Kings Interested In Trading For Otto Porter

Bagley isn't going to make this team a winner that's why I'd have him on the trade block.
Seeing as how the last time the team was a winner was in 1951, that's not exactly a bold statement. You can propose any ludicrous thing you want, with no supporting arguments, and then say 'See I was right, they didn't win' later on. If you want anyone on this site to take you seriously, you need to give plausible reasons. In what you've said on this thread, there aren't any.
 
Here is the thing. I don't think Washington moves Porter, just to get under the Luxury Tax this year. They would need to get further down under the cap to make a Porter trade worth while, because they would still need to resign Kelly Oubre.

The Kings give up nothing of real value to their long term plan. Mahinmi becomes a huge ender we can use next year at the trade deadline too.

Would I prefer not to take Mahinmi in a Porter trade? Absolutley. I just don't think Washington moves Porter just to avoid the Luxury Tax this season. They would still be in salary cap hell next year if they don't move Mahinmi contract too.
Yep. This is the basic deal. I'd love to see us get a protected pick back too but may be wishful thinking
 
Porter going to Houston makes sense. Houston will trade Gordon and someone else to make salaries match. Houston gets a bonafide 3 and their are in the hunt again.
 
Porter going to Houston makes sense. Houston will trade Gordon and someone else to make salaries match. Houston gets a bonafide 3 and their are in the hunt again.
That doesn't help Washington at all.

They have Beal already and will be trying to shed salary, not add on a higher priced backup shooting guard.

Washington will be looking for young, cheap talent and/or Luxury Tax and salary cap relief.
 
Porter going to Houston makes sense. Houston will trade Gordon and someone else to make salaries match. Houston gets a bonafide 3 and their are in the hunt again.
It makes sense for Houston but no sense for Washington. Why would they want another shooting guard when they have a max contract guard in Beal? Gordon is not going to jumpstart their season. What they need is cap relief and help in the front court. If they’re going to blow up this team, they will more likely want some young potential in the front court along with cap relief and not just another Mid level shooting guard
 
It makes sense for Houston but no sense for Washington. Why would they want another shooting guard when they have a max contract guard in Beal? Gordon is not going to jumpstart their season. What they need is cap relief and help in the front court. If they’re going to blow up this team, they will more likely want some young potential in the front court along with cap relief and not just another Mid level shooting guard
It doesn't even really make sense for Houston since there is almost no way they could assume that salary. They'd still have to find another 12-14 million to make things match, which either means giving up Capella or throwing in more junk that makes the deal even worse for Washington.

This post should be required reading for anyone who gets worked up by this particular posters routine bashing of our club and FO.
 
Porter to Houston? What does Houston still have on the books for Anthony? How can they possibly afford him? Then there is the whole situation where there is nothing houston has that would entice the wiz....

if this is a rumor it could just be the wiz desperately trying to bid up porter

The good news is that if this is the best "alternative" to the kings they can float out there, then that means we truly are the only buyer in town
 
Why does everyone assume Washington is blowing it up? Media BS. Wall/Beal are probably not going anywhere. Washington has been playing much better lately. Only 1.5 out of 8. What if Washington is looking for scoring and defending? Not saying the deal will happen.
 
Bagley isn't going to make this team a winner that's why I'd have him on the trade block.
Please enlighten us all how you believe you know this.

MBIII is only 19 and has played a whopping 21 games in his pro career, starting none, yet has managed to average a respectable 13/6 in 24 minutes.

The KINGS don't yet know what they've got let alone you.

Just curious, did you say the same thing about De'Aaron Fox at this time last season?
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
I really can't gauge the veracity of this report, but if it's true that the Wizards locker room is not exactly kind to Otto, he'd likely be in a much better place here.

I haven't been 100% convinced the Wizards are selling on Porter (I am convinced that the Wizards are in a bad situation with respect to the salary cap, don't get me wrong, I'm just not convinced they want to sell yet) but reports like this would probably up the probability, particularly if it is Wall who is one of the guilty parties here. Wall is almost 100% untradeable due to his contract. But if Otto gets bullied into a second-tier player, they just can't justify sitting on that contract - especially as if this report is true, things will likely only get worse, not better, and the Wiz would be wise to trade Porter now before his value REALLY tanks.

I've been all in favor of trying to get Porter without giving up any long-term assets. He would be a sensible acquisition because we have a Porter-shaped hole in our roster and history says we're unlikely to fill it this offseason with a player even near his caliber in free agency. Is he overpaid? Maybe a bit, but that's the cost of business when you aren't an attractive free agent destination. This is exactly the sort of move that we ought to make with the cap space we have saved up. And if it takes eating Mahinmi's contract, so be it.

