Kings active in trade talks?

[sactownfan]

I'd have to say that it appears that the ONLY way we are gonna land another "STAR" or "GREAT" player is gonna be thru IT and Ben McL. Thomas paired with one or two of these guys ... JT, Thornton, Carl L and then Ben McL could make something happen. Without having a 1st RD pick ...Ben is the 1st RD pick....IT will be the talent/draw and one of those other guys are the filler.

all thats left is.... IT+Ben+other guy (JT,thornton,Carl)= ?????? Rondo? lol! i wish. doubtful ... but maybe? we can probably get somebody good tho.

 

[SacKings2002NBAChampions]

Or through draft? Lol

 

[ParniValjak]

Or through draft? Lol

Judging by our pick last year, so far it looks to be questionable too. This front office is yet to prove that they are capable of making great selections in the draft.

I know its early days but signs so far are not that encouraging. We haven't made a good first round pick since Cousins and yes I know this hierarchy has had one go at it but that looks average at best so far.

 

[fanop]

Judging by our pick last year, so far it looks to be questionable too. This front office is yet to prove that they are capable of making great selections in the draft.

I know its early days but signs so far are not that encouraging. We haven't made a good first round pick since Cousins and yes I know this hierarchy has had one go at it but that looks average at best so far.

Ben has potential. You know the guy Jared Sullinger? That guy who exploded on Cuz? He was a non factor for the Celtics last year in his rookie year and has been lighting up lately.

In last year's draft who do you think the kings should have taken instead? I really wanted CJ McCollum and Kentavious Caldwell Pope. CJ McCollum was out half the season and is looking decent. He's more of scoring guard than pg. KCP and Ben have had similar seasons. Both were once starters but now come off the bench. Both do no produce much for their teams. Plus, Ben has a much higher upside. The other 2 rookies that have been more productive than Ben are MCW and Burke. Neither have impressed me very much. MCW has a lot of free room because he has the keys to the team. They have no true #1 scorer, so as a rookie he just took over. I bet he would just be behind Jimmer in depth chart if he was drafted by the kings. He'd probably be in Reno.

I think Ben was the best choice available. 2013 draft sucked overall...

 

[t-rex]

I like the title of this thread. Especially since we are getting close to the trade deadline. I would just like to know......

Are we active in trade talks and who we are we thinking of trading and for whom? This thread continues to disappoint.

 

[ParniValjak]

Ben has potential. You know the guy Jared Sullinger? That guy who exploded on Cuz? He was a non factor for the Celtics last year in his rookie year and has been lighting up lately.

In last year's draft who do you think the kings should have taken instead? I really wanted CJ McCollum and Kentavious Caldwell Pope. CJ McCollum was out half the season and is looking decent. He's more of scoring guard than pg. KCP and Ben have had similar seasons. Both were once starters but now come off the bench. Both do no produce much for their teams. Plus, Ben has a much higher upside. The other 2 rookies that have been more productive than Ben are MCW and Burke. Neither have impressed me very much. MCW has a lot of free room because he has the keys to the team. They have no true #1 scorer, so as a rookie he just took over. I bet he would just be behind Jimmer in depth chart if he was drafted by the kings. He'd probably be in Reno.

I think Ben was the best choice available. 2013 draft sucked overall...

Errr......I think you might want to re-check the Sullinger claims. The guy was a rotation player on a play off team and consistently got 20 odd minutes per game backing up KJ and at times playing with him until he had a few injuries.

Sullinger was always considered to be a great value for money pick and was a productive rookie. Ben has looked lost. In fact it has been so sad we all get excited when he can dribble in a game without turning it over. The draft certainly sucked but there were a number of deals that could have been done on the draft day that would have gotten us a better talent than Ben. In fact, didn't we try to buy our money up the draft order just so we could select him and had no takers. There were also high fives all around in our war room when Ben was available at pick 7. Our front office was quoted that he would have been out #1 pick if we got the first pick in the draft. Not particularly a ringing endorsement of our talent evaluators.

