Keon Ellis

Keon is such an underrated player. Defensively, there’s no questioning his impact.
Offensively, his midrange pull-ups and teardrops look automatic this season. He even nailed a smooth bank shot over a defender instead of settling for a regular jumper in split seconds today vs. the Suns. His decision-making is top-notch.
 
Tetsujin said:
At the same time, Keon’s agent got Dennis paid for the next three seasons, got Keegan a 5 year deal with no team option, and got us to give McBuckets a roster spot/the Udonis Haslem special so it’s fair to say that he and Scott must like working together.
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We can say this, but until Keon inks that deal, right now our assumption is he's headed to UFA. He's not getting credit for "working with an agent" on a backroom deal if that deal doesn't get signed
 
The_Jamal said:
We can say this, but until Keon inks that deal, right now our assumption is he's headed to UFA. He's not getting credit for "working with an agent" on a backroom deal if that deal doesn't get signed
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Agreeeeed. I am just so not the guy who cares even a little bit about whatever backroom nonsense occurs between agents and front offices. We're not privy to those conversations, so I don't take them into account when I evaluate a front office's performance. When Keon has signed on the dotted line, this front office will get credit from me. Until then, I'm leering at them suspiciously.
 
It's hard to be positive about the Ellis situation. If we just look at the facts - minutes played - how can one be optimistic about him getting signed?
 
Padrino said:
Agreeeeed. I am just so not the guy who cares even a little bit about whatever backroom nonsense occurs between agents and front offices. We're not privy to those conversations, so I don't take them into account when I evaluate a front office's performance. When Keon has signed on the dotted line, this front office will get credit from me. Until then, I'm leering at them suspiciously.
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Supposedly, the big benefit of Perry is the relationships he had with agents ans other GMs around the league. Basically bringing in a NBA lifer as opposed to the analytics nerd Monte who likely was fairly poor at that part of the job.

So my expectation is that if you let RFA rights fall off an incredibly valuable player that you know theres 0 chance he's walking out that door and can use the flexibility effectively (he didn't, but whatever).
 
The_Jamal said:
Supposedly, the big benefit of Perry is the relationships he had with agents ans other GMs around the league. Basically bringing in a NBA lifer as opposed to the analytics nerd Monte who likely was fairly poor at that part of the job.

So my expectation is that if you let RFA rights fall off an incredibly valuable player that you know theres 0 chance he's walking out that door and can use the flexibility effectively (he didn't, but whatever).
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Yeah, I understand the logic, I just don't trust it. I don't have a reason to believe in the value of his schmoozing ability as of right now. Perry's got an uphill battle to convince me that his relationships with agents and rival GMs are going to be worth a damn, especially if he's a guy whose player analysis is as shallow as I think it is. That said, I don't get stuck in my initial impression. Perry could make me a believer right quick if he initiates a rebuild by the trade deadline, re-signs Keon Ellis in the off-season, and makes a smart selection in the 2026 draft.
 
The_Jamal said:
Supposedly, the big benefit of Perry is the relationships he had with agents ans other GMs around the league. Basically bringing in a NBA lifer as opposed to the analytics nerd Monte who likely was fairly poor at that part of the job.

So my expectation is that if you let RFA rights fall off an incredibly valuable player that you know theres 0 chance he's walking out that door and can use the flexibility effectively (he didn't, but whatever).
Click to expand...
Well, if you value a player highly and expect to keep him and pay him, then they should have done something with this roster to get him playing time. If Keon was previously a lock in their mind to sign a long term deal, they are seemingly doing the one thing that would potentially change his mind.
 
Padrino said:
Yeah, I understand the logic, I just don't trust it. I don't have a reason to believe in the value of his schmoozing ability as of right now. Perry's got an uphill battle to convince me that his relationships with agents and rival GMs are going to be worth a damn, especially if he's a guy whose player analysis is as shallow as I think it is. That said, I don't get stuck in my initial impression. Perry could make me a believer right quick if he initiates a rebuild by the trade deadline, re-signs Keon Ellis in the off-season, and makes a smart selection in the 2026 draft.
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Its like the golfer who claims he's a 5 handicap and then he goes and shoots a 101. "But i swear I've played great in the past!"

If Keon walks, it's one of the worst failures this team has ever had. Entirely avoidable scenario that got mucked up because... checks notes... we HAD to have a 32 year old Dennis Schroeder and a 37 year old Russ Westbrook play big minutes.

