more on beno

[Kingster]

What does that mean? Trade Beno Udrih for Kurt Hinrich? First it can't possibly happen since the Bulls back-up PG makes $10 million a season - significantly more than Udrih. Hinrich is only in second year of his huge 5 yr deal. He just had pin removed from that injured thumb with no date certain for return - earliest mid February it seems. Beno, a year younger is better overall than Hinrich IMO or at worst roughly same talent level. The biggest complaint about Hinrich in Chicago is they found out he was not a true PG once they locked him under long term contract, looked to shoot way more than they liked and lately depressed them more with his drastically declining FG% - all opposite of what he did as a Kansas Jayhawk star.

All those knocks against Hinrich are great as far as I am concerned. I hope those Chicago folks think he's pitifully bad (kinda like we think about Beno). That just means we can get him for less in a trade. I'll take him anyday over Beno. The one thing he can do is play D, which is one more thing than Beno can do.

 

[CruzDude]

With the Kings in the dumps, Beno is the latest sacrificial lamb as to what is wrong (perceived or not) with the Kings.

PurpleHaze points out Beno was without Kevin most of the year PLUS a change in coaches and coaching philosophy. At the time last year he was the best available and the 5-yr MLE was what it took to get him. Offensively he can deliver. His assists are down but IMO due to the Thumper(s) who would rather dribble than catch & shoot. Also there seems to be a lack of movement without the ball further cutting down assists.

He does lack for defensive ability against a majority of other PG's and holds his own for the rest. He can work on that. But the really bad defensive rotations of the forwards and "bigs" also tend to make Beno look worse than he may be. It's all a learning process but with the Kings doing so bad, he gets highlighted more than the others.

There is not and likely will not be any "quick" fixes before the trade deadline so we all have to suck it up for awhile. I like Beno's game much of the time but he does tend to get into a "funk" that further lowers his abilities. Coupled with Thumpers funks now is a double performance whammy.

I'm not a Beno homey by any means but a realist. The hard nose Jerry Sloan approach of Coach Natt takes a bit of getting used to. Beno can correct much of his displayed deficiencies whereas Brad is slow and moves like he's running in mud and is never anything more than an invitation to drive the basket. Hawes at least is quick and has the attitude to deter the layup drills so many teams exercise on the Kings. Now if Hawes can only learn how to use his abilities instead of getting so many fouls.................., wow!

 

[Gary]

Meh... If someone offers a bag of Doritos for him TAKE IT!

 

[kingsnation]

He was playing for a contract last year. Unless he can somehow get back that desire and drive he showed last season - I don't want him.

..Maybe for a backup pg.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I was wondering if his (Beno) play and the others guys in the roster has to do with the team tanking and trying for a top 3-5 loterry pick in this years draft in hopes of a Ricky Rubio or any other franchise PG... I can see Salmons and B52 performing well since the Kings are trying to trade them, but if everyone else performs to their maximum capacity we would be winning more games (maybe at a playoff levl) and I dont think thats the direction the owners want us to go at the moment...

actually I'm hoping thats the "problem" and I want to believe they'll play a lot better next year...

I don't think Beno or others are intentionally tankings; however, with us in a lost season, Beno certainly might not be approaching each game as seriously. In other words, if we were competing it is possible he would be playing better, but he is not intentionally playing bad.

 

[bloom]

I hate that we signed him for more than 3 years. Not because I thought he was playing for a contract but because I think a 3 year deal is good for most players in the NBA...I just hope Beno somehow gains his handle this season. I don't know what happened but he's a completely different player from last year.

Source: http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1525266.html

Still, nothing is new about the results. The Kings still are losing, and Udrih admits his confidence is at an all-time low.

"Big-time," he said when asked if his confidence was down. "I can't knock down shots that usually I knock down. Confidence is 50 percent for me.

"If (Natt) doesn't trust in me as a point guard to be out there at the end of the game, I can't really do nothing about it. I can't make him believe in me and make him think that I've got to be out there as a point guard and lead my team and set them up in a good situation. It is what it is. It's a tough situation."

But Udrih disputes the notion that he is not driven this season.

With Natt having questioned his motivation and so many fans convinced he played so much better last season because of the allure of long-term financial security, Udrih disagrees.

