AleksandarN
Starter
VF21 said:
He has the drive to suceed, not many on this team has though. He also can waive the no trade cause just like Webber did for the Philly trade.
OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)
- Thread starter CaminoChaos
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He has the drive to suceed, not many on this team has though. He also can waive the no trade cause just like Webber did for the Philly trade.
Webber didn't have a "no trade" clause. What he had, and waived, was a "trade kicker" requiring that he be paid a percentage of his remaining salary up front in the event of a trade. BIG DIFFERENCE. According to realGM, Kobe not only has a "no trade" clause, he also has a "trade kicker." Meaning he gets to approve any trade AND he gets bucks up front. That makes him close to untouchable by any but the most desperate under-the-cap team AND there's no way he'd go somewhere like that.
I cannot see the Lakers trading us Kobe Bryant under any circumstances. If he did get moved it would almost certainly be to the East.
I cannot see the Lakers trading us Kobe Bryant under any circumstances. If he did get moved it would almost certainly be to the East.
VF21 said:
Easy to say because there's no way the Lakers trade him.
But let's be real, VF. Ego aside, Kobe is arguably one of the best in the game. Any GM would salivate over the thought of him donning their team's uni.
And if people are willing to discuss trading for a headcase like Artest, acquiring a future Hall member like Kobe doesn't seem out of the question.
I know I'd be foaming at the mouth if Kobe came north...
As we discuss this trade or that one I think we all agree that any players we acquire should fit our system, the Princeton offense. But until yesterday we didn't even know if our system might not be the Triangle offense. Now we know, and as the unknowns become fewer we can talk more intelligently about different scenarios. But perhaps a more fundamental question must be asked...is the Princeton offense capable of winning it all in the NBA? Sure, it is prolific at scoring when practiced by the competent and trained. But does it not have a serious flaw? It appears to me that either the system or the people we have running it at present are woefully inept at transition defense meaning we give up a lot of fast break points. Well, irregardless it now appears that our system will remain the same thereby limiting whom we acquire. But we best get guys who can get back on D...because even the best teams seldom shoot much over .500 per night making defense the more important aspect of play.
chelle
Starter
Rowdyone said:
No doubt that we need better defense and need to trade to make that happen. However, I wish the "analysts" would decide what they believe. All season we have heard "Offense wins games but defense wins championships." Now, during the Finals, I keep hearing them say, "A great offense will beat a great defense everytime." So which is it? Of course, I really don't like most of what the TV guys say anyway.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
VF21 said:
The Utah trade isnt half bad. You combine it with the Kenny Thomas to NJ for Cliff Robinson and #15... and the Kings have 3 draft picks in a deep draft:
Bibby, Jackson, #27
#23, Giriceck, Snyder
Peja, Harpring (who could also start at 2)
#15, Skinner, Cliff
Miller, Tag
The draft picks could be used like this:
Big man at #15: Villnuaeva, Taft, Diogu, May
Shooting guard at #23: Hodge, McCants, Fernandez, Garcia, Staudemire
Point Guard at #27: Jack
That's hardly giving up the future. That's creating one.
Of course, the problem with this deal is that Mobley would have to be signed and traded, meaning that this would have to take place after the draft, and Utah would have to effectively pick for the Kings, so this deal isn't gonna happen anyway.
I don't think the Memphis deal is all that terrible either, but I would like to get Mike Miller or resign Cat to make up for losing Peja's shooting.
Well you need to score points to win and you need to stop your opponent froms scoring points to win too. So what you really need is the right mix of offense and defense to come out on top. If you can't blow everybody out (like Phoenix did this year) than you've got to be able to make stops at the end of the game. Detroit is losing in the finals because even when they make stops, they can't convert on the other end of the floor. That's probably what the analysts mean when they say "a great offense will beat a great defense every time". I tend to think that's true actually, or at least partially true. Even the best defense can't stop you from making shots if you execute your offense well. They can't guard everybody at the same time equally. There's going to be a hole somewhere and a great offense will find that hole and exploit it. But there's a difference between a good offense and a great offense and while a great offense probably wins over any defense, a good offense won't fair nearly as well. If you aren't on the top of your game every night, you're going to need to play defense. Or if one or two key guys goes down, that really compromises your offense considerably (look at what happened to Phoenix without Joe Johnson or the Kings the past few years without, well, everybody). You're making it really tough on your offense if you can't play some defense. And the better defense you play, the better chance you give yourself of winning with your offense. That's the key to the Spurs' success. They play defense, but they execute offensively too.
