gunks
Hall of Famer
The worst part is that that's a good night on the boards for him.
[Game] Kings @ Nuggets - 3/6/17 - 6PT/9ET
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
The worst part is that that's a good night on the boards for him.
Got your message the first times. I like he coach's way.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
He doesn't have the body to bang against centers, he's fine at PF now
Is it censoring to have ONE thread that isn't about draft positions, minute distributions, etc? There are tons of threads adressing those very issues and none of them are being "censored". Allowing one thread (the game thread) to actually just be about the game isn't censorship. It's actually allowing those few fans who are still interested in talking about the team and rooting for them ONE thread to do so without being shouted down. As you said, most of you may not care but there are still some who do.
I didn't mention centers. Look at the PFs in this league. Most of them are considerably larger than Skal, which was my point.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Skal is a 7 footer and has put on muscle since training camp. His rebounding per 36 has been fine
Napear going on about his body and Hield is IMO taking shots at the Kings two brightest spots
King Baller
All-Star
Skal is a PF as far as I can see. Hield just needs repetition practicing getting away from the double teams. Papa looks pretty good over on the bench but a couple minutes a half playing against players like Plumlee and Lopez would do him some good.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
He also defends like someone who's never seen a basketball before
Kingsfan23
All-Star
In what ways?
G
glassman
Guest
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I get it. The new guys are young and exciting. The old dudes are old and consistent but not cool. That doesn't mean you just just go out with the old and in with the new.
Joerger is big on establishing habits and practices. Playing the young guys for short spurts at a high intensity gives them less opportunity to screw up and build bad habits. Remember how excited we were about a couple of minutes a game Rookie McBen? That went away when we gave him free reign and the opportunity to establish bad basketball habits and mentality.
I like awesome creative cocktails as much as the next guy but sometimes you just need a good beer.
Joerger is big on establishing habits and practices. Playing the young guys for short spurts at a high intensity gives them less opportunity to screw up and build bad habits. Remember how excited we were about a couple of minutes a game Rookie McBen? That went away when we gave him free reign and the opportunity to establish bad basketball habits and mentality.
I like awesome creative cocktails as much as the next guy but sometimes you just need a good beer.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
One play.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
It's getting to be the same people looking to be downers on what the Kings have post Cousins..,
Do you want to stipulate his bad defense?
G
glassman
Guest
oh.... ooookkkaaaayyyy.... yeah only play he's ever played any defense hahah oooooookkkkkaaaayyyyy.... good call ... maybe you should get league pass and replay the games since your not accurate in that he can't play defense .... but before you do just keep in mind all the GREAT defense AFFALO PLAYS or how about BEN over the last few years, or how about WILLIE ... who I'm down to give mins to... but is soooooo soft on defense and blocking shots....
WCS'S HEART IS ON OFFENSE.... HE DOESN'T EVEN TRY TO JUMP ON DEFENSE TO BLOCK SHOTS .... GO BACK AND JUST WATCH THAT NONSENSE...
Kingsfan23
All-Star
I've seen good instincts on that side of the floor for a 20 year old. He can be a shot blocker, runs the floor, has heart
It's now the same folks who are looking to dampen the conversation and hope we have on the roster, post Cousins IMO
Skal has turned into my favorite player to watch since Cousins got traded but Tet is right, he can't defend at all right now. Either gets overpowered, blown by or just doesn't know where to be. Tolliver is a much better defender right now.
But at this point, Skal is a better scorer and much better rebounder than Tolliver is so even if he gets beat on defense more, he still contributes in other ways. I'd like to see him get as many minutes as possible against the leagues backup PF's.
Hield is a bit better on defense and offense. If he would just get those stupid turnovers under control, we might have something here. They're pretty concerning at the moment and Malone obviously scouted that because the Nuggets were trapping him left and right. Despite that he's still sharp shooting from beyond the arc, showed a nice little step back jumper and is our best rebounding guard not named Tyreke.
Hopefully these guys improve during the offseason and come out next year as improved players. Not expecting miracles at this point but this team needs to start developing useful, above average players that can do a little more for you than the average roleplayer.
But at this point, Skal is a better scorer and much better rebounder than Tolliver is so even if he gets beat on defense more, he still contributes in other ways. I'd like to see him get as many minutes as possible against the leagues backup PF's.
Hield is a bit better on defense and offense. If he would just get those stupid turnovers under control, we might have something here. They're pretty concerning at the moment and Malone obviously scouted that because the Nuggets were trapping him left and right. Despite that he's still sharp shooting from beyond the arc, showed a nice little step back jumper and is our best rebounding guard not named Tyreke.