"I definitely didn't lose motivation," he said. "I just don't know what I'm expected to do. … I don't feel pressure (from the contract). I like pressure. I know I deserve what I got. I've been working my whole life. I just have to have open hands to do what I do, play the way I play. I cannot be a different player than I am."

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Ridnour is a pure playmaker who has shown the capacity to average 7 assists per game, and makes smart decisions on the court (attested by his small tpg). Uh...Beno?

After the Bucks game:

Ridnour 17 pts 10 asts 3 stls 0 TOs
Beno 14 pts 2 asts 0 stls 5 TOs

I stand by my statement. Beno is not even really a point guard, and just makes a lot of headscratching plays. Ridnour plays with poise, and is just such a smart player; if he had any athleticism, he would be further noticed.

 

[BMiller52]

You can't look at a NY player to assess his value elsewhere. I am pretty certain Beno could average similar in a Seven Seconds or Less offence.

Sorry but Duhon can atleast shoot and play defense, Beno doesn't do either.

 

[kingsnation]

After the Bucks game:

Ridnour 17 pts 10 asts 3 stls 0 TOs
Beno 14 pts 2 asts 0 stls 5 TOs

I stand by my statement. Beno is not even really a point guard, and just makes a lot of headscratching plays. Ridnour plays with poise, and is just such a smart player; if he had any athleticism, he would be further noticed.

Don't compare any PG that plays us to Beno. It is not a fair comparison.

Ridnour got those stats against a team that is a mess offensively and gives up 106 ppg (before tonight).

If Beno were a Buck - he would've had those same numbers tonight. Again, we are the Kings - we make ANYBODY look good on any given night.

 

[BMiller52]

Don't compare any PG that plays us to Beno. It is not a fair comparison.

Ridnour got those stats against a team that is a mess offensively and gives up 106 ppg (before tonight).

If Beno were a Buck - he would've had those same numbers tonight. Again, we are the Kings - we make ANYBODY look good on any given night.

Sorry but Beno IS the reason that everybody owns him, not everyone else on the floor.

 

[kingsnation]

And also when you have a player like Redd going off for 50, of course he's going to get 10 assists.

 

[kingsnation]

Sorry but Beno IS the reason that everybody owns him, not everyone else on the floor.

You are totally disreguarding the other 8 players on the floor. Do you think that Beno is the only reason we give up 106 per game?

 

[kingsnation]

We get owned by EVERYBODY at EVERY POSITION. It is not an individual flaw, with our team - it is a collective flaw.

 

[BMiller52]

You are totally disreguarding the other 8 players on the floor. Do you think that Beno is the only reason we give up 106 per game?

No he's the reason his man gets 20 points per night. Sorry but Beno won't guard anybody, he is trash, and everybody gets by him. The Celtics D STARTS with Rondo, because if you stay in front of your man than your teammates don't have to help and wind up out of position. Beno doesn't stay in front of anybody. He's not the only reason but he's a big problem.

 

[kingsnation]

No he's the reason his man gets 20 points per night. Sorry but Beno won't guard anybody, he is trash, and everybody gets by him. The Celtics D STARTS with Rondo, because if you stay in front of your man than your teammates don't have to help and wind up out of position. Beno doesn't stay in front of anybody. He's not the only reason but he's a big problem.

So you are going to compare a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Doc Rivers and a title to a team that is 10-31 with Kenny Natt and our biggest star is Kevin Martin???



If Rondo had Salmons, Martin, Miller, Moore, and 3 rooks playing behind him AND Natt as a coach- he might look like Beno more often than not as well.

 

[barndoggie]

Beno is worthless he got his money then his game disapeared he turns the ball over way to much he drives into three guys under the basket trying for layups and get rejected and he can't stay in front of anybody. Im not blaming him for the whole teams problems but he is a big part of whats wrong. I can't figure out why natt isn't putting him at the end of the bench might as well let brown give it a try or throw cisco in there he seems to be able to run the team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Beno is worthless he got his money then his game disapeared he turns the ball over way to much he drives into three guys under the basket trying for layups and get rejected and he can't stay in front of anybody. Im not blaming him for the whole teams problems but he is a big part of whats wrong. I can't figure out why natt isn't putting him at the end of the bench might as well let brown give it a try or throw cisco in there he seems to be able to run the team.

