Kings sign Darren Collison

I support this move, because PDA I assume has the same injury concerns about IT that he did about Evans. Once he started having to play 35+mpg he broke down. And IT may not be as dependent on penetrating as Tyreke, but it's pretty close:

Our record when IT had 4+ FTA 25-23
Our record when IT had less than 3 FTA 1-23

Another pretty damning stat, since he's not here for his defense:
Our record when IT had 18+ FGA 0-14

As opposed to Rudy Gay
Our record when Gay had 16+ FGA 16-13
Our record when Gay had less than 16 FGA 5-21

Someone get Rudy the ball.
 
funkykingston said:
Overall this is a lateral move at best if IT signs elsewhere. Collison's style may work better with Gay & Cousins but IT is the more talented player. Weaker a bit defensively but a far better offensive weapon.
Click to expand...
I dunno about this... very similar players offensively in terms of shooting percentages, assists/tov, etc. IT has a much higher usage obviously... I don't think we want our pg having that high a usage though. So Collison might be a better fit offensively and clearly a bit of a defensive upgrade.
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
I support this move, because PDA I assume has the same injury concerns about IT that he did about Evans. Once he started having to play 35+mpg he broke down. And IT may not be as dependent on penetrating as Tyreke, but it's pretty close:

Our record when IT had 4+ FTA 25-23
Our record when IT had less than 3 FTA 1-23

Another pretty damning stat, since he's not here for his defense:
Our record when IT had 18+ FGA 0-14

As opposed to Rudy Gay
Our record when Gay had 16+ FGA 16-13
Our record when Gay had less than 16 FGA 5-21

Someone get Rudy the ball.
Click to expand...

HereWeVivek said:
^ wow, interesting stuff '89 Kings Fan

The team appears to be better when Rudy Gay is taking the shots and not IT. who woulda thunk it
Click to expand...

Any particular reason why the line is drawn at 18 for Thomas but 16 for Gay?
 
HereWeVivek said:
his assist percentage is like 10% lower than IT and assists per shots taken also worse than IT
Click to expand...

Asst% is directly affected by how much a PG has the ball in their hands.

IT had the 3rd highest Time of Possession in the league last year, but was 14th in creating assist opportunities.

Name Time of Poss. Asst Opportunities Asst/min
Thomas 7.6 13.2 1.736
Collison 3.6 7.5 2.083

Collison is a more effective passer and defender than IT. He is not a star, but he might be the role player we need for this team.
 
Collison is a solid signing, and 3 years at 16 million is very reasonable for what he brings. It also leaves us the option of bringing in a star PG at some point and sliding Collison to the bench where he's already proven he can produce in limited minutes. He might not have the upside that drafting Payton would have given us, but he's a better bet to be a solid pro for the next couple years anyway. I'm on board with this pickup.
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
I support this move, because PDA I assume has the same injury concerns about IT that he did about Evans. Once he started having to play 35+mpg he broke down. And IT may not be as dependent on penetrating as Tyreke, but it's pretty close:

Our record when IT had 4+ FTA 25-23
Our record when IT had less than 3 FTA 1-23
Click to expand...

Just to play devil's advocate here, that record seems to show the KINGS were dependent on Thomas' penetrating and getting to the line, not Thomas himself. That ability to drive will need to be replaced, and that is one area where Collison's game is not as strong as Thomas', from what I gather.
 
Reading on other boards that Collison was absolutely terrible in his previous opportunities to be a starter

Saw a Dallas fan saying he was awful in late game situations
 
LPKingsFan said:
Just to play devil's advocate here, that record seems to show the KINGS were dependent on Thomas' penetrating and getting to the line, not Thomas himself. That ability to drive will need to be replaced, and that is one area where Collison's game is not as strong as Thomas', from what I gather.
Click to expand...

Obviously a penetrating guard should be on our shopping list, but do you think IT would continue to throw his body around after he was paid?
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
Asst% is directly affected by how much a PG has the ball in their hands.