If there's a problem at all, it's that we would have to send out at least $30.94M to take in both Porter and Mahinmi. Interestingly, the package ZBo+McLemore+Shumpert+JJ is $30.97M. All of these are expiring except for JJ, who is still cheap and would step right into their rotation. I'm pretty happy with what we are getting from Shump these days, but I'm telling you, I pull the trigger on that deal today. I just don't know if the Wizards are really ready to go there. And if they are, they kind of have to jump *now*, because with the way salaries pro-rate, we are probably within a few days either way of this deal being able to get them under the tax (I'm not 100% sure of the period over which the salaries would be pro-rated), otherwise they'd have to either make another move or just accept being a bit over the tax this year to hopefully start resetting next year.

I think things get harder if we don't try to eat Mahinmi. It's a better salary position for us, but I think that part of the reason the Wizards might (*might*) be tempted to drop Porter for a small return would be to get out from under the salary burdens they've committed themselves to, and that includes Mahinmi's $31M+ over this season and the next. ZBo+McLemore for Porter straight up works, but that's basically highway robbery and the Wiz can almost certainly get a better deal than that, given that it doesn't get them under the tax. It would only save them $8.85M this year (pro-rated to about $6.6M, and they are $7.8M over the tax), so they'd probably be looking for actual talent back. There's been discussion of that actual talent being Willie instead of Ben. ZBo+Willie straight up would work and would save the Wiz another several hundred thousand, though still not enough to get under the tax. ZBo + JJ would get them low enough to get under the tax by standing pat elsewhere, but even then, that deal has to be made in a very short amount of time (based on pro-rating the salaries I estimate that deal would have to get done by about December 10th, but again I'm not sure on the actual pro-rate period).

That said, nobody else can save them more than about $5.8M in any deal for Porter alone whatsoever, so if they want to get under the tax this year, their options are 1) Trade with us and act fast, 2) Trade Porter and make several other ancillary trades, 3) Trade Porter and start waiving players (Mahinmi, Rivers), or 4) Tough luck.
 
That said, nobody else can save them more than about $5.8M in any deal for Porter alone whatsoever, so if they want to get under the tax this year, their options are 1) Trade with us and act fast, 2) Trade Porter and make several other ancillary trades, 3) Trade Porter and start waiving players (Mahinmi, Rivers), or 4) Tough luck.
I think this whole post is top-notch analysis of Washington's cap situation, and how the Kings are basically the only team that can facilitate their swift exit from the Seven Circles of Salary Cap Hell. And I happen to agree that the Kings would be wise to pull the trigger on an Otto Porter trade, especially if they didn't have to relinquish any major assets. Randolph, McLemore, Shumpert, Jackson is exactly the kind of cap relief that Washington desperately needs, and if the Kings had to eat Mahinmi's salary to get it done, so be it.

There is no wing of Porter's talent level arriving in Sacramento via free agency. Though he wasn't acquired via free agency, the best the Kings can usually do is sign wing players of Shumpert's caliber, and while Shump has been a nice piece so far this season, if the Kings are serious about turning this thing around on the backs of young, versatile talent, then Porter is the glove that fits the hand. Not only that, his contract, while a bit bloated, is up just in time for the Kings to re-sign their existing core players. That said, I can think of few better future uses of their cap space (at least, few that haven't wandered into my brain from the Land of Pipe Dreams).

But unfortunately, I think Washington is going to elect for #4 in your list of scenarios above. Ernie Grunfled is a terrible GM who is slavishly devoted to the sunk cost fallacy. Washington has been underachieving for years, and has never once crested 50 wins in the John Wall era (in a consistently weak Eastern Conference, no less). They should have wanted to Philly the whole damn thing at least a couple seasons ago, when it became clear that Wall and Beal simply were not in the same tier as other franchise-altering talents. I don't know how many losses need to pile up and how poisonous that locker room needs to get before Grunfeld does what is necessary, but your guess is as good as mine.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
And if it takes eating Mahinmi's contract, so be it.
...and if the Kings had to eat Mahinmi's salary to get it done, so be it.
I think we're clearly on the same page here! ;)

I don't know how many losses need to pile up and how poisonous that locker room needs to get before Grunfeld does what is necessary, but your guess is as good as mine.
There are the losses, there's the poisonous locker room...and there are the dollar bills flying out the window. From an outside perspective it looks like something just has to give. But there are definitely psychological barriers here. It's hard to admit that your plan is not working and to change course. I mean, seriously, both Napoleon and Hitler persisted in extending their invasions of Russia into a winter they didn't plan for. How did that go?

Somebody needs to get Grunfeld to watch Game of Thrones and take a little piece of it to heart:
 
Why does everyone assume Washington is blowing it up? Media BS. Wall/Beal are probably not going anywhere. Washington has been playing much better lately. Only 1.5 out of 8. What if Washington is looking for scoring and defending? Not saying the deal will happen.
If they're not looking to blow it up then it makes even little sense that they would want Gordon from Houston. Why would they need another shooting guard??
 