Brown has shown little ability to run a team and extreme inconsistency, and Cisco would stand no chance against starting PGs and defenses that woudl swarm him if teams could gameplan around him bringng it up. Beno is the guy.

And I've mentioned this before -- the absolute WORST thing we could do with Beno, regardless of whether we are planning on keeping him or planning on moving him, is to bench him. You do that and you have just created another immoveable Kenny Thomas contract. Your only hope is to play him, and have him either earn the money, or put up good enough stats that another team will take him. You bench him, and you have completely screwed yourself. If we've got some hotshot lottery pick waiting behind him, sure. We don't. We've got an inconsistent shoot first guy we signed out of summer league, a 35 year old with one leg in retirement, and a swingman with shaky ballhandling and decisionmaking skills. Beno has to be the guy this year until he either produces, or gets traded. There is no realistic upside for us in any other scenario.

 

[barndoggie]

that makes alot of since bricklayer im just venting cause i cringe every time he touches the ball hopefully we can get a pg in trade. But until then i'll just have to cross my fingers every time he touches the ball, but I still think brown should get more mins he can't do worse thing beno and with a few more mins he might get comfortable and be more consistant he has played good at times at other times he makes one mistake he's out but yet beno makes mistake after mistake and stays in

 

[BMiller52]

So you are going to compare a team with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Doc Rivers and a title to a team that is 10-31 with Kenny Natt and our biggest star is Kevin Martin???



If Rondo had Salmons, Martin, Miller, Moore, and 3 rooks playing behind him AND Natt as a coach- he might look like Beno more often than not as well.

LOL, Rondo would never look like Beno no matter how bad his teammates are. He's what you call a good defender. Sorry but Ray and Pierce weren't even thought of as good defenders before they joined the Celtics, and Doc wasn't thought of as a great coach, so you're saying Kevin Garnett is the only reason Rondo plays good D? Rondo played good D when they were awful too and he was a rookie. Defense has nothing to do with how many stars you have, it has to do with QUICKNESS, EFFORT, AND TECHNIQUE. Beno has none of those. He doesn't get low enough, he's not very laterally quick, and he doesn't try at all. Quickness is something you can work on, I've done it, effort is under his control and if he gave a damn about what to do/what not to do he could've asked Ron when he was here who was ALWAYS willing to help his teammates.

You're confusing being a good team with being a good defensive player. Kyle Lowry is a good defensive player, but he's not on a team with defensive juggernauts. Dude stays low, has quickness, and gets up in your grill. Chauncey Billups changed Denver's D from awful to good and he is just one player. Mario Chalmers is a good defender, he doesn't have KG and Perkins behind him. He has a few good defenders on his team like Wade and Marion but you can't tell me that Beasley is Dennis Rodman, or that Haslem is KG. Hinrich is a good defender, similar size to Beno but he's in better shape(when he isn't injured in the last 2 years anyway) and plays harder. Beno

We weren't great with Ron but our defense was a lot better. That proves one player can improve a defense. The number one key to D is effort and Beno doesn't provide it. A lot of our team doesn't play it either, but this discussion is about Beno in particular. And we could definitely improve a lot defensively by replacing him with someone who isn't awful.

And I haven't even talked about his lack of court vision or inability to shoot the ball.

 

[bajaden]

If Luke Ridnour is a) worth the MLE and b) tradeable, then so is Beno.

Right now Ridnour looks to be worth more than Beno.

 

[kingsnation]

LOL, Rondo would never look like Beno no matter how bad his teammates are. He's what you call a good defender. Sorry but Ray and Pierce weren't even thought of as good defenders before they joined the Celtics, and Doc wasn't thought of as a great coach, so you're saying Kevin Garnett is the only reason Rondo plays good D?.

Listen, I'm not saying that Beno is the second coming of Isaiah Thomas. I'm simply saying, make sure you're keeping things in perspective.

If you are going to continue to disreguard the fact that basketball is a team sport, then we are going to continue to go around in circles.

COLLECTIVE EFFORT.

Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were never BAD defenders. Again, those players never won a title either until they CAME TOGETHER. Each's success is dependent on each other.

Remember, they were the number 1 defense in the league last year. The team.

And, btw?? I still find it really funny that you are trying to justify your point by comparing the world champion Celtics to a rebuilding 10-31 team with a interim coach.

 

[BMiller52]

Listen, I'm not saying that Beno is the second coming of Isaiah Thomas. I'm simply saying, make sure you're keeping things in perspective.

If you are going to continue to disreguard the fact that basketball is a team sport, then we are going to continue to go around in circles.

COLLECTIVE EFFORT.

Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were never BAD defenders. Again, those players never won a title either until they CAME TOGETHER. Each's success is dependent on each other.

Remember, they were the number 1 defense in the league last year. The team.

And, btw?? I still find it really funny that you are trying to justify your point by comparing the world champion Celtics to a rebuilding 10-31 team with a interim coach.

Yes basketball is a team sport but you can't say Beno is a good defender. And I'm not trying to compare the Celtics to the Kings. I'm comparing Udrih to Rondo, and Beno just doesn't measure up. I'm not saying if you put Rondo on the Kings we have the defense of the Celtics, because we won't. But we wouldn't be weak defensively at that position. Beno is simply just a bad defender, who does not have the smarts or put out the effort to play good defense. I see what you're saying but I just don't think Beno is good at all. Martin finds a way to shine on this team. Salmons finds a way at times. So does Miller. So you can't just say that being on a bad team makes him play awful because he looked this way in San Antonio also which is why they dumped him.

If anything though I think having Ron here did help him because Ron spreads the floor better than Salmons so that gives Beno more room to drive, and Ron helped him out on defense sometimes.

 

[bajaden]

I'm certainly not going to defend Beno. This thread is interesting because its the halfway pt of the season and I was going to start a thread on Beno. Whether we should have signed him or not, or whether the contract is too large or too long is history. Its what it is. And so is Beno. Confucsis say, " He who lives in the past, has no future". What the hell did he know anyway?

Back to the business at hand. Beno will never lead this team to the promised land. At least,based on what I've seen so far. Defensively, he has serious problems defending the pick and roll. The other teams know this, so their feeding him a steady diet. I do think he tries. At least on a physcial level. I'm not sure how much work he puts in studying his defensive assignment. He also gets caught in switches and gets lost. Last night Thompson switched on a pick and roll and Beno was nowhere near Thompson's man. Thompson was yelling at him to pick up his man.

Offensively, he's a mixed bag of plusses and minuses. In my opinon, his biggest problem is that he tries to do too much. There are times when he's going 100 mph up the floor when he should be doing 60. There are a few players in the league that can play at that speed, and he's no one of them. He'll make some very nice passes. Sharp and crisp. Then he'll send a floater balloon pass out there that I could pick off. Most of his turnovers are unforced, and those are the most frustrating kind.

I also question his court vision. I can't begin to count how many times I've seen someone under the basket unguarded waving his arms and Beno simply doesn't see him or he ignores him. Last night in the fourth quarter as Beno was bringing the ball down, Thompson was standing right under the basket with no one within 20 feet of him, jumping up and down and waving his arms. Beno ignored him and drove down the right lane and passed the ball to Salmons, who was fouled. I don't know if anyone else heard it on the TV, but I heard Thompson yelling at Beno that he was wide open under the basket.

I project him as a decent to good backup point guard of the future. I believe that if he can slow down his game he can improve his overall game. He is not Tony Parker and never will be. He needs to play to his strengths and avoid his weaknesses. I've cut him some slack up to this point. But I'm starting to tighten the drag, and I've only got 10 pound test.

One final note. While everyone is picking on Beno. It shouldn't be overlooked that Martins defense last night boarded on terrible. He constantly left his man wide open, or was beaten off the dribble. When you get down to it. As much as we all want great post defenders and shotblockers, our perrimmiter defense is horrible. Our post defenders are superstars by comparison. Did anyone show a picture of Redd to our team before the game so they would know what he looked like. I rewatched the game and I think I saw eight times where Thompson was running at Redd who was wide open on the outside. I don't think its necessary to point out that Thompson was not the person defending Redd. If this is what improved defense looks like, then God help us.

