Kobe going for 70?
- Thread starter 4cwebb
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The criticisms of an 81 point performance are just foolish.
I assume this foolish comment is just a kneejerk reaction to that previous foolishness, but this is indeed foolish none-the-less. 51 points on over 50% shooting, 26 rebounds (including 10 offensive) 5 assists and 3 steals is not nothing. THe rest of the team shooting 15 out of 59 (25%) MAY have actually contributed to the team losing that game. Just maybe.
Great game by Kobe. Unbelievably outstanding. Wow!
I assume this foolish comment is just a kneejerk reaction to that previous foolishness, but this is indeed foolish none-the-less. 51 points on over 50% shooting, 26 rebounds (including 10 offensive) 5 assists and 3 steals is not nothing. THe rest of the team shooting 15 out of 59 (25%) MAY have actually contributed to the team losing that game. Just maybe.
Great game by Kobe. Unbelievably outstanding. Wow!
C'mon now, don't re-write history.
Kobe told the league the teams where he was willing to play, and the hornets weren't one of them (neither was Sac, by the way). THe Hornets basically had three choises.
Draft someone other than Kobe. (the coul've had Peja, who was picked next)
Draft Kobe and try to force him to play there (he had made the credible threat to play in Europe instead)
Essentially draft Vlade, by trading Kobe to an "acceptable" team, the Lakers.
"Drafting" a proven Vlade Divac with the 13th selection in the draft was not a bad move, under the circumstances. It was nothing like the straight out trade of OP for Scotty Pippen, when neither player was making demands.
Kobe told the league the teams where he was willing to play, and the hornets weren't one of them (neither was Sac, by the way). THe Hornets basically had three choises.
Draft someone other than Kobe. (the coul've had Peja, who was picked next)
Draft Kobe and try to force him to play there (he had made the credible threat to play in Europe instead)
Essentially draft Vlade, by trading Kobe to an "acceptable" team, the Lakers.
"Drafting" a proven Vlade Divac with the 13th selection in the draft was not a bad move, under the circumstances. It was nothing like the straight out trade of OP for Scotty Pippen, when neither player was making demands.
It is a situation where the team is in a no-win position.
What "should" the Griz have done when Stevie Francis started griping after they drafted him? Try to force him to play? Or trade him for less value? neither option is sterling. In the case of Kobe, the WHOLE league was intrigued by him, but he was a high school player, completely unproven.
The Hornets stared at likely scenarios of:
Kobe eventually turns out to be great, but bails from Charlotte as soon as he can, prbably before the dividends really start to come in on him.
THe high school prospect doesn't quite pan out, after several years of banking on him (think Kwame).
Kobe never sets foot in Charlette after they draft him (europe)
there was too much uncertainty around the guy for their situation.
Question: HAD the Hornets drafted and kept him, how likely do you think it is he would be there, playing and paying dividends for them now?
What "should" the Griz have done when Stevie Francis started griping after they drafted him? Try to force him to play? Or trade him for less value? neither option is sterling. In the case of Kobe, the WHOLE league was intrigued by him, but he was a high school player, completely unproven.
The Hornets stared at likely scenarios of:
Kobe eventually turns out to be great, but bails from Charlotte as soon as he can, prbably before the dividends really start to come in on him.
THe high school prospect doesn't quite pan out, after several years of banking on him (think Kwame).
Kobe never sets foot in Charlette after they draft him (europe)
there was too much uncertainty around the guy for their situation.
Question: HAD the Hornets drafted and kept him, how likely do you think it is he would be there, playing and paying dividends for them now?
C
The Hornets could have kept Kobe, played hardball, and told him, "Sorry, we own your rights, so you are playing for us." Perhaps Kobe would have come around, just like Webber did when he initially did not want to play for Sacramento.
The Hornets could have drafted Peja, future MVP Steve Nash, or Jermaine O'Neal.
The Hornets could have asked the Lakers for more than Vlade Divac. I bet the Lakers would also have thrown in their first round pick that year, which turned out to be Derek Fisher. Still an incredibly lopsided trade, but a smidge less so.
Instead they traded Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac straight up. Vlade played 2 years for the Hornets, and Kobe turned out to a Hall of Famer. OUCH.
Of course, hindsight is 20/20 vision, but if we're going to hold the Blazers' feet to the fire for passing on Jordan, why wouldn't we hold the Hornets' feet to the fire as well? They traded a player who turned out to be one of the greatest players in NBA history -- for a 28 year old above average center who gave them two solid, if unspectacular seasons. WORST...TRADE...EVER.
The Hornets could have drafted Peja, future MVP Steve Nash, or Jermaine O'Neal.
The Hornets could have asked the Lakers for more than Vlade Divac. I bet the Lakers would also have thrown in their first round pick that year, which turned out to be Derek Fisher. Still an incredibly lopsided trade, but a smidge less so.
Instead they traded Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac straight up. Vlade played 2 years for the Hornets, and Kobe turned out to a Hall of Famer. OUCH.
Of course, hindsight is 20/20 vision, but if we're going to hold the Blazers' feet to the fire for passing on Jordan, why wouldn't we hold the Hornets' feet to the fire as well? They traded a player who turned out to be one of the greatest players in NBA history -- for a 28 year old above average center who gave them two solid, if unspectacular seasons. WORST...TRADE...EVER.
Semantics, but the worst NBA trade was the one that sent Russell to Boston. Second is the one that sent Kareem to LA. Kobe for Divac might be 3rd worst. The Parish/McHale trade was pretty woeful. Polynice for Pippen. Shaq for Odom/Butler (speaking in terms of talent). Hornacek for Barkley. Traylor for Nowitzki. Ben Wallace to Detroit.
