I think Russ and Dennis have occasionally made those guys look good while burying our young guys. Having a PG helps allowing Monk do what he does best, for just one instance. Same with DDR not overplaying. We're stuck with LaVine for time being.
Keon Ellis
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Caccia
Starter
Keon Ellis had this to say concerning all the trade rumors:
"I mean, it's part of the job. It's kind of what you signed up for. It's a business at the end of the day. Everyone knows that. So it is what it is. You can't really do anything about it. So just don't let it affect you."
"But is it possible to be named in all these rumors, and keep practicing and have the mindset?"
"Yeah. I mean, you definitely see it. I mean, you hear about it, but there's nothing you can do. So it is just talk at the end of the day until something happens."
This is a similar answer to what Malik Monk had to say in training camp, after he was reportedly used as trade bait with at least two teams over the summer. He pointed out that nothing is real until he hears it from his agent.
"I mean, it's part of the job. It's kind of what you signed up for. It's a business at the end of the day. Everyone knows that. So it is what it is. You can't really do anything about it. So just don't let it affect you."
"But is it possible to be named in all these rumors, and keep practicing and have the mindset?"
"Yeah. I mean, you definitely see it. I mean, you hear about it, but there's nothing you can do. So it is just talk at the end of the day until something happens."
This is a similar answer to what Malik Monk had to say in training camp, after he was reportedly used as trade bait with at least two teams over the summer. He pointed out that nothing is real until he hears it from his agent.
Jdbraver137
Starter
It’s clear this leadership ground has no idea what they are doing. I think it’s just ridiculous that the FO thinks they are going to get anything of value for the vets. Maybe Sabonis. But Zach, DDR, and Schroeder aren’t getting much back. No 1st rounder, no young player. Other teams aren’t stupid. Losing Keon for nothing is gonna hurt too.
I think the worst case is he signs and trades. But that is absolutely worst case. Still plenty of opportunity to trade him as part of a package, trade him for almost no incoming player return solely for picks (very rare for a player of his performance/current contract so could be an interesting return if a team has a surplus of picks and an interest), and of course if we clear out a spot for him before the deadline he may sign the extension on Feb 9th. Sure crappy timing we basically have to take him at his word a few days prior at the deadline if he will/won't.
sono
Starter
Keon’s a legit 3D asset. Oh, I hate these trade rumors every time his name pops up. Flipping him for a pick is a total shot in the dark… and given the Kings’ draft history
good luck with that.Sure, the rotation’s crowded now, but once they clear out a couple vets soon, and suddenly he’s indispensable. Happens fast.
Yeah the problem is we have no guarantee of re-signing him. I would have thought it would have been negotiated pre-season but between picking up his cheap option and then not playing him, I'm losing faith that the team has a good relationship with him at this point.Keon’s a legit 3D asset. Oh, I hate these trade rumors every time his name pops up. Flipping him for a pick is a total shot in the dark… and given the Kings’ draft history
Sure, the rotation’s crowded now, but once they clear out a couple vets soon, and suddenly he’s indispensable. Happens fast.
Srzly
Bench
The Doug era can’t end soon enough.
I honestly don't understand the decision making. Last night was another perfect example; we're getting whooped in the 2nd half, as Tetsu put it in the game thread, we "accidentally put all our good defenders on the floor at the same time" in the 3rd... and surprise, surprise, we came back and made it a game. And it was anchored by having at least 2 of Keon/Nique/Keegan on the floor (we even ran all 3! with Precious!) that let Russ or DDR handle the offensive responsibility.
And there's room to really incorporate these guys; if we're not burning the vets all the way up minutes wise. Russ played 40, LaVine 37, DDR, 36, Keegan 37. It's poor decision making, plain and simple.
I saw somewhere on twitter or reddit this morning that the FO values Keon and it is coaching that has either soured on him or is doing this for some other reason.
Unless it is "FO values him but has also told coaches to assign minutes according to payroll" I don't get it. And we can trash Doug's inexperience but Brown did the same crap and that was in the immediate aftermath of him breaking out to close the year prior. If he has some hidden attitude problem or isn't doing what the coaches want would love to know what it is.
Unless it is "FO values him but has also told coaches to assign minutes according to payroll" I don't get it. And we can trash Doug's inexperience but Brown did the same crap and that was in the immediate aftermath of him breaking out to close the year prior. If he has some hidden attitude problem or isn't doing what the coaches want would love to know what it is.
Srzly
Bench
I think that was the first time this season that Doug played Keon and Keegan together for a decent stretch and once again it was working to have defenders playing together.
Same as last seasons. When those two are on the court together, that’s when the kings look their best. I think you or someone else have shared data supporting this in the past but Doug still doesn’t seem to get it.
This coaching staff makes it way harder than it has to be.
The simplest answer is that the team is showcasing the vets it wants to get rid of while trying NOT to drum up too much interest in a guy they want to keep around so there's less of a chance anybody will scuttle a deal at the deadline because we wouldn't include Keon.
It's pretty funny that the team is very clearly in the first stages of doing exactly what the majority of fans on this forum want, but they still get mad because the front office is patiently and deliberately going through step 1 instead of skipping directly to step 3.
Yeah the complicated part of the equation is that trade deadline occurs before he is extension eligible and if we have somehow irked Keon in the process he is gone.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
Are you ready for the Mike Woodson era. Beyond that, who are we in favor of that would also be willing to work for Ranadive?
