next years line-up

AleksandarN · Mar 24, 2005

VF21 said:

I understand where you are coming from.

VF21 said:

What do you mean he demanded a trade. He asked to be traded but he did not demand to be traded.

VF21 said:

How is it his fault that the others got traded. Also when has he repeatedly announced that he didn't want to be here. I seen a numerous quotes that he is happy being a king. Hey I am as upset as you are with his pathetic play this year.

VF21 said:

I hope that aswell. I want the Kings to win period and I hope that we do so. This team is too talented not to win.

Peja4threee · Mar 24, 2005

Yes I like the line up for next year. Bibby/BJAX/Mobley/Evans we are set at the guards. Miller/Skinner combo is excellent. Thomas/Daruis is solid, the only change I would make is Peja for................Artest maybe? Not sure but I would like to see a SF that can jump for rebounds, dive on the floor for loose balls and can also score. Artest fits the player, so does Shawn Marion. Who knows maybe Peja will pick up his game some and be the Peja he is capable of.

AleksandarN · Mar 24, 2005

Peja4threee said:

Artest is no rebounder. I still say that we need to get better defensively on the perimeter. Our defence sucks.

Peja4threee · Mar 24, 2005

yes he is??? He is a better rebounder then Peja and a better all around player. After his first 7 games this year before he was tossed for the year, he was averaging 24.6 points, 6.4 rebounds, 3.1 assists. Plus he is only 25.

KingCookie · Mar 24, 2005

PejaHoops16 said:

First, Mobley's a free agent after this season.

Second, nobody would be willing to take on Bobby until he can prove he's not as injury-prone as he seems.

Third, WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT PAUL PIERCE? Can you say....overrated ballhog? I knew you could.

AleksandarN · Mar 24, 2005

Peja4threee said:

That is still not enough I would like to have some rebound at least 8 rebounds a game. Maybe someone like Lewis for instance.

VF21 · Mar 24, 2005

AleksandarN - I just noticed you had responded to my comments to mcSluggo.

I will attempt to clarify a couple of points, but I'm not going to try and justify my feelings because they are MY feelings. You may not agree with them, which is fine, but you cannot possibly expect me to change them because you disagree.

First, about the use of the word "demand" vs. "request." If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc... The use of one word over another to describe what Peja did isn't the point. The point is that he went public and SAID (is that better) that he didn't want to be a King. He said he didn't care where he went, he just didn't want to play for Sacramento any longer. Po-tay-toe or Po-tot-oh, it was still a very public slap in the face in my humble opinion.

Second, I NEVER said the trades were Peja's fault. Ever. If you want to read that into my comments, then you've misunderstood the point I was attempting to make.

Third, you continue to argue semantics. I said:

And you replied:

AleksandarN said:

The "public and repeated" reference is to his statements to Ailene Voisin, his statements to B92, his statements to someone (sorry but I forget whom) to ESPN, etc. As far as him saying he's happy to be a King, he didn't do that until Webber was gone. He has NEVER publicly retracted his demand/request for a trade, which - up until the Webber deal - was something a number of Peja fans continually pointed to as proof Peja would be dealt.

I was being very honest about my feelings on Peja, his POOR choice of actions this past summer, etc. If you don't agree, that's totally fine, but I am not going to change how I feel. He has something to prove and I strongly suspect I'm not the only long-time Kings fan to feel this way.

Do I want him to turn it around and be the best he can be? Hell, yes. He wears the uniform of the Sacramento Kings!

AleksandarN · Mar 24, 2005

VF21 said:

AleksandarN - I just noticed you had responded to my comments to mcSluggo.

I will attempt to clarify a couple of points, but I'm not going to try and justify my feelings because they are MY feelings. You may not agree with them, which is fine, but you cannot possibly expect me to change them because you disagree.

First, about the use of the word "demand" vs. "request." If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc... The use of one word over another to describe what Peja did isn't the point. The point is that he went public and SAID (is that better) that he didn't want to be a King. He said he didn't care where he went, he just didn't want to play for Sacramento any longer. Po-tay-toe or Po-tot-oh, it was still a very public slap in the face in my humble opinion.

