HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
another ZERO turnover game from Ray. 
[Game] Kings @ Blazers, 4/09/14 7 PM PST, 10 PM EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Pretty sure he's under contract so, barring trade, that will probably happen.
Pretty sure Evans was supposed to cover him, but he positioned himself in the key, probably to get the rebound. He should have stayed glued to Wright. It's Wright; that's all he's in for. I thought Lillard was pretty well contained up to that point.
The defense collapsed in because of Lillard. Evans didn't get back out to cover Wright in time.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
AND 8 assists
The Hammer
All-Star
McCallum: 8 assists, zero turnovers.
I think at this point we can rule out fluke, and say it's a definite pattern.
Freakin great one too.
I think at this point we can rule out fluke, and say it's a definite pattern.
Freakin great one too.
theclash4u5
Starter
I'll take a IT wannabe if we only have to pay him a 2nd round salary for the next few years, though.
The Hammer
All-Star
I'm convinced management had their eye on Evans since shortly after buying the team. He's a perfect addition.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm not suggesting we trade him.
However if I was a coach I'd be trying to tame him.
And if I was a teammate and he looked me off to force his own junk 1 on 2 when we had a 4 on 2 break, I'd pop him right on the nose.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
With the addition of size and Defense
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Hmmm, the thing is that if PG chucking is Malone's system (which may be the case seeing as how his last two stops have featured CP3 and Steph Curry as the be-all, end-all shot eaters), what does that say about IT's true value?
We're seeing Ray put up similar numbers, albeit not in quite an efficient manner and not quite as often. If other GMs notice the trend, it could drive IT's price back down into the tolerably affordable range.
We're seeing Ray put up similar numbers, albeit not in quite an efficient manner and not quite as often. If other GMs notice the trend, it could drive IT's price back down into the tolerably affordable range.
While the last play is probably not the best example, I tend to agree. He's a positive role player.
Chupacabra
Starter
This whole "everyone else gets to be the upcoming team" thing is pissing me off. All I want is to crush our enemies, have them thrown before us and hear the Lamentations of their women.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Patience, young grasshopper.
I feel like I've been saying that for the last five years or so...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The not quite as often is the key thing there. there may well be systemic inflation, but if one guy does it 4 of 5 nights, and the other only does it 2 of 5 nights, wellt eh 4 of 5 guy is vastly more valuable.
Still have no idea how to fix what's the matter with this team if we have Cuz/Rudy back, throw in 2 chucking PGs, seem determined to nursemaid Ben on through, are stuck with the stupid Landry deal etc. How the hell do you take big steps forward with so many chuckers around and so many sacred cows?.
In fewer starts as well.
I think he can be more of a floor general and less of a chucker, just because I have seen him get players into a set offense, but I wonder if the roster turnover has impacted what this team can structure offensively anyway.
The Hammer
All-Star
This is the key distinction for me. With the stellar ball protection, decent assist rate, this is what tips the scale in McCallum's direction if I'm picking a starter for next year.
What I'd like to see happen, is for us to sign to IT to a reasonable contract, and perhaps still find a way to trade him in a package for Rondo. If not, and he doesn't GLEEFULLY accept his role as 6th man (but rather puts on that insincere air of "accepting it for the best of the team"), we can probably get good value in a trade. just don't let him walk!
Bosnian Diehard
Starter
Shame we couldn't hold on for the W but we were a bucket away from beating a top five Western team in their own home. Not bad at all.
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
I don't understand the urgency in throwing McCallum into a starting role. We are now 2-7 with him as a starter, 2-5 when him, Rudy and Demarcus are all playing. He's averaging 14/7 on 37% shooting. He's going to be fine but there is no reason to shortcircuit his development. Even if you don't want Isaiah as the starter next year (which I do), you have to bring in a veteran next year to man the PG spot. Ray's proven himself to be a capable backup, but he's not ready to take on the reigns to an NBA team full time. Lets just have patience.
And despite the bellyaching of anyone who cries foul everytime the PG takes a shot, Ray is doing just fine. Exploit holes in the defense, don't be passive. The zero turnovers means he's making good decisions. That being said, I don't think he impacts the game as much as Isaiah does. If you look at his assists, besides the McLemore alley-oop, every single one of them was a pass to Cousins for a jumpshot. Every single one. Isaiah can get into the teeth of a defense and set up guys around the rim or at the three point arc in a way I don't know if McCallum can. Its why the offense usually dies when Ray's jumper isn't falling and you see epically bad performances like against OKC or Golden State. Maybe Ray will develop more confidence to be aggressive attacking the rim going forward, but its interesting to note.
