Section 101
All-Star
They already said they arent taking on long term contracts without 1st round picks.
Kings Interested In Trading For Otto Porter
- Thread starter OPrime
- Start date
They already said they arent taking on long term contracts without 1st round picks.
ockingsfan
Starter
Whose they? Both Porter and Mahimni contracts are not too long. Mahimni only has one year left on his contract.
Section 101
All-Star
The Kings. Long in this case is 2 years. They want to maintain cap flexability.
Sactown ExPat
Starter
No Mahinmi under any circumstances. Completely unnecessary to eat his salary. They need to attach him to Beal.
ockingsfan
Starter
Here is the thing. I don't think Washington moves Porter, just to get under the Luxury Tax this year. They would need to get further down under the cap to make a Porter trade worth while, because they would still need to resign Kelly Oubre.
The Kings give up nothing of real value to their long term plan. Mahinmi becomes a huge ender we can use next year at the trade deadline too.
Would I prefer not to take Mahinmi in a Porter trade? Absolutley. I just don't think Washington moves Porter just to avoid the Luxury Tax this season. They would still be in salary cap hell next year if they don't move Mahinmi contract too.
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Albatros
Starter
If we trade WCS for Porter I think it'll make us worse this year but gives us a chance to be better in the long run. We are going to miss WCS unless Koufos is able to step in and play 20min a game (still not sure if Koufos is actually hurt or just hurt for the sake of giving the younger players minutes). Unlike a lot of people, I think Giles shows flashes of being a really good defensive player. It's just masked by a lot of really dumb mistakes at the moment but nothing that isn't correctable. Bagley has also shown more than we expected but neither is ready to anchor a defense right now. As much as we get on to WCS for his lack of rebounding and shot blocking, his overall game is a positive contribution whereas so far Bagley and Giles have been a net negative overall.
Porter would be a fantastic piece but we would be trading to plug a glaring hole while creating another. At that point we would need Giles or Bagley to step up next year and anchor the defense from the 5. If we don't make a trade, we don't really have anyone at the 3 that's really going to be able to step up so it's going to kind of be patch work going forward from here. I'd roll the dice and make the trade if it made sense.
Porter would be a fantastic piece but we would be trading to plug a glaring hole while creating another. At that point we would need Giles or Bagley to step up next year and anchor the defense from the 5. If we don't make a trade, we don't really have anyone at the 3 that's really going to be able to step up so it's going to kind of be patch work going forward from here. I'd roll the dice and make the trade if it made sense.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
You would honestly give up WCS and Bagley for Porter? That is lunacy. I like Porter a lot, and I wouldn't trade Bagley for him straight up, even if it were possible.
John Galt
Starter
I'm not an advanced stat guy and I mistrust a lot of them... but can you educate me on how Bagley is a net negative? Every time I see him on the floor he is grabbing loose balls and balling his ass off, and the simple old fashioned raw stats seem to support it.
What's wrong with him - either advanced eye test or advanced stats? I'm always glad when he's on the floor and not in a "he's learning" kind of way. I think he's a badass.
John Galt
Starter
The Hammer
All-Star
I'm trading Bagley (or Fox) for absolutely nobody!
Ozymandias
All-Star
This would be crazy value extracted by Vlade. I've gotta believe if this offer was on the table the Kings would've pulled the trigger already.
Ozymandias
All-Star
all indications are their asking price for Beal is extremely high. one report said 'he's functionally unavailable'
jcassio
Starter
Anyone who would give up WCS and Bagley for Porter is ... well, not worth taking seriously, to put it kindly.
I would give Wcs for Porter in a heart beat. Porter plays a premium position (switchable and big 3&D wing). We drafted Bagley at 2nd ovr and he will be the future starting center for us if we are going to be succesfull. To me Willy, Skal, Kosta, Zbo and Yogi/Mason are all expandable for Porter. Porter has allways been a rpm darling and plays a position where its hard to get premium talent.
It would be very exciting to have rotations like:
Fox/Yogi
Hield/Bogdan/Shump
Porter/Bogdan/Shump
Bjelica/Porter
Bagley/Giles
Depending on matchups very switchable on D, great shooting and spacing all the time with Bjelly and Porter playing the 4, room for Bagley to be the finisher and Fox having the space to really dominate.
The question really is what the Wizards are demanding. Washington is really in a tough position. Not good enough to compete, Walls contract is untradeable so at the same time too good to tank. Getting out of tax is probably not enough to just get Porter I would imagine. Seems that its an unrealistic scenario that we get Porter but I would ansolutely do it as a kings fan.