Yeah, but there's still room to keep development a priority in addition to keeping the vets playing. Are teams really going to treat DDR/LaVine/Russ differently at 28-32 MPG, as opposed to the 36-40 MPG they play now?
It'd be one thing if we were winning, but we're not. So we're not only winning, but we're just straight up not developing any of the future pieces. Let's see what happens with Raynaud when Domas comes back, who only has gotten to show off because of the Domas injury and he's forced Doug's hand with how badly Eubanks has played. We would have never seen him this year if Domas remained healthy.
And, we've had multiple injuries to guys like Dennis/Monk over the course of the season and Carter still hasn't gotten an opportunity. Instead, it's just been load up the vets with even more minutes. And guess what, Keon/Nique probably go close to 0 when Dennis gets healthy again.
Srzly
Bench
I get the point, and I don’t have a good answer, but we just look so poorly coached on both ends of the floor, combined with his rotations, that I’m not worried about regretting moving on from him like I worried about with Mike Brown.
I get that the players share the blame but DC has done nothing to inspire confidence that he can coach a winning team even if we are able to move off of the vets and get the right pieces. I guess we will see.
But please no Mike Woodson. Can’t stand that guy.
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
Ironically your 16 minutes average floor time prediction for Ellis, was over shot
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
It all went downhill when Brown decided the day before game 1 last season, that he would start Huerter coming off rehab over him
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The Pacers game was the telling one. DC wanted that game. Bad. He's partly putting off development. Strange, I really thought he was a development guy. Guess not.
Best part is we would have won the game had he just continued at least to keep 2 of Nique/Keon/Keegan on the floor with Russ and a big to close. Like:
Russ
Keon
Nique
Keegan
Precious or Maxime
Wins that game with how Russ had it rolling and how good the other 4 were playing on D
ShastaKingsFan
Hall of Famer
the continued "strange" aspect is what always gives me pause. He's either a complete idiot, which is hard to believe, or something else is at play here. He may not be NBA head coaching material for a successful team, but believing that he's an incompetent idiot is a few steps further
KainLear
Starter
Fans are free to say and do whatever they feel, logic be damned. Business decisions, however, are guided by countless data-driven and strategic considerations that most fans will never need to think about.
That’s why the people making those calls are hired and continually paid to do so, while the rest of us on the forum are not.
And to be fair, fans rarely have the full picture when forming their opinions. For that reason alone, it’s hard to take most fan debates too seriously. They’re essentially water-cooler chatter, not unlike a spirited Real Housewives argument.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And yet, hiring people on this forum would probably have yielded more success if even just by chance over every single thing this organization has done. haha. There is one trick to basketball, history > data. Look at history and copy off the homework of the ones that got good grades.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The issue is the Kings have been skipping all the other steps for years, specifically in regards to development and overpaying for perceived need with Schroder being another prime example of what this franchise does and are still technically skipping the step that involves the potential pieces that will actually still be here when the dust settles. We went through years of "showcasing" guys like Kenny Thomas. Nope, doesn't work that way, these are known quantities. We'll know what's what here soon as the NBA opens for business because this is again players that are well known around the league.
There's a kind of Venn diagram of outrage going on here where people are upset about specific sets of circumstances and not all of them overlap. There are fans who want the team to tank for the lottery an those fans are happy when we lose. There are fans that want Doug Christie fired ASAP and they're not going to be happy until that happens. There are also subsets of fans that want all of the vets traded ASAP, fans that want to prioritize getting Ellis and Carter more playing time, fans that want Keegan taking more shots, fans that DON'T want the team to tank and want to watch competitive basketball, fans that just want clear communication on what the plan is, and so on. It's pretty much guaranteed that no matter what happens someone will be unhappy about it.
We can all see that this is bad basketball though so changes ARE coming sooner or later and the worse this gets, the quicker the changes will come so ultimately we just have to weather the storm. And to the extent that people are impatient or apprehensive about what is coming, it's not hard to see why. We've all got rebuilding fatigue at this point and there's no guarantee that the next set of changes will be good changes either. Many have tried and failed to get this team onto a winning path.
Weird that the defense first coach who didn't put up big numbers but was always an excellent defender, doesn't believe in the player that doesn't put up big numbers but is the best defender on the team.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
Same front office that didn’t offer him a contract lmao
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The fatigue should be laid at the feet of not actually following through with the important part of the rebuild. People quickly forget how they almost screwed up Fox. That he made it another few years was a miracle. It took them years to finally just give him the dang wheel. They draft Fox and the first thing done is to sign George Hill to get in his way. I don't care how "good of a deal" it is, "can't pass up talent", whatever, no, don't do it. A minimum guy for the locker room is one thing but the Kings almost every single time find a coach sneaking his way into competing with a very low ceiling by getting "his" guys in the picture. Sucking and drafting is easy if it's a no brainer draft, GM IQ is all about the plan after all that and the Kings have NEVER had a plan when it came to that point. Not since Vivek took over. Monte kind of had something going with the G league system. Now we'll see if that's changed. Hope not.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, but that was kind of smart. The Kings have repeatedly done dumb things like create space just to give a player already under contract more money. Let the market set value if you have Bird rights even if it's not a huge difference in the case of Keon. We saw what happened with Lyles. There was no reason to immediately run back certain parts of that team without the market being set. Unfortunately Perry already did the same exact thing with Dennis Schroder. When you start with that and see what's going on it's difficult to have faith that things have changed, haha.
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