Hopefully these guys improve during the offseason and come out next year as improved players. Not expecting miracles at this point but this team needs to start developing useful, above average players that can do a little more for you than the average roleplayer.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Skal gets mauled by anyone with any size whatsoever. Pair him with Big Steady (Kosta) and you may have something. They'd cover for each other's weaknesses.
I know you don't trust a word Joerger says, but he straight up told Grant (who was talking about his FOUR REALLY GOOD GAMES IN A ROW) that Skal didn't have a good game against the Nets. That he looks at more than just the ball falling through the hoop.... Coach knows what he's doing.
Now... Is there a happy medium between the two sides (play kids 48 minutes vs vets only)? I think so. Skal should never only play 2 minutes. I also think it's a travesty Afflalo is getting big minutes. I think Papa should get a few minutes here and there. But Joerger is paid for reasons. He's been successful every stop he's ever been at. And despite my complaining, I think he's going to do what's best for the team TODAY. And if that means he's playing Afflalo and Tolliver over Hield and Skal... it is what it is, and it probably has a reason.
I know you don't trust a word Joerger says, but he straight up told Grant (who was talking about his FOUR REALLY GOOD GAMES IN A ROW) that Skal didn't have a good game against the Nets. That he looks at more than just the ball falling through the hoop.... Coach knows what he's doing.
Now... Is there a happy medium between the two sides (play kids 48 minutes vs vets only)? I think so. Skal should never only play 2 minutes. I also think it's a travesty Afflalo is getting big minutes. I think Papa should get a few minutes here and there. But Joerger is paid for reasons. He's been successful every stop he's ever been at. And despite my complaining, I think he's going to do what's best for the team TODAY. And if that means he's playing Afflalo and Tolliver over Hield and Skal... it is what it is, and it probably has a reason.
I get that KF.com is a bit more "prude" (or as we usually call it, "family friendly") than many other sports sites. But the idea that other sites would routinely allow the sort of abuse that glassman has been heaping upon our players and coaches does not conform with my impressions. Tonight, in order to try to get a feel for just how out of touch KF.com is with the mainstream of sports sites, I did a thorough review of not only glassman's contributions to our game thread, but also of the entire game thread at SactownRoyalty.
The SactownRoyalty game thread had a total of 203 posts when I reviewed it. While, like on KF.com, there was some gentle ribbing of the players and a few posts with some slightly less gentle ribbing of Cousins, the absolutely single most insulting post directed at a Kings player was the following:
That was the *worst* post among 203. There was not a single post demeaning the coach. Those who did express negative points of view about the team typically did so in a clever and joking way.
By contrast, of the 136 posts in the KF.com game thread, glassman made 20 (a few of those, 2 or 3 I think, actually were deleted). Of those 20 posts, I counted 13 that were clearly more egregious in insulting the Kings' players or coach, not in a funny way but in a mean-spirited way, than the worst post in the SactownRoyalty game thread. Another 4 were basically just complaining about people who didn't like his posts or the idea that his posts might violate board policy. That leaves 3 posts, out of 20, that actually might have fit in on the SactownRoyalty game thread. That's batting 15%. That's not good.
Now I don't know if STR is deleting posts that go too far, or if they simply have a kinder, gentler membership, but this doesn't really support the conclusion that the times are a-changin' and sports boards are moving towards the glassman style of anger and bitter insult.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
He doesn't belong on anyone with size. Gobert, KAT.. He's a PF
Is there a PF he's been mauled by?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And sometimes you need to invest in what will be there long term, not what will be on other squads next year. The Kings have done enough to fill the depth charts of other teams around the league already. The more time the young players get the more chance they have to learn to work through the bad habits. Perhaps rookie McBen needed more time to do the same and didn't because the opportunities weren't there? It sure looks like that was the case to me. By the time he'd finally gotten a chance to play you had 3 years of someone that had known nothing but inconsistency from his minutes to his role and as a result that's exactly what he gave you.
KingsFanGER
Starter
I don't really agree with the notion, that it will hurt Skal to play more minutes, because of potentially losing his confidence. You can't generalize those kind of things. Just because Ben or Nik struggled with their confidence, doesn't mean Skal would too, when given a bigger role. Humans are different and just because those guys are young, they don't react the same. Skal obviously made it the core principle of his offseason work to become tougher and more physical and that's clearly showing right now. Unlike Willie he isn't shying away from contact and does his best to fight through it. He is even doing this funny little scream thing everytime he dunks the ball, we saw during his pre draft workouts, which clearly indicates he has a good personal coaching staff behind him, that wanted to prepare him for the physicality and pressure of the NBA and had agood diea on how to help him to become more aggressive.
