Kingsfan23
All-Star
The Gay/Casspi lineup did well last year
[Game] Kings @ Celtics - 12/2/16 - 4:30PT/7:30ET
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
The Gay/Casspi lineup did well last year
So what? Who was in charge when we traded Webber for "flexible pieces"? Who was in charge when we paid $12M for Arron Afflalo? What makes you think that this management will do any better job at managing our assets than the one before it, or the one before that?
PurpleHaze
All-Star
Plus Temple on the floor as 3 pt option not Casspi or Santa McLemore, somebody!
jcwkings
All-Star
One thing I wonder is how Cousins feels in terms of being here long term. Did the Durant and Westbrook situations affect his view? He seems like a guy that would die fighting his war before conceding and choosing to join another team. It would mean more to him to win here, even if its going to be a process. IMO The FO would shop Cousins before he would request a trade.
Blob
Starter
That's something Joerger said he wouldn't do. As a coach who was around him in Memphis, I defer to his experience and perspective to maximize his skill set. So far, pretty good. And even without having seen every game with Rudy as a Grizzly, I know he's not a banger, a rebounder, an interior force.
Bottom line, Rudy as a PF is not the solution to our woes.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
He's loyal, but I don't think you can take that chance, that he would re sign with a team not getting off the ground.
jcwkings
All-Star
Certainly not, but you can negotiate an extension like Westbrook did before taking calls.
Blob
Starter
What makes you think I am defending Vlade? I am not. You are all over the place man, all I said is that the horrific mistake to let Isaiah walk for nothing was made by someone no longer with the organization. That doesn't mean the replacement is any less prudent.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Gay/Collison are letting down as second/third options. Proving might not be up to it
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Yeah, but to get best return he has to be traded by this deadline, no? Not only that, have to worry about this years pick and the extra wins
We will see
kingjatt
Starter
That was suppose to be our solution, our frontcourt for 10+ years but Willie is trending towards being a bust given his age. He gets points doing what anyone who is 7ft tall can do, and the reason we drafted him was to take the defensive assignments next to Cuz and switch on the 1-5/1-4 etc pick n rolls but he is even worse on defense. He avoids contact like the plague and is constantly out of position or defending with his hands down. He was the "safe pick" given his age but he is killing us by basically being unplayable. Having cuz means we dont need much out of a 4 but Willie just has no instincts for the game and its getting to late for him.
jcwkings
All-Star
He is sucking playing the 5, but last season Willie and Cousins were interchangable between 4 and 5 based on matchups. He is better being a sort of free safety on defense, using his length and quickness do disrupt the offense. His best defensive plays were plays from behind rather than meeting someone at the rim.
Blob
Starter
I agree with you...but its hard for me to bash Joeger for his reluctance to start Willie...he's just been so....unimpressive.
And whatever the opposite of grit and toughness is, Willie has been that.
There's no anticipation to attack the glass and NO desire to be a star.
This is a sad state of affairs.
We need a star not another guy who wants to blend in.
In the meantime there's knowing where to be on the floor in play sets and Koufos at least knows that.
So this is where we are....with a coach and GM with at crossroads.
I know what I'd do, and it wouldn't be more of the same.
Suicide King
Starter
Lackadaisical Indifference is what I would call it. This is coming from a huge proponent of WCS that believes he has the tools to be great.
You're real good at reading stuff that isn't there. I didn't accuse you of defending Divac. Stating that D'Alessandro was fired as a counter to my argument that nobody should have any faith in our ability to get assets for Cousins is a poor one. Because, in the first place, my main point was that it doesn't matter that D'Alessandro was fired, because him merely getting fired wasn't half as bad as what should have happened to him, IMO. That's why I mentioned beheading: because, AFAIC, firing him wasn't good enough. And, in the second place, this team has a track record of making bad moves, no matter who the GM is: in other words, I wasn't saying that we should be skeptical because one GM was bad at his job, I'm saying that we should be skeptical because all of our GMs have been bad at their job! D'Alessandro wasn't the first Kings general manager to be bad at his job and, at the moment, it doesn't appear as though he was the last Kings general manager to be bad at his job.
I am not "all over the place." The train of thought is fairly easy to follow: trading Thomas for essentially nothing is just the tip of the iceberg of how bad a GM D'Alessandro was. However, comma, aside from about a six-year oasis, where we basically fell ass-first into a pile of gold, none of the other GMs that we've had before or since have been appreciably better, so why would anyone believe that we could pull off a hard reset?
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
McLemore didn't play all game, why would he be inserted cold? Regardless, if the point was to draw a foul then shake my head.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
When were they ever considered to be viable second and third options? they are so because the Kings have no one else on the roster with that ability so by default, it's them two.
Blob
Starter
Are you serious? Why should Vlade be held accountable for anything ANY previous GM did? Pete was BAD at his job but that doesn't discredit his replacement. And what are you even referring to when you say the dismissal of Pete wasn't as bad as what should have happened to him? Are you suggesting there is something worse than losing your job for being incompetent because I don't know what that is....I assumed your idea of beheading was a joke. But maybe you have spent too much time watching Game of Thrones.
Pete had nothing to do with Geoff Petrie. Vlade had nothing to do with Pete. Vlade has nothing to do with his potential replacement. These are individuals with their own philosophy and strategic decisions. To say Vlade is doomed because we have a string of bad GMs is to assign blame where it is unjustified. Why am I even pointing out the obvious here? Please tell me you do NOT need to be pointed to the obvious.
PurpleHaze
All-Star
I know, Kings needed gift from somewhere which is why called him Santa. Casspi inserted probably best option but leaving Temple in at that point virtually useless.
