Kevin Martin: Does he have potential to be great?

C

CaminoChaos

Bench
In the limited minutes he played, I noticed he gets to the basket at will. He is a decent shooter and plays good defense. He can do a little of everything. I just wish he would gain weight and get playing time.
 
First, I changed the title of the thread. Kevin deserves to have his whole name up there. It's not like we're short on space. ;)

Special K is one of the most interesting rooks the Kings have had in a very long time. I'm sure Kingsgurl will fill in some details when she sees this, but lets just say for now that he's hungry, he's dedicated and he's committed to improving his game this summer so he'll get more playing time next year.

And he's got a great smile!

;)
 
he's got a lot of talent but needs to put some weight on. He's just way to skinny to be really great in this league. Who knows maybe he'll come back next year looking like shaq. :rolleyes:
 
If you guys look at Doug Christie when he was Kevin's age, you'll see their physiques are very similar. Kevin's family has said more than once that it's genetic. The whole family tends to be slender.
 
He will obviously gain strength in his next few years as do all rookie NBA players. IMO, i think he should try to be more aggresive while on the court. He seemed kind of timid. This could be due to a lack of playing time, or the fear of others thinking he was being greedy/ballhog/rookie etc. I think he will emerge as a rising star within the next two years. He was the second leading scorer before he was drafted.
 
potential? absolutely. he's got all the tools that would make a player great. i think the only two things he needs is some guidance and some time to mature. obviously, he's still raw and is still defining his style of play and role on the team which will take time to mature... however, i can't help but think that he needs a role model and leader to really bring his game to another level. who that might be- i can't really say whom quite yet.
 
Great? Whoa there...have to figure out whether he's even a long term NBAer first. Kind of premature to talk about greatness for a guy who averaged 2.9pts on 38 shooting in his first year

He shows flashes of being a true natural scorer which hint of something very interesting, and that seems to give him a chance to eventualy be better than the roleplayers of the world, but results so far have been modest. He's got an ugly awkward shooting form that really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up (still unbeleivable that a good leaper basically uses a set shot) and can be inexplicably invisible at times. He also has yet to make the necesary adjustments to the NBA and develop and in between game -- you can tell he was used to being bigger/better than his college opponents and just being able to charge to the rim unimpeded. And then of course there is the strength issue.

I think he has more chance to be "great" than does a Mo Evans roleplayer type. But he also has more chances to just fail and become another big college scorer unable to make the transition to the NBA. Could also plateau as just a solid bench scorer ala a Lucius Harris (games are obviously different), just very hard to tell. But there is a potential difference/difficulty there -- Kevin is not a catch and shoot player, and indeed his chance to be special is BECAUSE he's not a catch and shoot player. Unfortunately most successful long term benchers/roleplayers arouodn the league are -- they excel at being able to play without the ball and open space on the floor and therefore being able to compliment star players who dominate the ball and need driving lanes/the post to be open for them. That could make it something of an all or nothign thing for Kevin -- either he really blossoms into a star, or at least consistent starter, or he struggles to find a place on the bench depsite having mroe talent than many other guys, simply becuase their games are more suited to being compliemnetary players.

If we were completely rebuilding I actually think it would be worth it to just turn the position over to him next season as the expected starter. See what he had, see if he blossomed. But as always with us, we're likely to be trying to be more serious than that, and I doubt we can afford to take such a chance on a guy who barely played last year. So then we go out and get a FA OG, or bring back Cat, and Kevin gets buried and starved for minutes again. Tough position to be in.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing this dude play over the Cat, he has much more upside and has potential to be workhorse like Dougie on D
 
As far as his weight, look at Tayshaun Prince. That boy is skin and bones and he is one of the best defensive players in the league. Named as one of the All Defensive 2nd team. Kevin is young. He has a lot of time to add some bulk. He will never be a big guy. He is not made that way. But he will get a little bigger and a lot stronger as the years go on. I think he is a long term NBAer, whether it is with the Kings remains to be seen. He has a lot of raw talent. He needs a good coach and time.
 
brick- you're right. i think "great" is taken a little out of context. if you look at jordan, magic, kobe (I'LL admit that he's pretty good), or any future hall-of-famers, "great" is an innate ability to just lead and rise above the rest. as for kevin, i'm just hoping he'll develop to his abilities and potential. the only thing i'm afraid of is the kings are never going to experience his full talent (i'm sorry to say- look at gerald wallace) with such little time on the floor. he's shown flashes of what he can do (remember the pass between the legs? i forgot on whom)- i say we give him more time than just when we're up or down 20 points in a game. let him sweat it out with the starters; that'll probably be the only way to see what he can really do. i'm optimistic.
 
