[Game] Kings @ Lakers - Sunday, Dec. 30 - 6:30PT/9:30ET

WCS with no effort, no heart last 2 min. He is soft on the boards beyond a reasonable doubt. Vlade, please work a trade when MB comes back
He really takes the “the way the ball bounces” line to heart. He noticeably completely ignores any ball that bounces even slightly away from him.

Effort my dude... you have all the tools in your box. USE THEM.

(He won’t. He is what he is)
 
Saving posession is not good enough? Anyway, most rebounds are DR, and lack of them killed us (not only) this game. What would Bagley do is irrelevant, he is not available, but Bjelica is. However, we end up playing JJ more minutes.
Yeah JJ is not a good rebounder in general. Having him in their with WCS who is a marginal rebounder against a team with length is a problem.

Not sure why you pull Giles from Stockton to fly down to LA last night and then give him no burn tonight especially against the Laker length. I especially don’t get why you don’t go back to Beli when they went with Ingram, Kuzma and McGee. We had no size against a big front line. With no interior threat they were pushing out on our Guards with bigs making us take contested 3’s. Add to that the fast break killing time out and it wasn’t Joeger’s best game.
 
He really takes the “the way the ball bounces” line to heart. He noticeably completely ignores any ball that bounces even slightly away from him.

Effort my dude... you have all the tools in your box. USE THEM.

(He won’t. He is what he is)
Yep, everyone talks about Dave developing this team but between: WCS, Pappa G, Skal, have we seen any improvement?
 
Yep, everyone talks about Dave developing this team but between: WCS, Pappa G, Skal, have we seen any improvement?
I wish PapaG was even a single step faster, because I really wish we had a really big lumbering borderline dirty goon on our team.

Always liked his skill set, but damn he was just too slow.
 
I'm not opposed to tinkering with the frontcourt.

Shumpert-Bjelica-WCS is not a winning formula. It's a stopgap and considering the age and experience of those guys it's pretty much capped out potential wise. At some point they're going to have to trade that frontcourt in for a better one if they want to be a good team. Shumpert has been better than I ever imagined but he's still not a true SF, and the Bjelica-WCS pairing is a sieve defensively and on the boards.

Trading for Otto Porter and promoting Bagley to starter is looking more appealing by the day.

And Ben-JJ-Koufos? Never, ever again,
 
Ingram lacks identity against every other team in the league but is seemingly the Pre draft Durant comp when playing the Kings.
Yeah, drives me crazy how the KINGS consistently make Ingram look like a good player. He's ok, but nowhere near #2 pick in the draft good. But the KINGS make him look as if he is.

At least Ball played like he usually does tonight. I couldn't take both of them overachieving.
 
Defensive rebounds remain our Achilles tho.
Yep. Too much standing around. Also, the KINGS guards need to be ready for the long caroms and position themselves in front of the offensive players around the 3 point line. That way when the likes of Tyson Chandler tries to bat the ball back toward his players, they are in position to intercept and start a break. Too much laziness. And that's exactly what it is .... laziness.
 
Dave completely threw that game away playing Jackson/WCS together with Shumpert in the 4th got us killed, Bjelica/Yogi/Mclemore all played better and were iced. You can't have low IQ players playing that long together in the 4th, Jackson needed constant double teams against whoever and does nothing and WCS was just throwing up crap the entire game near the rim. Shumpert is who he is he's going to throw up horrible shots but at least he plays D non-stop.

I think the Kings are onto something playing 1 big (Bagley eventually) and 3 wings player (once we get starting wings) and 1 PG. We need to go all in on Otto Porter and send them WCS/whatever else

C: Bagley/Bjelica/KK (match up case)
PF: Porter/Bjelica
SF: Shumpert/Bogie/Buddy
SG: Buddy/Bogie/Mclemore
PG: Fox/Yogi

The interior D couldn't be worse than what is now but at least we could out run everyone and force other teams to adjust like the Lakers did tonight.
 
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Yeah JJ is not a good rebounder in general. Having him in their with WCS who is a marginal rebounder against a team with length is a problem.

Not sure why you pull Giles from Stockton to fly down to LA last night and then give him no burn tonight especially against the Laker length. I especially don’t get why you don’t go back to Beli when they went with Ingram, Kuzma and McGee. We had no size against a big front line. With no interior threat they were pushing out on our Guards with bigs making us take contested 3’s. Add to that the fast break killing time out and it wasn’t Joeger’s best game.
I haven't watched previous game, but someone mentioned we had Bjelica as a center in a small ball lineup, how did it work? My prefered small ball unit woud be Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, Shump, WCS/Bjelica. WCS only if he plays his high effort game. IMO, that unit could work against GSW type starting lineup, not against Utah.
 