It would be very exciting to have rotations like:
Fox/Yogi
Hield/Bogdan/Shump
Porter/Bogdan/Shump
Bjelica/Porter
Bagley/Giles
Depending on matchups very switchable on D, great shooting and spacing all the time with Bjelly and Porter playing the 4, room for Bagley to be the finisher and Fox having the space to really dominate.
The question really is what the Wizards are demanding. Washington is really in a tough position. Not good enough to compete, Walls contract is untradeable so at the same time too good to tank. Getting out of tax is probably not enough to just get Porter I would imagine. Seems that its an unrealistic scenario that we get Porter but I would ansolutely do it as a kings fan.
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Kingsfan23
All-Star
Chase Hughes, Wizards NBC beat reporter said they aren’t looking to move Otto
I don’t see salary dump and/or WCS. It’ll take a little more value IMO.
I believe they have shown they don’t mind paying the tax, and have another year before the repeater issue (?)
If they can’t move Wall and won’t move Beal they have to retool rather than rebuild IMO. They may feel the need to get better supplementary pieces. But it’s too early in the season for them to throw in the towel too IMO
I don’t see salary dump and/or WCS. It’ll take a little more value IMO.
I believe they have shown they don’t mind paying the tax, and have another year before the repeater issue (?)
If they can’t move Wall and won’t move Beal they have to retool rather than rebuild IMO. They may feel the need to get better supplementary pieces. But it’s too early in the season for them to throw in the towel too IMO
The Hammer
All-Star
This is the type of trade I'd finally like to see the Kings on the talent laden side of. We can take the salary.
Ya even if his contract wasn’t bad
Of course he says that. They have been trying supple,entary pieces. Their organization will have to bend or they can just spin their wheels while they continue to implode. They will come to the realization they have no choice.
kingsfan101
Starter
For those willing to give up on all our young players for Porter, or those who believe Wiz won't just give Porter away, let's consider their options.
1. They stand pat.
2. They trade someone else (Beal).
3. They trade Porter to someone else for more value we are willing to offer.
In the former case, they not only pay a huge luxury tax bill this year, but also next year. Additionally, they lose Oubre, and any other chance to improve their team. All this for a bad team that's unlikely to make playoffs this year or next. Maybe they still do it, but if I'm the owner, I would hate to make those giant luxury tax payments for a lottery trip.
The second case is certainly possible, but we have seen multiple times that teams rarely get good value for their stars, particularly when salaries involved are large, and they are negotiating from a position of weakness. How will it be easier to sell to their fan base the trading of their best player, vs their third best player?
As to getting more value for Porter than just cap relief and relatively low value prospects/2nd round picks, what are really their options? Porter is being paid like an all star despite never having been one. No team is going to trade its star for him. Teams will look to add him as probably their 3rd or 4th best player. How many teams in the league will be willing to pay that kind of money to their 3rd or 4th best player? Honestly, other than us, I can think of three other teams, two of them underachieving, that might want him; Rockets and Spurs, who both hope to not only make the PO, but make some noise there, and Lakers. Lakers have been very steadfast in refusing to hand out long term contracts in the hope of luring some FAs to pair with Bron. However, if they feel they don't have a realistic shot at KD/KL, they might be tempted. They certainly can offer bunch of expirings, as well as some good prospects.
Moreover, it's not even like signing some guy in FA. Teams have to match salary. For teams, over the cap, they have to send out over 20M worth of salary to get him. Again, other than Lakers, can these teams (or any other), send out a combination worth roughly 20M of expiring/value contracts to Wiz? None of these in any case, will provide even a fraction of immediate relief that we can provide.
I haven't gone through rosters of each team to see if they can meet these requirements, but I very much doubt teams will be willing to spend so much on Porter who is clearly overpaid for his production. Most teams will have to make pretty complex deals to make salaries work. While I'm sure the bean counters can make it work, I haven't heard absolutely any noise.
1. They stand pat.
2. They trade someone else (Beal).
3. They trade Porter to someone else for more value we are willing to offer.
In the former case, they not only pay a huge luxury tax bill this year, but also next year. Additionally, they lose Oubre, and any other chance to improve their team. All this for a bad team that's unlikely to make playoffs this year or next. Maybe they still do it, but if I'm the owner, I would hate to make those giant luxury tax payments for a lottery trip.
The second case is certainly possible, but we have seen multiple times that teams rarely get good value for their stars, particularly when salaries involved are large, and they are negotiating from a position of weakness. How will it be easier to sell to their fan base the trading of their best player, vs their third best player?