Hey @Capt. Factorial maybe my understanding of tax is off, but I thought as long as you got the salary off your books before the end of the year you were out of the tax. Much like the meeting the salary floor only needs to happen by the end of the season.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
 
Hey @Capt. Factorial maybe my understanding of tax is off, but I thought as long as you got the salary off your books before the end of the year you were out of the tax. Much like the meeting the salary floor only needs to happen by the end of the season.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

Actually reading the Coon FAQ, it looks like I am correct, unless I am missing something. So I don't think this makes the Wizards feel like they need to hastily make a deal.

I cant remember if Porter had a trade kicker.


EDIT: Looks like he did, now I gotta figure out how that works.

Trade Kickers:

Otto Porter — 15 percent
Note: Players can waive their trade bonuses.


When determining the amount of tax a team owes, the league uses its team salary (see question number 13) on the date of its last regular season game (i.e., if a player is traded away before the end of the season, then none of his salary is taxed), with the following adjustments:

Cap holds and exceptions are ignored.
Any "unlikely bonuses" (see question number 74) that were actually earned are added to the team salary.
Any "likely bonuses" (see question number 74) that were not earned are subtracted from the team salary.
Any trade bonuses (see question number 99) for players received in trade after the last regular season game are added to the team salary. This amount may be pro-rated -- see question number 100 for details.
Any amounts from settlements of grievances are added to the team salary.
For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) under the current CBA, and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.2
For minimum salary players whose salary is partially paid by the league (see question number 22) only the amount paid by the team (the two-year minimum salary) is taxed.
 
Sorry for the info dump. Looks like the trade bones at 15% is on the prorated remaining guaranteed salary. Option years are not included. So whenever he is traded if its this year it would be the remaining of this year contract and next years. His PO for the following year is not included.

So if this year is half way over he'd be looking at about a $6MM trade kicker (15% of 40ish Million)

Sounds like a prorated amount of the trade bonus is added to their cap this year? Seems like it's a bit more difficult to gauge the actual tax savings based on that information.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
Hey @Capt. Factorial maybe my understanding of tax is off, but I thought as long as you got the salary off your books before the end of the year you were out of the tax. Much like the meeting the salary floor only needs to happen by the end of the season.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right on that, and I mistook the MLB rule for the NBA rule in my head!
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
Sorry for the info dump. Looks like the trade bones at 15% is on the prorated remaining guaranteed salary. Option years are not included. So whenever he is traded if its this year it would be the remaining of this year contract and next years. His PO for the following year is not included.

So if this year is half way over he'd be looking at about a $6MM trade kicker (15% of 40ish Million)

Sounds like a prorated amount of the trade bonus is added to their cap this year? Seems like it's a bit more difficult to gauge the actual tax savings based on that information.
I forgot about his trade kicker. Trade kicker stuff is a mess. The best thing to do is hope that his situation in Washington is bad enough that he's willing to waive the kicker entirely to get out. Saves me having to think. ;)
 
I really can't gauge the veracity of this report, but if it's true that the Wizards locker room is not exactly kind to Otto, he'd likely be in a much better place here.

I haven't been 100% convinced the Wizards are selling on Porter (I am convinced that the Wizards are in a bad situation with respect to the salary cap, don't get me wrong, I'm just not convinced they want to sell yet) but reports like this would probably up the probability, particularly if it is Wall who is one of the guilty parties here. Wall is almost 100% untradeable due to his contract. But if Otto gets bullied into a second-tier player, they just can't justify sitting on that contract - especially as if this report is true, things will likely only get worse, not better, and the Wiz would be wise to trade Porter now before his value REALLY tanks.

I've been all in favor of trying to get Porter without giving up any long-term assets. He would be a sensible acquisition because we have a Porter-shaped hole in our roster and history says we're unlikely to fill it this offseason with a player even near his caliber in free agency. Is he overpaid? Maybe a bit, but that's the cost of business when you aren't an attractive free agent destination. This is exactly the sort of move that we ought to make with the cap space we have saved up. And if it takes eating Mahinmi's contract, so be it.

If there's a problem at all, it's that we would have to send out at least $30.94M to take in both Porter and Mahinmi. Interestingly, the package ZBo+McLemore+Shumpert+JJ is $30.97M. All of these are expiring except for JJ, who is still cheap and would step right into their rotation. I'm pretty happy with what we are getting from Shump these days, but I'm telling you, I pull the trigger on that deal today. I just don't know if the Wizards are really ready to go there. And if they are, they kind of have to jump *now*, because with the way salaries pro-rate, we are probably within a few days either way of this deal being able to get them under the tax (I'm not 100% sure of the period over which the salaries would be pro-rated), otherwise they'd have to either make another move or just accept being a bit over the tax this year to hopefully start resetting next year.