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I haven't watched previous game, but someone mentioned we had Bjelica as a center in a small ball lineup, how did it work? My prefered small ball unit woud be Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, Shump, WCS/Bjelica. WCS only if he plays his high effort game. IMO, that unit could work against GSW type starting lineup, not against Utah.
That unit with WCS worked great in the first half.
 
I see Willie not rotating to help out very much and it frustrates me to no end. Yeah we kinda did a good job on Kuzma but sacrificed everything else.

I was shocked to see Ben and jj get so much playing time last night and with ben’s fouls last night I would of loved to see Giles get those minutes some way.

I really put this one on the coach and what was he thinking calling a time out when we had a 2 on 1 fast break on one of our only good defensive stops later in the game.
 
This team won't be serious until Bogdan is starting and Buddy is 6th man.
You might actually be right. It was pretty obvious we were playing our best ball with Bogi on the floor. Amazing what that last game did not only to his confidence but the confidence of his teammates and coaches in him, which was already high.
 
We are missing Marvin and he can't get back soon enough.
Agreed. He can't get back soon enough. It's the weirdest thing but somehow he feels like the linchpin to this team going to the next level or at the very least stabilizing at this current level whatever that is. We have him we don't lose tonight.
 
I thought given the circumstances, Willie had a damn good game. Season high in blocks.

The Willie scapegoat effect is near peak levels in this thread.

IDK what it is here with Willie, somehow MANY have standards that are warped and twisted well beyond reason, bordering fantasy... THere's really only one way this came to pass too -- lack of perspective.

IS it as simple as some are looking for someone to blame and the last line of defense is the easy target? IDK what game y'all are watching teams are trying to isolate our PF spot, not Willie..... why do the complaints about the C spot defense outnumber the PF spot 100:1??? (same people projecting their feelings over and over and over?)
 
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I thought given the circumstances, Willie had a damn good game. Season high in blocks.

The Willie scapegoat effect is near peak levels in this thread.

IDK what it is here with Willie, somehow MANY have standards that are warped and twisted well beyond reason, bordering fantasy... THere's really only one way this came to pass too -- lack of perspective.

IS it as simple as some are looking for someone to blame and the last line of defense is the easy target? IDK what game y'all are watching teams are trying to isolate our PF spot, not Willie..... why do the complaints about the C spot defense outnumber the PF spot 100:1??? (same people projecting their feelings over and over and over?)
I thought WCS played a decent game. On both ends. Took what the defense gave him and converted a bunch of drive into the opposing centers chest and scores. Played good on the ball defense against Lakers' bigs. Got caught out of position, because he was often the on the ball defender, because of earlier switches.

Beating a dead horse here, but Kings miss Bags. With Bags, Kings have a premium perimeter athlete and two premium interior athletes. Without him, the opposing defense gravitates towards the perimeter and forces our guards to shoot over length or to drive.

That said, Kings lost that game last night. Going 1/10 or so in the 4th from three is simply a team going for the home run instead of the simple, smart play. Need Bags to get those dirty points or a guard/sf to take the ball off the bounce and force the opposing team into penalties. Fox playing hurt impacts things here--he's not as willing to take the bump and it's showing.

Since last year, we've made opposing 6'8 or taller SFs look like damn all stars--Trey Lyles, BI,Moe Harkless, Warren...Kings really need a jumbo big on the defensive end. That's our biggest weakness. Time will tell.

No Giles again. Think the coaching staff and maybe the FO have decided that Giles simply doesn't fit the new style (and I would agree). Wouldn't be surprised to see him packaged for a player or picks by Feb.
 
Fox had control of this game to a large extent, but faded in the second half of the fourth quarter. Fox makes Alonzo 8ball look really slow.
The Kings got a lot of layups, especially in the first half. But unfortunately so did the Lakers.
We did a poor job of finishing out this game.
 
This team won't be serious until Bogdan is starting and Buddy is 6th man.
I don't know about that. The Kings need Bogdan's playmaking when Fox sits. Finish the game with your best lineup, Bodgdan included, of course--but I think you are better off starting Buddy and staggering Fox/Bogdan early on. One thing I liked last night was when Fox got his fourth foul and Coach brought in both Yogi and Bogi in order to make sure the Kings still had a capable playmaker when Fox sat.
 
No Giles again. Think the coaching staff and maybe the FO have decided that Giles simply doesn't fit the new style (and I would agree). Wouldn't be surprised to see him packaged for a player or picks by Feb.
I don’t think this conclusion could be farther from the truth. He’s going to be a major part of the team, likely starting next year. I’m guessing the plan was for him to get consistent minutes this year, but he struggled out of the gate and then we ended up being too damn good to just hand out minutes.
 
Yep, everyone talks about Dave developing this team but between: WCS, Pappa G, Skal, have we seen any improvement?
Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, WCS all improved under his tenure. Bagley showed massive growth in the 6 months from Summer League to when he got hurt. Shumpert and Bjelica both having career revivals this season.

So tell me again how we haven't seen player development under Joerger?
 