SactoGreg said:
I don't want him. It's my opinion and I stated it as such.
I'd be foaming at the mouth, too... but I think we're speaking about different causes of the same reaction.
Let's be real? I am being real. I DO NOT WANT KOBE BRYANT on the SACRAMENTO KINGS! That's about as real as I can get.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
VF21 said:
WORD!!!
When the day comes that the term "Sacramento Basketball" refers to a selfish, one man show I will welcome Kobe with open arms because he is the best at it (stat wise). But untill that day, Im with VF. I would no longer be a Kings fan if Kobe joined the team. I dont like how he plays, I dont like him personally and he is not and never will be the missing piece that we need to win a championship.
BRING IN KG!!! Thats who we need and who I would love to see on the team. Rumor has it the Lakers are going to make a move at KG. Thats probably meaningless but thats just something I heard.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
VF21 said:
Yah I think an ESPN bradcaster tossed it in at one point during Phil's press conference. Lets hope we get our hands on him and not the Lakers.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Bibby_Is_Clutch said:
That would be a colossal indictment of our front office if we were to allow the Lakers to bring in KG. No idea at all if he's even on the market, but if he is, we can beat the Lakers best offer easily. To allow Phil to get his hands on his 2nd superstar for his two superstar system and just that quickly resurrect the Lakers right back into contention would just be terrible for a theoretical "rival". Getting our *** kicked by Phil again while he marches his team toward more title runs would just be humiliating when we could have stopped the move before it ever got going. It would expose our front office as risk averse ninnies.
More than that, it would be an indictment of epic proportions for the Minnesota front office if they dealt KG for any package from the Lakers that didn't include Kobe Bryant.
Bibby_Is_Clutch
Starter
Kevin could put us right into contention if we were to get him. Kevin, Bibby, and possibly Miller? Sounds good and if we can get a great draft pick that can produce right away and possibly start or come of the bench we could do real well.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Rowdyone said:
That's a real thought, with the Serbian connection to reenergize the fanbase the potential key. But I don't know that Bosh is even touchable for less than a superstar type player. Its possible he might be, but he's really the only good thing that poor franchise has going for it right now.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Sacramento Trades...
SF---Peja Stojakovic---20.1 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 2.1 APG
PF---Kenny Thomas---11.3 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 1.6 APG
Toronto Trades...
PF---Chris Bosh---16.8 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 1.9 APG
PG---Alvin Williams---Did not play
SF---Eric Williams---12.6 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 2.0 APG
Sacrmento Breakdown--- -2.0 Pts, +2.6 RPG, +0.2 APG
Well, Toronto hooks up with the Serbian fanbase by adding the best Serb in the league. Also gains a respectable double-double guy for the PF spot....They also rid themselves of a horrible contract in Alvin Williams.
Sacramento gets a young potential filled stud in Bosh. Eric Williams is that defensive roleplayer everyone in Sacramento always talks about...Alvin Williams is filler to make salaries match.
SF---Peja Stojakovic---20.1 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 2.1 APG
PF---Kenny Thomas---11.3 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 1.6 APG
Toronto Trades...
PF---Chris Bosh---16.8 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 1.9 APG
PG---Alvin Williams---Did not play
SF---Eric Williams---12.6 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 2.0 APG
Sacrmento Breakdown--- -2.0 Pts, +2.6 RPG, +0.2 APG
Well, Toronto hooks up with the Serbian fanbase by adding the best Serb in the league. Also gains a respectable double-double guy for the PF spot....They also rid themselves of a horrible contract in Alvin Williams.
Sacramento gets a young potential filled stud in Bosh. Eric Williams is that defensive roleplayer everyone in Sacramento always talks about...Alvin Williams is filler to make salaries match.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SLAB said:
Yeah, that's pretty close to the kind of deal I was fooling around with on RealGM before I was abruptly and irrationally called upon to do a little work on Friday.
I really don't think Eric Williams can help a good team much, and Alvin may have to retire because of injuries, but its the sort of deal you could maybe tempt Toronto into. Thing is we are actually giving up more talent than we are getting back, and just picking up random pieces again. But the youth and potential at the PF spot might well make it worth it. Kid put up 17 and 9 as a 20 yr old. Could be 20 and 10 for a long time.
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Diabeticwonder
Bench
Rowdyone said:
The idea of having Peja put more butts in the seats in Toronto would not last long at all. After a while it wouldn't matter who was playing for the Raptors if they were still a lousy team because people aren't going to go see a lame team play. However, if they became a better team more people would go to their games more so for the fact that they were winning rather than who was playing for them. I don't see Toronto making a deal to get Peja with the motivation being to sell more tickets. It's a nice thought, but practically speaking I don't think it would have the effect that some might think.
Bricklayer said:Yeah, that's pretty close to the kind of deal I was fooling around with on RealGM before I was abruptly and irrationally called upon to do a little work on Friday.
I really don't think Eric Williams can help a good team much, and Alvin may have to retire because of injuries, but its the sort of deal you could maybe tempt Toronto into. Thing is we are actually giving up more talent than we are getting back, and just picking up random pieces again. But the youth and potential at the PF spot might well make it worth it. Kid put up 17 and 9 as a 20 yr old. Could be 20 and 10 for a long time.
While I had quickly perused the situation but not come up with anything solid I, too, had looked at the same players. But something I've never understood is how does the league value draft choices...that is if we did a trade not using all of the above players but just the primary ones, Peja and Bosh, and then included draft positions prior to the draft. Could we do a Peja and our first choice for Bosh plus their first choice for instance?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Rowdyone said:
I'm not 100% sure, and my old link to the CBA has been pulled down (perhaps due to the current negotiations for a new one) so I can't check, but I think that draft picks are basically "free" and don't count at all dollarwise.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Entity said:
I don't think so. Bosh has a lot of potential but I think we would be much better sticking with Bibby and trying to build around him.
This trade would put us in the lottery. If thats what the maloofs wanted to do then this could be a good trade.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Entity said:
Thing is, and here again is the "Kingsfans lens effect", I'm not at all sure that the Raptors wouldn't consider BOSH the better player (not sure I wouldn't either, and in 3 years may be decisive). So if we wanted to pull a deal like that, think we would have to find a way to sweeten it for the Raptors by either taking a bad contract or giving them another piece they could use. Peja was 20 and 4 last year, and his ability to create his own shot on a bad team is very much open to question. Meanwhile Bosh went 17 and 9 at the ripe old age of 20, and is 8 years younger than Peja. Maybe Peja would be worth more to a team trying to win rightnow, but for a team in full rebuilding mode? Probably us who would have to do the sweetening.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Alright. So far in this thread we have exhausted almost every possiblity of filling the PF spot. Aside from giving up 2 of our "Core" nobody seems to agree on any of the trade scenerios as being equal for both teams. Although it never seems to be equal when they actually happen either, but i digrees. It seems that the only thing a few of us have agreed on is Kwame Brown. Only thing is i don't want to sign him for 1 year and he flourishes then wants this huge contract. I say we offer him a 3 or 4 year deal starting around the MLE area. Other than that I can't think of a PF that we can get. Or we better all be on pins and needles come June 28th and hope we get gem. Although Brown i believe would be better than any PF we could possibly get in the draft. So that being said then we can focus our attention on re-signing Darius as a backup and trading Thomas, Williamson, and #23 for a jam up SG. Also re-sign MO and Matt Barnes
Bibby, Jackson
????, Evans, Martin
Peja, Barnes
Brown, Songalia
Miller, Skinner, O-tag
Bibby, Jackson
????, Evans, Martin
Peja, Barnes
Brown, Songalia
Miller, Skinner, O-tag
Entity
Hall of Famer
We do still have one ray of hopw that is a sign and trade of Cuttion Mobley. If all parties agree it would be an idel scenerio. I know its been said that he will want a no trade clause and a long term deal. But think about it the CAT isn't exatly Lebron James. I can't think of any team that would sign him to a 4+ year deal and never have the option to trade him. This is a game of business and a team that agrees to that is screwing themselves. So yes i believe a sign and trade of Cuttino is still a possiblility.
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