Kings and free agency - part 4

VF21 said:
I'm not trying to push your buttons or anything, but are these posted elsewhere on line? I only ask in the interest of accuracy since there have been many times before when figures were posted without sourcing (not by you) that turned out to be totally incorrect. Some websites are notorious for just making guesses about actual contract amounts. ;)
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Basketball insiders is a website (not sure if you thought I mean actual people when I said basketball insiders or not). Here is the link http://www.basketballinsiders.com/

They've been the most accurate site that I have come across. Them and Spotrac.
 
Geoff said:
Anyone saw that asinine article by Kevin Draper on deadspin.com?
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Maybe a link would be helpful:

http://deadspin.com/lets-talk-about-the-sacramento-kings-1720255168

Can't say I agree with everything he said, but it's hardly asinine. Perhaps it's a bit too credulous of various rumors, but the idea that since Ranadivé took over that we've been playing hot potato with front office personnel is spot on. The idea that the defining feature of our franchise (since we were rescued from a Cascadian fate) is infighting is spot on. Thinking that Vlade wanting to avoid analytics altogether (if this is indeed true) is a bad idea is spot on. Given that he's chasing after Peja and Bobby, it's pretty clear that Vlade is trying to get the band back together, but seeing as none of them have significant front office experience, this is obviously a potentially dangerous move.

I'll take exception to some stuff. I'm more optimistic than he is about our upcoming season. I think that what we did with the cap space we got out of the Philly trade will most likely prove it to be a good move on our part. I think we have not one but at least three (add Gay and Rondo) players good enough to start on a contender. And I'll stand behind Vlade as our guy unless he proves he doesn't deserve my support. But is the article asinine? Not on the whole...and, well, that's pretty much how it looks to the rest of the league. We're going to have to win our way out of this - there's really no other way to get respect back at this point.
 
Vivek Ranadive has been a fantastic owner in a few ways - all of them off the court. He was instrumental in keeping the Kings in Sacramento, the arena is going to be amazing and he's generally handled the business side really well from what I can gather/have heard.

But the team itself has been an absolute tire fire. I don't think I could argue his tenure running the team has been any better than the last few years of the Maloofs. In fact I honestly believe it's been worse.

The Kings have been a complete disaster, mostly due to self inflicted wounds. The national media isn't painting this franchise as a joke because they have an axe to grind or because of small market bias any other stretch of a theory. It's because the Kings earned it, plain and simple.

Now we can argue about writers getting certain details wrong or lay the blame for horrible decisions on people no longer with the team (whether true or not) but it doesn't change the fact that the Kings have won few games, made terrible basketball decisions, had incredible instability and perhaps worst of all have had a long string of very embarrassing incidents (4 on 5, Stauskas?, Boogie & Karl etc) all made public.

Winning cures all. And it's the only thing that will start changing public perception of this basketball team.
 
I wonder if we had just drop kicked Oliver's ass to the curb at the same time we threw PDA out of the club if we'd still have to endure all this whining. Potentially letting a guy save his job or prove he can function as a non-toadie apparently actually costs you rep points in the social media world.

But really at this point the truth is there is not a single thing the Kings can do that won't be spun as evidence of their incompetence. That is the power of narrative.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
Maybe a link would be helpful:

http://deadspin.com/lets-talk-about-the-sacramento-kings-1720255168

Can't say I agree with everything he said, but it's hardly asinine. Perhaps it's a bit too credulous of various rumors, but the idea that since Ranadivé took over that we've been playing hot potato with front office personnel is spot on. The idea that the defining feature of our franchise (since we were rescued from a Cascadian fate) is infighting is spot on. Thinking that Vlade wanting to avoid analytics altogether (if this is indeed true) is a bad idea is spot on. Given that he's chasing after Peja and Bobby, it's pretty clear that Vlade is trying to get the band back together, but seeing as none of them have significant front office experience, this is obviously a potentially dangerous move.
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Bobby spent a year in the front office before becoming an assistant coach both here and then a year under Rick Adelman in Minnesota. Not sure if it qualifies as significant but Bobby's not coming in wet behind the ears. I'm not quite sure what Peja's been up to since hanging it up though.
 
Bricklayer said:
I wonder if we had just drop kicked Oliver's ass to the curb at the same time we threw PDA out of the club if we'd still have to endure all this whining. Potentially letting a guy save his job or prove he can function as a non-toadie apparently actually costs you rep points in the social media world.

But really at this point the truth is there is not a single thing the Kings can do that won't be spun as evidence of their incompetence. That is the power of narrative.
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And so easy to change. Win.
 
The Hammer said:
And so easy to change. Win.
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Unfortunately unless they win 50-55 and make the playoffs and win a series, the narrative won't change. And even then, it'd have to be repeated many times.

Come close and miss the playoffs? That's the current expectation and will fit the narrative.

I can hear it already "they mortgaged the future to almost make the playoffs?"

Or even if they do make it "they mortgaged their future for the 8 seed?"

