Kings after Ingram
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They did draft Yves Missi as a defensive specialist to pair with Zion. The step back I'm imagining would be if they trade Ingram and/or McCollum in addition to already losing Valanciunas. If it wasn't clear by that comment, I do like the direction they're building toward. Zion can carry a team's offense as long as he can stay on the floor so surrounding him with defenders is a smart way to go.
haven't been a fan of Ingram since his days in LA and I don't think he really improved as much as you would hope from a high lottery pick with length and skillset. to me, you can't teach desire and hunger, when I watch his whole body language and demeanor on the court, it just doesn't do it for me. On top of that, he isn't a strong defender and he's looking for a max extension looming next summer. I don't think the Kings can afford to keep sending multiple picks away for this type of player, maybe it seems like nitpicking but if its one thing we all learned in all these years of incompetence and irrelevancy, it's botched lottery pick year in and year out instead of them being turned into potential assets in the present and future. Now, if you can get Ingram for a season and see how he plays into this teams future scenario, without involving multiple picks and Keegan and no extension, perhaps it may be worth a look to see if there is anything there worth salvaging before committing long term.
Both ends combined he might not be far off but as an offensive talent Lauri has him beat at this point. The real question is how much better is Markkanen than a Grant or Ingram and considering the package it would likely take to get him compared to those two? It's funny, the extreme opinions on Lauri as a talent are crazy. If Monte could add Markkanen to what he's building, great, but I must have missed the part where he became some kind of superstar.
I was trying to think of ways that we could trade for Markkanen without giving up Murray, Ellis, and Carter as I think it would be extra important to keep those 3 players from a defensive standpoint since Markkanen is just average defensively. I’m wondering if this offer would be enticing enough for Ainge…
Kevin Huerter
‘26 or ‘27 Swap (1 year after 1st to ATL)
‘27 or ‘28 1st (2 years after 1st to ATL)
‘28 or ‘29 Swap (3 years after 1st to ATL)
‘29 or ‘30 1st (4 years after 1st to ATL)
‘30 or ‘31 Swap (5 years after 1st to ATL)
‘31 1st or ‘31 2nd (6 years after 1st to ATL)
For
Lauri Markkanen
Considering our pick owed to ATL this year is only top 12 protected (which means we’d have to lose in the #9/#10 play-in game or finish worse to keep the pick this year) and considering we would have added Markkanen & Carter while only losing Huerter, Mitchell, & Vezenkov, I think it’s very safe to say that pick will convey to ATL in 2025 which means Ainge very likely gets 3 1sts and 3 swaps for Markkanen…
That trade would leave us with a roster of…
PG - Fox / Monk
SG - Ellis / Carter / Jones
SF - Murray / Barnes / Duarte
PF - Markkanen / Lyles / McDaniels
C - Sabonis / Len
…that team all of a sudden has…
Kevin Huerter
‘26 or ‘27 Swap (1 year after 1st to ATL)
‘27 or ‘28 1st (2 years after 1st to ATL)
‘28 or ‘29 Swap (3 years after 1st to ATL)
‘29 or ‘30 1st (4 years after 1st to ATL)
‘30 or ‘31 Swap (5 years after 1st to ATL)
‘31 1st or ‘31 2nd (6 years after 1st to ATL)
For
Lauri Markkanen
Considering our pick owed to ATL this year is only top 12 protected (which means we’d have to lose in the #9/#10 play-in game or finish worse to keep the pick this year) and considering we would have added Markkanen & Carter while only losing Huerter, Mitchell, & Vezenkov, I think it’s very safe to say that pick will convey to ATL in 2025 which means Ainge very likely gets 3 1sts and 3 swaps for Markkanen…
- ‘26 Swap
- Ainge has swaps setup with MIN and CLE already so he’d receive the best pick across UTA, MIN, CLE, & SAC
- ‘27 1st
- ‘28 Swap
- Ainge has a swap setup with CLE already so he’d receive the best pick across UTA, CLE, & SAC
- ‘29 1st
- ‘30 Swap
- Ainge only owns his UTA pick this year so he’d receive the best pick across UTA & SAC
- ‘31 1st
That trade would leave us with a roster of…
PG - Fox / Monk
SG - Ellis / Carter / Jones
SF - Murray / Barnes / Duarte
PF - Markkanen / Lyles / McDaniels
C - Sabonis / Len
…that team all of a sudden has…
- A very solid star trio in Fox, Markkanen, & Sabonis
- A handful of young, upside players to still develop in Murray, Carter, & Ellis (which is important with those picks being sent out)
- 3 great to elite versatile defenders in Ellis, Carter, and Murray (4 when Fox ramps up his effort in certain situations)
- Excellent rebounding with the league leading rebounder (Sabonis) and Markkanen who is a very good rebounder at PF (9 REB per 36 min)
- Great size surrounding Sabonis to help make up for his lack of length.
- 2-3 good to great scoring options off the bench in Monk, Carter, and Barnes.
