Now I'm worried again.... no bench
- Thread starter CruzDude
- Start date
This is quite simply NOT CORRECT. If you were in Sacramento, you would know that Pedja and his teammates are getting along VERY WELL - on the court and on the bench. The vaunted chemistry is back, and it appears better than ever. You are speaking without any basis in fact whatsoever.Zyphen said:
Kingsgurl
Starter
Gerald didn't play here, but it's niave to think he didn't improve any in his stint here either. Unfortunately for Gerald, he just didn't fit. He did, in fact, get opportunity here. In fact, I would say he was a huge reason the Kings did not more actively pursue re-signing Jimmy Jackson, as his presence was retarding Wallaces developement, remember? Also his numbers, on an expansion team with few scoring options, have been inconsistent and rather disappointing.
I will give you that I, too, am often frustrated with Adelman's rotations as far as the rookies go. I want to see Kevin get more minutes, for example. But I think he is bringing him along in practice and his time will come. It's a fine line between getting the rooks playing time, and getting W's. Adelman usually errs on the side of caution, giving the team better seeding, but limiting the effectiveness of the young kids should we need them in the Play-Offs. Then again, if we DO need them in the Play0Offs, we are most likely, looking at a key injury and not in good shape anyway.
Thanks for tracking my University of Virginia box. I was home for Thanksgiving but unfortunately I'm staying put for Christmas (senior thesis). Also it seems you're quite the detective to manage to discern my sources of information somehow. I am amazed. I particularly enjoyed the patronizing capitilization of key words.VF21 said:
Well, great. I can tell this is where to stop. You've presented the fact that he has not withdrawn his trade request in the best possible light with discrediting overtones. I withdraw all my previous statements and tip my hat off to the forum moderator. I hope I haven't been labeled a troll yet? Wasn't aware I had to go back to Cal. to have an opinion.
*waits for the media frenzy since statements were just withdrawn*
bozzwell
Starter
Kingsgurl said:
Alrighty then. Does that mean that if we're blowing teams away in the play-offs Mike will lose his motivation, or if we're reinstated as the No1 in the league and the team to beat that Webber and Bobby will have difficulty getting themselves pumped-up? Of course not, they will find something else to motivate themselves. I am sure it's never that simple, yet reporters and media need that one sound-bite, that "handle" that they can put on a player.
I am sure there was a time when Pedja was motivated by simply making a team so he can help his family (when he was a 15 year old refugee from war), when he was well paid MVP in Greece he was certainly motivated by his desire to make it to the "show" (NBA) and to compete with the best players in the World. Then he probably found his motivation trying to break into starting five for the Kings. Then making an All Star game, winning WC's etc., etc. There is only two things that could possibly motivate him right now: Winning an NBA championship ring and earning it. I am sure he shares that trait with Chris, Mike and Bobby. Of course I am only guessing.
There is no plausible explanation that could attribute his drop off in performance this year by his motivation or lack thereof to any significant degree. If this was his contract year and if he was tearing it up every game would you be suspicious of his motivation? As in - he is only doing it now so he can get a career contract with someone other then the Kings?
It has been speculated endlessly on this board on the subject of "What is wrong with Pedja" since the season began. I am yet to find more plausible explanation then a combination of these factors: Kings overall as a team going through a period of some non-trivial adjustments; Pedja having his first summer off ever (no National team bball), becoming a new father and a husband; something or somebody pissing him off so much that he asks for a trade (and two less then memorable snipes - "window has closed" and "anywhere but here" - I choose to believe that he was hiding his real reasons and poorly covering it up with those passive agressive stylings).
So, ultimately the rest of this season will provide all the answers. Especially in play offs.
Whatever. You can choose to believe me or not. If you want to think he's still unhappy and still wanting to leave, that's fine.Zyphen said:
I like Pedja and admire him for his talents. I think he listened to some bad advice, which prompted him to take his "demand" for a trade public when, if it was really what he wanted, he should have been dealing with the Kings privately - like an adult.
You are the one who cited the Serbian media. If you feel they have more of a pulse on what's happening in Sacramento on a daily basis, then that's fine, too.
