[Game] Kings @ Heat - 11/19/15 - 4:30 PST, 7:30 EST

[KingMilz]

Terrible game for Rudy to be out.

They have Oladipo, Fournier, Harris, and Vucevic.

We need Rudy vs. Orlando.

All of which would have massacred him on offense

Well all of those people who complain about Gay iso (I'm one of them), we will get to see what the team looks like without him in Orlando, most likely.

We got to see what the team looked like without him today and really we didn't look any worse without him which is saying something for a supposed "top 5"/"'elite 2nd option"'' SF as people have called him. We still scored the same and we had 1 less defensive liability on the floor. Rudy Gay is basically Jamal Crawford minus the ball handling.

 

[hrdboild]

We can try to find all the positives we can but the fact remains we are 4-9 and its not like our schedule ever gets "easy". Last night and tonight are games playoff contenders should be able to get, Atlanta without two of their starters and imo a very average Miami team. I mean the Jazz just beat Atlanta on the road and Minnesotta beat the Heat in Miami within the last week. Dallas beat Houston without three of their starters. Portland squashed Memphis at home. We have accumulated some losses here that could/should be wins if we are serious about making a playoff push.

Expecting the schedule to ever get easy is part of the problem. I look at the schedule and I see a team that we should beat every single night. Even Golden State, who has yet to lose, was a game we could have won even without Cousins if we didn't make stupid mistakes down the stretch. Making the playoffs is going to take a hell of a lot more than just winning the "easy" ones. I'm encouraged because I see enough evidence that the talent we have right now measures up with any team in the league. Turning the corner toward actual relevance in the league is about more than just talent though. It's about preparation and believing in yourself, and believing in your teammates, and focusing on winning every possession. In other words, the talent is there. The mental fortitude needs to come too or we'll forever be losing close games we could have won. We're capable of getting stops when we're focused. That means all five players have to be keyed in though to what the game plan is. Most of the turnovers come from lack of focus too. These are self-inflicted wounds. If this rough stretch is what it takes to get there, I'm not going to sweat the losses.

The only nagging concern I have right now -- 12 games into the season -- has to do with the obvious ongoing feud between George Karl and DeMarcus Cousins and how that's going to play out. The close losses sting a little but none of this even matters if our franchise player, legit MVP candidate, starting center is pissed off at the coach all season long. There's no way we're ever going to be a mentally strong team with that hanging over our heads. It seems to me that we have enough veteran players who know how to win now that we might even be better off without a head coach. Pretty much anything would be better and I don't see an easy solution. Trading DeMarcus gets us nowhere. He's too talented to just give up on. Firing George Karl sets a bad precedent too but if they can't get along, that's where we're probably headed.

 

[VF21]

All of which would have massacred him on offense

We got to see what the team looked like without him today and really we didn't look any worse without him which is saying something for a supposed "top 5"/"'elite 2nd option"'' SF as people have called him. We still scored the same and we had 1 less defensive liability on the floor. Rudy Gay is basically Jamal Crawford minus the ball handling.

Three key words.

 

[KingMilz]

Three key words.

Which he's not cause an elite 2nd option can step up when the 1st option is out or not playing well.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Again the Kings were driving into traffic way too often and it resulted into blocked shots, forced shots and turnovers.
And we dont get enough calls to make this aggressive playstyle work.
4-9 .... if we continue to play like this and continue to play matador defense, the playoffs will be nothing more than a dream.
It's frustrating to watch.

 

[randymoss1881]

Well, if we were Golden State, it would be a two-possession game.

Well Karl thinks we are Golden State
With his small ball bull crap

 

[Letsgokings13]

Is it just me being biased, or are the refs calling some real ticky tack fouls on us and letting the other teams get away with murder lately?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well Karl thinks we are Golden State...

... And there's the rub...

 

[mac]

Is it just me being biased, or are the refs calling some real ticky tack fouls on us and letting the other teams get away with murder lately?

Just you being biased. Every fan on every fan forum will say the same about their team. Wanna know what Clippers fans think about Griffin getting foul calls?