I don’t think this conclusion could be farther from the truth. He’s going to be a major part of the team, likely starting next year. I’m guessing the plan was for him to get consistent minutes this year, but he struggled out of the gate and then we ended up being too damn good to just hand out minutes.
I want Giles to succeed and to do so as a King as much as any one here. But objectively looking at it, based on his current development, he’s not a great fit next to Fox. Fox is best with the ball in his hands. Giles is best with the ball in his hands. Fox plays off the ball with Bogie n does well, but the pace remains constant. Giles has the ball n the pace crawls. I just don’t know if the Kings are willing to implement such a drastic slow down to implement Giles. Memphis is or last year’s offense would’ve been the perfect spot for Giles. We’ll see.
 
Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, WCS all improved under his tenure. Bagley showed massive growth in the 6 months from Summer League to when he got hurt. Shumpert and Bjelica both having career revivals this season.

So tell me again how we haven't seen player development under Joerger?
Player dev is an undeniable strength of Vivek’s tenure. Not just the coaches, but everyone. Buying n moving the bighorns to Stockton is an under appreciated move.
 
I want Giles to succeed and to do so as a King as much as any one here. But objectively looking at it, based on his current development, he’s not a great fit next to Fox. Fox is best with the ball in his hands. Giles is best with the ball in his hands. Fox plays off the ball with Bogie n does well, but the pace remains constant. Giles has the ball n the pace crawls. I just don’t know if the Kings are willing to implement such a drastic slow down to implement Giles. Memphis is or last year’s offense would’ve been the perfect spot for Giles. We’ll see.
Giles has played like 30 games in the NBA. Why be so quick to draw conclusions? He can’t fit next to Fox? Like, really? I just don’t get it.
 
Fox, Buddy, Bogdan, WCS all improved under his tenure. Bagley showed massive growth in the 6 months from Summer League to when he got hurt. Shumpert and Bjelica both having career revivals this season.

So tell me again how we haven't seen player development under Joerger?
I didn’t say Guard development. I’m questioning the development of bigs. Including WCS.
 
I thought WCS played a decent game. On both ends. Took what the defense gave him and converted a bunch of drive into the opposing centers chest and scores. Played good on the ball defense against Lakers' bigs. Got caught out of position, because he was often the on the ball defender, because of earlier switches.

Beating a dead horse here, but Kings miss Bags. With Bags, Kings have a premium perimeter athlete and two premium interior athletes. Without him, the opposing defense gravitates towards the perimeter and forces our guards to shoot over length or to drive.

That said, Kings lost that game last night. Going 1/10 or so in the 4th from three is simply a team going for the home run instead of the simple, smart play. Need Bags to get those dirty points or a guard/sf to take the ball off the bounce and force the opposing team into penalties. Fox playing hurt impacts things here--he's not as willing to take the bump and it's showing.

Since last year, we've made opposing 6'8 or taller SFs look like damn all stars--Trey Lyles, BI,Moe Harkless, Warren...Kings really need a jumbo big on the defensive end. That's our biggest weakness. Time will tell.

No Giles again. Think the coaching staff and maybe the FO have decided that Giles simply doesn't fit the new style (and I would agree). Wouldn't be surprised to see him packaged for a player or picks by Feb.
Maybe but I know the front office really likes Giles. I’ve said from the start the disagreement in my opinion is about Giles not Bagley.

Generally high IQ players find ways to complement each other. Fox and Giles are both hi IQ.
 
I want Giles to succeed and to do so as a King as much as any one here. But objectively looking at it, based on his current development, he’s not a great fit next to Fox. Fox is best with the ball in his hands. Giles is best with the ball in his hands. Fox plays off the ball with Bogie n does well, but the pace remains constant. Giles has the ball n the pace crawls. I just don’t know if the Kings are willing to implement such a drastic slow down to implement Giles. Memphis is or last year’s offense would’ve been the perfect spot for Giles. We’ll see.
I agree Giles is good in the high post with ball screens. But he has good hands which is important with both Fox and Bogi. He can also play away from the basket which again opens up driving lanes for Fox.
 
I didn’t say Guard development. I’m questioning the development of bigs. Including WCS.
PapaG is a failure of Vlade, not Joerger. Dude should have never been drafted, which was clear as day to anyone who followed the draft.

-Skal isn't on anybody. Just what happens to a good majority of guys who have a bunch of tantalizing tools, but don't know how to play when they drafted. There was a reason he was the top high school prospect in the country and then dropped to a late first rounder after a year of school; he didn't know how to play. For a late 1st round investment, not a big loss on anybody with him not working out.

-WCS HAS improved whether you want to acknowledge it or not. He's a good starting center who makes us better when he's on the floor. I think there's certainly an argument to whether he's worth the $20+Mil center that the top 12 guys get, but the argument on whether he's a good player or not has long been decided.