If they win a series, the second they lose it'll become "well, that was fun, but they'll never keep Rondo."

It'll take years of stability to fix the damage. And frankly, this team doesn't seem to be able to go even a month without more FO movement. Very easy to mock bringing in former Kings players while simultaneously firing Oliver.

Here I'll do it.

Peja, the first NBA executive hired because he failed a math test.

See, it's easy.
 
Media, smedia. What concerns me is what do I think about the Kings' progress and, to a lesser extent, what folks on here think. I think we're doing pretty well putting a team together and putting a new front office together. Now all we need to do is make a team out of our bunch, stay healthy and win.
 
Chubbs said:
Unfortunately unless they win 50-55 and make the playoffs and win a series, the narrative won't change. And even then, it'd have to be repeated many times.

Come close and miss the playoffs? That's the current expectation and will fit the narrative.

I can hear it already "they mortgaged the future to almost make the playoffs?"

Or even if they do make it "they mortgaged their future for the 8 seed?"

If they win a series, the second they lose it'll become "well, that was fun, but they'll never keep Rondo."

It'll take years of stability to fix the damage. And frankly, this team doesn't seem to be able to go even a month without more FO movement. Very easy to mock bringing in former Kings players while simultaneously firing Oliver.

Here I'll do it.

Peja, the first NBA executive hired because he failed a math test.

See, it's easy.
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We can get in as an 8th seed and lose 4-1 in the first round and the majority of our fan base will be ecstatic.
 
To win a series in the playoffs the Kings would have to knock off the Warriors or Spurs. Come on man.

How cynical does our fan base have to be? 50 wins, 8 seed, and win a playoff game = lofty goal for a 29 win team. Get it done and I will indeed be ecstatic go ahead and laugh at me I don't care. I'll be watching a team that wins more than it loses, that is on the way up... and that probably starts to draw a higher class of free agents for 2016. Whats wrong with that?

What's the alternative that the cynics would prefer? That we stay all in on Stauskas and develop him, that we draft Mudiay and eschew Rondo, that we take another flyer in the lottery and pick perfectly, and spend two more years at the bottom of the West building a youth movement???? Oh, that plan.
 
Damn right I'll be ecstatic if Arco/Sleep Train gets to host even one more playoff game before the Kings move out for good. It's been 10 years since we hosted a playoff game. And it's not like we sold out for one year of playoff futility or anything either. Our best player is 24. Our entire starting lineup is under 30. Making the playoffs, even if it's as the 8th seed, is a big step forward that we need to take before we can start thinking bigger. Just get there this year however you can do it. Then you go into the off-season as a playoff team in the West (no easy task!) with money to spend and a whole other class of free agents available to you. If you represent a ticket to the playoffs and a shot at playing for a title, you're in the conversation now for free agents who wouldn't even consider us this year. Winning brings it's own credibility. Making the playoffs with a losing record in the East might not count for much, but if you make the playoffs in the West, you've accomplished something.

Case in point: Golden State advancing from 23 win punchline to playoff darlings in 2013 is what allowed them to sign Andre Igoudala. Then they lost in the first round last year and won it all this year. Who saw that coming? Before the season started most people thought they were a good, but flawed, team who probably wouldn't make it out of the West. Maybe they did get a little lucky with injuries and matchups in the playoffs this year, but they first had to put themselves into position to take advantage.
 
That was a (poor) attempt at satire of the media, not cynicism.

There's one thing no one can take from kings fans no matter what, and that's extreme defensiveness. :)

For the record, I like what we are doing right now. It's unfortunately borne of extreme desperation (like the Karl hire, which could still blow up and ruin everything), but, that's where we are at. But even with purple colored glasses, we have to understand hiring Vlade, then Peja, then talking to Bobby, then whatever other former player will answer calls, it looks insane. I'm not saying it is, but it looks like we just have no plan whatsoever and former players are jumping on board for an easy payday from our clueless owner. Understanding it didn't work exactly like this, but it looks like we dropped a PHD in statistics in Oliver for Peja Stojakovic, who didn't go to college, and whose only experience involves sitting next to Vlade.

It's a horrible look to anyone looking at this remotely objectively.
 
Chubbs said:
That was a (poor) attempt at satire of the media, not cynicism.

There's one thing no one can take from kings fans no matter what, and that's extreme defensiveness. :)

For the record, I like what we are doing right now. It's unfortunately borne of extreme desperation (like the Karl hire, which could still blow up and ruin everything), but, that's where we are at. But even with purple colored glasses, we have to understand hiring Vlade, then Peja, then talking to Bobby, then whatever other former player will answer calls, it looks insane. I'm not saying it is, but it looks like we just have no plan whatsoever and former players are jumping on board for an easy payday from our clueless owner. Understanding it didn't work exactly like this, but it looks like we dropped a PHD in statistics in Oliver for Peja Stojakovic, who didn't go to college, and whose only experience involves sitting next to Vlade.