OKC wasn’t one of the teams I mentioned. They clearly are only going to be better with the roster improvements they made, plus an extra season of experience. They will be scary and wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they were first in the west. Memphis has a rookie center that can’t move laterally and they still have to answer some questions after all that Ja put them through, not to mention his season ending shoulder surgery. No guarantees there. Denver adding a potential stud in the draft is no guarantee of anything. He’s still a rookie and expecting a rookie to provide KCP level of play is probably a mistake. KCP is certainly not a write off type of player as you claim him to be, even if he is in his 30s. He was probably their best or second best defender. That’s a big blow to a team that’s not known for defense. They clearly know it too.
Pelicans lost their big man and have made other roster changes that takes them out of the running to be a big threat in the West. Warriors are only getting older, they might be in play for the lower tier playoff spots or the play-in but a big threat they are no longer. They are old with ill matching parts and underachieving role players (Wiggins) that no one wants. Hard to judge Utah at the moment as they are looking to deal, but they always play hard and strong even if their record isn’t always reflective. TBD on Utah at the moment. Suns are of course still top heavy with talent but they lost Gordon who was a key player for them off the bench which is a weak point for them. Wolves will obviously still be a great team as well. Dallas will be in play for a top 4 spot next year probably, but they did lose some depth.
On paper, Kings have the talent, as currently constructed, to be somewhere in that top 5-6 position. Certainly not good enough to be first or even second, but after that the waters get a little murky. It’s possible. Should we make some more roster improvements, a top 3 finish is certainly reasonable if we play the way we are capable and stop losing to bottom feeders all the time.
Pelicans lost their big man and have made other roster changes that takes them out of the running to be a big threat in the West. Warriors are only getting older, they might be in play for the lower tier playoff spots or the play-in but a big threat they are no longer. They are old with ill matching parts and underachieving role players (Wiggins) that no one wants. Hard to judge Utah at the moment as they are looking to deal, but they always play hard and strong even if their record isn’t always reflective. TBD on Utah at the moment. Suns are of course still top heavy with talent but they lost Gordon who was a key player for them off the bench which is a weak point for them. Wolves will obviously still be a great team as well. Dallas will be in play for a top 4 spot next year probably, but they did lose some depth.
On paper, Kings have the talent, as currently constructed, to be somewhere in that top 5-6 position. Certainly not good enough to be first or even second, but after that the waters get a little murky. It’s possible. Should we make some more roster improvements, a top 3 finish is certainly reasonable if we play the way we are capable and stop losing to bottom feeders all the time.
No.
If you can trade FRPs and Huerter, then do it. Including Murray would be a massive mistake IMO. I'm also not interested in Walker Kessler. He'd be a minor upgrade at backup center (for 10 minutes a night) but the Kings would also have to make a decision on how much to re-sign him for or lose him for nothing.
If you can trade FRPs and Huerter, then do it. Including Murray would be a massive mistake IMO. I'm also not interested in Walker Kessler. He'd be a minor upgrade at backup center (for 10 minutes a night) but the Kings would also have to make a decision on how much to re-sign him for or lose him for nothing.
Just think trading Keegan is a mistake. Even if you got Lauri to agree to an extension (not guaranteed), we've seen such significant growth from him over the last 2 years, on both ends, that you have to wait and see if he can make that star leap in the next few seasons. Can't underrate the value of 6 more years of guaranteed team control either, especially in this new market.
I think we all want to be a top 6 seed so that we don't get eliminated in the play-in again so that makes OKC relevant enough to warrant a mention. They finished 1st and likely got better so that's one top 6 spot locked up. Of the remaining 5 spots, there is still going to be a lot of competition. It feels like 50 wins is the minimum to secure a top 6 seed.
Mainly I want to challenge the idea that the West is getting easier because of what has happened in the last week. I think it's the opposite. A lot of the best teams in our conference have made moves which bode well for their long-term prospects. It looked like Minnesota didn't have flexibility to do anything but they added the guy who I had ranked as the second best player in the draft. That's scary. The Suns are going to be paying huge luxury tax penalties but they added a decent supporting cast around their core stars -- depth might not be a problem for them after all. And for everyone else, I think the willingness teams have shown to jettison expensive veterans and replace them with first round talent and valuable role-players means these front offices aren't just going to ride out their current rosters to the bitter end. These teams are well managed and they aren't going to beat themselves.
Mainly I want to challenge the idea that the West is getting easier because of what has happened in the last week. I think it's the opposite. A lot of the best teams in our conference have made moves which bode well for their long-term prospects. It looked like Minnesota didn't have flexibility to do anything but they added the guy who I had ranked as the second best player in the draft. That's scary. The Suns are going to be paying huge luxury tax penalties but they added a decent supporting cast around their core stars -- depth might not be a problem for them after all. And for everyone else, I think the willingness teams have shown to jettison expensive veterans and replace them with first round talent and valuable role-players means these front offices aren't just going to ride out their current rosters to the bitter end. These teams are well managed and they aren't going to beat themselves.
Yeah, I think that's why we REALLY need to find a way to repurpose HB and Huerter, or at least one of them. I think we'll be better next season with a full season of Keon and Carter, but you just can't stall out and be satisfied with those being the only upgrades. Quite a few teams have managed to maneuver and either retool or upgrade their rosters; that has to be us too.
