Keep it or trade it?

[swisshh]

I hope Leonard develops a jumpshot so he's more balanced, but Leonard is a guy who can produce with being given shots. The fear with Hamilton is that he will want shots, and that he may not develop to be a lockdown guy like Leonard could be.

If you get Danny Granger, its fine that he needs shots because he has the league respect to get shots. He'd be the most established all-star type player on the team. If you get a rookie like Granger that wants Granger shots then that won't work, because he's a rookie and nobody is going to go along with that.

 

[bajaden]

To be fearful that a guy that is a good scorer in college, because his team wanted him to score, will want shots is one thing. And a lot less fearful than hoping that a guy that doesn't really have a jumpshot, will become a good shooter. Thats like saying, that one guy has something the other doesn't. And your hopeful that the one that does, doesn't over use it, but that the one that doesn't, will be able to obtain what the other guy already has.

Now I'm not a mind reader! So I can't tell you, or anyone whats going through Hamiltons mind. All I know is that he's a talented player, and that he's young. So you take that talent and try to mold it to fit your team. Thats an entirely different scenario than bringing in someone like a Steve Francis, or a Vince Carter, whose been in the league for 7 or 8 years and expecting them to become different players. No matter who you pick, there's going to be an element of risk involved. But you have to start them with a clean slate, and not predispose every negative possiblity you can think of.

I'm not saying don't consider the negatives. I'm saying don't assume them. Everyone assumes that Leonard will be a good defender. Why? Because he was a good defender in college. But why was he a good defender in college? Well, partly because he's a good athlete, and partly because of his limited offense, he applied himself more in that area. It was the best way he could help his team. That and rebounding. The exact opposite could be said about Hamilton. Both players did what was asked of them. But I don't think its fair to them to take what wasn't asked of them, and turn it into a permanent negative. Short term, perhaps! But long term, I think we have to think that their deficiences are correctable. And amongst the players we consider, equitable.

 

[Kingster]

Hamilton seemed very vanilla to me. Kemba Walker is >> Hamilton imo. Makes much more of an impact on the game.

 

[pshn80]

Keep it or trade it? I didn't vote because either answer is fine with me. I think we have an experienced leader to oversee the decision making here and that is what it takes. Look at what choices there are at the time and pick a direction to go. We need lots on this team so good luck on getting good choices and move.

 

[Shabazz916]

draft some1 who will be able to play some D and handle the ball and set up ppl. with a high basketball I.Q.

 

[Gary]

Hamilton seemed very vanilla to me. Kemba Walker is >> Hamilton imo. Makes much more of an impact on the game.

Hamilton fits better than Walker though (I do like Walker as well). You get too many guys that control the ball and then you have a bunch of players fighting for the ball. Don't know who we would be better with though because they are completely differnt players.

 

[Kingster]

Hamilton fits better than Walker though (I do like Walker as well). You get too many guys that control the ball and then you have a bunch of players fighting for the ball. Don't know who we would be better with though because they are completely differnt players.

As I've said before, Kemba doesn't need to control the ball in order to be effective. He moves very well without the ball. He played without the ball for considerable periods of time at UCONN.

Look at OKC last night against Dallas. When they lost their third ballhandler in Harden they went right down the tubes. You need guys in this league that can penetrate at will and get their own (as well as others) shots. The more versatility you have on offense or defense, the better. Also, Tyreke has huge upside potential in his off-the-ball game. It's going to be up to him and his work ethic to determine if that potential is finally realized. There is certainly nothing in his athletic talent that would limit his off-the-ball offense.

 

[bajaden]

Hamilton seemed very vanilla to me. Kemba Walker is >> Hamilton imo. Makes much more of an impact on the game.

Whereas Walker handles the ball most of the time, its a lot easier to make an impact on the game. That said, Hamilton led his team in scoring and barely lost the rebound battle to Tristan Thompson 7.8 boards to 7.7 rebounds. While his defense was at time erratic, when challenged, he did play good defense. In every meeting with Harrison Barnes, Hamilton made life miserable for him.

Don't get me wrong, I like Barnes, but Hamilton did almost every night what everyone was expecting out of Barnes. Hamilton proved he could create his own shot, while Barnes didn't really start producing until Kendall Marshall was switched to the starting PG position. Now some of Barnes improvement was because he finally had someone that got him the ball. And some was because Marshall also got him some easy baskets.

At the same time Hamilton was stuck with Balbay at the point. And while Balbay is very fierce competitor, he has absolutely no offense. So esentially, just about every time he passed the ball to Hamilton, Balbays defender would switch to Hamilton creating a double team. Now I'll be the first to admit that sometime he didn't handle the double very well. There were times when he got frustrated and forced shots he shouldn't have. But countless times he would come off a pick only to run into Balbay's defender. Amazingly he made a lot of those forced shots. But he shouldn't have taken them anyway.

As for comparing Hamilton to Walker. They play different positions and they have to judged on how they perform on that basis. Walker is the better ballhandler, but he should be, playing the point. But Hamilton is a good ballhandler for the SF position. Both guys are good passers, and I'll give the edge to Walker, but once again, he's a point guard, he should be the better passer. Hamilton is the better shooter, shooting 38.5% from the three to Walkers 33%. And in case your wondering, they both took about the same amount of three's. While neither players overall shooting percentage is great. Hamilton at 44.0% and Walker at 42.8%, I would say that Walker missed more wide open shots than Hamilton, who is a terrific shooter when open. That why I'm critical of his forced shots. If he doesn't take those shots, his percentages would go up significantly.

