I haven’t been this high on a rookie in a while but let’s chill on the Klay comparison. We’re talking about a top 3 shooter of all time with elite defense, Murray projects to being a good defender but he ain’t gonna shoot and defend like prime klay
King Keegan
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
I haven’t been this high on a rookie in a while but let’s chill on the Klay comparison. We’re talking about a top 3 shooter of all time with elite defense, Murray projects to being a good defender but he ain’t gonna shoot and defend like prime klay
upinsmoke
All-Star
I hear what your saying but I'm also not putting a cap on Murray hes a prototypical late bloomer type and has the mental makeup to reach his absolute peak whatever that ends up being.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
No, less shot creation. Klay is not an iso player but he absolutely could get himself open with the ball in his hands. Not so much anymore.
And you're right, Klay was amazing. Arguably the second greatest shooter of all time. Keegan is highly unlikely to reach the level of prime Klay and that's fine. My comp was more in terms of play style.
I don't want to get stuck on the point. Murray is not a creator and is not going to be, to any significant level. We didn't draft him to be one, and his ceiling is not reliant on it. He projects as a big, elite shooter who can chip in defensively and be a glue guy.
I think it depends on what we mean in terms of a creator. I don't see Murray as a guy that will ever be great at catching the ball in iso situations on the perimeter and breaking down his man off the dribble. But incorporating some simple post ups to take advantage of mismatches? That I can see him starting to do on the NBA level as early as next season. Likewise, going from passing the ball when a defender closes out quickly to faking a shot or pass to side step into a jumper can be another growth area for Keegan.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Agreed. Both of these areas he can realistically add to his game.
When I think of a creator, I think of someone who can reliably create for himself and others, ie. a playmaker. Keegan can make plays, but he won't be a playmaker. I think we know what that means.
King Baller
All-Star
The Stats say Keegan is as good a three point shooter as Klay was as a Rookie. Except Keegan played more minutes than Klay as a Rookie and Keegan took more three pointers. The Kings also won more games than the W's during each players Rookie year.
The W's went 23 and 43 Klays rookie Year. Klay has also had the advantage of playing with Curry his whole carreer.
What does this mean? Well to me it means just comparing their Rookie seasons Keegan looks pretty solid compared to Klay.
I think as Keegan grows his game he will get better. He is already pretty dang good.
The W's went 23 and 43 Klays rookie Year. Klay has also had the advantage of playing with Curry his whole carreer.
What does this mean? Well to me it means just comparing their Rookie seasons Keegan looks pretty solid compared to Klay.
I think as Keegan grows his game he will get better. He is already pretty dang good.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
It’s kinda fun to look back on the season that Keegan had. I watched highlights of his first game and they look a lot like playoff Keegan. A lot more drives and mid range stuff mixed in with the 3s. For a long stretch of the season he was basically just taking 3s. If he had more of a mixed bag he might have been even been higher in the rookie of the year race but might have sacrificed the record in the process.
I don't want to take anything away from Keegan's accomplishments for making the most made 3pters as a rookie, but Keegan is a product of his time and environment. When Klay came into the NBA, the league average of 3pt attempts per game was at 18.4....this season? 34.2. Nearly double!
If you put Klay or Curry in today's game as an NBA rookie, they'd decimate the record.
Keegan also landed in the perfect environment to make all the 3s he did. There was very little pressure on him to do anything else on offense except hit open 3s. He was literally the 5th option in our starting lineup.. Fox and Sabonis drew a lot of the attention for defenses. The best wing on the opposing team guarded Barnes. Murray had a very lush life... more than any other top 10 pick (the discourse of the other rookies playing on "bad teams" is very silly when you consider everything). Keegan went into a great situation.
In Klay's rookie year, Curry only played 26 games. The Warriors were led by David Lee and Monte Ellis..... they finished 13th in the West. You bring up the Kings' record... but we probably still make the playoffs with Kessler starting. Our team has been just that good.
Keegan in his own right will be just fine.. but comparing him to Klay, even rookie Klay is a bit unfair..to Keegan.
Totally unfair, because Keegan’s taller and more likeable.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
If the record is so easy to break in todays game why was the previous record from the 17/18 season and the second place was 12/13? 5 years later when every team is putting up 50 threes a game and still, It’s Keegan’s name at the top. By your logic the record should be broken nearly every year.
Klay had 500 threes in his first 3 years which was a record. 211 in his second year. Let’s not pretend they weren’t jacking up a ton of 3s on that squad.
TL;DR version: NBA defenses let Keegan shoot a bunch of open catch and shoot 3s.