Everything about the team is subject to interpretation. I have some sources that I trust and I repeat what I can when I can on this board. If you choose not to believe me, that - too - is fine.
If you want to belittle me with sarcasm, hey guess what? That's fine, too.
Have a nice day.
I know you were discussing this with Kingsgurl, but since it's something she and I have talked about several times, I thought I'd add my three cents:bozzwell said:
With almost everyone else on the team, it's fairly obvious they play the game because they love it. They're good at it, they make lots of money at it - true. But, bottom line, they LOVE the game.
With Pedja, it's different. As you pointed out, the game of basketball has been a tool for him. It helped him help his family; it has provided him with satisfaction at the International level, which I understand is much more important to most Europeans than an NBA title. But is it a passion with him or a job? That's why we wonder what his motivation is...
We've wondered that if it's a job and NOT a passion, maybe he just needed a vacation - which he finally got this summer.
I think, regardless of what caused the problems in the off-season, it is clear that Pedja is back at least mentally into being a Sacramento King. It's pretty easy to spot - his skills may not be totally at peak but he's interacting with the team, the fans, etc.
At this point I think the question can be laid to rest. Unless he's an extremely good actor - which I do not believe after those GOOD FEET commercials - he's being pretty honest about his feelings for his teammates, his family, his life here, etc. The drama is over - I'm hoping there won't be a sequel.
Kingsgurl
Starter
See, I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with Peja. I just was idly wondering what his motivation stems from. He isn't vocal about it like some of the others, doesn't have that burning desire (maybe he does and just doesn't vocalize it?) I'm a little tired of the passive/aggresiveness, he needs to go out and smack someone back. MAybe a good hard shiver or two to Bowen, or Hassel or one of the myraid of other defenders who have figured out if you get in his grill and hold him you can take him out of his game. Peja has had it very good here. Candyland, as a team-mate put it. This year was the first year he heard HIS name bandied about with the play-off choker label and he didn't like it. This is the first time the golden boy has been critized here publicly. He CAN prove people wrong, but not by running away, which was his first response.bozzwell said:
bozzwell
Starter
VF21 said:I know you were discussing this with Kingsgurl, but since it's something she and I have talked about several times, I thought I'd add my three cents:
With almost everyone else on the team, it's fairly obvious they play the game because they love it. They're good at it, they make lots of money at it - true. But, bottom line, they LOVE the game.
With Pedja, it's different. As you pointed out, the game of basketball has been a tool for him. It helped him help his family; it has provided him with satisfaction at the International level, which I understand is much more important to most Europeans than an NBA title. But is it a passion with him or a job? That's why we wonder what his motivation is...
We've wondered that if it's a job and NOT a passion, maybe he just needed a vacation - which he finally got this summer.
I think, regardless of what caused the problems in the off-season, it is clear that Pedja is back at least mentally into being a Sacramento King. It's pretty easy to spot - his skills may not be totally at peak but he's interacting with the team, the fans, etc.
At this point I think the question can be laid to rest. Unless he's an extremely good actor - which I do not believe after those GOOD FEET commercials - he's being pretty honest about his feelings for his teammates, his family, his life here, etc. The drama is over - I'm hoping there won't be a sequel.
Thanks for the explanation VF, now it makes sense to me what was Kingsgurl getting at. I will agree that Pedja seems to lack assertiveness and the drive that other players at his level display. I thought we were still questioning his overall motivation and it's implication that he is malcontent.
Just for your reference, on Serbian basketball forums it's pretty much 50-50. Pedja boosters say it's all Webb's/Bibby's or RA's fault. Pedja haters say it is because Pedja is... actually I am not gonna translated that - let's just say that he is accused of lacking the drive to be the best that he can be. I simply don't know.
Also, it used to be "the most imprtant thing" - beating a Dream Team and winning WC's or Olympics. It's all "who is going to be the first Serbian to with NBA ring and deserve it" now. Darko Milicic obviously doesn't count.