 

[HighTopKicks]

LOL, Rondo would never look like Beno no matter how bad his teammates are. He's what you call a good defender. Sorry but Ray and Pierce weren't even thought of as good defenders before they joined the Celtics, and Doc wasn't thought of as a great coach, so you're saying Kevin Garnett is the only reason Rondo plays good D? Rondo played good D when they were awful too and he was a rookie. Defense has nothing to do with how many stars you have, it has to do with QUICKNESS, EFFORT, AND TECHNIQUE. Beno has none of those. He doesn't get low enough, he's not very laterally quick, and he doesn't try at all. Quickness is something you can work on, I've done it, effort is under his control and if he gave a damn about what to do/what not to do he could've asked Ron when he was here who was ALWAYS willing to help his teammates.

You're confusing being a good team with being a good defensive player. Kyle Lowry is a good defensive player, but he's not on a team with defensive juggernauts. Dude stays low, has quickness, and gets up in your grill. Chauncey Billups changed Denver's D from awful to good and he is just one player. Mario Chalmers is a good defender, he doesn't have KG and Perkins behind him. He has a few good defenders on his team like Wade and Marion but you can't tell me that Beasley is Dennis Rodman, or that Haslem is KG. Hinrich is a good defender, similar size to Beno but he's in better shape(when he isn't injured in the last 2 years anyway) and plays harder. Beno

We weren't great with Ron but our defense was a lot better. That proves one player can improve a defense. The number one key to D is effort and Beno doesn't provide it. A lot of our team doesn't play it either, but this discussion is about Beno in particular. And we could definitely improve a lot defensively by replacing him with someone who isn't awful.

And I haven't even talked about his lack of court vision or inability to shoot the ball.

I won't argue about Beno's quickness or ability to get up in your grill as you put it. But, I would point out the our bigs inability to play the pick and roll, hurts Beno's performance. The bigs don't show, can't show, or won't show. Therefore, Beno is always playing catchup because he's getting picked and our bigs don't slow down the PG enough for him to catch up. So, from a team defense standpoint, his defense is affected by a poor team.

 

[Larry89]

Beno couldn't get time in San Antonio with popovich coaching him..

Jacque vaughn beat him out..

 

[VF21]

...I project him as a decent to good backup point guard of the future. ...

And I think that's exactly why Petrie signed him at the MLE. This is a team in transition and at least one-third of our roster this year (Williams, Douby, Jackson, Moore, Thomas) is obviously not in our plans for the future. Hopefully those spots will be filled by much better players who will then replace some of our starters who should not be starting...

 

[Section 101]

Brown has shown little ability to run a team and extreme inconsistency, and Cisco would stand no chance against starting PGs and defenses that woudl swarm him if teams could gameplan around him bringng it up. Beno is the guy.

And I've mentioned this before -- the absolute WORST thing we could do with Beno, regardless of whether we are planning on keeping him or planning on moving him, is to bench him. You do that and you have just created another immoveable Kenny Thomas contract. Your only hope is to play him, and have him either earn the money, or put up good enough stats that another team will take him. You bench him, and you have completely screwed yourself. If we've got some hotshot lottery pick waiting behind him, sure. We don't. We've got an inconsistent shoot first guy we signed out of summer league, a 35 year old with one leg in retirement, and a swingman with shaky ballhandling and decisionmaking skills. Beno has to be the guy this year until he either produces, or gets traded. There is no realistic upside for us in any other scenario.

I would start Jackson for his defense and give him the Stockton rotation. Take him out at the first time out and bring him back with 5 min left in the half. Let Beno work off the bench, that's where is future is anyways.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would start Jackson for his defense and give him the Stockton rotation. Take him out at the first time out and bring him back with 5 min left in the half. Let Beno work off the bench, that's where is future is anyways.

You would start a 35yr old combo guard? To what possible end?

 

[VF21]

You would start a 35yr old combo guard? To what possible end?

Perhaps to collect on the insurance when he collapses from exhaustion?

 

[JoMama]

The only Kings player who makes me scream at the TV in anger more than Brad Miller is Beno. Why us, Lord?