Second, I NEVER said the trades were Peja's fault. Ever. If you want to read that into my comments, then you've misunderstood the point I was attempting to make.

Third, you continue to argue semantics. I said:

And you replied:

The "public and repeated" reference is to his statements to Ailene Voisin, his statements to B92, his statements to someone (sorry but I forget whom) to ESPN, etc. As far as him saying he's happy to be a King, he didn't do that until Webber was gone. He has NEVER publicly retracted his demand/request for a trade, which - up until the Webber deal - was something a number of Peja fans continually pointed to as proof Peja would be dealt.

I was being very honest about my feelings on Peja, his POOR choice of actions this past summer, etc. If you don't agree, that's totally fine, but I am not going to change how I feel. He has something to prove and I strongly suspect I'm not the only long-time Kings fan to feel this way.

Do I want him to turn it around and be the best he can be? Hell, yes. He wears the uniform of the Sacramento Kings!

Ok I just wanted to clearify what was being said. I now understand more of where you are coming from. I am not trying to change your feelings about Pedja that is up to Pedja himself to do that. I just wanted a better understanding where you are coming in which I got a reply. Thank you

mcsluggo · Mar 24, 2005

VF21 said:

Well, I don't know if anyone remembers particularly, but I was definately much more aligned with the Webber Jockers in the great asinine "webb v Peja" debates of yore. Also, DC had been my favorite King from soon after he came to town. But none of this changes the fact that the swing in sentiment against Peja has been far out of line of anything that has actually transpired. Yes he asked for a trade. Unfortunately he apparently read the local newspapers and bought into the malarky that his game was being stifled by the system that clearly (especially in retrospect) was MAKING him. Ah, the foibles of listing to Ailine Voison

However, I also clearly remember Webber and Jackson asking for trades, and Vlade voluntarily leaving for apparently not that much more mony than the kings were offering. I don't think you took those slights any where near as dearly as you did Pejas.

Peja also isn't producing as well as he did before. Unfortntly you can view this as one of those "indicator species" type of phenomena. When you find a bunch of frogs in a lake that have sprouted extra eyes and legs, yes they have problems. But the REAL problem is in the environment they live in. They are more suseptible to problems in their environment, so they are the first to suffer when it is sick. They are "indicator" species, indicating that their lake on the whole is having problems.

As a system guy, Peja lives and dies by how well the system around him is functioning. When the Kings were an awesome offensive system with crisp passes and picks and cuts, peja the frog flourished. His unsightly extra limbs and warts of late are, at least partially, and indication of the fact that the kings offensive system as we had come to know and love it, is currently DOA, or at the very least quite sick. After an offseason of tutelage by yoda and and co. perhaps this (or whatever new) crew will be able to function as one mind, and the system will be reborn. But right now the players simply don't know each other or the system well enough for it to flourish. Some of those guys are used to having to scrap and grab what they can outside of a set sysystem, so they are doing fine. Peja is not one of them. He is a system guy.

Frankly, if you look at next season I am MUCH more worried about players like Cat than Peja. IF the system is fixed at that point, then peja will do fine, but will a player like Cat EVER be good at operating within the confines of a system? If not, then he will become a detriment to the team (rather than just an indication of what is wrong). If the system is shot, never to return, then the Kings as we know them are shot. It will be time to fire adleman and start over. If not, then Peja will be a valuable asset to the team.

VF21 · Mar 24, 2005

mcsluggo said:

I think I understand better where you're coming from, but I would like to clarify one thing: Webber never asked for a trade once he actually got here. Never. He wasn't happy about coming here but, once he actually got here and started playing, he NEVER asked to be traded.

I didn't mind Bobby making the comment that he made because he could be starting on another team and that was just a fact of life. He was a valuable sixth man here but could have started on a number of other teams. You don't blame a player for wanting to get a starting slot.