IT had the 3rd highest Time of Possession in the league last year, but was 14th in creating assist opportunities.

Name Time of Poss. Asst Opportunities Asst/min
Thomas 7.6 13.2 1.736
Collison 3.6 7.5 2.083

Collison is a more effective passer and defender than IT. He is not a star, but he might be the role player we need for this team.
Click to expand...
Interesting.... where are these numbers coming from?
 
Glenn said:
Cheer up. :)
Click to expand...

No cheering needed, I'm pretty happy actually.

Frustrated by the moves of the new Kings FO certainly but I've long since passed the point of getting too up or down based on what is happening with the sports teams I follow.

It makes me a less passionate fan I suppose, but a healthier person overall.
 
funkykingston said:
Which just underscores why it was a mistake to try and retool instead of blowing up the roster and rebuilding.

Big market teams can retool quickly because they can be an attractive destination for big name free agents or stars trying to force their way to a new team. The Knicks were terrible and yet they were enticing to Carmelo Anthony when he was poised to leave Denver. And the Lakers look lost and rudderless right now but they are still tied to big names this offseason because they are the Lakers.

Look at the successful small market teams. San Antonio drafted Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and Leonard. OKC drafted Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka. They also drafted Jeff Green who they traded for Perkins to add defense and beef to their frontcourt. And they drafted Harden and only traded him because they knew they couldn't afford to pay him.

The Kings needed to build through the draft. They needed to blow up the roster for cap room and to aid in tanking. And they'd need to sell Cousins on the notion which I think they could have. They were still committed to him as the face of the franchise with a big extension so I think PDA & co could have bought a couple years of loyalty. I have my doubts about Jabari Parker but I'd take him locked into a rookie deal for four years over one year of Rudy Gay at $19.3 million.

Once this team decided to let Tyreke walk the goal should have been stripping everything down to the studs and rebuilding with a Cuz as the foundation.

Yes, the team runs the risk of losing him with that strategy, but that's only if it isn't successful. Because they'll definitely lose him with this current strategy as well if it isn't successful. At least with a rebuild DMC could see the strategy.

If the FO makes no other significant moves (and assuming IT walks) then I see this team winning around 30-35 games again next season without a lot of hope for a bigger jump in seasons to come. Considering they'll be close to the luxury tax threshold I'd say that's terrible return on investment.
Click to expand...



Problem with blowing up the team and trying to win the lottery is that the Kings always get screwed in the lottery. Look what happened the last time we got the worse record in the league...
 
LPKingsFan said:
Just to play devil's advocate here, that record seems to show the KINGS were dependent on Thomas' penetrating and getting to the line, not Thomas himself. That ability to drive will need to be replaced, and that is one area where Collison's game is not as strong as Thomas', from what I gather.
Click to expand...

It's a team game. Collison averaged 2 less FTA's per 36 min than IT last season, but that doesn't really matter if he can get some better looks for the rest of the team. He's also a better defender. Our scoring from the PG position may go down this year, but that doesn't mean we got worse at that position like some people will say we did. If the overall offensive effciency improves and Collison can have an impact defensively, the team should be better. And that's the end goal.
 
sactownfan said:
DUUUUDE.... its been one year.... one year for the new ownership and front office to try and correct almost 10 years of damage.... Take a deep breath. This team is improving. Moving all our trash for Gay was a move that alone warrants you and everyone else to chill out for a little while. We got a ton of contracts that will start looking pretty tradable come all-star break. If you don't get a sense that the culture is changing by now. I dunno what else to say. you just love being emo.

Im staying super positive thru the this years all-star break and next years draft and free agency offseason . AT THAT POINT if things are a mess or not improving people can be justified with complaining.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. We've upgraded some in talent but also took on money and acquired some pieces that don't seem to fit. Every move is made with a wait til the next few moves mentality and at some point you can't keep kicking that can down the road.

I feel like 3 years is a lot of time to turn this team around and frankly some of the other lottery teams seem to have brighter futures with cap space, young talent and stockpiles of draft picks.
 