 

[twslam07]

Ben has potential. You know the guy Jared Sullinger? That guy who exploded on Cuz? He was a non factor for the Celtics last year in his rookie year and has been lighting up lately.

In last year's draft who do you think the kings should have taken instead? I really wanted CJ McCollum and Kentavious Caldwell Pope. CJ McCollum was out half the season and is looking decent. He's more of scoring guard than pg. KCP and Ben have had similar seasons. Both were once starters but now come off the bench. Both do no produce much for their teams. Plus, Ben has a much higher upside. The other 2 rookies that have been more productive than Ben are MCW and Burke. Neither have impressed me very much. MCW has a lot of free room because he has the keys to the team. They have no true #1 scorer, so as a rookie he just took over. I bet he would just be behind Jimmer in depth chart if he was drafted by the kings. He'd probably be in Reno.

I think Ben was the best choice available. 2013 draft sucked overall...

You really think MCW would be in the D-League and behind Fredette in the depth chart? Wow I couldn't disagree more. I even think that Wroten would be in front of Fredette on our depth chart. Yeah MCW isn't scoring very efficiently, but he does a lot of other things very well.

 

[Hadlowe]

You really think MCW would be in the D-League and behind Fredette in the depth chart? Wow I couldn't disagree more. I even think that Wroten would be in front of Fredette on our depth chart. Yeah MCW isn't scoring very efficiently, but he does a lot of other things very well.

Defense, particularly. He still makes rookie mistakes, but you can see the wheels turning as he figures out how to disrupt pick and roll sets. Those long arms certainly cut off passing lanes well too.

Edit: Of course, as I write this he is getting absolutely cooked by Steph Curry just a day or two after doing a reasonable job of holding Chris Paul in check.

 

[VF21]

Errr......I think you might want to re-check the Sullinger claims. The guy was a rotation player on a play off team and consistently got 20 odd minutes per game backing up KJ and at times playing with him until he had a few injuries.

Sullinger was always considered to be a great value for money pick and was a productive rookie. Ben has looked lost. In fact it has been so sad we all get excited when he can dribble in a game without turning it over. The draft certainly sucked but there were a number of deals that could have been done on the draft day that would have gotten us a better talent than Ben. In fact, didn't we try to buy our money up the draft order just so we could select him and had no takers. There were also high fives all around in our war room when Ben was available at pick 7. Our front office was quoted that he would have been out #1 pick if we got the first pick in the draft. Not particularly a ringing endorsement of our talent evaluators.

Oh come on. Every single draft there are players who do much better than expected and those who, for whatever reason, totally fail to meet expectations. It's been said a bazillion times, but not every rookie goes lights out the first year. And some never even get a second contract. It doesn't necessarily mean the evaluation of their potential was wrong.

 

[fanop]

You really think MCW would be in the D-League and behind Fredette in the depth chart? Wow I couldn't disagree more. I even think that Wroten would be in front of Fredette on our depth chart. Yeah MCW isn't scoring very efficiently, but he does a lot of other things very well.

Yea I honestly think that. We had Vasquez, IT, and Jimmer. MCW would have been stuck behind IT/Jimmer. He would probably take Jimmers spot for a few games, but Jimmer only plays limited minutes. If MCW played 10minutes and he had 3tos, and was inconsistent, he would be benched and Jimmer would start. MCW would not have thrived with the kings. The only reason why he's been looking decent with the 76ers is because they just threw the keys at him and told him to drive. Imagine if we did that with Jimmer when we first drafted him... he would probably be taking 30 shots and make only 10 of them. What I'm saying is, MCW wouldn't have the opportunities he does now with the Sixers vs. the opportunities with the kings. They are essentially making him their franchise guy right now and MCW just like Jimmer would have such a short leash on this team..