If trading Keegan then 3 picks back our way plus whatever player.
This is stupid talk. The minute Keegan leaves it would be Haliburton all over again. Between Fox and Domas Keegan is the essential piece right now. He may ultimately wind up being 4th option on offense but unless we actually go pick up that defensive stud between Keegan and Domas many of us are screaming for instead of another scorer, he is still are biggest plus defender right now and lights out from 3.
This is stupid talk. The minute Keegan leaves it would be Haliburton all over again. Between Fox and Domas Keegan is the essential piece right now. He may ultimately wind up being 4th option on offense but unless we actually go pick up that defensive stud between Keegan and Domas many of us are screaming for instead of another scorer, he is still are biggest plus defender right now and lights out from 3.
Whether the West is "easier" next season or not, I just don't think you can rest on your laurels. I would have been fine if, after hiring Monte McNair, the Kings had decided to sell off all of their talent for young players, first rounders, and bad contracts that brought back more future picks. They could have gone full Presti. But they were in the middle of a decade-plus playoff drought, they had recently moved into a new arena, and the fans were still as disillusioned as ever. I don't fault the front office for trying to build around Fox. After it was abundantly clear that their mandate was to break the drought, I was a huge proponent of the trade for Sabonis and a huge fan of the Keegan pick. And the Carter pick this off-season was excellent value at 13. But... it's still not enough. If they want to be a perennial playoff team in the west for at least the next handful of seasons, they can't stall out, as you say. Asset depleted though they are, the Kings have to find ways to upgrade starting slots where they just aren't getting enough two-way production. That means repurposing HB and Huerter in some form or fashion.
And hopefully without giving up more than second rounders. Monte seems pretty good at getting UDFA talent at the buzzer but if he can't hit consistently with middle of the road picks those can be turned around better than just throwing a half dozen (including swaps) to another team and then being completely out of options.
Of course that turned out worse than expected with Davion. Who I liked.
Of course that turned out worse than expected with Davion. Who I liked.
Don't ever trade Keegan...he's too good. Now, if I see some weakness in his game or unable to improve in certain areas, certainly I don't mind trading him...but I don't see it. He's as good as Lauri or Ingram in my book. So, it doesn't make sense to trade value in exchange for equal value...that wouldn't improve the team. In fact, it could make the team worst off...especially KNOWING that Lauri is injured prone...what? 50 games per season throughout his career? That's horrible. That will destroy your team any chance of making the Playoffs.
??
Tyrese himself lacks the personality and aggressiveness to become whatever version of Tyrese exists in your head. He's an excellent player, but he doesn't have the temperament to become some kind of killer on the court. He's often very passive and can disappear from games when his team needs him to be a scorer. Sabonis, Murray, and Haliburton actually all kind of have that in common, honestly.
Tyrese himself lacks the personality and aggressiveness to become whatever version of Tyrese exists in your head. He's an excellent player, but he doesn't have the temperament to become some kind of killer on the court. He's often very passive and can disappear from games when his team needs him to be a scorer. Sabonis, Murray, and Haliburton actually all kind of have that in common, honestly.
We just simply don't have enough trade assets to get guys like Markkanen. Of course Ainge is going to ask for Murray. I mean would you guys trade Murrary for Huerter off a down year and a pair of protected FRPs? I certainly wouldn't so I understand why Ainge isn't looking to give Lauri away. He's a much better player than Keegan is right now. Gotta pay up if you want a 24ppg scorer who rebounds, shoots and isn't a total sieve on defense. His only downfall is he misses 25-40% of the games every year.
I like that Monte is looking to go big I really think we're currently in a situation where we should have been going after realistic rotation players like Jalen Smith, Marshall etc instead of a 3rd wheel to Fox and Sabonis. It's difficult to pull that off when you don't have the trade assets.
If HB was 2021 HB and Davion was looking like a starting PG held back by Fox, we'd have more trade value to deal with but that's not the current situation.
I like that Monte is looking to go big I really think we're currently in a situation where we should have been going after realistic rotation players like Jalen Smith, Marshall etc instead of a 3rd wheel to Fox and Sabonis. It's difficult to pull that off when you don't have the trade assets.
If HB was 2021 HB and Davion was looking like a starting PG held back by Fox, we'd have more trade value to deal with but that's not the current situation.
Another thing Markkanen solves for this team is being able to get to the line and convert at an incredible rate. Kings have no one like that and he plays with a fire that Murray hasn't shown (yet). He's someone that would match Sabonis intensity on each play, probably making his life alot easier in the paint with his length and rebounding.
The problem is we would lose our best defender in Murray and who would replace him? Could Monte sign someone to fill that defensive void? Okoros super interesting. I constantly found myself thinking Kings should get this guy when i watched him play last year. He's everywhere defensively.
The problem is we would lose our best defender in Murray and who would replace him? Could Monte sign someone to fill that defensive void? Okoros super interesting. I constantly found myself thinking Kings should get this guy when i watched him play last year. He's everywhere defensively.