It's only my personal impressions and passions run very high on Serbian forums after every Kings' loss. Just like here...
bozzwell
Starter
Kingsgurl said:
Has this been brought up before? I totally agree with you that the last season may have been first time ever that Pedja encountered some adversity in his basketball life that was not injury related. It actually makes a lot of sense.
I also agree about smacking... I mean a shiver or two in the direction of a defender trying to mate with him. Not that I would ever encourage a dirty play, but...
KP
Starter
You know you're right the Kings(And Rick) have never ever had a productive bench, never...not ! Ever heard of the Bench Mob?? When he had the players Rick played them. Right now he doesn't have confidence in them. I agree with you though, we do need to use our bench more. But we need the guys on it to be more productive. Hopefully we'll pick someone up or the guys we do have will step up more. We can't contend with the deeper stronger teams in the west until we have a 2nd unit that has jelled more and really has an identity all its own.R1LOVER said:
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
Was amazing vs Indiana, the Pacers looked like they had the deeper bench
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
I'm not panicking yet, but I do see Matt Barnes slumping and who knows how long it will take for maturity to set in and for him to regain consistency on a nightly basis, not every 2 or 3 games. I'm sure Petrie is mulling as we speak...too bad Gary Trent has a poor work ethic, from what the some analysts say, he would be a good fit here, would kind of bring us a Fortson situation that has changed Seattle's attitude. Courtney Alexander might be good to bring back, but who knows if hw would ever be healthy enough to play on a nightly basis. Difinetely no on Eddie House, he shoots himself crazy every game, we dont need that type of player off the bench, we already have Bobby for that type of energy. Not too sure if Evans or Daniels are ready for to be promoted to key bench player yet, either.
KingKong
Starter
bozzwell said:Also, it used to be "the most imprtant thing" - beating a Dream Team and winning WC's or Olympics. It's all "who is going to be the first Serbian to with NBA ring and deserve it" now. Darko Milicic obviously doesn't count.
Wasn't Kukoc the first Serbian to win an NBA ring? Pedja will have to settle for the 3rd Serbian after Milicic...
albeitrue
Bench
Wow, heavy thread.
Okay, here's my thought on the bench. Use 'em. Please, for the love of GAWD, use them.
There will be injury - anyone else think about the last 3 when Peja went down? Evans, Martin & Daniels, one at a time maybe (hey, everyone else has ideas) playing some crucial, translation: IMPORTANT game minutes will render them that much more (?) useful to step up when the injury occurs.
Okay, all sarcasm aside, I think Adelman should use the deep bench much more.
I just have to give my 2 cents about Peja. Peja is a person who none of us knows. We don't know what his favorite color is or even what his coffee preference is. How can we possibly know what motivates him? Geez...
Chris has made a valiant effort in befriending Peja, according to the pictures and on-camera 'cameos'. What happens on the court should be professional, and it seems it is. There is no possible way, barring a fullscale investigation into Peja's life, that we will EVER know what he is thinking, feeling and/or being motivated by.
Let's get real here...life is short, take everything at face value.
Thank you, and have a good day.
Okay, here's my thought on the bench. Use 'em. Please, for the love of GAWD, use them.
There will be injury - anyone else think about the last 3 when Peja went down? Evans, Martin & Daniels, one at a time maybe (hey, everyone else has ideas) playing some crucial, translation: IMPORTANT game minutes will render them that much more (?) useful to step up when the injury occurs.
Okay, all sarcasm aside, I think Adelman should use the deep bench much more.
I just have to give my 2 cents about Peja. Peja is a person who none of us knows. We don't know what his favorite color is or even what his coffee preference is. How can we possibly know what motivates him? Geez...
Chris has made a valiant effort in befriending Peja, according to the pictures and on-camera 'cameos'. What happens on the court should be professional, and it seems it is. There is no possible way, barring a fullscale investigation into Peja's life, that we will EVER know what he is thinking, feeling and/or being motivated by.
Let's get real here...life is short, take everything at face value.
Thank you, and have a good day.
KingKong
Starter
albeitrue said:Wow, heavy thread.
Okay, here's my thought on the bench. Use 'em. Please, for the love of GAWD, use them.