 

[fanop]

Defense, particularly. He still makes rookie mistakes, but you can see the wheels turning as he figures out how to disrupt pick and roll sets. Those long arms certainly cut off passing lanes well too.

Edit: Of course, as I write this he is getting absolutely cooked by Steph Curry just a day or two after doing a reasonable job of holding Chris Paul in check.

Nice to see MCW fill up his stat sheet in the 4th quarter...

 

[ParniValjak]

Oh come on. Every single draft there are players who do much better than expected and those who, for whatever reason, totally fail to meet expectations. It's been said a bazillion times, but not every rookie goes lights out the first year. And some never even get a second contract. It doesn't necessarily mean the evaluation of their potential was wrong.

Huh?! That is precisely the point! Talent or potential alone is not enough. It is the evaluators job to take everything into account and make a call. Anyone can look at McLemore and see the raw potential but it is up to those that are making the call to dig in further and see how his skill set translates to the NBA. I very much doubt he forgot to dribble in traffic once he got drafted. I also very much doubt that he just forgot how to create his own shot when he got to the pros. Those are the skills that talent evaluators should be looking at and they should know which of these skills can improve significantly over time and which are the ones that tend to be developed by a certain age. There are skills that translate and those that don't and a professional talent evaluator should damn well know those off by heart. Its their job. Its why they get paid big money to make the call.

Then there is the mental make up of the player. Things that generally get sorted out by maturity and those that you are born with (are you a fighter or a quitter) etc... Those talent evaluators rarely make mistakes with pick, especially with picks inside top 10. I seem to recall there have been plenty of question marks and red flags with McLemore leading in to the draft. That is why his stocks has fallen from #2 prospect all the way down to #7.

The draft itself might not have been great but teams still managed to get productive players from it. We are hoping that we got one. So far into this season that is all we have, hope!

 

[VF21]

...

The draft itself might not have been great but teams still managed to get productive players from it. We are hoping that we got one. So far into this season that is all we have, hope!

And maybe, just maybe, that's what they were looking for. Remember, Vivek has said repeatedly it's not about wins and losses this year. We as fans tend to forget that, but I don't think they have. You could end up being right. I just hate to see people acting as though the NEW ownership and front office is mired in a history of poor selections. We just don't know that yet.

There are skills that translate and those that don't and a professional talent evaluator should damn well know those off by heart. Its their job. Its why they get paid big money to make the call.

BUT it's not a sure thing. If it were, there wouldn't ever be flops. The best NBA players would always be drafted in the proper order, etc. and there wouldn't be surprises drafted in the second round.

(Sorry for quoting out of order.)

 

[KingMilz]

You really think MCW would be in the D-League and behind Fredette in the depth chart? Wow I couldn't disagree more. I even think that Wroten would be in front of Fredette on our depth chart. Yeah MCW isn't scoring very efficiently, but he does a lot of other things very well.

Wroten would be the starting SG on this team by a landslide and probably the best defender/slasher on the team.

 

[twslam07]

Yea I honestly think that. We had Vasquez, IT, and Jimmer. MCW would have been stuck behind IT/Jimmer. He would probably take Jimmers spot for a few games, but Jimmer only plays limited minutes. If MCW played 10minutes and he had 3tos, and was inconsistent, he would be benched and Jimmer would start. MCW would not have thrived with the kings. The only reason why he's been looking decent with the 76ers is because they just threw the keys at him and told him to drive. Imagine if we did that with Jimmer when we first drafted him... he would probably be taking 30 shots and make only 10 of them. What I'm saying is, MCW wouldn't have the opportunities he does now with the Sixers vs. the opportunities with the kings. They are essentially making him their franchise guy right now and MCW just like Jimmer would have such a short leash on this team..

Again, I couldn't disagree more. I think you need to watch more of MCW before you make these claims. The notion that MCW is only playing well because the Sixers would give him more opportunities than the Kings is silly. He is a good young PG. He's got excellent size, length, and athleticism at the PG spot. He's a good defender, rebounder, and passer as well. Like I mentioned before, he isn't scoring at a very efficient rate, but that's really the only knock on him this season.