This offseason would have been ridiculously successful if:

Extend Keegan
Extend Keon
Draft Nique/Raynaud

That's it. Run it back, prioritize the youth, sell at the deadline with all our future picks intact.
 
The_Jamal said:
Its like the golfer who claims he's a 5 handicap and then he goes and shoots a 101. "But i swear I've played great in the past!"

If Keon walks, it's one of the worst failures this team has ever had. Entirely avoidable scenario that got mucked up because... checks notes... we HAD to have a 32 year old Dennis Schroeder and a 37 year old Russ Westbrook play big minutes.

This offseason would have been ridiculously successful if:

Extend Keegan
Extend Keon
Draft Nique/Raynaud

That's it. Run it back, prioritize the youth, sell at the deadline with all our future picks intact.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I would have called such an offseason "ridiculously successful", but I do agree that it would have been vastly preferable to the offseason we got. Given the conservative posture of teams around the league, there honestly wasn't a lot of opportunity to improve the roster, so I think restraint was warranted. Lock up Keegan and Keon on good deals, draft Nique/Raynaud, and trot out a company line that commits to the future rather than the present. I would have been quite happy with that.

I didn't mind the Kuminga pursuit as a potential buy-low roll of the dice, but I hated the idea of sacrificing first round draft capital to make it happen. Perry is in the hole with me because of the Schroder and Westbrook signings, but he does get positive marks for trading into the draft to snag Nique and possessing restraint enough to pass on Kuminga when the price was too high. It's not enough to overcome the stupidity of those other moves, but at least it suggests that there's hope for Perry.
 
Caccia said:
Good summary of Keon's value to the team:

https://kingsherald.com/articles/ke...es-him-a-player-who-needs-to-be-on-the-floor/
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If the King's front office really believes there aren't a lot of smart NBA front offices that know exactly how valuable Keon is as a role player, they are vastly mistaken. He may not get more MONEY from another team in the off-season, but he certainly will get interest from plenty of other smart contending teams that could envision him as a key piece. If he really wants to bet on himself, I could definitely see him taking a shorter/lower salary offer, elevate himself generally on the national scene on a play-off contender, and then get a large payday.
 
TaxMan said:
If the King's front office really believes there aren't a lot of smart NBA front offices that know exactly how valuable Keon is as a role player, they are vastly mistaken. He may not get more MONEY from another team in the off-season, but he certainly will get interest from plenty of other smart contending teams that could envision him as a key piece. If he really wants to bet on himself, I could definitely see him taking a shorter/lower salary offer, elevate himself generally on the national scene on a play-off contender, and then get a large payday.
Click to expand...

I could see him rejecting whatever the Kings might offer him after the new year, if they continue to diminish his role, and waiting till the summer to sign with somebody else
 
The_Jamal said:
Its like the golfer who claims he's a 5 handicap and then he goes and shoots a 101. "But i swear I've played great in the past!"

If Keon walks, it's one of the worst failures this team has ever had. Entirely avoidable scenario that got mucked up because... checks notes... we HAD to have a 32 year old Dennis Schroeder and a 37 year old Russ Westbrook play big minutes.

This offseason would have been ridiculously successful if:

Extend Keegan
Extend Keon
Draft Nique/Raynaud

That's it. Run it back, prioritize the youth, sell at the deadline with all our future picks intact.
Click to expand...
I often like to dream of a world where this happened. Demar also got bought out.
Carter (24) Monk (24)
Keon (34) LaVine (14)
LaVine (20) Nique (28)
Keegan (34) Isaac Jones (14)
Sabonis (34) Maxime/Cardwell (14)

This roster would have so much hope and time for development. Sell Sabonis/Monk if possible at the deadline. Buy out LaVine next summer. Get a top 5 draft pick. We could have rebuilt the roster in 2-3 years max.
 
