Kings after Ingram

OptimusRhyme said:
Perhaps but most likely not. He's evolved as a player. Sorround him with an amazing supporting cast and great culture like this current Kings team has and it could also elevate him to the next level.
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As I stated it totally depends on usage most likely. Getting a Kuz, Grant, or maybe even Ingram if it means less goes out in a trade is the whole reason why the downside risk is much lower. I wouldn't be worried about anyone leaving, Markkanen, Ingram, whoever, they aren't turning down $$$. Just like OG didn't. The risk is cost. Why buy a player 15-25% better than other options at 200% the price?
 
ESP47 said:
I don't see Lauri losing all the skills he earned over the last couple years and reverting back to his skills from 3-4 years ago. He's a better scorer than Fox. If anything, you'd want Fox looking for Lauri half the time, not Lauri standing in the corner waiting for a kick out if nothing else is available.

Of course when you put three 20pt scorers together, someone's numbers are going to drop but I don't see Lauri just going back to being a regular old role player. He's proven to be a legit scorer in the league and not in the high usage, superficial way like a guy like Kuzma. His play actually seems to be impactful.
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What skills? I'm sure he's improved in some areas as a scorer because that's pretty much all he is.
 
The_Jamal said:
Hmm, possibly. Maybe I'm on an island here, but I honestly don't see a huge gap between Cam and that Kuzma/Grant/LaVine tier. I think Cam's one of those guys that can just really take off on a good team and be an elite starting role player. He already showed that his last year in PHX and continued his strong play with BKN.

And you're adding him to HB in the wing rotation, not fully replacing him. So you beef up the wing rotation, you have 4 guards, 3 wings and 3 bigs that we feel really good about as a strong rotation. That's quality roster balance.
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Maybe, but Cam has been on a team that went pretty far and has had a clear road on a team like the Nets. His per 36's are almost identical throughout. Solid player but picks depends on what they are and the Kings issue is they'd have to throw out one of those more valuable far off picks to do it since they can't trade a '25 pick. Better than throwing out a ton for a non true superstar though.
 
SacTownKid said:
What skills? I'm sure he's improved in some areas as a scorer because that's pretty much all he is.
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You can't just give the keys to any regular old 14-15ppg scorer and have them go out and put up 25ppg on higher efficiency without them evolving their skills. We saw Keegan attempt to do something like that this year and it didn't really work out for him. I don't know the detailed ins and outs of Lauri's game but I've watched enough basketball to know that the difference in scoring an extra 10ppg with the same or better efficiency isn't as simple as just jacking up more shots. If that was the case, every efficient 15ppg scorer would be a 25ppg scorer.
 
SacTownKid said:
What skills? I'm sure he's improved in some areas as a scorer because that's pretty much all he is.
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He's not only improved he took a massive USG bump and upped his efficiency while doing it. That's pretty much unheard of. The last 2 years, he's been one of the best shooters and scorers in the NBA. He's a quality rebounder for a 4, doesn't turn the ball over and shows some signs of passing ability. Not just a total blackhole.

For a dude who was fine with Beal/LaVine, I don't get why you're out on Markkanen. For the Keegan tag, sure, but this dude is significantly better than that LaVine/Beal/Grant tier. It's not even close.
 
ESP47 said:
You can't just give the keys to any regular old 14-15ppg scorer and have them go out and put up 25ppg on higher efficiency without them evolving their skills. We saw Keegan attempt to do something like that this year and it didn't really work out for him. I don't know the detailed ins and outs of Lauri's game but I've watched enough basketball to know that the difference in scoring an extra 10ppg with the same or better efficiency isn't as simple as just jacking up more shots. If that was the case, every efficient 15ppg scorer would be a 25ppg scorer.
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Like I said, he likely did improve as a scorer. This is all about selling the farm for him not just getting him. Ingram isn't far off from Markkanen in almost every area. PER is slightly lower the last two years, but prior to Ainge, Lauri was mid teens almost every year. Lauri is a better rebounder, but not a great one by any stretch, free throw rates between the two are similar, Ingram has a 27% assist percentage compared to Lauris 10% so you're getting better passing out of Ingram. If one can be had for Huerter/Barnes/picks, go for it. If not, too rich. Clear cap and make a run next summer. Or even wait until the deadline. See if Keon, Carter, or Murray make a jump and then sell super high. Those values can only go up, or should if used right.
 