And despite the bellyaching of anyone who cries foul everytime the PG takes a shot, Ray is doing just fine. Exploit holes in the defense, don't be passive. The zero turnovers means he's making good decisions. That being said, I don't think he impacts the game as much as Isaiah does. If you look at his assists, besides the McLemore alley-oop, every single one of them was a pass to Cousins for a jumpshot. Every single one. Isaiah can get into the teeth of a defense and set up guys around the rim or at the three point arc in a way I don't know if McCallum can. Its why the offense usually dies when Ray's jumper isn't falling and you see epically bad performances like against OKC or Golden State. Maybe Ray will develop more confidence to be aggressive attacking the rim going forward, but its interesting to note.
I have not seen this "setting up guys" that you speak of. In fact, I'd say that IT's assists are very similarly set up the way McCallum's are. If anything, I've seen more directing from McCallum to get Cousins in position (or rather, others out of the way) prior to giving him that assist. More often than not, I've seen IT direct others out of the way so that he can drive to the basket. Additionally, he takes much, much better care of the ball, and seems to make the right decisions more often than not. Then there's the defense. He plays it much better.
That said, I don't think he's the starter of the future...yet, but he's pretty good insurance right now against IT leaving. It may eventually be McCallum, depending on what happens this offseason, but he's at least proven a capable backup with the ability to spot start when necessary, which is what I would want from my #2 PG. If that's what we have in McCallum, a dependable #2 PG with the ability to not fall apart when starting, then sign me up. If he can become more, then that's even better.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Trade.... wait a second, were you being obvious?
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HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
No there is a very distinct difference in Isaiah's and McCallum's assists. I wish I had some kind of comprehensive "assist chart" but I don't, so I suggest hopping onto Synergy and looking up Isaiah's assists. Just as an example, in the last game he played against the Bucks, these were his assists:
1. Drives into the paint, sets up Reggie for a dunk
2. Feeds Ben coming off a curl who drives in for a floater
3. Pick-and-pop with Cousins
4. Runs a pick and roll with Thompson, then with Evans, gets into the paint and feeds JT in great post position for a 1 foot hook
5. Runs the "Horns" set with Cousins and JT, forces defense to suck into the paint, but instead of driving finds McLemore for a wide open corner three
6. Pick and roll with Cousins as the roll man. Feeds him with a pocket pass and Cousins drives to the rim for an And-1
7. Pick and roll with Rudy as the screener, gets into the paint and feeds Cousins near the rim for another And-1
8. Drive and kick to Rudy who pump fakes and drives in for a layup
Against the Spurs:
1. Finds McLemore off a curl
2. Runs Pick and Roll with Rudy as the screener, defense switches, Isaiah gets the ball to Rudy in good post position on the PG
3. Finds Outlaw coming off a screen for a three
4. Comes off a Cousins pick, drives into the paint sucking in the defense, kicks out for an open Cousins jumper
Just as a fair comparison, here are McCallum's 10 assists vs the Pelicans:
1. Hits McLemore coming off a curl for a three
2. Feeds DeMarcus in the mid-post who hits a turnaround fadeaway
3. Pass to Rudy from out-of bounds who drives in for a layup
4. Runs around a Cousins screen, gives it back to Cousins for a jumper
5. Again runs around a Cousins screen, gives it back to Cousins who pump fakes and drives in
6. Gets the ball off an offensive rebound and alley-oops it to McLemore against a scrambling defense
7. Post entry pass to Cousins who hits a hook
8. Fast break, makes a beautiful shovel pass to Outlaw after making his defender commit for an easy dunk
9. Gives it to Rudy who immediately nails a three in the defender's face
10. Post feed to Demarcus for that one ridiculous up and under play around Davis and Withey
Conclusion: McCallum is very meat-and-potatoes in his assists. He doesn't take unnecessary risks, but he rarely bends a defense either. Most of his assists are basic PG-type duties. Post feeds, run around a screen and give it back to Cousins, find McLemore coming off a curl, etc. To be fair, Isaiah gets plenty of assists like that too. But then he also has his creative forays to the rim. He sucks in the defense and kicks out to shooters. He attacks the pick and roll with pocket passes to bigs. He loves to dribble into the paint area, driving in little circles and then finding bigs around the basket at opportune moments. This leads to a higher turnover rate, but it also leads to far more pressure on an opposing defense. Thats why when Ray can't score the offense falls apart. Isaiah's just a flat out more dynamic player.