BuddyBuckets said:
I often like to dream of a world where this happened. Demar also got bought out.
Carter (24) Monk (24)
Keon (34) LaVine (14)
LaVine (20) Nique (28)
Keegan (34) Isaac Jones (14)
Sabonis (34) Maxime/Cardwell (14)

This roster would have so much hope and time for development. Sell Sabonis/Monk if possible at the deadline. Buy out LaVine next summer. Get a top 5 draft pick. We could have rebuilt the roster in 2-3 years max.
Click to expand...
Sadly, the "we" you speak of doesn't include Vivek.
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
I could see him rejecting whatever the Kings might offer him after the new year, if they continue to diminish his role, and waiting till the summer to sign with somebody else
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It seems like management is likely telling Keon, "don't worry, we are getting this roster sorted out and you are a high priority going forward... exactly the type of player we want to model our playstyle around. Just be patient." If we can all see how stupid this ownership team is, I'm not sure why Keon and his agent will listen to that and really believe this is a better opportunity than elsewhere. I mean, maybe he does really LOVE sacramento, but feels like he's going to have better opportunities if he's willing to give up potentially a little bit more cash the kings might be willing to offer (assuming they are competent enough to offer it).
 
TaxMan said:
It seems like management is likely telling Keon, "don't worry, we are getting this roster sorted out and you are a high priority going forward... exactly the type of player we want to model our playstyle around. Just be patient." If we can all see how stupid this ownership team is, I'm not sure why Keon and his agent will listen to that and really believe this is a better opportunity than elsewhere. I mean, maybe he does really LOVE sacramento, but feels like he's going to have better opportunities if he's willing to give up potentially a little bit more cash the kings might be willing to offer (assuming they are competent enough to offer it).
Click to expand...
He really looks like a pro's pro team player, who never does anything to distract or break focus, not only for himself but also the team. Even when he is confused or upset, he's not going to share it with the media. It's another one of his strengths.

I keep in mind that he is from the Orlando area
 
BuddyBuckets said:
I often like to dream of a world where this happened. Demar also got bought out.
Carter (24) Monk (24)
Keon (34) LaVine (14)
LaVine (20) Nique (28)
Keegan (34) Isaac Jones (14)
Sabonis (34) Maxime/Cardwell (14)

This roster would have so much hope and time for development. Sell Sabonis/Monk if possible at the deadline. Buy out LaVine next summer. Get a top 5 draft pick. We could have rebuilt the roster in 2-3 years max.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what a "gap year" should have looked like. If we accept the presumption that none of our vets were movable (which, I'm dubious of tbh. I think we were just trying to stay competitive), then the plan this year should have been to find out which of these young guys are future 5+ year players with the team. And there'd be enough vets around to make sure none of them jumped in a huge role immediately, but still big enough roles to get a sense who can be considered core or not going forward.

I think we're unintentionally going to have things work out because it seems likely we're headed for a bottom 5 record this year. The offense won't be good enough to make up for a Keegan-less and a low minute Keon defense
 
TaxMan said:
It seems like management is likely telling Keon, "don't worry, we are getting this roster sorted out and you are a high priority going forward... exactly the type of player we want to model our playstyle around. Just be patient." If we can all see how stupid this ownership team is, I'm not sure why Keon and his agent will listen to that and really believe this is a better opportunity than elsewhere. I mean, maybe he does really LOVE sacramento, but feels like he's going to have better opportunities if he's willing to give up potentially a little bit more cash the kings might be willing to offer (assuming they are competent enough to offer it).
Click to expand...
From a management perspective, the idea clearly is - let's play the veterans at higher rotation and see if we can get some early wins that might suggest a shot at the playoff. Once that fails (which most here reasonably believe will, yours truly included) rotations will shift toward youth and vets that can be moved will be. It doesn't need to be that way, and really seems like a waste of everyone's time given the balderdash roster construction, but here we are again, "hoping" for a play in spot...
 
The_Jamal said:
This is exactly what a "gap year" should have looked like. If we accept the presumption that none of our vets were movable (which, I'm dubious of tbh. I think we were just trying to stay competitive), then the plan this year should have been to find out which of these young guys are future 5+ year players with the team. And there'd be enough vets around to make sure none of them jumped in a huge role immediately, but still big enough roles to get a sense who can be considered core or not going forward.

I think we're unintentionally going to have things work out because it seems likely we're headed for a bottom 5 record this year. The offense won't be good enough to make up for a Keegan-less and a low minute Keon defense
Click to expand...

The thing that is going to get annoying if they don't win is still the defensive mantra. The stats last year had Carter and Keon at an insane 2 man duo last season. Monk brings things, but goodness, just re-watching some highlights of the Suns game and it was clear Monk's defense killed it. Just killed that game deader than dead.
 
On the plus side, if our vets show that they can still contribute, maybe they become interesting assets instead of liabilities. Maybe we don't need to pay teams to take on LaVine's contract if he's contributing significantly in his minutes and some mid-playoff team needs a bump.