What about starting Mo, and letting Martin get big minutes backing him up?

Although I guess that means we're hopefully trading Corliss and Thomas to upgrade at PF then, as SG would be the other logical spot barring a trade of the core 3.
 
LPKingsFan said:
What about starting Mo, and letting Martin get big minutes backing him up?
Click to expand...

That would be Kevin's best realistic scenario. But it really does maroon us as good but nothing more. Our "core" used to play as second and third fiddles behind/beside our REAL core (the Webb/Vlade/DC trio) and now we are going to throw them out there next to roleplayers and rooks and they are susposed to acheive what the prior unit could not? Not happening.

If you were going to go Mo (even if he returns, which is still a signficant "if") and Kevin as your OGs, then barring a major explosion by Kevin (don't think Mo has that ability) you would need an incredible stud at PF to even get us close to the squads which couldn't get over the hump in the past.

Just using this as an example, but a Mo/Kevin OG combo works much better if you've cashed in 2/3 of the "core" to get KG than it does with our current trio of good but not great types. You can have a weak roleplaying position or two next to a true superstar (indeed normally have to with the salaries of those guys).
 
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Kevin Martin can be a Tayshaun Prince type player with good coaching
 
^ was thinking along the same lines (tayshaun prince)! and i agree - kevin martin does have a lot of potential. he seems to be a hard worker as well. i'd love for him to see more minutes (as a King of course!) next season.
 
i think he's more of kerry kittles based on his frame since tayshawn plays the 3. but he can play D.

I really thought Adelman(see fire adelman thread) didn't play this kid enough, and I was pretty mad at giving him low minutes. Even though he hasn't really shown it this season, K-mart does have very good 3-point shooting(somethin like mid to upper 30% in college).

HE WILL ONLY GET BETTER.
 
Bricklayer said:
Great? Whoa there...have to figure out whether he's even a long term NBAer first. Kind of premature to talk about greatness for a guy who averaged 2.9pts on 38 shooting in his first year

He shows flashes of being a true natural scorer which hint of something very interesting, and that seems to give him a chance to eventualy be better than the roleplayers of the world, but results so far have been modest. He's got an ugly awkward shooting form that really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up (still unbeleivable that a good leaper basically uses a set shot) and can be inexplicably invisible at times. He also has yet to make the necesary adjustments to the NBA and develop and in between game -- you can tell he was used to being bigger/better than his college opponents and just being able to charge to the rim unimpeded. And then of course there is the strength issue.

I think he has more chance to be "great" than does a Mo Evans roleplayer type. But he also has more chances to just fail and become another big college scorer unable to make the transition to the NBA. Could also plateau as just a solid bench scorer ala a Lucius Harris (games are obviously different), just very hard to tell. But there is a potential difference/difficulty there -- Kevin is not a catch and shoot player, and indeed his chance to be special is BECAUSE he's not a catch and shoot player. Unfortunately most successful long term benchers/roleplayers arouodn the league are -- they excel at being able to play without the ball and open space on the floor and therefore being able to compliment star players who dominate the ball and need driving lanes/the post to be open for them. That could make it something of an all or nothign thing for Kevin -- either he really blossoms into a star, or at least consistent starter, or he struggles to find a place on the bench depsite having mroe talent than many other guys, simply becuase their games are more suited to being compliemnetary players.

If we were completely rebuilding I actually think it would be worth it to just turn the position over to him next season as the expected starter. See what he had, see if he blossomed. But as always with us, we're likely to be trying to be more serious than that, and I doubt we can afford to take such a chance on a guy who barely played last year. So then we go out and get a FA OG, or bring back Cat, and Kevin gets buried and starved for minutes again. Tough position to be in.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you thought this one through and it makes sense. Nice post.
 