As to getting more value for Porter than just cap relief and relatively low value prospects/2nd round picks, what are really their options? Porter is being paid like an all star despite never having been one. No team is going to trade its star for him. Teams will look to add him as probably their 3rd or 4th best player. How many teams in the league will be willing to pay that kind of money to their 3rd or 4th best player? Honestly, other than us, I can think of three other teams, two of them underachieving, that might want him; Rockets and Spurs, who both hope to not only make the PO, but make some noise there, and Lakers. Lakers have been very steadfast in refusing to hand out long term contracts in the hope of luring some FAs to pair with Bron. However, if they feel they don't have a realistic shot at KD/KL, they might be tempted. They certainly can offer bunch of expirings, as well as some good prospects.
Moreover, it's not even like signing some guy in FA. Teams have to match salary. For teams, over the cap, they have to send out over 20M worth of salary to get him. Again, other than Lakers, can these teams (or any other), send out a combination worth roughly 20M of expiring/value contracts to Wiz? None of these in any case, will provide even a fraction of immediate relief that we can provide.
I haven't gone through rosters of each team to see if they can meet these requirements, but I very much doubt teams will be willing to spend so much on Porter who is clearly overpaid for his production. Most teams will have to make pretty complex deals to make salaries work. While I'm sure the bean counters can make it work, I haven't heard absolutely any noise.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
They will pay a tax this year, but they may have chances to lower their salary this summer, I think. More teams will have cap this off season they may think they can get a lower deal. They may want to deal their first round pick than Porter. Oubre isn’t good, don’t think that’s a major plan.
But if they trade Porter for scraps now they are tanking their team and still have Wall/Beal with no rebuild
kingsfan101
Starter
Valid point.
As far as the eye test goes for me personally, he's not very good defensively. To me that's very normal for most rookies. He's showing that he can be a solid defender with some seasoning but there is a pretty big difference in the defense when Bagley is in there vs. Beli. His offense is solid but he's got a ways to go before he can play winning basketball on that side of the court as well. He's not quite efficient enough yet and is basically a 1 on 1 player at the moment so unless his shot goes in, he doesn't do much of anything else for the offense.
Advanced stat wise, he's 433 out of 438 in RPM. Not good at all. I mean I don't think he's the 6th worst player in the league but the stat wouldn't have him that low if he was playing winning basketball. The other one I like, VORP (value over replacement player), he's at an even 0.0 and 9th out of 15 on the Kings. Beli is 18th in RPM and 42nd in the league in VORP. We know he's been playing winning basketball because the Kings pretty much cannot win unless he plays well and they don't really lose when he plays well either. It's a good lesson for everyone on the difference between your normal box score stats and the advanced stats because Beli's regular stats don't wow you.
Part of what's hurting Bagley is the bench. The bench has just sucked for the most part. When Bagley has been subbed for Beli and gets to play with the starters, they're at +16pts but the majority of the lineups he's in are in the negative with one horrific lineup involving Bagley/Giles/JJ/Shump/Mason. That lineup is -62pts in just 16min of play. That right there has got to be hurting his advanced stats and should even out a bit as the season goes along.
To me, he's showing a lot of flashes of how good he can be in the future. The offensive rebounds, the quick moves around the hoop, the shooting stroke, his ability to get to the line and his ability to block shots are shown on a nightly basis. That stuff is really easy to notice. The stuff that we don't notice as much or tend to forget about during the course of a game are his turnovers, miss defensive assignments, lack of ball movement, and intermittent poor shot selection. I think those are the reasons why he isn't quite playing winning basketball yet.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
two days later...Otto Porter has been traded to the Brooklyn Nets
N
NBC Sports Washington
Guest
Wizards aren't looking to trade Otto Porter Jr., but Kings rumor is an interesting one originally appeared on nbcsportswashington.comThough the timing was coincidental, Otto Porter Jr.'s absence from Friday night's game against the Sixers had nothing
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Iced Espresso
Starter
I'm not interested, he makes too much money long term.
But if we did trade for him, some things to consider.
The Wizards would have trouble moving him to other teams with his salary. As far as I know we are the only team that can consume enough of their salary to get them under the tax.
His contract while being bad, isn't an albatross. So that means you shouldn't give any perks besides expiring salary, at most a second rounder which we have plenty of.
But if we did trade for him, some things to consider.
The Wizards would have trouble moving him to other teams with his salary. As far as I know we are the only team that can consume enough of their salary to get them under the tax.
His contract while being bad, isn't an albatross. So that means you shouldn't give any perks besides expiring salary, at most a second rounder which we have plenty of.
Albatros
Starter
Bagley isn't going to make this team a winner that's why I'd have him on the trade block.