There will be injury - anyone else think about the last 3 when Peja went down? Evans, Martin & Daniels, one at a time maybe (hey, everyone else has ideas) playing some crucial, translation: IMPORTANT game minutes will render them that much more (?) useful to step up when the injury occurs.
Okay, all sarcasm aside, I think Adelman should use the deep bench much more.
I just have to give my 2 cents about Peja. Peja is a person who none of us knows. We don't know what his favorite color is or even what his coffee preference is. How can we possibly know what motivates him? Geez...
Chris has made a valiant effort in befriending Peja, according to the pictures and on-camera 'cameos'. What happens on the court should be professional, and it seems it is. There is no possible way, barring a fullscale investigation into Peja's life, that we will EVER know what he is thinking, feeling and/or being motivated by.
Let's get real here...life is short, take everything at face value.
Thank you, and have a good day.
I have to agree here. It really is all about perception and biases that can easily mask the truth. Pedja's motivation is as elusive as Webb's motivation. Yes some of this can be determined through words and actions, but nobody really knows but the players themselves. Everything should be taken at face-value but it also human nature not to do so.
BTW, albeitrue love the signature. She was one tough and shrewd lady in her time.
Evenstar
Starter
good points on the bench. we need another front court guy the most IMO because when you factor in the oh 10 games or so ( or more) that webber will miss ( not a bash, it's a fact, he is afragile guy, has never played a full 82 games, and usually misses around 10 games a year) that should be a priority, preferably someone who can BANG and REBOUND!!!!!
the kings bench isn't bad, it's just not as good as it used to be, and it's pretty inconsistant. hopefully they gel as the season goes along, i think they have potential to be better.
the peja situation is baffling to me. he's on a NBA basketball team, what more modivation does he need?!?!?! geez, one thing learned from the woofs game, just look at the passion KG has. if peja had one ounce of that passion, with the talent he has shooting the ball, he could be so much better then he is. it's becoming more apparent that they elite teams in the west have found a way to stop him. look at his games vs the woofs and the spurs. whatever it is those ( bowen and hassell) whether it's legal moves or not, the refs don't call the fouls ( on the questionable defense ) , so they can take peja out of the game. whining about it isn't going to do anything but make the refs ignore it even more. they've adjusted to peja, it's time for peja to adjust to them. also the not rebounding is getting REALLY old. it's annoying the living crap out of me. quit being a pansy, get your butt in the paint, and REBOUND! i'm just really frurstraded with peja right now. it's really irks me that he hasn't gotten to the free throw line in 2 STRAIGHT GAMES!!!
* ends rant*
the kings bench isn't bad, it's just not as good as it used to be, and it's pretty inconsistant. hopefully they gel as the season goes along, i think they have potential to be better.
the peja situation is baffling to me. he's on a NBA basketball team, what more modivation does he need?!?!?! geez, one thing learned from the woofs game, just look at the passion KG has. if peja had one ounce of that passion, with the talent he has shooting the ball, he could be so much better then he is. it's becoming more apparent that they elite teams in the west have found a way to stop him. look at his games vs the woofs and the spurs. whatever it is those ( bowen and hassell) whether it's legal moves or not, the refs don't call the fouls ( on the questionable defense ) , so they can take peja out of the game. whining about it isn't going to do anything but make the refs ignore it even more. they've adjusted to peja, it's time for peja to adjust to them. also the not rebounding is getting REALLY old. it's annoying the living crap out of me. quit being a pansy, get your butt in the paint, and REBOUND! i'm just really frurstraded with peja right now. it's really irks me that he hasn't gotten to the free throw line in 2 STRAIGHT GAMES!!!