As I said in the rest of the post, the Kings' environment allows for Keegan to put up a bunch of 3s and open shots because he's the team's 5th option in the starting lineup. I've got some stats to back it up:
- Keegan is top 10 among all NBA players in 3pt FG frequency %
- 6.3 FGA out of 9.8 FGA attempts per game were from 3pt
- 5.9 3pt attempts out of the 6.3 3pt attempts were classified as "open" or "wide open"
- 93.6% of all Keegan's 3pt attempts were at least open... this is one of the highest in the NBA
- He's top 10 among all NBA players in "wide open" 3pt FG frequency %
- he averaged 3.6 3pt attempts a game where the closest defender was 6+ ft away
- He's top 30 among all NBA players in "open" 3pt FG frequency %
- he averaged 2.3 3pt attempts a game where the closest defender was 4-6ft away
- He's top 10 among all NBA players in "wide open" 3pt FG frequency %
- Keegan is top 10 among all NBA player in catch and shoot 3pt attempts per game
- 5.8 out of 6.3 3pt attempts were on catch and shoot
Keegan's record will be broken in the next 5 years.. possibly next 3. Here are the scenarios where I see it being broken:
- rookie gets the keys to the franchise and chucks up 3s (Trae/Mitchell)
- rookie goes on a loaded team and primarily shoots open 3s (Keegan)
- rookie is a pure 3pt specialist with a limited game (Duncan Robinson)
- rookie is the next GOAT shooter (Curry/Klay)
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
all those points could be used in an argument that it will be tough to break because as you said it was a “perfect storm” that led to his numbers. Rookies are given the keys to the franchise every year but there really hasn’t been any of those types come close.
I do think it will be broken and it won’t be surprising if it’s in the next few years but I still think it’s silly to dismiss the accomplishment. Keegan gets open looks because he has high BBIQ. He shoots a high percentage because he is an elite shooter and never takes bad shots. He took the majority of his shots from behind the arc because that was the role he was asked to play. He played through injury and stayed on the court. He played big minutes because he impacts winning. Keegan was 12th in made threes in the entire league with only the top 4 guys having any real separation (5-12 were within a few made 3s)
I do think it will be broken and it won’t be surprising if it’s in the next few years but I still think it’s silly to dismiss the accomplishment. Keegan gets open looks because he has high BBIQ. He shoots a high percentage because he is an elite shooter and never takes bad shots. He took the majority of his shots from behind the arc because that was the role he was asked to play. He played through injury and stayed on the court. He played big minutes because he impacts winning. Keegan was 12th in made threes in the entire league with only the top 4 guys having any real separation (5-12 were within a few made 3s)
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King Baller
All-Star
So Klays improvement parallels Curry playing…..hhhmmm.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Yes, And he's already putting the ball on the floor and doing runners in the lane. How many 6'8" guys do that? I'd also add that ability in the shot-creator column. That along with some post ups and the fake-side step you mention fits. Also, I don't see why he couldn't do a jab step step back at the 3 point point line either. Lastly, the best thing I saw him do all season was flying around a pick set at the top of the 3 point line and stopping with perfect balance to bury a 3 point shot. You don't see that every day from 6'8" guys. There is a lot to work with there.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
If Keegan learns the Dirk fadeaway, it’s ova
bajaden
Hall of Famer
If you watched Keegan his freshman year at Iowa, he played a very similar role that he played with the Kings his past season. He was just fitting in and trying to do what the team needed him to do. However, in his Sophomore year at Iowa, he was asked to be the star of the team, and he was. He scored from everywhere on the floor. 3 pointers, mid-range, post ups and attacking downhill at the basket. I suspect you'll see a similar jump with him next season.
He wants to be great, and he's a very hard worker. He knows where he needs to improve, and I love the fact that he said he was going to spend the summer working out with Sabonis. I'd love to see him run a two man game similar to what Huerter and Sabonis do. He does need to tighten his handle and get a little stronger. But I'm not worried about him. I think he'll eventually be an all star. He has that kind of upside.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I actually think they are pretty easy to tell apart if you see them together
PorchSurfin
Starter
Keegan's on Kris's back.
Absolutely.
Despite the obvious swerve, I thought it was easy to spot our guy.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
The Gman said on Matt George’s podcast that he felt bad getting the DPOG chain that night because he felt Keegan deserved it. Humble dude
CVKingsfan
Bench
Caccia
Starter
Make it so, no. 1!
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Kris's combine measurements came in and since he and Keegan are identical twins, you'd think we'd finally have a pretty good sense of Keegan's measurements now but even back in their Iowa days, it always felt like Keegan was a bit longer and bigger than his brother so who knows?
(Also did not expect the Murray twins to have a bigger wingspan than Paul George.)
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Lethal shooter commenting on Keegan’s ad for Adidas. I wonder if he worked with him?