I honestly think he would be the starting PG on this team and we could revert Thomas back to his sixth man role. MCW would provide the defense and ball distribution in the first unit, and Thomas would provide the scoring punch in the second unit. Fredette would hardly see any floor time if MCW was on the team. Not the other way around.

I just can't wrap my head around the logic of the possible rookie of the year should be playing in the D-League.

 

[twslam07]

Wroten would be the starting SG on this team by a landslide and probably the best defender/slasher on the team.

I agree he would be the starting SG, but he is still a better PG than Fredette is. That's all I was trying to say. He's very much like Evans in that he is big, long, athletic, and very good at getting to the rim. He also struggles with his shot, but he's a good rebounder and passer for his position.

 

[Gary]

Ben has potential. You know the guy Jared Sullinger? That guy who exploded on Cuz? He was a non factor for the Celtics last year in his rookie year and has been lighting up lately.

In last year's draft who do you think the kings should have taken instead? I really wanted CJ McCollum and Kentavious Caldwell Pope. CJ McCollum was out half the season and is looking decent. He's more of scoring guard than pg. KCP and Ben have had similar seasons. Both were once starters but now come off the bench. Both do no produce much for their teams. Plus, Ben has a much higher upside. The other 2 rookies that have been more productive than Ben are MCW and Burke. Neither have impressed me very much. MCW has a lot of free room because he has the keys to the team. They have no true #1 scorer, so as a rookie he just took over. I bet he would just be behind Jimmer in depth chart if he was drafted by the kings. He'd probably be in Reno.

I think Ben was the best choice available. 2013 draft sucked overall...

Only someone that hasn't seen MCW play would say something like that. No chance in hell he would be a 12th man on this roster.

 

[Kingster]

I just don't see who they are going to trade:

Cousins - No
Gay - No
IT: They'd have to get somebody to replace him who is better, which is doubtful in a one-for-one trade. Even if they did a one-on-one trade, they still would desperately need a backup.
Thompson: Again, they have to get somebody better to replace what he gives, doubtful again in a one-for-one trade.
Jimmer - Nobody wants him
McCallum - Nobody wants him
Thornton - Nobody wants him for his $8 mill contract
Williams - meh; Probably nobody wants him
Gray - Nobody wants him
Outlaw - Nobody wants him
Landry - Somebody probably does want him, but he's rusty and not showcasing himself very well, implying probably a lower market value for him
Acy - somebody probably wants his defense, but that's what Kings need more of, so are they going to do a Luc for Williams trade with him? That's doubtful.
McLemore - can't trade the rook if you wanted because his value is so low now.

 

[funkykingston]

I just don't see who they are going to trade:

Cousins - No
Gay - No
IT: They'd have to get somebody to replace him who is better, which is doubtful in a one-for-one trade. Even if they did a one-on-one trade, they still would desperately need a backup.
Thompson: Again, they have to get somebody better to replace what he gives, doubtful again in a one-for-one trade.
Jimmer - Nobody wants him
McCallum - Nobody wants him
Thornton - Nobody wants him for his $8 mill contract
Williams - meh; Probably nobody wants him
Gray - Nobody wants him
Outlaw - Nobody wants him
Landry - Somebody probably does want him, but he's rusty and not showcasing himself very well, implying probably a lower market value for him
Acy - somebody probably wants his defense, but that's what Kings need more of, so are they going to do a Luc for Williams trade with him? That's doubtful.
McLemore - can't trade the rook if you wanted because his value is so low now.

IF the Kings make a deadline deal I can't imagine it would be a one for one trade anyway unless it's something like Jimmer's expiring deal for a bench roleplayer. A more realistic deal would be IT, Jimmer and either Thornton or Williams for a bigger salaried player.