Bricklayer said:
Just using this as an example, but a Mo/Kevin OG combo works much better if you've cashed in 2/3 of the "core" to get KG than it does with our current trio of good but not great types. You can have a weak roleplaying position or two next to a true superstar (indeed normally have to with the salaries of those guys).
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you never posted this one in the trade thread. Interesting combo there. Would that work with salaries???
 
First off, I agree with some of you that Kevin did not get enough run this season to develop as much as he should have as a budding NBA player. I have concluded from close observation this season that "garbage minutes" are almost worthless for rookie development. Your teammates are not a cohesive unit, often they are selfish on O, and the opposition is either not composed of or playing to their potential, regardless of who is on the benevolent end of an already-decided game.

Kevin played his best when he was inserted with the regular rotation. With that said, even when he did get "quality" minutes, he was very, very often left out of the offense by whatever PG was running the show at the time (typically Mike). The offense would usually go to the opposite side of the floor and Kevin would be left standing at his position in the corner to watch a teammate shoot, horribly out of position to help in rebounding as well.

This situation grew worse when first, Doug left, and then when Chris left. Doug was Kevin's mentor, and Kevin was really disappointed with losing Doug as a teacher and friend. Chris was also very supportive of Special K, providing lots of encouragement, and when he left it hurt Kevin too. Both these guys were interested in Kevin's development and did their best to keep him involved when running with the regular rotation.

Kevin's timidity on O is best explained in that Kevin didn't want to step on any veterans' toes. Obviously, we now know in retrospect that he should not have felt that way and just did his thing.

Perhaps it's from not playing enough, but Kevin needs to work more on finding the space on the floor, given what the offense is doing at the time. I didn't feel that he had as many open looks for outside shots right off the pass that he should have gotten. He needs to run tighter off the screens too, and that should help him get better looks.

Despite the fact that Kevin's weight is similar to some other good NBA players, he really does need to put on some upper body strength to optimize his performance at the 2 slot. Not necessarily a lot of extra weight, perhaps no more than 5 or 10 pounds, but it all has to go to his muscular development.

Kevin's jump shot will not be altered significantly. It's just too late in the game to engage an NBA coaching staff in such a project. I know some adjustments have and will continue to be made, but don't look for some totally revamped shot evolving. It just does't happen much in the NBA. And that's OK. The ball just needs to go in the hole. The reason it didn't happen more last year has less to do with form and more to do with other non-physical things.

Kevin's strength as someone already aptly pointed out is his ability to get by his man and slash to the hole. He continues to need to work on decisionmaking after the initial "drive by" in terms of stopping for the short jumper or going all the way in. That will come with more game experience. But have we seen such a quick player that looks so smooth and effortless in his motion when he zips to the hole? It's almost as if Kevin has not yet really shown us that he's turned on the afterburners. Lotsa upside.

On defense, IMHO Kevin was stellar this season. Sure, he got beat on occasion and yes he got posted up quite a bit and was scored on from time to time, but for the most part, his defensive assignment did NOT score very much. I can remember NUMEROUS games where Kevin's man didn't score while he was in the game and then Mobley or Evans would come in and the guy would go off for a quick 4 or 6 points. Happened a whole lot. Kevin was particularly effective playing in the zone, and while it's not a routine D for the Kings, Kevin does have significant value added there. He worked hard on D and generally stayed in front of his man. He has the potential to be an all-league defensive player down the road.

Kevin's rookie season rebounding was poor. There is absolutely no good reason why he couldn't have done a lot of things that Mo did on the offensive glass, given his extreme athleticism, so more effort needs to be placed there for him to be totally effective. One possible "excuse" was getting left in the corner on O so much, Kevin was never really in position to grab boards with any great frequency. But more effort should have been made in that realm. But did you notice? Kevin's man almost NEVER beat him down the floor on a fast break. Probably not the greatest trade-off for lack of rebounding, but it's one ameliorating factor to consider.