 

[Kingston Jamaica]

Just you being biased. Every fan on every fan forum will say the same about their team. Wanna know what Clippers fans think about Griffin getting foul calls?

Right! The only team that can't complain is the Rockets. Harden would be just a regular dude if he didn't get those calls. By the way, in the PO's he get's much less and, therefore, he always underachieves in the PO's.

 

[Hoovtrain]

They will be lucky to end up 1-5 on this trip

 

[twslam07]

Which he's not cause an elite 2nd option can step up when the 1st option is out or not playing well.

I have been noticing Gay forcing the issue on offense. When he takes those two dribbles to get into the lane, he almost never passes it out. He'll try to put it over 2 or 3 guys often times. When they collapse on him, he needs to kick it out. It's similar to Cousins (although I think Cousins is getting better at it) but at least Cousins is contributing in other ways so you live with it.

Gay is a talented scorer, but he needs to buy into the team concept and take what the offense gives him. If he does that, I would say that is when we will see him become an elite 2nd option. Right now, I would only call him a good 2nd option and an elite 3rd option.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Gay in a trade, but I really don't know what we would get back (and how Rondo/Cousins would react). The one bright spot is his contract, with the cap going up. He's going to be making closer to 3rd option type money, but with Rondo likely wanting a big payday next year, it doesn't leave us with much to try and bring in that 2nd option.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Again the Kings were driving into traffic way too often and it resulted into blocked shots, forced shots and turnovers.
And we dont get enough calls to make this aggressive playstyle work.
4-9 .... if we continue to play like this and continue to play matador defense, the playoffs will be nothing more than a dream.
It's frustrating to watch.

This. As for Rudy, fast pace hurts his game as much as anyone. He has a very unique skill set, which is rising over SF's. Yes, ISO when it is called upon. Many others cannot pull it off but he can. The guy is a very good player and will benefit from slowing down as much as any other King. Unique ISO game when necessary, no top shelf ball handler, better defense when settled. Put those together, that's why slowing down is critical.

This is scapegoat psychology going on. Ben is currently not the whipping boy, now it's Rudy. He's not an "ELITE" second scorer so he's terrible.

 

[gunks]

For the record, I've always bashed Rudy.

 

[Bricklayer]

I have been noticing Gay forcing the issue on offense. When he takes those two dribbles to get into the lane, he almost never passes it out. He'll try to put it over 2 or 3 guys often times. When they collapse on him, he needs to kick it out. It's similar to Cousins (although I think Cousins is getting better at it) but at least Cousins is contributing in other ways so you live with it.

Gay is a talented scorer, but he needs to buy into the team concept and take what the offense gives him. If he does that, I would say that is when we will see him become an elite 2nd option. Right now, I would only call him a good 2nd option and an elite 3rd option.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Gay in a trade, but I really don't know what we would get back (and how Rondo/Cousins would react). The one bright spot is his contract, with the cap going up. He's going to be making closer to 3rd option type money, but with Rondo likely wanting a big payday next year, it doesn't leave us with much to try and bring in that 2nd option.

The problem is the old coach, not Rudy. Rudy's been doing his thing for years. The coach is ****ing that up. Rudy hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play. I am reminded of nothing so much as when Shaw arrived and found all Karl's garbage personnel still on the Denver roster and tried to force them to grow up and learn how to play in the half court. Except that went directly against their skillsets and they ended up looking awful. Not because they had forgotten how to play, but because they had an idiot coach who put ideology over coaching the guys in front of him. He got what was coming to him too.

If anybody's got a fun retirement community for elders they know of, bundle the old dude up and send him on his way. I hear the M/F ratios rally rock once you start pushing 70 or so.

 

[kingjatt]

Rudy can pound most 3s inside, thats gone when he goes up against bigger 4s. "Dribble Drive" philosophy forces Rudy to try to beat guys off the dribble, which goes directly against his main strengths and makes him look awkward as hell. Rudy didnt suddenly lose all of his talent he is still a primer SF in this league. Put Rudy back at his usual 3 spot and watch him flourish.