And while for THIS season it would be pretty crushing to deal IT or Thompson without getting back a capable starter at that position, the reality is that the Kings are 17-34 and the focus should be on improving for the future. For instance if you could trade IT and Thompson (and maybe others) for a stud SG that fit perfectly with Cuz and Gay then you do it and limp along for the rest of the season with terrible PF and PG play.

 

[twslam07]

I just don't see who they are going to trade:

Cousins - No
Gay - No
IT: They'd have to get somebody to replace him who is better, which is doubtful in a one-for-one trade. Even if they did a one-on-one trade, they still would desperately need a backup.
Thompson: Again, they have to get somebody better to replace what he gives, doubtful again in a one-for-one trade.
Jimmer - Nobody wants him
McCallum - Nobody wants him
Thornton - Nobody wants him for his $8 mill contract
Williams - meh; Probably nobody wants him
Gray - Nobody wants him
Outlaw - Nobody wants him
Landry - Somebody probably does want him, but he's rusty and not showcasing himself very well, implying probably a lower market value for him
Acy - somebody probably wants his defense, but that's what Kings need more of, so are they going to do a Luc for Williams trade with him? That's doubtful.
McLemore - can't trade the rook if you wanted because his value is so low now.

Why does the replacement need to be better? He just needs to be a better fit. We can trade him to add value at other positions while getting a less talented, better fitting PG. The PG we get in return doesn't have to be our PG of the future. For example, we could trade for that less talented, better fitting PG this year and then draft Exum next year as our PG of the future.

Also, I'm not sure why you're only taking into account one-for-one trades. It's most likely that Thomas would be packaged with someone to bring back a player or two if the FO decides they want to move him.

Personally, I could see us doing a deal along the lines of Thornton and Williams for Ben Gordon. It frees up 13 mil more in cap space next year which gives us the flexibility of resigning Thomas (if he wants to come back for sixth man money) and adding a MLE contract to our team without going over the Luxury Tax Level. Or another deal could be Williams and Fredette for J. Hill and S. Blake. That would give us a decent backup PG while bringing in a big, defensive minded big man who we could potentially resign since his bird rights would carry over. Also, it would still give us flexibility to resign Thomas next year for sixth man money.

 

[Padrino]

I just don't see who they are going to trade:

Cousins - No
Gay - No
IT: They'd have to get somebody to replace him who is better, which is doubtful in a one-for-one trade. Even if they did a one-on-one trade, they still would desperately need a backup.
Thompson: Again, they have to get somebody better to replace what he gives, doubtful again in a one-for-one trade.
Jimmer - Nobody wants him
McCallum - Nobody wants him
Thornton - Nobody wants him for his $8 mill contract
Williams - meh; Probably nobody wants him
Gray - Nobody wants him
Outlaw - Nobody wants him
Landry - Somebody probably does want him, but he's rusty and not showcasing himself very well, implying probably a lower market value for him
Acy - somebody probably wants his defense, but that's what Kings need more of, so are they going to do a Luc for Williams trade with him? That's doubtful.
McLemore - can't trade the rook if you wanted because his value is so low now.

and there it is yet again, the great fallacy of the isaiah thomas debate. the kings do not need a player who is "better" to take thomas' place in the starting lineup. they need a player who fits more appropriately alongside demarcus cousins and rudy gay...

edit: twslam07 beat me to it by seconds.

Why does the replacement need to be better? He just needs to be a better fit. We can trade him to add value at other positions while getting a less talented, better fitting PG. The PG we get in return doesn't have to be our PG of the future. For example, we could trade for that less talented, better fitting PG this year and then draft Exum next year as our PG of the future.

 

[Gary]

IF the Kings make a deadline deal I can't imagine it would be a one for one trade anyway unless it's something like Jimmer's expiring deal for a bench roleplayer. A more realistic deal would be IT, Jimmer and either Thornton or Williams for a bigger salaried player.