The_Jamal said:
He's not only improved he took a massive USG bump and upped his efficiency while doing it. That's pretty much unheard of. The last 2 years, he's been one of the best shooters and scorers in the NBA. He's a quality rebounder for a 4, doesn't turn the ball over and shows some signs of passing ability. Not just a total blackhole.

For a dude who was fine with Beal/LaVine, I don't get why you're out on Markkanen. For the Keegan tag, sure, but this dude is significantly better than that LaVine/Beal/Grant tier. It's not even close.
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Because real life isn't a vacuum. Those two were/are FREE. They didn't require Keegan or a ton of draft capital. In fact, they required none.
 
SacTownKid said:
Like I said, he likely did improve as a scorer. This is all about selling the farm for him not just getting him. Ingram isn't far off from Markkanen in almost every area. PER is slightly lower the last two years, but prior to Ainge, Lauri was mid teens almost every year. Lauri is a better rebounder, but not a great one by any stretch, free throw rates between the two are similar, Ingram has a 27% assist percentage compared to Lauris 10% so you're getting better passing out of Ingram. If one can be had for Huerter/Barnes/picks, go for it. If not, too rich. Clear cap and make a run next summer. Or even wait until the deadline. See if Keon, Carter, or Murray make a jump and then sell super high. Those values can only go up, or should if used right.
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I'm wary of both due to injury history, but my only other pause on Markkanen is what it will cost to get him.

IMO, he's a WAY bigger upgrade to this Kings team than Ingram is. Much more efficient scorer who also scores in a way that plays to the Kings strengths, better rebounder, and a better defender.

Ingram is definitely a better secondary playmaker, but he's also at his best offensively operating in the midrange. Especially in today's NBA, and most definitely with Sabonis as your offensive hub I just don't see that working well. It's going to decrease spacing on offense.
 
sactowndog said:
Monte is a minnow among sharks and the other GM’s know it. He has now twice given away assets with picks without an executable plan and the other GM’s smell desperation.

how many years do we have to watch Monte give up draft assets for unused cap space to recognize he is yet another poor GM
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This is such a bad take. Monte and his staff have been on par with others when dumping contracts….no different. Of course, you keep the same agenda but Monte traded Haliburton for Domas. That is not a meek move. And on the contrary, other GMs probably view Monte as tough to trade with. Hasn’t traded Murray for any of the high salaried secondary stars. Has been sticking to his gameplan and hasn’t budged. Maybe your mythical front office acquaintance would have made moves.
 
The_Jamal said:
Hmm, possibly. Maybe I'm on an island here, but I honestly don't see a huge gap between Cam and that Kuzma/Grant/LaVine tier. I think Cam's one of those guys that can just really take off on a good team and be an elite starting role player. He already showed that his last year in PHX and continued his strong play with BKN.

And you're adding him to HB in the wing rotation, not fully replacing him. So you beef up the wing rotation, you have 4 guards, 3 wings and 3 bigs that we feel really good about as a strong rotation. That's quality roster balance.
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Cam’s ability to run dribble-hand-offs with Sabonis is being slept on. That skill could unlock the Kings’ offense.
 
ESP47 said:
You can't just give the keys to any regular old 14-15ppg scorer and have them go out and put up 25ppg on higher efficiency without them evolving their skills. We saw Keegan attempt to do something like that this year and it didn't really work out for him. I don't know the detailed ins and outs of Lauri's game but I've watched enough basketball to know that the difference in scoring an extra 10ppg with the same or better efficiency isn't as simple as just jacking up more shots. If that was the case, every efficient 15ppg scorer would be a 25ppg scorer.
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He also did this while being the main focus of every teams defense. Hes had Clarkson and Sexton beside him. No real point guard or playmakers to really set him up. Imagine his efficiency if he had Domas and Monk facilitating. And Fox taking some scoring pressure off of him.
 
SacTownKid said:
WERE close. haha. Not a terrible gamble though for MLE type money.
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That wasn't even a paraphrase. Spears named the Kings as a "dark horse" for DeRozan.