* ends rant*
LPKingsFan
All-Star
The Official Bench Mob, I recall, was Tony Delk/Darrick Martin, Jon Barry, Peja, Funderburke, and Pollard. Of course, that was when Nick Anderson and Corliss were starters, so of course we needed the bench to step up. Later on with Bobby, Hedo, Pollard, and of course Jabari, that was the Chalupa Squad.KP said:
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
Okay, someone got Gary Trent's #?? I've almost convinced he would be the one we should add. But who knows if he's even in any kind of shape.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Trent really isn't much better than Darius at this point, and is a similar style of player (little more focused on the paint). Getting him wouldn't make our bench any better, just a little deeper. But either he or Darius would be out of the pseudo rotation, so on any given night we would be no better off than we have been thus far.Circa_1985_Fan said:
Darius this year:
16.6min 5.9pts (.535, --, .839) 3.3rebs 0.6ast 0.4stl 0.2blk 0.6TO
Trent last year:
15.1min 5.6pts (.473, .000, .758) 3.2rebs 0.7ast 0.2stl 0.3blk 0.8TO
pretty much the same player, except Trent has a tan
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Wow!! So much for a bench problem thread..... Finally, 34 Pedja-Bibby-Bobby comments later we're back to the problem, the bench.
Consensus is we need a big guy to be a 4-5 who can score and defend and we need a SF who can score from the outside. Daniels-Martin-Evans even Barnes are all 6'7" so not much height or size and all seem to be more a SG than SF.
Tag is not much of a scorer but they got him for defending and rebounding. Phoenix and Seattle, both at top of their divisions don't have true centers and both score like crazy, much like the kings of 2-3 years ago and both have great benches.
We don't have bench size, rebounding or scoring...... but we don't have much to trade to get it.... arrrrggghhhhhhh...
Consensus is we need a big guy to be a 4-5 who can score and defend and we need a SF who can score from the outside. Daniels-Martin-Evans even Barnes are all 6'7" so not much height or size and all seem to be more a SG than SF.
Tag is not much of a scorer but they got him for defending and rebounding. Phoenix and Seattle, both at top of their divisions don't have true centers and both score like crazy, much like the kings of 2-3 years ago and both have great benches.
We don't have bench size, rebounding or scoring...... but we don't have much to trade to get it.... arrrrggghhhhhhh...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I don't think Barnes is really undersized for a SF at all -- he's 6'7", and strongly built. Plays much more physical than our starter at the position, and grabs more than twice as many rebounds. If Peja's acceptable as a SF, Matt certainly is.
My concern with him is just his sloppiness and overall talent level -- actually not even talent. He's actually got a very good set of skills. But he jsut doesn't seem to be able to consistently put it all together. Be very comfortable with him as an 11th/12th man 3rd stringer who could fill in at SF or OG. Not as comfortable with him as Peja's primary backup.
My concern with him is just his sloppiness and overall talent level -- actually not even talent. He's actually got a very good set of skills. But he jsut doesn't seem to be able to consistently put it all together. Be very comfortable with him as an 11th/12th man 3rd stringer who could fill in at SF or OG. Not as comfortable with him as Peja's primary backup.
CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
First year in a long time Kings have not had a 13th or 14th guy on the IL. Budget move by Maloofs for sure but....... gads we need something. Three lead footed big guys opens up our middle too much. There has to be some energetic bigger guys out there somewhere.
Every team in the league seems to rebound better than the Kings or has a bunch of scoring and some defense off the bench. At this rate our starters will be worn out by the All Star break.
Sure Evans, Marting and Daniels are 6-7 or less but can the be agressive, score and rebound? Apparently not in practices..... or could it be Adelmann is under some pressure to get wins during a rather soft part of the schedule thereby not using the rest of the bench. We don't seem to have blowouts this year as in years past further eliminating bench time.
Bricklayer mentions consistently for Barnes. That applies to the starters as well. Wish I had a solution......
Every team in the league seems to rebound better than the Kings or has a bunch of scoring and some defense off the bench. At this rate our starters will be worn out by the All Star break.
Sure Evans, Marting and Daniels are 6-7 or less but can the be agressive, score and rebound? Apparently not in practices..... or could it be Adelmann is under some pressure to get wins during a rather soft part of the schedule thereby not using the rest of the bench. We don't seem to have blowouts this year as in years past further eliminating bench time.
Bricklayer mentions consistently for Barnes. That applies to the starters as well. Wish I had a solution......
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