All in all, Kevin has the potential to significantly improve in the next campaign. Word is that he will be working very hard this off-season and spending most of his time in SACTown working out. No Gerald Wallace situation here. The kid wants to improve, and so hopefully we'll see just that come training camp. He admittedly has a lot of work to do to elevate his game, and he'll need some help from RA (playing time) and Bibby (to keep him involved when he is in there), but I think he can do it.

I just hope that Kevin's $1 million salary for next season doesn't get caught up in the expected whirlwind of trades by Geoff this off-season. It's a nice, neat number to balance out a multi-player deal, so let's keep our fingers crossed that he remains a King.

Needless to say, I am a big Special K fan. :D
 
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<Quote>Kevin's jump shot will not be altered significantly. It's just too late in the game</Quote>

That is a real shame. I know Webb really worked on his free throws and made big improvements. I can't see why a guy with all the resources of an nba team, and the free time afforded by said occupation could not make big changes over the offseason. Brick is right, his shot is ugly and awkward. It needs to be fixed for him to really shine.
 
Because you would be asking the number 2 leading college scorer the year he came out in the draft, to start all over at 'square one' They just don't do it at this stage in the game, and, indeed, it would probably be counterproductive to even attempt to do so. There are a ton of effective, potent scorers who have unorthodox shooting styles. That dude, Peja, for instance. Not your 'picture perfect' shot by a mile, but, hey, it works. And Kenny Thomas has almost the same akward looking shot, WITH a hitch thrown in, still seems to work.

My vision for this kid when we drafted him was a player in the mold of Doug on the defensive end, with a slashing, athletic attack on the offensive end. Everything I have seen from him still leads me to believe he can be that player, maybe more.
 
Kingsgurl said:
Because you would be asking the number 2 leading college scorer the year he came out in the draft, to start all over at 'square one' They just don't do it at this stage in the game, and, indeed, it would probably be counterproductive to even attempt to do so. There are a ton of effective, potent scorers who have unorthodox shooting styles. That dude, Peja, for instance. Not your 'picture perfect' shot by a mile, but, hey, it works. And Kenny Thomas has almost the same akward looking shot, WITH a hitch thrown in, still seems to work.

My vision for this kid when we drafted him was a player in the mold of Doug on the defensive end, with a slashing, athletic attack on the offensive end. Everything I have seen from him still leads me to believe he can be that player, maybe more.
Click to expand...


As far as awkward shooters that shott the ball well Shawn Marion fits that category perfectly.

Kevin, if given the time to develop, will be a solid player in this league that will get you 10-20 points a night. If he makes an effort to get to the foul line he may even be an all-star someday. He has great slashing skills and could be a great threat at going to the basket, of course he will have to put on some muscle to be able to take the punishment, but hopefully he gets significant time next season.
 
I haven't seen enough of KM to make a decision on him. I think thats bottom line. Of course he can improve, any player can with the drive.
 
he can be good but i doubt that it will happen here.... he is also the the same height and size as reggie miller....
 
SacTownKid said:
As far as awkward shooters that shott the ball well Shawn Marion fits that category perfectly.

Kevin, if given the time to develop, will be a solid player in this league that will get you 10-20 points a night. If he makes an effort to get to the foul line he may even be an all-star someday. He has great slashing skills and could be a great threat at going to the basket, of course he will have to put on some muscle to be able to take the punishment, but hopefully he gets significant time next season.
Click to expand...

The skinny kid was the ONLY King to not suffer some sort of injury during the course of the season. The kid is TOUGH. I think he can take the punishment.
 
I remember seeing him take a couple of hard charges and bouncing right back up like he had slinkies on his butt. ;)
 
His durability is the least of my worries, and on this team, that is saying a lot.

Also, I heard he was spending the off season here, working out, which is something we didn't see enough of from some who shall remain nameless. This kid has the drive, believe me.
 
I think, in a way, some of us are actually afraid to voice our hopes for Special K because of the possibility the basketball gods might hear us. Once bitten, twice shy. With all the bite marks we've had recently, we look like the only sparerib at the tailgate party.

;)
 
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