Need for a defensive wing - realistic targets?

biltalent

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After the recent breakdown against LA some members were discussing that we could use a defensive wing to shut down opposing guards and forwards on a nightly basis

Hard to trust this team. Vlade finding a way to get a defensive wing in here before the deadline would help that.

I think it might be time to fiddle around with trade possibilities with our current guards. I really would not mind seeing Collison or McLemore go to be replaced by a saavy veteran gaurd (Nelson type player). KMart might even be a nice option. We also could really use a shutdown wing player because we simply do not have one. Nonetheless very happy to pull out the win in what would have been a truly devastating loss.

So who would you like to add to our team? And how are we going to get those players? What are some realistic trades that we could do to improve our perimeter defense?

Edit: George Karl comments after the game vs LA:
Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 3m3 minutes ago
Karl: "I don’t need anymore points, I don’t need anything more than than somebody to cover the damn basketball."
 
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Wizards a potential trade partner with Temple and Dudley on the roster. PJ Tucker in Phoenix could be helpful and I imagine the Suns will be in a selling mood soon enough. The Bucks were rumored to have interest in Caron, but don't have the right player in return. I like Fournier in Orlando and he knows Karl's system a bit, but I'm not sure he helps you defensively. I've liked Tony Snell as well, and he can play some defense. Just a bit inconsistent. Wonder if the Grizz would move Tony Allen for youth or if the Hawks would move Sefolosha for Ben.
 
Wizards a potential trade partner with Temple and Dudley on the roster. PJ Tucker in Phoenix could be helpful and I imagine the Suns will be in a selling mood soon enough. The Bucks were rumored to have interest in Caron, but don't have the right player in return. I like Fournier in Orlando and he knows Karl's system a bit, but I'm not sure he helps you defensively. I've liked Tony Snell as well, and he can play some defense. Just a bit inconsistent. Wonder if the Grizz would move Tony Allen for youth or if the Hawks would move Sefolosha for Ben.
I'd love to get Tucker but I don't see a deal that we and Phoenix would do since he is a free agent at the end of the season.
I think Snell should be our target No. 1. He is 6-7, has a huge wingspan and has the mindset to play defense every minute he is on the floor. He has 1 1/2 years on his contract and then becomes a RFA. He can shoot the three ball very well. On the other side his ball handling is not close to being average and he is passive offensively at times. Same as Mclemore.
Nevertheless, I think you do a trade centered around Snell for Mclemore or Collison if the Bulls are interested. Maybe we can get our pick back or another defender like Hinrich.

Another player I would take a look at is Solomon Hill.

If we do somehow end up with a top 15 draftpick I would consider drafting Luwawu from france.

Edit: just saw Tucker has 2 years on his contract. My bad. Maybe for Mclemore and Butler? But that would leave us without a SG.
 
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Solomon Hill is a beast defender and great slasher get him, he's still young with potential and the best thing is he's got great size 6'7 and built like a tank with solid quickness.
 
Lance Stephenson

Salaries won't work, but he'd be a good option to look at. Buy low, sell high. Just like we did with Rondo.
 
Courtney Lee is another name, I don't think the Grizz can wait by and not make a move if things stay the same for them.
 
Most of the names mentioned so far are not going to be moved...Snell, Allen, ...these guys are on playoff teams getting minutes. Ben by himself doesn't bring much back.
 
Most of the names mentioned so far are not going to be moved...Snell, Allen, ...these guys are on playoff teams getting minutes. Ben by himself doesn't bring much back.

There are actually rumors out there that we talked with the Bulls about a Snell for Mclemore trade.

Chicago Bulls Press– ‏@NBABullsPress
Bulls talked to SAC about B. McLemore. Snell was brought up, talked draft picks as well. No interest.

I don't know if the source is credible or not. But its not like he plays a major role for the Bulls. He averages around 22 min per game. He is about the 10th guy in their normal rotation.
I asked Bulls fans about it and they would do a Collison for Snell and Hinrich trade "in a heartbeat". They also like the idea of a Mclemore Snell swap.