So to me Skal looks way better prepared to the NBA than guys like Ben, Nik or Willie, who have the tendency to hide themselves or just float over the court doing nothing. Skal looks eager to make things happen. And while I don't think he is necessarily the next big thing, he has some pretty advanced moves (how many 6'9 to 6'11 NBA players can hit a turn around jumpshot over the D?) and with this team going nowhere soon, we might aswell get a good look at what he is really capable off in 20+ minutes a game.
After all developing young guys will be our only way forward over the next years. How will we approach a player drafted with a Top-5 pick this coming offseason? Will we hide him behind DC or Lawson, let him play a lot of D-league minutes and bring him around slowly on a 15 win team, just because he is young?
So to me Skal looks way better prepared to the NBA than guys like Ben, Nik or Willie, who have the tendency to hide themselves or just float over the court doing nothing. Skal looks eager to make things happen. And while I don't think he is necessarily the next big thing, he has some pretty advanced moves (how many 6'9 to 6'11 NBA players can hit a turn around jumpshot over the D?) and with this team going nowhere soon, we might aswell get a good look at what he is really capable off in 20+ minutes a game.
After all developing young guys will be our only way forward over the next years. How will we approach a player drafted with a Top-5 pick this coming offseason? Will we hide him behind DC or Lawson, let him play a lot of D-league minutes and bring him around slowly on a 15 win team, just because he is young?
fansinceday1
Starter
We need to put Vivek on warning. A lot of us have a breaking point. If vivek is gonna pull an A's and turn the kings into the NBA's training ground team I'm done. No way will I tolerate that. Enough with the stupid trades.
fansinceday1
Starter
I don't approve of banning posters for being harsh on the team. If this site had an ignore button like almost every other site I've ever been to it wouldn't be a problem. Ignore the poster you want, he disappears from your feed. Easy peazy.
Instead the site has become so structured and so squeaky clean that it's lost its kind of free flowing feel it use to have. Hey, I get it. The powers that be will do as they seem fit. Your site, your rules. However, There will be consequences, as in people just bailing and going elsewhere. I've seen sites go from lots of traffic to nothing and it is extremly depressing.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
There is a difference between being hard on a team and being an ass
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
EL A Clippers
King Baller
All-Star
I like that Skal can put the ball through the hoop
The rest will come in time. His arms show the weight training he has been doing is helping. The leg work takes more time though. That turn around jumper of his is a thing of beauty. The high arch on his free throw and shot in general makes me think he is going to be a good three point shooter.
The rest will come in time. His arms show the weight training he has been doing is helping. The leg work takes more time though. That turn around jumper of his is a thing of beauty. The high arch on his free throw and shot in general makes me think he is going to be a good three point shooter.
kingjatt
Starter
Not every game will make sense to us rotation wise but I think Joerger has more than earned a minimum 2-3 year stint where he should comfortably be able to do whatever he wants to try to develop these guys.
I understand both sides though, Heck just two years ago you could not say anything questioning Vlade, anyone who brought up his lack of credentials would be talked down too and told that he cant be worse than PDA (Wrong), he learned from Pop (LOL) and he is a winner/counselor or something. We have gone the don't question the coach/GM be patient route before and have gotten burned badly(many times) but Joerger feels different in comparison to Karl/Corbin/Smart. If you watched those games back then we were a mess on the court not running any type of system and disorganized. Joerger has these guys playing hard and organized and the players absolutely play there hearts out for this guy.
Who could honestly do a better job with the roster Vlade has given him?
I understand both sides though, Heck just two years ago you could not say anything questioning Vlade, anyone who brought up his lack of credentials would be talked down too and told that he cant be worse than PDA (Wrong), he learned from Pop (LOL) and he is a winner/counselor or something. We have gone the don't question the coach/GM be patient route before and have gotten burned badly(many times) but Joerger feels different in comparison to Karl/Corbin/Smart. If you watched those games back then we were a mess on the court not running any type of system and disorganized. Joerger has these guys playing hard and organized and the players absolutely play there hearts out for this guy.
Who could honestly do a better job with the roster Vlade has given him?
Well, we have to consider whether we are at fault for our rookies not developing as well. Did we just happen to consistently draft mentally weak players, or did we create a #culture of every man for himself, and may the strong survive? Was it both? Seems odd that the only successes have been IT and DMC, players whose personality (me vs. the world) would create success in such a chaotic environment. While we can talk about how players have done after leaving the Kings (not well), we just might want to think about the fact that we were to blame for their lack of development.