 

[twslam07]

The problem is the old coach, not Rudy. Rudy's been doing his thing for years. The coach is ****ing that up. Rudy hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play. I am reminded of nothing so much as when Shaw arrived and found all Karl's garbage personnel still on the Denver roster and tried to force them to grow up and learn how to play in the half court. Except that went directly against their skillsets and they ended up looking awful. Not because they had forgotten how to play, but because they had an idiot coach who put ideology over coaching the guys in front of him. He got what was coming to him too.

If anybody's got a fun retirement community for elders they know of, bundle the old dude up and send him on his way. I hear the M/F ratios rally rock once you start pushing 70 or so.

I'm not saying that Karl has done a good job with this roster because that would be untrue. What I'm referencing are plays that Rudy happens to be making that play to his strengths (catch the ball, take a couple dribbles to either free him up/get into the paint, & finish). That's when Gay is at his best. However, I'm seeing Gay make poor decisions when playing to his strengths. Often times he gets the defense to commit to him, but he doesn't look to find the open man. He's done his job. He broke down the defense, but he bails them out by putting up a contested shot in the paint. He needs to be able to recognize that and find the open man.

When Cousins is out, it's not all about Gay getting his points. It's about Gay breaking down the defense and making the right choices that lead to buckets. Kawhi Leonard said it best when talking about how Poppovich is starting to call plays for him. Kawhi said "You want me to score on these plays?" Poppovich replied, "No. I want us to score." Just because Gay is the focal point of the offense (with Cousins out), he should be in the mindset of the team scoring and not in the mindset of "Boogie is out. I have to pick-up the slack in the points column." Cousins can even be better at this, but Gay, who doesn't contribute that much elsewhere, needs to become this type of player. If both Cousins and Gay were focused on making the right play rather than scoring, our team would be much better. Cousins is still young and figuring it out. Gay is getting up there. I'm hopeful he can change his ways, but I'm not betting on it any time soon.

Again, this is not me defending Karl in any way. Karl needs to get his head out of his a** and play to this team's strengths. Having said that, if we get to a point where Karl comes around and adapts to our team's abilities, taking the next step towards a serious contender will be on Gay & Cousins to move into the right mindset while playing.

What's the old saying? You only go as far as your best players can take you.

 

[SacKings384]

The problem is the old coach, not Rudy. Rudy's been doing his thing for years. The coach is ****ing that up. Rudy hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play. I am reminded of nothing so much as when Shaw arrived and found all Karl's garbage personnel still on the Denver roster and tried to force them to grow up and learn how to play in the half court. Except that went directly against their skillsets and they ended up looking awful. Not because they had forgotten how to play, but because they had an idiot coach who put ideology over coaching the guys in front of him. He got what was coming to him too.

If anybody's got a fun retirement community for elders they know of, bundle the old dude up and send him on his way. I hear the M/F ratios rally rock once you start pushing 70 or so.

Yeah. I liked the much leaner slashing 3 in Rudy Gay. Not the post-up heavier Rudy we're seeing now. I think a lot of it is the result of Karl trying to go small with Rudy at the 4, trying to make him more of a physical guy. I don't like it one bit.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

Rudy should be physical. He's not a soft player and that's a strength of his. But he should not be physical in constant fast transition, and certainly not at the 4. It leads to fouls and ball handling mishaps. It's not what made him successful. He needs to slow down with the rest of the team. I would rather have a player like Rudy who is skilled at half court rather than being reliant on some wild court play. Just slow it down.

 

[VF21]

Which he's not cause an elite 2nd option can step up when the 1st option is out or not playing well.

Maybe in your mind. I think Rudy is an excellent 2nd option but just does not work as a 1st option.

 

[Bricklayer]

There are maybe half a dozen 2nd options who can step up smoothly and replace a first option. Everybody else makes do as best they can.

The real key to winning without a star is to buckle down on defense. Unfortunately we don't do that stuff, and haven't for a decade.