It's a horrible look to anyone looking at this remotely objectively.
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That's one point of view which I don't agree with. Maybe Oliver went behind the back, was untrustworthy, was not useful, was biased, did not live up to his PHD, whatever, there can always be a million reasons and we won't ever know them even with leaks. Trust Vlade, don't over analyze.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
I wonder if the system on the Reno team will change at all, since it sounded like that was Dean Oliver's experimental project
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Just a guess, but with Vlade at the helm, I suspect some changes will happen. Since they retained the coach from last season, it may take some time. But who knows. Maybe Vlade is content to let Vivek have his grand experiment on a small scale. At least for now. The current system will at least weed out players incapable of getting up and down the court. Not sure how Sim survived last season.
 
Chubbs said:
That was a (poor) attempt at satire of the media, not cynicism.

There's one thing no one can take from kings fans no matter what, and that's extreme defensiveness. :)

For the record, I like what we are doing right now. It's unfortunately borne of extreme desperation (like the Karl hire, which could still blow up and ruin everything), but, that's where we are at. But even with purple colored glasses, we have to understand hiring Vlade, then Peja, then talking to Bobby, then whatever other former player will answer calls, it looks insane. I'm not saying it is, but it looks like we just have no plan whatsoever and former players are jumping on board for an easy payday from our clueless owner. Understanding it didn't work exactly like this, but it looks like we dropped a PHD in statistics in Oliver for Peja Stojakovic, who didn't go to college, and whose only experience involves sitting next to Vlade.

It's a horrible look to anyone looking at this remotely objectively.
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When Woj was spewing all kinds of inaccurate garbage I can see how that looked bad from the outside to anyone who wasn't invested enough in the day-to-day goings on of the Kings to separate fact from fiction. I wasn't worried about it though because getting Chris Mullin and PDA out of our front office was worth whatever venom he wants to spew at us for the next 10 years and more. Just look at our roster right now and imagine where it would be if Vivek hadn't cleaned house when he did. But this? I don't see how this swings the needle one way or the other unless you've already bought the "incompetent" story and anything at all will be applied as justification for your point of view. Objectively speaking, teams hire former players in front office jobs all the time. I don't know what job we offered Bobby Jackson, but he has assistant coaching experience already. And I don't know what qualifications are required to be a personnel director, but considering we employed Jerry Reynolds in that job for years (nice enough guy, but his basketball knowledge has always seemed suspect to me) I don't see how it could be that stringent.

Dean Oliver was another PDA hire. Considering the firestorm Vlade stepped into in his first two months on the job, I'm not surprised he wants to clean house of everyone that reported to our former GM. Vivek said he wanted loyal people in the front office. Vlade hiring his own staff is a good way to ensure that everyone is on the same page. The only real precarious element here is George Karl dangling uncomfortably between the two different regimes. Time will tell how that plays out, but the job Vlade has done so far in building the roster speaks for itself. That report about Vlade being unprepared for the job was clearly not accurate. I do still think we would have been better off waiting until the end of the season to hire a new coach. Thibodeau and Brooks at least warranted an interview and we wouldn't have all this uncertainty now about whether our head coach and franchise player can get along over the course of a season. But that wasn't Vlade's fault. I think you'd have to try pretty hard to find much to be angry with Vlade about so far and poking fun at his "getting the gang back together" is an ignorant point of view that ignores all of the former players who have won executive of the year awards and plenty more who deserved them.

Personally, I'd take it even further. I want Grant Napier gone too. And I'd make Doug Christie the full-time color commentator. But those are just a couple of my own preferences. The point is, the right decision might look crazy at first, but if it is the right decision people will come around to it when they realize it's working. That's what the goal is -- not appearing to be smart but actually making smart decisions. If you do that, appearances will take care of themselves in time.
 
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Chubbs said:
And that's precisely why this fan base is mocked.
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That's not why we're mocked at all. I can think of a dozen reasons why we're mocked before that.

We haven't made the playoffs in a decade. Our town doesn't have much to offer millionaires. Free agents don't want to come here an our management has been awful. To ask for anything else than just a sniff at the playoffs this year would be ridiculous.
 
So much for Andre Miller as an emergency option - he's apparently just signed with the Timberwolves. Really solid signing for Minnesota in my opinion.
 
Chubbs said:
Andre Miller wanting to play.
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Your sentence was too long, I corrected it for you.

Miller's M.O. his entire career has been a guy who either is getting big minutes or is unhappy to the point of being a lockerroom problem. If they push LaVine off to SG, and with Rubio's penchant for 30 game seasons, Dre might feel he's got as much chance in Minny as anyplace to get significant burn, and for him that's always been the guiding light.
 
I think it is apparent vlade didn't want miller back.

This looks like miller waiting for kings and once we signed curry, miller quickly moved to his next option.

Considering that our starting pg can't shoot, rondo, curry would help diversify the point guard corp. miller can't spread the floor for dmc.
 
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