I don't think DeRozan is going to be getting MLE type money. DeRozan is going to be S&Ted with a value in the $30s. Like, he'd take Huerter/Barnes/picks and that would be our move.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
He also did this while being the main focus of every teams defense. Hes had Clarkson and Sexton beside him. No real point guard or playmakers to really set him up. Imagine his efficiency if he had Domas and Monk facilitating. And Fox taking some scoring pressure off of him.
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No doubt the Kings can use him. The question is the cost of having an efficient scorer like him. If you want an efficient scorer go see if LaVine is still free. It's a gamble but his efficiency was right on par with Lauri's prior to last season, both in the low 20's on average in a 2 season outlook.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
That wasn't even a paraphrase. Spears named the Kings as a "dark horse" for DeRozan.

I don't think DeRozan is going to be getting MLE type money. DeRozan is going to be S&Ted with a value in the $30s. Like, he'd take Huerter/Barnes/picks and that would be our move.
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Not sure I'm down with that either. Not at his age and impact.
 
BigVirg said:
For an expiring contract?! How's that?! Unless Lauri indicated he's ready to sign an extension that's a giant risk for any team trading for him..
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Well an expiring Siakam who was expecting a max 4 year deal at the age of 30 returned #19, #29, and a 2026 IND 1st (Top 4 protected).

I think when you consider the fact that…

  • Markkanen is a couple years younger
  • Markkanen is making considerably less as an expiring than Siakam was (don’t have to gut your team to trade for him)
  • Ainge seems totally fine keeping/resigning him
  • Markkanen’s skillset makes it easier to fit him on more teams (Siakam’s paint/midrange game isn’t as easy to mesh with other team’s cores)
  • Siakam was a half year rental; whereas, Markkanen would be a full year rental

…he’s going to go for more than what Siakam returned in a trade. We’ll have to see.
 
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SacTownKid said:
Like I said, he likely did improve as a scorer. This is all about selling the farm for him not just getting him. Ingram isn't far off from Markkanen in almost every area. PER is slightly lower the last two years, but prior to Ainge, Lauri was mid teens almost every year. Lauri is a better rebounder, but not a great one by any stretch, free throw rates between the two are similar, Ingram has a 27% assist percentage compared to Lauris 10% so you're getting better passing out of Ingram. If one can be had for Huerter/Barnes/picks, go for it. If not, too rich. Clear cap and make a run next summer. Or even wait until the deadline. See if Keon, Carter, or Murray make a jump and then sell super high. Those values can only go up, or should if used right.
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I would prefer Lauri over Ingram mainly because of position. Lauri is a legit 4, Ingram is a 3/weak 4. Keegan is also a 3/weak 4 so Lauri just makes more sense next to him. Neither Lauri nor Ingram are great defensively but I think Lauri is just a better fit and doesn't require the pieces around him to somewhat play out of position like Ingram will require.

I do like Ingram's passing abilities for sure. It's always a good thing to have a bunch of players that can pass but on our team with Sabonis, Monk and Fox, I'm not sure if it's quite as important to us as it is to some others that don't have a triple double center.
 
Lauri also played the 3 alot more last year because the Jazz seemed to like Lauri, Collins, Kessler lineups for some reason. But yea he was capable of swinging to the 3 and bullying smaller players at times. I like his versatility to swing from 3-5 in the right situations. Hes got small ball center potential aswell. Hes the opposite of Domas offensively so that could really throw teams off when they start to pack the paint.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
Lauri also played the 3 alot more last year because the Jazz seemed to like Lauri, Collins, Kessler lineups for some reason. But yea he was capable of swinging to the 3 and bullying smaller players at times. I like his versatility to swing from 3-5 in the right situations. Hes got small ball center potential aswell. Hes the opposite of Domas offensively so that could really throw teams off when they start to pack the paint.
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Yeah, people probably haven't caught a ton of Jazz games the last couple years, but Lauri basically plays like 7'0 Steph Curry. He's an unreal 3-level scorer. There are very few guys I think would be such a flawless offensive fit with Fox and Domas. Especially with Keegan, we'd be in contention for a top 3 offense, easily.

As long as I keep Keegan, I'll pretty much pay any price to get him. He's that good and just entering his prime.
 
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