As far as Vlade leaving, I honestly thought it for the best - both for him AND for the Kings. He had slowed so obviously by the end of the year that it was pretty clear to me, a fan of his since his first days with the NBA, that his game was rapidly deteriorating. I didn't want to see him play one year too long and become a laughing stock. I respected what he had done for this team too much for that.

You've made a lot of good excuses for Peja and all might well be legitimate. Bottom line is that, as I said to AleksandarN, I want to see him succeed and perform well because he wears the uniform of the Sacramento Kings and that, when everything else has been said and done, is what is really the most important.

King4Life · Mar 24, 2005

I would go for something like this if it's possible:

Trade Mobley for Artest

Trade Peja for Maggette

C-Brad Miller/Skinner

PF-Kenny Thomas/Songaila/Corliss

SF-Ron Artest

SG-Corey Maggette

PG-Mike Bibby

Bibby is great in all, but he is weak on defense. Maggette will bring defense to the backcourt. He also brings athleticism and the ability to drive past defenders and take the ball to the hoop. He gets to the free throw line often. Artest can be psycho, but when he has his head together like he did earlier this season, he is great. He will defend, rebound, score, and bring toughness to the team.

The above line-up is balanced. Bibby and Miller know the system and have the passing ability. Maggette and Artest bring defense, athleticism, and scoring.

dbl07 · Mar 24, 2005

Bricklayer said:

Its a good enough lineup to make the playoffs with as a low seed. If that's all you want to do, the depth alone let's you pull a Memphis. But its not good enough to seriously scare the great teams, and its woefully weak in size, interior play, defensive stoppers, and even *gasp* in exceptional passers. Nobody demands a double team. Nobody can be counted on to lock people down every night.

You don't win big in the NBA on the backs of mid-level players, and you don't really need a 10-deep team. This offseason witll be the time to cash in some of those mid-level shrug type players and go after another stud or two.

The pistons did it

Bricklayer · Mar 24, 2005

dbl07 said:

Yes, and they are the first such team in 25 or more years and had more than a little luck with banged up opponents along the way. Think I'll side with the 96% of the time rather than the freakish occurrence. Think I would also pay attention to the fact that the Pistons did it with defense, and with a DEFENSIVE superstar in the middle.

Circa_1985_Fan · Mar 24, 2005

VF21 said:

Did you think that Detroit, with the line-up they had, would win it all last year?? I thought they were a very good line up, but not capable of winning it all...and look what happened.

Circa_1985_Fan · Mar 24, 2005

dbl07 said:

Damn, didnt read the last post in this thread...nice to know someone else noticed the Detroit thing, too.

VF21 · Mar 24, 2005

Circa_1985_Fan said:

And the point is?

I still don't think the current line-up the Kings have is constructed to win it all, especially if Miami wins in the East. I would love to be proven wrong but at this point my comment pretty much stands.

Rowdyone · Mar 24, 2005

Been looking at the Wizards team and wondering about the feasability of Larry Hughes (SG) and MJ's pick, Kwame Brown (PF) who has one more year on his current deal. Hughes is a FA this summer so would probably hesitate to do a sign and trade with us but the two of them for say, Mobley, Tag and Songaila would give them more than they'll probably wind up getting for the two of them and we could use the two of them:
PF - Brown, Thomas
C -Miller, Skinner
SF - Peja, Corliss
SG - Hughes, Evans/Martin
PG - Bibby, Bobby, Eddie

And depending on Peja's "comeback" we could go to Atlanta and trade him for Al Harrington. Good shooters, improved defense, rebounding and good bench but still lacking the "stud" scorer unless Hughes continues to blossom into that category.