I think things get harder if we don't try to eat Mahinmi. It's a better salary position for us, but I think that part of the reason the Wizards might (*might*) be tempted to drop Porter for a small return would be to get out from under the salary burdens they've committed themselves to, and that includes Mahinmi's $31M+ over this season and the next. ZBo+McLemore for Porter straight up works, but that's basically highway robbery and the Wiz can almost certainly get a better deal than that, given that it doesn't get them under the tax. It would only save them $8.85M this year (pro-rated to about $6.6M, and they are $7.8M over the tax), so they'd probably be looking for actual talent back. There's been discussion of that actual talent being Willie instead of Ben. ZBo+Willie straight up would work and would save the Wiz another several hundred thousand, though still not enough to get under the tax. ZBo + JJ would get them low enough to get under the tax by standing pat elsewhere, but even then, that deal has to be made in a very short amount of time (based on pro-rating the salaries I estimate that deal would have to get done by about December 10th, but again I'm not sure on the actual pro-rate period).

That said, nobody else can save them more than about $5.8M in any deal for Porter alone whatsoever, so if they want to get under the tax this year, their options are 1) Trade with us and act fast, 2) Trade Porter and make several other ancillary trades, 3) Trade Porter and start waiving players (Mahinmi, Rivers), or 4) Tough luck.
What a great post!
 
I really can't gauge the veracity of this report, but if it's true that the Wizards locker room is not exactly kind to Otto, he'd likely be in a much better place here.

I haven't been 100% convinced the Wizards are selling on Porter (I am convinced that the Wizards are in a bad situation with respect to the salary cap, don't get me wrong, I'm just not convinced they want to sell yet) but reports like this would probably up the probability, particularly if it is Wall who is one of the guilty parties here. Wall is almost 100% untradeable due to his contract. But if Otto gets bullied into a second-tier player, they just can't justify sitting on that contract - especially as if this report is true, things will likely only get worse, not better, and the Wiz would be wise to trade Porter now before his value REALLY tanks.

I've been all in favor of trying to get Porter without giving up any long-term assets. He would be a sensible acquisition because we have a Porter-shaped hole in our roster and history says we're unlikely to fill it this offseason with a player even near his caliber in free agency. Is he overpaid? Maybe a bit, but that's the cost of business when you aren't an attractive free agent destination. This is exactly the sort of move that we ought to make with the cap space we have saved up. And if it takes eating Mahinmi's contract, so be it.

If there's a problem at all, it's that we would have to send out at least $30.94M to take in both Porter and Mahinmi. Interestingly, the package ZBo+McLemore+Shumpert+JJ is $30.97M. All of these are expiring except for JJ, who is still cheap and would step right into their rotation. I'm pretty happy with what we are getting from Shump these days, but I'm telling you, I pull the trigger on that deal today. I just don't know if the Wizards are really ready to go there. And if they are, they kind of have to jump *now*, because with the way salaries pro-rate, we are probably within a few days either way of this deal being able to get them under the tax (I'm not 100% sure of the period over which the salaries would be pro-rated), otherwise they'd have to either make another move or just accept being a bit over the tax this year to hopefully start resetting next year.

I think things get harder if we don't try to eat Mahinmi. It's a better salary position for us, but I think that part of the reason the Wizards might (*might*) be tempted to drop Porter for a small return would be to get out from under the salary burdens they've committed themselves to, and that includes Mahinmi's $31M+ over this season and the next. ZBo+McLemore for Porter straight up works, but that's basically highway robbery and the Wiz can almost certainly get a better deal than that, given that it doesn't get them under the tax. It would only save them $8.85M this year (pro-rated to about $6.6M, and they are $7.8M over the tax), so they'd probably be looking for actual talent back. There's been discussion of that actual talent being Willie instead of Ben. ZBo+Willie straight up would work and would save the Wiz another several hundred thousand, though still not enough to get under the tax. ZBo + JJ would get them low enough to get under the tax by standing pat elsewhere, but even then, that deal has to be made in a very short amount of time (based on pro-rating the salaries I estimate that deal would have to get done by about December 10th, but again I'm not sure on the actual pro-rate period).

That said, nobody else can save them more than about $5.8M in any deal for Porter alone whatsoever, so if they want to get under the tax this year, their options are 1) Trade with us and act fast, 2) Trade Porter and make several other ancillary trades, 3) Trade Porter and start waiving players (Mahinmi, Rivers), or 4) Tough luck.
Porter and mahinmi is the only thing that makes sense to both sides imo. Otherwise not enough reason for the wiz to pull the trigger. Kings are in a position to absorb the cap hit. Unless some 1st round picks are being offered by other teams to shed salary, nothing better is likely to come along