My two cents: if we're working on establishing a long-term positive culture, I'd err on bringing the kids along slowly. That said, as many have already posted, Malachi was getting minutes before going down with an injury. If a player is ready, he'll play. If he's not, he won't. Just because we want to see them out there doesn't mean they deserve to be out there.
[Mod Voice on]
And, you're also creating a false narrative: nobody was banned for being "harsh" on the team. But, I'll get back to that in a minute...
I can understand why somebody who joined in 2006 might think that how it was then was better, but those of us who were around before the crash, and remember how the board was before the last Great Schism (Webber trade) know differently: most of the grownups left the board after the last base breaker (read: before 2006), and the site became overrun by the type of loud, outspoken people who created the atmosphere that you seem to think of as "free flowing." Since then, it has been a never-ending fight against the current to regain equilibrium, and now we are faced with another Broken Base situation. And, just like before, the people who are leaving aren't the ones who are causing the problems, they aren't, for the most part, the loud, obnoxious ones. The people who are leaving are the more moderate, conflict-averse posters, whom don't want to read through hundreds of posts trashing the players and/or the coach and/or management, and/or ownership, and/or other posters, but aren't willing to complain about it out loud, or don't want to enter the fray and "fight back," simply because they don't think that the juice is worth the squeeze on that particular exercise. Why fight, when you can walk away, you know?
It seems like people who wish that KingsFans.com were more "free flowing," would prefer if this place were more like Reddit, or 4Chan. But, we've never been like that, and we've never wanted to be like that. The problem isn't that the board is too "squeaky clean," the problem is that the more moderate adults, people who knew how to be critical without being jerks, were run off by the ALL-CAPS-WALL-OF-TEXT types. If you don't know how, or are otherwise unwilling to be "harsh," without going on virulent text screeds, this is probably not the place for you. So, a few of those types get run out the paint... that's not a great loss. And, if we run a few more of them out the paint, that is not going to make this a worse place to be, in the long run.
[Mod Voice off]
This site has an ignore feature; it just doesn't have an ignore "button." And the ignore feature has never been considered the solution to trash behavior; this has always been a moderated message board, since the very beginning, and it's never been policy to allow anyone unrestricted access to pollute the message board, and then tell everyone who has a problem with it, "Well, just put him on ignore, if you don't like it!" The ignore feature was never meant to serve as some kind of S.E.P. field, so that the Duke Nukems and Hoggish Greedlys of the world could have a consequence-free space to spread their particular brand of "criticism".
And, you're also creating a false narrative: nobody was banned for being "harsh" on the team. But, I'll get back to that in a minute...
Your sense of the history of this message board is... incomplete. We've already had many of our best posters 'bail'. At least twice. They didn't go elsewhere, though, they just quit message boarding. There have already been multiple exoduses (Exodi? Whatever the word is...) from this message board, the most recent of which may have preceded your arrival here.
I can understand why somebody who joined in 2006 might think that how it was then was better, but those of us who were around before the crash, and remember how the board was before the last Great Schism (Webber trade) know differently: most of the grownups left the board after the last base breaker (read: before 2006), and the site became overrun by the type of loud, outspoken people who created the atmosphere that you seem to think of as "free flowing." Since then, it has been a never-ending fight against the current to regain equilibrium, and now we are faced with another Broken Base situation. And, just like before, the people who are leaving aren't the ones who are causing the problems, they aren't, for the most part, the loud, obnoxious ones. The people who are leaving are the more moderate, conflict-averse posters, whom don't want to read through hundreds of posts trashing the players and/or the coach and/or management, and/or ownership, and/or other posters, but aren't willing to complain about it out loud, or don't want to enter the fray and "fight back," simply because they don't think that the juice is worth the squeeze on that particular exercise. Why fight, when you can walk away, you know?
It seems like people who wish that KingsFans.com were more "free flowing," would prefer if this place were more like Reddit, or 4Chan. But, we've never been like that, and we've never wanted to be like that. The problem isn't that the board is too "squeaky clean," the problem is that the more moderate adults, people who knew how to be critical without being jerks, were run off by the ALL-CAPS-WALL-OF-TEXT types. If you don't know how, or are otherwise unwilling to be "harsh," without going on virulent text screeds, this is probably not the place for you. So, a few of those types get run out the paint... that's not a great loss. And, if we run a few more of them out the paint, that is not going to make this a worse place to be, in the long run.
[Mod Voice off]