I just heard about Kobe's 81 on my way into work on Stern this monring. That's just insane. It's an impressive performance, but that show's that Phil is running the offense for Kobe and only Kobe.
All in all I think it's more impressive that Chamberlin's 100. Chamberlin was decades ahead of his time. And if you take into account the talent level, and athleticism of today compared to then, it's pretty amazing. You could argue that Kobe's ahead of his time to, I don't think so. He's just a player that's above the rest, but not ahead of his time.
All in all I think it's more impressive that Chamberlin's 100. Chamberlin was decades ahead of his time. And if you take into account the talent level, and athleticism of today compared to then, it's pretty amazing. You could argue that Kobe's ahead of his time to, I don't think so. He's just a player that's above the rest, but not ahead of his time.
I was there as well, and echo your sentiments.
I appreciate Kobe's skills on the court and recognize his talent. He does some amazing things.
But Kobe is a bad team player and the Lakers will only go so far until he becomes a true team player like MJ was. What other Lakers are better because of Kobe? None.
The NBA loves this because they market the league on selfish performers like this.
I appreciate Kobe's skills on the court and recognize his talent. He does some amazing things.
But Kobe is a bad team player and the Lakers will only go so far until he becomes a true team player like MJ was. What other Lakers are better because of Kobe? None.
The NBA loves this because they market the league on selfish performers like this.
Jordan never struck me as much of a "team player"
However it IS clear that
Pippin >>>>> Odom
Rodman or Grant >>>>>> anybody else on the Lakers
it is a little bit easier to be a "team player" when your team doesn't suck. Minus MJ the bulls where one play away from making it to the eastern conf finals. How far do you figure these lakers would go without Kobe?
However it IS clear that
Pippin >>>>> Odom
Rodman or Grant >>>>>> anybody else on the Lakers
it is a little bit easier to be a "team player" when your team doesn't suck. Minus MJ the bulls where one play away from making it to the eastern conf finals. How far do you figure these lakers would go without Kobe?
Saying he's not a team player is not totally true. While he has freelanced at times during his career to achieve his own status (start of 2001 season a good example & the distractions he caused in 2004), no one can say he hasn't played team ball for MOST of his career. They didn't go 30-1 within the 2000 season or 39-2 to close out 2001 with Kobe not being a team player. A lot of people forget that Kobe was the INITIATOR of the team's offense from 2001-2003. For the last half of 2001, his game was near perfection in every aspect. So the "must learn to become a team player" argument is dishonest.
In 2003 and since Shaq left, he has pretty much been forced to be more dominant on offense in order for the team not to be absolutely pathetic (since they had/have weak talent beyond the 2nd option).
2004 was the year you should point to, when he was making probs in the locker room and being engaged in court appearances. Since then, he's done what he's had to do. Don't tell me he has to learn to trust teammates who voluntarily blow a 5 pt lead in 28 secs. Don't tell me he has to learn to trust Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, and Sasha Vujacic. He starts doing that and they miss the playoffs again.
In 2003 and since Shaq left, he has pretty much been forced to be more dominant on offense in order for the team not to be absolutely pathetic (since they had/have weak talent beyond the 2nd option).
2004 was the year you should point to, when he was making probs in the locker room and being engaged in court appearances. Since then, he's done what he's had to do. Don't tell me he has to learn to trust teammates who voluntarily blow a 5 pt lead in 28 secs. Don't tell me he has to learn to trust Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Smush Parker, and Sasha Vujacic. He starts doing that and they miss the playoffs again.
thesanityannex said:
Of course he should not do these things you mentioned, it would make him a team player.
What I find amazing about this is the circumstances that game happened. Not that it happened against the Raptors, but that it happened in 2006 against the Raptors. There is no way in hell Chamberlain even gets close to 100 in 2006. Kobe getting 81 now is like Kobe getting 120 back then.
Totally insane.
Totally insane.
Note that those teams have loads of talent and defensive stoppers. Why are you implicitly comparing Kobe's Lakers to those teams?
Give him those teams and he plays team ball. He knows more than ANYONE else not on those teams that high level team performance = titles. It's amusing that you think you know the key, yet he doesn't.
Give him those teams and he plays team ball. He knows more than ANYONE else not on those teams that high level team performance = titles. It's amusing that you think you know the key, yet he doesn't.
It is an amazing effort indeed. I am not sure anybody can do this again soon (including Kobe himself). 55 points in one half??? 50 points is quite difficult for the whole game.
But, it is very bad for his teammates. It is not because Kobe is selfish and stuff. It is because
But after all, it is their problem. This is still quite an achievement.
But, it is very bad for his teammates. It is not because Kobe is selfish and stuff. It is because
- Financially they are going to be hurt when their contracts are up. Sure, some of them already earn a lot and basically getting their paychecks w/o doing anything, but this still does not change what's going to happen in the future. Plus, Mihm is earning about $4,000,000, Luke $1,250,000, Vujacic $910,000 and Smush $750,000 and they have one more year. I think these guys deserve more when time comes, but with this rate it is questionable.
- This one is totally speculation, but if I was a player over there, I wouldn't be satisfied with myself. Years from now, when I look myself and ask what I have achieved... Well, I got Kobe's autograph!
But after all, it is their problem. This is still quite an achievement.
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Man, I wish that we still had the archived posts from before the Crash; the 180 by some Laker fans on Shaq is positively mind-boggling...
I know the team is bad without Kobe..why do yu think he has to shoot so much?
Making the playoffs is the goal this year. I don't think anyone expects much more.
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