But to an extend you're right because they won 6 games straight and probably are careful now with all changes. But we have more than 5 weeks until the trade deadline and a lot can change in this time.
 
I still think Collison, Ben, and Rudy are most likely to get traded, in that order. Collison has not played well for us this year (regardless of what the stats say). He has been selfish, plays inconsistent defense (and I absolutely hate his switches on D, no one does it more than him). Ben is a bust. It is what it is. He does not have the mental capacity to be a good SG in this league. Rudy does not seem to be his usual self and has been a disappointment this season. He's a great weapon, but he just can't take over when Cuz sits. He's not a #2 option, he's an awesome #3 option.
 
PG - Rondo/Average Backup PG/Curry
SG - 3 and D SG/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF - Defensive, Shooting PF/Cauley-Sein/Acy/Dukan
C - Cousins/Koufos/Moreland

I think that would be the most ideal, realistic change we could make with our current roster, but I think it has to be made during the offseason. This obviously leaves Collison & McLemore as the valuable pieces we can move. Of course you hope McLemore can become the 3 and D player we need then you're really just looking for a Collison for defensive, shooting PF.

Putting actual (somewhat realistic) players in those slots, I would probably go with this team:

PG - Rondo/Norris Cole/Curry
SG - Kent Bazemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF - Taj Gibson/Cauley-Sein/Acy/Moreland
C - Cousins/Koufos
 
I like Harris, but I don't think we'll be trading with Denver due to the recent past.

Schroeder is interesting, but I don't know if you want to switch backup PGs now that the team is finally getting comfortable in the system. Better to get a wing player.

You need a wing who is strong minded on the defensive end. Guys like Collison and McLemore were playing good defense under Malone. They are the players who will be solid on defense with guidance, but Karl isn't that sort of coach. You need someone who is defensive focused on their own.
 
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Archie Goodwin is another one that comes to mind, plays hard...doesn't get that much playing time in Phoenix however
 
How about Trevor Ariza? He is having a down year, but fits the need of a 3&D player well.
Marc Stein hinted that he might be available.
 
Gerald Henderson is not getting much playing time in Portland but he's still a crazy athlete and good defender with a decent mid range game. Two years ago he was terrific and still has gas left Portland is not a good situation for him and he could help us a ton.
 
Henderson is someone I have under "affordable FA pursuits in the next off-season". Portland would be looking for bigs in a trade. Teams don't normally trade within division though.
 
How about Trevor Ariza? He is having a down year, but fits the need of a 3&D player well.
Marc Stein hinted that he might be available.

Not sure if he would get much of a chance in the rotation with Rudy and Casspi taking the bulk of the minutes. That could change if Casspi continues playing well at PF though.
And I haven't been watching much rockets basketball, but isn't Ariza safe from the chopping block? Seem's like they have guys that are definitely a problem and Ariza isn't one of them.
 
How about Trevor Ariza? He is having a down year, but fits the need of a 3&D player well.
Marc Stein hinted that he might be available.

Yeah he would fit really well, but I don't think we have the assets to get him if we want to keep our core together. I' rather try to get K.J. McDaniels from them.

I tried some trades on the trademachine and came up with the following:

Sac gets: McDaniels, Hinrich (+maybe our pick back)
Bulls gets: Collison, T. Jones
Rockets gets: Mirotic


We get our defensive wing, a solid back up PG and maybe our pick back.
Bulls get their much needed high level back up PG and a RFA in Jones as an insurance if Gasol leaves and/or they want to trade Gibson.
Rockets finally get a real stretch 4 to play alongside Howard or Capela
 
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Yeah he would fit really well, but I don't think we have the assets to get him if we want to keep our core together. I' rather try to get K.J. McDaniels from them.

I tried some trades on the trademachine and came up with the following:

Sac gets: McDaniels, Hinrich (+maybe our pick back)
Bulls gets: Collison, T. Jones
Rockets gets: Mirotic


We get our defensive wing, a solid back up PG and maybe our pick back.
Bulls get their much needed high level back up PG and a RFA in Jones as an insurance if Gasol leaves and/or they want to trade Gibson.
Rockets finally get a real stretch 4 to play alongside Howard or Capela

Not too often do you see a fan give his team the short end of the stick in a trade, but that's exactly what is happening here.