Keon has been a great value contract for us for years, but I suspect his value has been raised to the point that he doesn't make sense on a rebuilding team. (Which is where we all know we're headed sooner or later right?)
 
SacTownKid said:
The thing that is going to get annoying if they don't win is still the defensive mantra. The stats last year had Carter and Keon at an insane 2 man duo last season. Monk brings things, but goodness, just re-watching some highlights of the Suns game and it was clear Monk's defense killed it. Just killed that game deader than dead.
Click to expand...
I keep saying that playing Monk down the stretch instead of Keon or Carter cost us the game. And going to iso ball but really just being smart and getting more defensive guys in there like Keon would have won the game. DC played Cardwell who was a stud on the pick and roll. Monk was very bad on D. Lavine was ok, DDR was ok but not Monk
 
SacTownKid said:
The thing that is going to get annoying if they don't win is still the defensive mantra. The stats last year had Carter and Keon at an insane 2 man duo last season. Monk brings things, but goodness, just re-watching some highlights of the Suns game and it was clear Monk's defense killed it. Just killed that game deader than dead.
Click to expand...

Yeah you pair Monk with a Keon or Carter. That's how he stays effective on the floor.

The defensive hoopla is just lip service that Vivek is attracted to. He wants people who say all the buzz words ans are just yes men to his team design
 
Insomniacal Fan said:
On the plus side, if our vets show that they can still contribute, maybe they become interesting assets instead of liabilities. Maybe we don't need to pay teams to take on LaVine's contract if he's contributing significantly in his minutes and some mid-playoff team needs a bump.

Keon has been a great value contract for us for years, but I suspect his value has been raised to the point that he doesn't make sense on a rebuilding team. (Which is where we all know we're headed sooner or later right?)
Click to expand...

He's precisely the kind of player I would want in my rebuild
 
The_Jamal said:
This is exactly what a "gap year" should have looked like. If we accept the presumption that none of our vets were movable (which, I'm dubious of tbh. I think we were just trying to stay competitive), then the plan this year should have been to find out which of these young guys are future 5+ year players with the team. And there'd be enough vets around to make sure none of them jumped in a huge role immediately, but still big enough roles to get a sense who can be considered core or not going forward.

I think we're unintentionally going to have things work out because it seems likely we're headed for a bottom 5 record this year. The offense won't be good enough to make up for a Keegan-less and a low minute Keon defense
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As much as it pains me to see the team play without Keegan, I kind of agree.
My conspiracy theory optimistic outlook is that Perry hates guys like LaVine/Monk, but knew that Vivek was committed to seeing this disaster through. In effort to sabotage any chance he brought in Westbrook and made sure that our front court behind Sabonis/Keegan were unplayable (Trading JV, not signing any good vets at those spots). Perry knows this is going to fail, but then he can say look we tried it your way for a year, now give me 2-3 years to try my way.

Thats delusional, but one can hope.
 
Insomniacal Fan said:
The issue is I think he's the type of player other teams would want too, and after 4 years on NBA minimum wage, I expect he'll maximize his value. Rebuilding teams shouldn't overpay for vets
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He should maximize his value. Doesn't everyone try to do this?

Letting an undrafted gem that they were lucky enough to find and develop into a quality 3&D combo guard because they don't want to pay him what he is worth, would be right on brand for this sorry excuse of an NBA organization
 
The_Jamal said:
Yeah you pair Monk with a Keon or Carter. That's how he stays effective on the floor.

The defensive hoopla is just lip service that Vivek is attracted to. He wants people who say all the buzz words ans are just yes men to his team design
Click to expand...

Monk actually looked good as a lead guard when guess what?....he was paired with Keon. Not a surprise, because they compliment each others skill set
 
dude12 said:
I keep saying that playing Monk down the stretch instead of Keon or Carter cost us the game. And going to iso ball but really just being smart and getting more defensive guys in there like Keon would have won the game. DC played Cardwell who was a stud on the pick and roll. Monk was very bad on D. Lavine was ok, DDR was ok but not Monk
Click to expand...

Monk did try more towards the end but with no real backline or cohesion in terms of team D he was a sitting duck in POA. Even in the highlights you could see the Suns gameplan was to attack him regardless of who had the ball for the Suns. Monks off ball defense is actually somewhat decent but he can't be on the ball if they're serious.
 
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