BobbyJ_for3! · Mar 24, 2005

Rowdyone said:

i really like this Wiz trade actually...i am sad to see songaila go, and obviously cuttino is a great player, but i think hughes is even better and brown has alot of potential..and the kings are good at advancing potential, imho... specifics tho are that id prolly start thomas unless brown makes VAST improvements...but ya, sounds really good

VF21 · Mar 25, 2005

Rowdyone said:

Been looking at the Wizards team and wondering about the feasability of Larry Hughes (SG) and MJ's pick, Kwame Brown (PF) who has one more year on his current deal. Hughes is a FA this summer so would probably hesitate to do a sign and trade with us but the two of them for say, Mobley, Tag and Songaila would give them more than they'll probably wind up getting for the two of them and we could use the two of them:
PF - Brown, Thomas
C -Miller, Skinner
SF - Peja, Corliss
SG - Hughes, Evans/Martin
PG - Bibby, Bobby, Eddie

And depending on Peja's "comeback" we could go to Atlanta and trade him for Al Harrington. Good shooters, improved defense, rebounding and good bench but still lacking the "stud" scorer unless Hughes continues to blossom into that category.

I don't like the idea of Kwame Brown at all, especially if we're getting rid of Darius - who seems to be really growing into his role - to get him.

GoGoGadget · Mar 25, 2005

After all that has happened this season, the idea of trying to accurately predict what is going to happen in the off-season seems really silly to me.

VF21 · Mar 25, 2005

G3 - Just wait. The dreaded off-season (TDOS) is rife with trade talks, trade proposals, trade scenarios, alternative trade discussions... It's enough to make a person want to consider hibernating, except the weather's too nice.

SacTownKid · Mar 25, 2005

VF21 said:

I would hate to see Darius go as well but Kwame is an upgrade. A stud? Maybe. I don't think Darius is a stud though, so you trade a maybe for a probably not.

ParniValjak · Mar 25, 2005

Brown is soft. We need a badass down low to frighten the living daylights out of his opponent

loopymitch · Mar 25, 2005

Why does everyone seem to want Artest? yes he's a good player but he brings too many problems to a team. Do we want to deal with all that anger and emotional stuff? IMO I don't think it's worth it. I do think Peja needs to go though. He's been very inconsistent and why keep someone who doesn't want to be here? When he's on he's great but how many games has he done that? Not enough !!

hoops4kings · Mar 25, 2005

I'm getting more and more impressed with Kenny Thomas. The guy can shoot and I also see the ability to pass the rock. 6'7? As long as he's getting the job done I don't care. Barkley was 6'5, and Rodman 6'9 with no O skills. Heart is bigger than size.

I also like Skinner, although if he can get his FT% up and hit a midrange jumper he'd be fantastic.

hoops4kings · Mar 25, 2005

BTW, If this team is healthy, I think we may actually do damage in the playoffs. Not get to the Finals per se, but go down fighting.

EmKingsFan4 · Mar 25, 2005

I'm just not willing to get myself attached to this current team and look at them and say "yeah this is who will be playing next season" anything can happen in the offseason and before trade deadlines so... who knows? This time next year anyone could be on the court....

bbb · Mar 25, 2005

i actually like the wizards trade, although I don't know if they would do that trade, unless they were certain that one or both of the players would leave via free agency. As far as the peja/harrington deal, we better get someone better than harrington for peja. harrington is a good #3 option while peja is a great #2 player, and a decent #1 when he wants to be

Rowdyone said:

Raci · Mar 25, 2005

loopymitch said:

Why does everyone seem to want Artest? yes he's a good player but he brings too many problems to a team. Do we want to deal with all that anger and emotional stuff? IMO I don't think it's worth it. I do think Peja needs to go though. He's been very inconsistent and why keep someone who doesn't want to be here? When he's on he's great but how many games has he done that? Not enough !!

who doesn't want to be here?

Raci · Mar 25, 2005

I will do with the same team next years if it possible,we have everything we need.Guys just need one or two season together.

next years line-up

Starter

G-League

Starter

G-League

Bench

Starter

Super Moderator Emeritus

Starter

Starter

Super Moderator Emeritus

G-League

Prospect

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

All-Star

All-Star

Super Moderator Emeritus

Bench

Bench

Super Moderator Emeritus

All-Star

Super Moderator Emeritus

Hall of Famer

All-Star

All-Star

Bench

Bench

Starter

G-League

G-League

G-League