What a bunch of weird assembled parts on this team outside of "big two." I'm almost ready for ultimate blockbuster trade of Cuz and Rudy together for some actually fit together all-star parts and boat load of high (very high) draft picks. Probably would be 4-5 team trade but what we have no better than last year at least measured by identical losing records at this point in season.
Blob
Starter
Gay and Collison can be respectable 2nd and 3rd options on MOST nights. They have shown as much before. Where we need more is the SG and PF.....Affalo EXPLODING for 20-25 points, or Willie PUMPING 18 and 12 ...... these are the contributions needed over an 82 game stretch when the opponent keys in on our best guys.....and this is where we fall short due to POOR intrinsic (draft pick) and extrinsic (trade, free agent) development.... It's not complicated really. We have a player on the borderline of greatness. His name is Boogie. Then we have a bunch of guys trying to join in or catch up or arrive to the party. So far not so good, hence 7-12.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
Respectable on most nights? ehh I'd beg to differ, Gay would be a solid 3rd or 4th option on a contender and Collison would be more ideal coming off the bench and putting up points in a hurry IMO but he starts here and Gay is the second option here, when they both are gone, we will see how they truly help a team because you can only garner so much from a player while in Sacramento because of poor fit or not enough drive to compete for 82 rather than when on a winner.
Afflalo is, was and will be a bad pick up, he was picked up because everyone else was gone and that's not how moves should be made but I can't complain long term because he is not here long term so it's all moot. We can't be expecting 10 and 10 out of Willie because he just doesn't have that drive right now to go out and bring it every night. If Boogie doesn't mind wasting his greatness on bad and below average teams, then by all means, I'm sure the Kings fans will welcome it and watch a few more seasons of it. Otherwise, Vlade can do him a favor, but even that I'm afraid of so I'd rather take my chance of him extending.
Blob
Starter
Rudy has a 20 PER and 57% TS with 6 RPG and 3 AST. Those are numbers you can win with as #2 if you get help elsewhere. But help elsewhere has been lacking. Darren is 59% TS and 2.5 assist to TO. You don't think this is winning basketball? I do. It's the rest of the team that has failed us, starting with (1) Affalo, (2) Koufos, (3) Barnes, (4) Wille (5) Omri and (6) Ty (until recently). There's a fall off after four (five) guys: Boogie, Rudy, Temple, Ty, and Darren can be part of a 45 win team. But they can't do it until 1-2 teammates (existing or new) join in. For example if Willie was a force, this team would take off. If Ben elevated himself to legitimate starter and 15 PPG player, this team would take off. In the absence of development like this, sputtering is likely.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
The one constant that we can go by has been the trio of Cousins, Gay and Collison on the same team, despite all the changes. All that said, they have yet to put together a collective winning season together and that isn't necessarily all on them but they most definitely play a part. That said, the rest of them, yes...they do not bring it every night and with veterans you expect more, it's just that the Kings time and time again scrap the bottom of the barrel and get what they paid for, even if the price tag isn't worth the production. That's the market they play in, can't do much about it but continue to make attempts at stability and make increments in winning.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Teams are packing the paint against any unit with Cuz and a big and it's working. Collison goes invisible as well because there just aren't any lanes. The Kosta/Cuz lineup is almost worse for the teams spacing than it is for defending the 3 point line and pick and roll.
Rebounding can't be the primary concern right now either because in this case of chicken or the egg you have to get the defensive stop first. Getting bombed out by the middle of 1st quarter and coming back into the game with that dreaded Barnes at PF unit is the best they've got right now.
Basically, if we finished the year the way we're going (35-37 wins), then the only leverage we have is the ability to give him the Westbrook extension (3 years, 85 million, PO the 3rd year) so he can get to 10 NBA seasons and then get the mega-max contract with 10 years of NBA service. That's a ton of money for anyone to leave on the table and as a 6'11 270 pound big man, i'd consider playing my final year without an extension a pretty big risk when you got $(0 mil on the table because of heightened injury concerns.
Then the next issue is what team he's actually resigning with. Do we want 30 year old Rudy Gay back at 15mil+ (at least) a year? Pay 10-12 mil+ for Collison? Barnes?Omri? Lawson? Afflalo? The draft won't be much help either as we're either in the the top 10 again (meaning we suck and shouldn't bring any of the "core" back anyway) or we give the pick to Chicago and the 2019 pick is gone to Philly
I just don't see a route anymore where we can build an eventual title contender with Cousins. We blew it with him, but still have the ability to do this rebuild right and far more quickly if we trade him and the rest of the team away.
Never seen an episode; the premise isn't relevant to my interests.Are you serious? Why should Vlade be held accountable for anything ANY previous GM did? Pete was BAD at his job but that doesn't discredit his replacement. And what are you even referring to when you say the dismissal of Pete wasn't as bad as what should have happened to him? Are you suggesting there is something worse than losing your job for being incompetent because I don't know what that is....I assumed your idea of beheading was a joke. But maybe you have spent too much time watching Game of Thrones.
And when D'Alessandro first started to be questioned, Kings Fans said that he "had nothing to do with Petrie. He has nothing to do with his potential replacement." And before D'Alessandro, they said it about Petrie. And, before Petrie, they said it about Reynolds. And Russell before him. And Axelrod, before him.
It's hardly surprising that you would miss the point, though. I'm not saying that I am questioning Divac because of all the guys who had the job before him. I don't have to say that. I am questioning Divac because he has been questionable. The other guys are simply the reason why I don't feel compelled to give him any further benefit of the doubt.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll
