve but wow.............
I know it’s a touchy subject that most here want to ignore. I can even agree that talking about the biggest screw up in Sacramento Kings history should be in one spot. But the deleted posts........were there personal attacks included in those posts? Is that why they were deleted? Just curious.........

Regarding the Luca debate, it’s never going away. The more time that passes, the more it’s only going to get worse. I hope the ones who hate it the most learn to live with it because it is going to be IMPOSSIBLE to ignore. The more posts that are deleted......The further you banish the discussion to the nether regions of this site......It just makes Kings fans.com look bad. The worst decision in Kings history cannot be ignored because it’s repercussions will continue to be felt for the next decade. All my personal opinion of course.

I’d like to add that even though VF told the crew that hates this discussion to stay out if they don’t like it, we all know they will be here reading every single one of the “pro doncic” posts. I’m just hoping we “pro doncic” fans aren’t labeled and attacked because of our thoughts on this subject.
What the what? You've got a thread to talk about Doncic. We mods have already said there won't be any attacks or does this not say what I think it says?

No flaming, no name-calling, no comments about Doncic not being a King, etc. If you enter this thread and attempt to stir the pot, you will be locked out of the thread.
Do not underestimate our resolve in this regard. As far as the deleted posts go, THREE MODS have been involved. If the posts were deleted, it's because they should have been. To be blunt, it's not open for discussion.

If any of you have further questions about mod actions, send any of us a PM.
 
#17
Vlade essentially drafted a running back at the top of the draft when the obvious franchise quarterback was there for the taking. People are going to want to say well we already had the franchise quarterback in Fox but in this sport you can play two of them at the same time. In fact it's what many of the championship level teams do.
If it came down to the fact they could not play together (which I'm sure they could have) you had to give it a try and if it fails simple trade one and Fox/Doncic would fetch you far more than Bagley.
 
#20
If it came down to the fact they could not play together (which I'm sure they could have) you had to give it a try and if it fails simple trade one and Fox/Doncic would fetch you far more than Bagley.
I dont see why they wouldn't have. Fox can shoot the ball. Especially when he gets set up and doesn't have to shoot off the dribble.
 
#22
Do I think Vlade screwed up? Yeah, unless something surprising happens, I'd say he did. But, several months after Vlade picked Bagley over Doncic, Vivek gave him a contract that runs through mid-2023. So, what now? I mean, seriously, what now? Circulate a fan petition for Vivek to start spanking Vlade as halftime entertainment? I agree with those who aren't happy about it, I just don't see any sort of useful direction to take that discussion in, so I quickly run out of things to say about it.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#23
Vlade’s getting axed for this choice. Pesky contracts have never stopped this team from firing guys before.

I think they will give a chance to admit defeat and “step down” like he promised he would if we kept being bad. (He said that at one point, right?)
 
#24
There’s no reason why they wouldn’t have. It’s just one of the excuses people are trying to convince themselves would have been a real thing.

On that note? I take Luka over Fox right now. 10 times out of 10.
Agreed and that's the thing too Luka is better than Fox. That's obvious by now. We're still waiting for Fox to play with consistency, fire, and a sense of urgency. Luka doesnt have that problem. Some nights Fox looks like a star, other nights he just looks like a starting point guard on a bad team. Some nights he looks like he's just not engaged.

Same goes for Marvin Bagley. I think he's more consistent and reliable than Fox but nothing about Bagley screams superstar to me. He doesn't create anything for anybody else. Just a very good PF that can finish, rebound, and be a good compliment to the best player. I always thought the Amar'e Stoudemire comparisons to Bagley were ridiculous because Bagley doesn't play with the same ferocity or hunger that young Amar'e did. Bagley is actually more skilled than Stoudemire at the same age and a better rebounder but nobody finished around the rim in traffic like Amar'e did his first few seasons. He just exploded towards the rim.

As for Luka. Whether he's having a good shooting night or bad one, you never question whether or not Luka is "the guy". His game is so smooth and advanced along with his confidence......you watch him play it's obvious he's the man on his team. Every team knows it too and sets their defense around trying to stop him......and yet they have a hard time. How many 19-20 year olds are beating all the defensive scouting reports against them based on sheer skill and basketball IQ?
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#25
Vlade’s getting axed for this choice. Pesky contracts have never stopped this team from firing guys before.

I think they will give a chance to admit defeat and “step down” like he promised he would if we kept being bad. (He said that at one point, right?)
Come on. This is a totally different discussion. Suffice to say Vlade is not going to be fired and he's not going to step down. But whatever. I'm not getting dragged in again.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#26
Come on. This is a totally different discussion. Suffice to say Vlade is not going to be fired and he's not going to step down. But whatever. I'm not getting dragged in again.
I wouldn't waste my time trying to argue whether or not Divac should be fired over the pick, but I do distinctly recall him saying something about stepping down, if the Kings hadn't met some sort of milestone, by the end of this season.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#27
I wouldn't waste my time trying to argue whether or not Divac should be fired over the pick, but I do distinctly recall him saying something about stepping down, if the Kings hadn't met some sort of milestone, by the end of this season.
Did he say something? Yes. Was it a promise or a blood oath? Nope. /endofmyparticipationinthis
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#28
This is interesting. I run a business and in business, you don't sweep mistakes under the rug and ignore them. Pretend they don't exist. Particularly when there are long term ramifications. Emotion plays no part. You are constantly looking to improve and learn from your mistakes. The definition of a mistake can be subjective yet as a practice, I regularly make a habit of tracking the results of decisions and weighing them vs our competitors.

Why would the NBA be any different?

Objectively speaking, passing on Luka was a highly questionable decision. Throw draft day emotion out the window and simply chart results from draft day until today. Luka has been a better player than anyone on the current Kings roster. In this case, it isn't simply Luka vs Bagley. It's the decision of bypassing building around Luka because Fox is considered the cornerstone. As of today, few, if any would choose Fox as a cornerstone over Luka.

Bypassing Luka was one of the most important decisions this franchise made spanning a multi-year period and the results impact the next decade. What business or those involved in such a business would decide that topic isn't worth discussing?

Why, if there was a potential massive screwup, would people not hold those responsible for the decision to answer to it?

The same people who passed on Luka, fired Joerger and are currently presiding over an 0-3 team which has lost by 25+ points twice, while none of the other 29 NBA teams combined have lost by 25 points once.

If this type of mismanagement, these red flags happen within my company or countless other private organizations, everything is put on the table and dissected.

But the fans of a team who haven't made the playoffs since '06 can't discuss a potential massive mistake, which is effecting the team here and now, on the main forums.

I'm generally amused that "I'm tired of hearing about Luka" is a valid argument.

The team hasn't made the playoffs since '06 and I'm sick of the repeat mismanagement appears like a more valid argument.