HereWeVivek said:
his assist percentage is like 10% lower than IT and assists per shots taken also worse than IT
Click to expand...

This argument could go on forever and probably will. Let's see what happens on the court. I'm not sure that we had many options. By all that we know now IT would have cost more and with all the firepower we now have on offense (fingers crossed on Stauskas) we don't need IT's extraordinary offense. It is conjecture that IT would have fit as a back up PG or even accepted it without some internal grumblings. I doubt if we could afford to wait to see what happens with IT and now can relax a bit.

My stance is taken based on the theory that we don't need a super offensive starting PG. I have hopes for Ray as backup. Or starter. Who knows as time will tell. There are no sure things and this seems to be a reasonable signing given multiple factors.

We all need to step back and take a deep breath. I think with Gay, Stauskas, and Collison, the Kings got better. I also have my fingers crossed that Landry will be of use. So shoot me. :)
 
'89 Kings Fan said:
Obviously a penetrating guard should be on our shopping list, but do you think IT would continue to throw his body around after he was paid?
Click to expand...

I don't see why he wouldn't. His chip on his shoulder and desire to be the best "little guard" come up a lot around here, mostly in negative light. I don't put too much on these sort of statements, but you can't say they indicate anything but a desire to keep "throwing his body around" as you put it.
 
HereWeVivek said:
Reading on other boards that Collison was absolutely terrible in his previous opportunities to be a starter

Saw a Dallas fan saying he was awful in late game situations
Click to expand...

Crusing thru some boards I also saw that he was bad at getting over screens hence the need to play him with chris paul, clipper/mavs fans complained about his entry pass ability, which we saw was a huge problem for us last year. Another knock on him has been BBIQ and decsion making, again a big weakness for us last year. He's lost his job at his two previous stops and has only played his best basketball backing up the best in the game. Lets see how the rest of this summer goes......
 
I do not see the need to use stretch provisions unless needed as part of S&T that increases our salary

Hoopshype has our salary for 11 players (including Acy and J Terry) at 66,547,358
Add in Nik at 120% rookie scale $2,745,840 and Collison at $5,300,000 and we are at $74,593,198 for 13 players

So if Luxury tax is at $77 mil then don't we have $2.4 mil for Trades/or one min contract from summer league?

I think using the stretch provision is dumb since that uses up potential valuable Enders at the trade deadline?
 
hrdboild said:
It's a team game. Collison averaged 2 less FTA's per 36 min than IT last season, but that doesn't really matter if he can get some better looks for the rest of the team. He's also a better defender. Our scoring from the PG position may go down this year, but that doesn't mean we got worse at that position like some people will say we did. If the overall offensive effciency improves and Collison can have an impact defensively, the team should be better. And that's the end goal.
Click to expand...

I generally agree. I just wanted to point out that those stats regarding IT's free throws and the team's record seem to indicate more than anything that his ability to draw those FTs was an asset to the team's success, not a detriment, as was implied. His FG% up close was actually better than Cousins, too. Now, the hope is that Collison can offset that by creating better shots for others, and maybe we can get some penetration from Stauskas, too.
 
Honestly, like IT he may be better suited for a bench role but he has a reasonable salary and he may be a better fit with our other stars. I don't think he's the solution to all of our problems but I also think IT as a starter at big money wasn't the answer either. Again, if we can turn IT into another piece that fits, the Collison deal looks better to me.
 
I like the signing. There is no way a top FA is coming to Sac at this point and little likelihood that any S&T with IT was going to bring back another PG certainly not a top 10 guy. Sure Collison my not be the guy we WANT, but he is here now and serviceable. Unlike IT he also should have no problem taking a back up roll when/if a top PG is obtained through trades. At < 5 mill he makes sense as a 6th man when/should upgrade happen. Now lets see what happens with IT. I have said it before, we simply can't just let him walk, so I hope the Detroit deal works out, bringing in Josh Smith could make sense of the draft and the Collison deal.
 
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