And while for THIS season it would be pretty crushing to deal IT or Thompson without getting back a capable starter at that position, the reality is that the Kings are 17-34 and the focus should be on improving for the future. For instance if you could trade IT and Thompson (and maybe others) for a stud SG that fit perfectly with Cuz and Gay then you do it and limp along for the rest of the season with terrible PF and PG play.

There are serviceable PGs in the D-League as well. Look who the Lakers got out of the D-League. Looks like we have a guy in Reno named Brandon Heath. He is almost 30 years old but it looks like he can play PG, and can have 10 assist games. He would probably be fine for the rest of the year.

 

[twslam07]

For instance if you could trade IT and Thompson (and maybe others) for a stud SG that fit perfectly with Cuz and Gay then you do it and limp along for the rest of the season with terrible PF and PG play.

Agree...almost completely. Just because I don't think it makes much sense to trade for a stud SG with McLemore in the wings, but I agree with your premise that it makes sense to get that third guy if you can. If that is at the expense of having crappy play from two other positions on the floor, so be it. We're not making the playoffs this year. We can fill those holes next year when we have another shot at the playoffs.

 

[twslam07]

There are serviceable PGs in the D-League as well. Look who the Lakers got out of the D-League.

Yeah! If guys like MCW should be in the D-League, sign me up for some D-League PGs!

 

[funkykingston]

Agree...almost completely. Just because I don't think it makes much sense to trade for a stud SG with McLemore in the wings, but I agree with your premise that it makes sense to get that third guy if you can. If that is at the expense of having crappy play from two other positions on the floor, so be it. We're not making the playoffs this year. We can fill those holes next year when we have another shot at the playoffs.

Of course. And obviously it would make the most sense to deal for a rim protecting big or a defensive and/or pass-first PG but I was just using SG as an extreme example.

And yet if Orlando would take Jason Thompson and IT for Afflalo I'd strongly consider that deal.

But really the overall point is just that I'm perfectly fine with the FO hamstringing this Kings team for the rest of this season if the payoff is a better team next year.

 

[Gary]

Yeah! If guys like MCW should be in the D-League, sign me up for some D-League PGs!

Heck yah lol. Well there was a guy named Kendall Marshall in the D League. I think he would fit well with this team with his improved 3pt shot. Maybe the Lakers won't re-sign him.

 

[funkykingston]

Heck yah lol. Well there was a guy named Kendall Marshall in the D League. I think he would fit well with this team with his improved 3pt shot. Maybe the Lakers won't re-sign him.

Marshall is putting up numbers in a D'Antoni system that accentuates his skills and somewhat hides his shortcomings. He's basically Andre Miller lite. And by that I mean the Andre Miller of today.

 

[Gary]

Marshall is putting up numbers in a D'Antoni system that accentuates his skills and somewhat hides his shortcomings. He's basically Andre Miller lite. And by that I mean the Andre Miller of today.

I thought highly of Marshall when he was in college. I think he's going to take this opportunity and run with it. I can't see a 10apg guy year in and year out but I feel that Marshall is working his butt off because of the much improved 3pt%. Wonder who will pick him up.

 

[funkykingston]

I thought highly of Marshall when he was in college. I think he's going to take this opportunity and run with it. I can't see a 10apg guy year in and year out but I feel that Marshall is working his butt off because of the much improved 3pt%. Wonder who will pick him up.

To be clear I like Marshall too. I thought he'd fair better coming out of North Carolina but I knew he'd have limitations as an Andre Miller/Mark Jackson type PG, especially when matched up with today's ultra athletic PGs like Rose or Westbrook. That said, I'd definitely take him as a backup PG on the Kings depending on who the starter is. But I don't see him as a successful starter in the NBA. At least not without significant improvement to his game/body.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Jason Jones tweets that Kings are "still open to making a deal, especially for another PG, but only at the right price." He follows up that the "right price" means they're reluctant to trade picks or take on salary beyond 2014-15.