A fringe starter/great backup PG for a young wing who has played 81 minutes total the past 2 seasons and a 35 year old guard who's contract expires at the end of the year. Sure, McDaniels could amount to something in the future, but we're in the business to win now. If we're moving Collison, it better be for a player who can contribute now.
 
Yeah he would fit really well, but I don't think we have the assets to get him if we want to keep our core together. I' rather try to get K.J. McDaniels from them.

I tried some trades on the trademachine and came up with the following:

Sac gets: McDaniels, Hinrich (+maybe our pick back)
Bulls gets: Collison, T. Jones
Rockets gets: Mirotic


We get our defensive wing, a solid back up PG and maybe our pick back.
Bulls get their much needed high level back up PG and a RFA in Jones as an insurance if Gasol leaves and/or they want to trade Gibson.
Rockets finally get a real stretch 4 to play alongside Howard or Capela

If I am trading Collison to the Bulls I want Tony Snell or Taj Gibson.
 
If I am trading Collison to the Bulls I want Tony Snell or Taj Gibson.

Me too, believe me! I want Snell bad. Really Bad. I made a list of defenders who could play meaningful minutes as a SG and SF on our team, who have at least a 8'6 standing reach and who we can get at the deadline by only giving up Collison or Mclemore. Turns out there are probably one and 2 a half guys that meet the criteria.
The first one is Tony Snell. The other ones are McDaniels and Solomon Hill. Since Ive posted a lot trades about getting Snell, I made this trade under the assumption that the Bulls wouldnt trade him. Hence I proposed the trade for McDaniels.
Who would you trade for if we can't get Snell?

Not too often do you see a fan give his team the short end of the stick in a trade, but that's exactly what is happening here.

A fringe starter/great backup PG for a young wing who has played 81 minutes total the past 2 seasons and a 35 year old guard who's contract expires at the end of the year. Sure, McDaniels could amount to something in the future, but we're in the business to win now. If we're moving Collison, it better be for a player who can contribute now.

I agree that we give up a lot for half a year of Hinrich and McDaniels. Because of that I proposed that we may get our pick back in this scenario. And yes, I do like to do realistic trades and make sure that the other teams involved want to do that deal too.
But I disagree with your assessment of the players involved. First, McDaniels actually played 1400 minutes the last 2 seasons. He would be our best wing defender and if Karl stays true to his words, he would play I think about 15 min per game for us. Second, I believe that if you trade for Hinrich now, our chances of resigning him in the offseason will go up a lot (It worked with Rudy and I expect it to work with Rondo. Casspi and Acy returned too) And its not like Hinrich is done. He is still a very good defender, hits his threes and cam give you very solid 15 min behind Rondo.
Third, I admit I'm really down on Collison. Last season, as a starter, he was really great for us but this year? Oh man. I know his stats per 36 minutes this year are almost identical to last years, but it feels like he does not belong out there anymore. But maybe I'm biased, I don't know.
Nevertheless, I think this trade really improves our defense and our balance short-term. With Karls schemes, our biggest need right now are perimter defenders. Karl said it himself, we don't need anymore offense, we need to contain the ball. And with the trade we get two players that specialize in this. McDaniels is also a nice piece going forward as he is only 22 years old.
So is this worth giving up Collison? I came to the conclusion that it is, but I can see why one may think otherwise.
 
I really like the idea of a trade revolving Snell and Gibson for Koufas and McLemore/ Collison. Snell fill the need of 3 and D SG and Gibson is a PF I have thought highly of for a long time. He is not exactly a stretch for but he plays hard and can hit an outside jumper better than the rest of our bigs. I doubt the Hawks would want to move Bazemore. I really don't see Ariza moving either. I also don't want to move Gay unless we get something really worthwhile in return. Collison, Koufas, and McLemore are the most expendable for me.
 
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