They're both shoot-first PGs, which is fine. I'd rather have McCallum if I had confidence in a consistent third option who was better than Isaiah. Otherwise, Isaiah makes the offense more dynamic and harder to guard.
Rockmeister
All-Star
I think you forgot the words FREE THROWS.
S
SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
Well, you have to be a bit selfish when you're the #2 scorer on the team considering IT and Gay are out and Ben Mac is still learning the game.
Can't just give Big Cuz 40 shots. Someone else has to take it and he almost shot 50% from the field with 4/4 from 3 point land. I don't mind it at all. The craziest thing is that he had 0 turnovers again. It's safe to say that we have two very good pg's that could turn out to be something great
S
SacKings2002NBAChampions
Guest
If you're going to have a championship team, you better have a star pg or an average to good pg who distributes the ball well without turning it over and can hit that open jumper from anywhere on the court but also knows how to penetrate and kick it out or lay it up. Also, one that's allowing cap space. Come contract renewal, Ray Mac will probably only ask for 6 million or so barring he doesn't keep improving tremendously. The problem with the King's golden generation is that you had too many prolific players who asked for high salary.
Drafting a Cauley-Stein would be another way of saving money rather than having a a Julius Randle who will cost you aplenty in a few years. Sure, that's a couple years down the line but by then you'll have Ray Mac, draft pick, Cousins and Ben Mac all with expiring contracts. Definitely don't want history to repeat itself and lose a Stojakovic, Divac, Webber and Christie moment.
Drafting a Cauley-Stein would be another way of saving money rather than having a a Julius Randle who will cost you aplenty in a few years. Sure, that's a couple years down the line but by then you'll have Ray Mac, draft pick, Cousins and Ben Mac all with expiring contracts. Definitely don't want history to repeat itself and lose a Stojakovic, Divac, Webber and Christie moment.
Overall, I think it's a fair analysis of the assists created; my only nit is the fact that you have IT vs. the Bucks and Ray vs. the Pelicans ( I don't think the comparison is that fair, as the Pacers just beat the Bucks with their entire second string). The Pelicans are a common opponent - could you have gone that route?
I agree that IT is a more dynamic scorer, but I think that Ray's understanding of how an offense should be run exceeds that of IT's, and that playing time / familiarity is currently gives IT the advantage. It depends on what you're looking for from that position. I'm looking for the guy who makes the safer pass and who plays solid defense. I just don't see that from IT. Going forward, I guess it depends on what the FO wants out of the PG position as well.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
I'm with you. I can't support my views with analytics. I don't keep track of all the plays. I can't even play basketball which leaves me at a HUGE disadvantage if I should ever have to make a point and defend it. I DO have a lot of experience watching basketball and have raised basketball playing kids so have watched it at all levels. This team needs no super stud future hall of fame pg and if it came across one, couldn't afford one anyway. It needs a steady hand at pg. It needs a predictable pg. It needs a pg who has team interests in mind. I know the latter sounds like a shot at IT and it is. We have seen some very skilled pgs recently. Tyreke was the best athlete but he required a coach who could use his assets and didn't try to force him into a position that didn't work for him. We have IT who has lofty offensive goals.
Now we have Ray who is a boring run of the mill pg. He can play defense and he has very few TOs. If you factor in all of this and his salary (we have him for three more years at about a million per year), Ray begins to look pretty good on this team. I don't know how he will evolve but I suspect he will be quite good and predictable. Leave the heroics to Cuz and Gay, please. Ray needs time and the FO shut IT down for the rest of the year which I think was very wise in trying to determine exactly what we have in Ray. I think we have someone good enough and hope the thread doesn't get closed for me saying it. If IT's best position is coming off the bench, we have to be able to discuss whether Ray can potentially be a starter.
HighFlyingMonkey
Starter
I tried to counterweight the Bucks game with the Spurs game but I guess that wasn't good enough
I'll try to get back to Synergy later tonight. I would agree with you if we had a third option on our team who was better than Isaiah, but we don't. Which is why the team has been much worse without Isaiah, unless Ray is on one of his good scoring days.
I tried to counterweight the Bucks game with the Spurs game but I guess that wasn't good enough
I would agree with you if we had a third option on our team who was better than Isaiah, but we don't. Which is why the team has been much worse without Isaiah, unless Ray is on one of his good scoring days.
Is the Synergy sub worth it? Been going back and forth whether or not to get one, and always just usually rely on a buddy of mine for the info
Only if I'm gettin' paid to scout players, team strengths, team weaknesses, etc.
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