Finally someone who agrees with what I have been thinking for the last couple years. Why have we not offered Peja for Pierce? He has been unhappy in Boston for at least the last year, and he has always been able to create his own shot unlike Peja. Plus I like the fact the Pierce is young and athletic. The other guy I like is Artest, but I know everyone is errie about trading for a guy with all kinds of psychological problems. I think a change of scenery might be what the guy needs.
Official: Trade Core Pool
- Thread starter CaminoChaos
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What, exactly, has Peja done for the Kings? He's been a great shooter, at times a joy to watch, and (until last season) a goofy guy that looked to be part of the winning team chemistry that attracted lots of people (okay, me) to the team.
But, honestly, in the grand scheme of things, has he really done anything that someone else couldn't have done? I can't point to a single success or failure over the past few years that was Peja's doing. Not a single one. He's had moments of complete brilliance, moments of maddening boneheadedness, trade demands, near-MVP seasons (according to some), legitimate questions about heart and dedication, and so on ad infinitum. Yet with all of that, Peja's time in Sac can pretty much be summed up with a resounding "Eh."
Am I oversimplifying? Perhaps. But not by much. The "what have you done for me lately?" argument is not a particularly strong one (and not at all the reason for my concerns about Peja), but its not entirely invalid. Frankly, it could be used regarding any of the current "core." Such is life without a superstar. The question, then, is not which of the three has done more for you, but which has the probability of doing more in the future. Given Peja's age (still considered in one's prime, but realistically, the dog's getting a bit old to learn more tricks), history of stagnant offseasons, and recent problems with "doing" basketball at home he's probably the low man on that totem pole.
Of course, all of this doesn't mean a damn thing with regards to the poll question, because the worrywart in me would probably predict that the head honchos have lost all common sense when it comes to Peja and will probably end up throwing the max at him in a year.
But, honestly, in the grand scheme of things, has he really done anything that someone else couldn't have done? I can't point to a single success or failure over the past few years that was Peja's doing. Not a single one. He's had moments of complete brilliance, moments of maddening boneheadedness, trade demands, near-MVP seasons (according to some), legitimate questions about heart and dedication, and so on ad infinitum. Yet with all of that, Peja's time in Sac can pretty much be summed up with a resounding "Eh."
Am I oversimplifying? Perhaps. But not by much. The "what have you done for me lately?" argument is not a particularly strong one (and not at all the reason for my concerns about Peja), but its not entirely invalid. Frankly, it could be used regarding any of the current "core." Such is life without a superstar. The question, then, is not which of the three has done more for you, but which has the probability of doing more in the future. Given Peja's age (still considered in one's prime, but realistically, the dog's getting a bit old to learn more tricks), history of stagnant offseasons, and recent problems with "doing" basketball at home he's probably the low man on that totem pole.
Of course, all of this doesn't mean a damn thing with regards to the poll question, because the worrywart in me would probably predict that the head honchos have lost all common sense when it comes to Peja and will probably end up throwing the max at him in a year.
I'm all for dealing Peja for Pierce, but PP is no spring chicken (in NBA terms) himself. He's the same age as Peja, 28. Dealing for Pierce isn't a step toward rebuilding, it's a retooling in the win-now mode. And I'm fine with that.
Of course, I wonder what Boston's approach to Pierce is at this point. If they want him out in order to start the full on youth movement, Peja & change is a great trade for them. His contract is up at the end of the year so they have the flexibility to let him go if the youngsters (Perkins, Jefferson, Green, West & co) really step up, or they could re-sign him if he proves a good fit.
On the other hand, Peja for Pierce is lopsided talent wise in the Kings favor, and I wonder if Boston couldn't find a better piece for their biggest trade asset. Of course, if the Celtics (as Doc Rivers said on draft night) really want to keep Pierce around, the whole disccusion is moot. Only if there is a mutual desire to get Pierce out of Beantown do I think the swap is at all plausible.
As for Artest, the discussion has been beat to death already, but I'll add this: this is the wrong time for Indiana to move him, even if they desperately want to (and I don't think they do). His trade value would be MUCH better if he can make it through a chunk of the season without an incident. Then, if the Pacers really want to move him, he can be dealt for a much better player/package.
Of course, I wonder what Boston's approach to Pierce is at this point. If they want him out in order to start the full on youth movement, Peja & change is a great trade for them. His contract is up at the end of the year so they have the flexibility to let him go if the youngsters (Perkins, Jefferson, Green, West & co) really step up, or they could re-sign him if he proves a good fit.
On the other hand, Peja for Pierce is lopsided talent wise in the Kings favor, and I wonder if Boston couldn't find a better piece for their biggest trade asset. Of course, if the Celtics (as Doc Rivers said on draft night) really want to keep Pierce around, the whole disccusion is moot. Only if there is a mutual desire to get Pierce out of Beantown do I think the swap is at all plausible.
As for Artest, the discussion has been beat to death already, but I'll add this: this is the wrong time for Indiana to move him, even if they desperately want to (and I don't think they do). His trade value would be MUCH better if he can make it through a chunk of the season without an incident. Then, if the Pacers really want to move him, he can be dealt for a much better player/package.
You could theoretically do that for Mike and Brad, although it means sacrificing yet another season to midseason turnover, but going into next season with Peja not dealt wih, or dealt, is highly dangerous. The power becomes all his. Half the teams basically drop off the trading partner board because they don't want to disrupt their teams midseason, and of the remaining half, Peja can absolutley veto any trade by merely saying he will not resign with the team he's being traded to. All of a sudden nobody ill give you anything significant for him because he's a 4 month rental You could end up reduced to a handful of teams looking for capspace as trading partners, and end up getting $.50 on the dollar, if that. or being stuck holding onto him going into an offseason where you KNOW he's going to demand the max, and there is almost sure to be some idiotic franchise like Atlanta around to desperately thrwo it at him. let alone places such as Chicago, Miami, or San Antonio who could all get themselves into positon to be serious bidders. 
These guys aren't rooks. They aren;t even young players anymore. They are 7, 8 year NBA vets entering the second half of their careers. If we don't know what we've got by now we just haven't been paying very good attention.
These guys aren't rooks. They aren;t even young players anymore. They are 7, 8 year NBA vets entering the second half of their careers. If we don't know what we've got by now we just haven't been paying very good attention.
what are you guys talking about ???
just a shooter ? how much attention he gets from opponent D. ? that means a lot too for other players, opens them up a little ... an it's not like he gets all the open shots, he rarely gets those (he plays against opponenets best defender most of the time) ... Peja is easy to replace buy some other 3-point guy ? I don't think Korver or Barry run and fight for the position like Peja ... I can only think of Reggie and Rip ... and You put a hand in Korvers or Barrys face and they often miss ... Peja is used to making these kind of shots
Peja is one of our best assets and most people want to see him fly from here
As i said before (let's judge him after this upcoming season)
just a shooter ? how much attention he gets from opponent D. ? that means a lot too for other players, opens them up a little ... an it's not like he gets all the open shots, he rarely gets those (he plays against opponenets best defender most of the time) ... Peja is easy to replace buy some other 3-point guy ? I don't think Korver or Barry run and fight for the position like Peja ... I can only think of Reggie and Rip ... and You put a hand in Korvers or Barrys face and they often miss ... Peja is used to making these kind of shots
Peja is one of our best assets and most people want to see him fly from here
As i said before (let's judge him after this upcoming season)
Well, I thought the poll would be one-sided but I didn't suspect it would be THIS one-sided. Apparently, a lot of people have become more than just a little disillusioned with Peja.
I don't know what he's doing this summer, but if the poll above is in ANY way indicative of the Kings fan base in general, it's a pretty telling statement that I hope Peja can do something positive about.
I don't know what he's doing this summer, but if the poll above is in ANY way indicative of the Kings fan base in general, it's a pretty telling statement that I hope Peja can do something positive about.
I'm sure there are quite a few people that feel that way, but I'm not sure that's the whole story as far as the poll is concerned. I didn't vote in the poll (I don't think anyway) but if I had I would have voted for Peja too. Not neccessarily because I think he's the most expendable, but because I think he's the most tradeable at this point.
His low cap number, concerns about his price next offseason (especially in light of Redd's deal), and his obviously marketable skill as a shooter make him the best bullet Petrie has in his clip. To be frank, Bibby and Miller are overpaid at this point and I doubt many teams covet them to same degree they would if they had more reasonable contracts.
If the question were more of a comparison of the three players, maybe something along the lines of: "Which of the Kings three main players do you think is most important to their success" you might still see Peja leading the poll but I doubt you'd get such a lopsided result.
For me it would be Bibby, Peja and then Miller. Perhaps my faith is misguided, but if Stojakovic is still on the roster come October, I am expecting a big season from him.
His low cap number, concerns about his price next offseason (especially in light of Redd's deal), and his obviously marketable skill as a shooter make him the best bullet Petrie has in his clip. To be frank, Bibby and Miller are overpaid at this point and I doubt many teams covet them to same degree they would if they had more reasonable contracts.
If the question were more of a comparison of the three players, maybe something along the lines of: "Which of the Kings three main players do you think is most important to their success" you might still see Peja leading the poll but I doubt you'd get such a lopsided result.
For me it would be Bibby, Peja and then Miller. Perhaps my faith is misguided, but if Stojakovic is still on the roster come October, I am expecting a big season from him.
Very well put. Peja is the most tradeable. And he's less crucial than Bibby and Miller to keep "Kings-ball" going on offense so he feels more expendible. But that doesn't mean that Bibby is necessarily better than Peja or Miller is better than Peja, etc. etc. or that Peja deserves to be singled out more than Miller and Bibby by Kings fans. Everyone has to step it up next year, not just the scapegoat du jour.
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I certainly understand all your points but I think there is also a factor of disillusionment that has to be considered... People who are perfectly happy with a player will generally find a way to defend keeping him, especially when there are two other choices in a poll. The question might have been pretty inocuous but I strongly suspect the responses aren't based solely on pure objectivity.
I find this to be faulty reasoning: looking to the past is not better than doing nothing.
You say that as if there are players which we could acquire that could emulate the talents of the players we had, which made that team what it was? How do you figure? You said in a later post that you don't think that it would be hard to find a replacement for Divac? Okay emded0341, I'll bite: who is this miracle player? What is his name, and who does he play for?
Why? That team didn't do anything remarkable, the record be damned; that team wasn't going to beat anybody decent in the playoffs.
I'm sure that there are a host of "good passing" centers that are just waiting for Petrie to call them. The last time I checked, there were exactly two "good passing" centers besides Divac in the NBA, and one of them already plays for the Kings. There are probably three "good passing" PF's in the league, but we already traded one of them, and one of the remaining two is virtually unattainable.
Actually, the year that the Kings were "best ever," Stojakovic was not there (at least, as far as the playoffs are concerned).
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a little late for that.
You say that as if there are players which we could acquire that could emulate the talents of the players we had, which made that team what it was? How do you figure? You said in a later post that you don't think that it would be hard to find a replacement for Divac? Okay emded0341, I'll bite: who is this miracle player? What is his name, and who does he play for?
Why? That team didn't do anything remarkable, the record be damned; that team wasn't going to beat anybody decent in the playoffs.
I'm sure that there are a host of "good passing" centers that are just waiting for Petrie to call them. The last time I checked, there were exactly two "good passing" centers besides Divac in the NBA, and one of them already plays for the Kings. There are probably three "good passing" PF's in the league, but we already traded one of them, and one of the remaining two is virtually unattainable.
Actually, the year that the Kings were "best ever," Stojakovic was not there (at least, as far as the playoffs are concerned).
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's a little late for that.
oh no no no.....offcourse...its totally true....before webebr came back kings didnt play that good ...no no...they were not number 1 in nba and all experts pointing them out as favourites in playoffs and saying when webber came back they could even not imagine how good than they would be...oh no no....Come on man, how could you be a kings fan and say that????!!!!!! How could you say you didnt believe that they would won that year ????!!! They played outstandig basketball....how many times didnt they finish games in the 1 quarter???!!! passing the other team out, getting ahead 15 points in the first and just holding that to the end... how can you be a kings fan and dont believe your team will win???? !!!! I didnt say it will be easy to get a big man who can pass, but i still think its possible....there are also players other places you can sign besides them already playing in nba...!!!! i dont have his name, but im sure you can find one who is good to pass. the ball....Im sure kings also will sign him if they find him...because they lost vlade and webber which both could pass, so its obvious they need a player with this ability on the PF or C spot
I just cant understand what is happening for this board???!! Where are some comments about you loving the players on your team....EVERYTHING on this site is about weekness of kings players, which one should be traded, what should we trade , making differences....Well let me say you one thing, the best difference would be to you guys change little bit and see the positive about this team!!!!! That is the best difference to this team....It means alot to the players teir fans believe in them, and they could easy being here on this site and reading this too!!!! And if you not believe in them, offcourse this will make the life harder for them!!!
I have come here to read some posts that praise this players i love to watch in the tv ...they are guds to me.....but the only thing i read here is people who should suppose to fans of kings, only talking about who of them we should trade, their week spots and so on.......
Its terrible....You can only say here peja cant rebound and so on....but you cant praise him what he has done for kings and being probably the best shooter ever, definitely one of them....What i have get to know, its that with he has been the most underpaid player ( with respect to his stats and so on) with the his contract with kings until now, so dont talk about money either!!!
And worse of all , you all say kings cant win the playoffs!!! A fan real should believe in that even if the whole world was saying how much this team sucks and thay dont even have a teoretical chance to win...a real fan would still believe in his team!!!! And the worse thing is: Kings are one of the better teams in nba, according to experts not favourites, but an outsider, and even than you dont believe in your team!!!??? What is that attitude??
I want to read some posts by kings fan praising their players, and believing in them
I have come here to read some posts that praise this players i love to watch in the tv ...they are guds to me.....but the only thing i read here is people who should suppose to fans of kings, only talking about who of them we should trade, their week spots and so on.......
Its terrible....You can only say here peja cant rebound and so on....but you cant praise him what he has done for kings and being probably the best shooter ever, definitely one of them....What i have get to know, its that with he has been the most underpaid player ( with respect to his stats and so on) with the his contract with kings until now, so dont talk about money either!!!
And worse of all , you all say kings cant win the playoffs!!! A fan real should believe in that even if the whole world was saying how much this team sucks and thay dont even have a teoretical chance to win...a real fan would still believe in his team!!!! And the worse thing is: Kings are one of the better teams in nba, according to experts not favourites, but an outsider, and even than you dont believe in your team!!!??? What is that attitude??
I want to read some posts by kings fan praising their players, and believing in them
when you say those things about the player on kings team, and he doesnt get traded, what will you do than when the season begins???? So you say bad things about them in the offseason and than suddenly you can like all the guys when the games start again.........dont understand this philosophy .....just beacuse all other does this, it doesnt matter YOU should do it.....
we hope for a trade in the offseason, but when the season starts we'll just go with what we have and cheer em on because we ARE real fans. i like ripping players that can't get it done. who cares. this is the time for everyone to vent and express themselves during the open market. i want to see a bigger and more physical team next year. will I, i don't know, but im keeping my fingers crossed
No you are not real fans......here where i come from , fans of soccer teams would never say something bad about their players...they love them as they were gods, and make songs to them!!!! if someone else says something bad about your team or players, then a fight its going to happen,its like saying something bad about my mother!! But to hear things like this on a board for kins "fans", that is really crazy.... even though its the most obvious fact, if you are a fan you dont tell this !! you dont even think about it.....You look on the positive site and you dont change your mind in offseason and season...maybe proposing a trade with player that hasnt done alot of kings , who is always on beanch, thats something different, but just even mentioning one of these big 3 players should be traded, thats is insane...!!! if i were living in sac i would start my own fanclub, thats for sure, we would be behind the basket singing about those players whole game with lights and everything ...these 3 players ARE one very big part of kings, they should be praised...never making any fact about their week spots.....!!!
T
So you are saying that you also know Peja can't rebound, but we should all keep quiet about it? Saying someone isn't a fan because they point out a flaw is quite moronic. Making songs to them just sounds wrong, on many levels. Everyone here knows the teams strengths/weaknesses and loves to discuss them, thats why everyone is here. To say everyone should be positive 100% of the time is insane. Take off your jaded eyewear and look at the whole picture, positive and negative. You are coming off more negative than anyone else here, saying who is and isn't a fan. Give it a rest.