Both guys are tough and aggressive players that aren't afraid of contact, and in my opinion, both guys are winners, for what thats worth. I think Walkers is the most dynamic in terms of appearance, with his speed and quickness, and cockyness on the court. But in terms of impacting their teams, I would give them both an "A".

 

[bajaden]

As I've said before, Kemba doesn't need to control the ball in order to be effective. He moves very well without the ball. He played without the ball for considerable periods of time at UCONN.

Look at OKC last night against Dallas. When they lost their third ballhandler in Harden they went right down the tubes. You need guys in this league that can penetrate at will and get their own (as well as others) shots. The more versatility you have on offense or defense, the better. Also, Tyreke has huge upside potential in his off-the-ball game. It's going to be up to him and his work ethic to determine if that potential is finally realized. There is certainly nothing in his athletic talent that would limit his off-the-ball offense.

Look, I like both guys. But at the moment, our biggest need is at the SF position. I totally see your point about another good ballhandler and passer. But at the moment, at the guard position that would be a luxury, while improving both those things along with defense at the SF position, is more of a necessity. So in my opinion, either player would help us, and add needed depth to the team. But my first concern is at the SF position. Which is something that may be addressed through freeagency.

 

[Gary]

Look, I like both guys. But at the moment, our biggest need is at the SF position. I totally see your point about another good ballhandler and passer. But at the moment, at the guard position that would be a luxury, while improving both those things along with defense at the SF position, is more of a necessity. So in my opinion, either player would help us, and add needed depth to the team. But my first concern is at the SF position. Which is something that may be addressed through freeagency.

Yah I love them both and would be happy with either one..

They are actually 1, 2 on my list.

1. Hamilton
2. Walker



The only reason it's that way is because we need a SF that can catch and shoot to bail out the guards that penetrate and kick out. Hamilton is the type of player that can catch and shoot and nail three after three like what Peja is doing in Dallas right now.

 

[dbfish]

Sixers fans on realgm still willing to do #7 and Casspi for Iggy and #16. Or Garcia and Casspi and #7 for Iggy (and no pick).

I would be willing to do #7 and Casspi for Iggy and #16. With #16 you might be able to pick up Keneth Faried or Jimmer if he's still there.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Look, I like both guys. But at the moment, our biggest need is at the SF position. I totally see your point about another good ballhandler and passer. But at the moment, at the guard position that would be a luxury, while improving both those things along with defense at the SF position, is more of a necessity. So in my opinion, either player would help us, and add needed depth to the team. But my first concern is at the SF position. Which is something that may be addressed through freeagency.

If we address the SF position in FA or via trade, I might lean slightly towards going after Walker. But I would not be upset if they drafted Hamilton in the same scenerio. Both bring something to the table that the Kings are looking for.

 

[Glenn]

If we address the SF position in FA or via trade, I might lean slightly towards going after Walker. But I would not be upset if they drafted Hamilton in the same scenerio. Both bring something to the table that the Kings are looking for.

I agree with where you are going with this and have always had trouble discussing draft picks in a vacuum that does not take into consideration about what we get in free agency or via trade. I understand we cannot know about the results of free agency but if the organization focuses on SF, that may change who we draft. No matter who we draft, someone will be sitting on the bench 4 deep that might not deserve to be there.

If we plan to acquire a vet SF, we can draft a guard which creates a log jam at the guard position. If we draft a SF too, we have a major log jam at SF. Even if we draft a big, we shove JT to the fourth position. In any case we come out just fine and I'll leave it up to Petrie to straighten out the variety of lineups we might end up with. We will need to trade some one who has value whether it is Beno, Casspi, JT (the least likely so far) or someone else. Who we trade for (almost has to be 2 for 1) and at what position, I don't have a clue. The easiest solution is to trade the pick and Casspi for Iggy as that solves a problem and creates the least problems.

There are other possibilities of course but in all instances, the Kings get better.

 

[bajaden]

I agree with where you are going with this and have always had trouble discussing draft picks in a vacuum that does not take into consideration about what we get in free agency or via trade. I understand we cannot know about the results of free agency but if the organization focuses on SF, that may change who we draft. No matter who we draft, someone will be sitting on the bench 4 deep that might not deserve to be there.

If we plan to acquire a vet SF, we can draft a guard which creates a log jam at the guard position. If we draft a SF too, we have a major log jam at SF. Even if we draft a big, we shove JT to the fourth position. In any case we come out just fine and I'll leave it up to Petrie to straighten out the variety of lineups we might end up with. We will need to trade some one who has value whether it is Beno, Casspi, JT (the least likely so far) or someone else. Who we trade for (almost has to be 2 for 1) and at what position, I don't have a clue. The easiest solution is to trade the pick and Casspi for Iggy as that solves a problem and creates the least problems.

There are other possibilities of course but in all instances, the Kings get better.

I'd rather just trade Casspi and not include the pick if possible. As I stated in another post, the 76'ers are looking to shed salary, and that means not taking back much salary. There are only a couple of teams that could absorb Iggys salary. So the 76'ers pickings are slim when they go shopping. In fact, we might be the only team interested in taking on his salary. If so, then we're sort of in the drivers seat if they're really serious.

As far as who we draft. If you determine that all the players are of equal ability and potential, then I think you lean hard toward drafting a SF, even if you might make a trade for Iggy. Then you wouldn't have to put the pressure of starting on Hamilton, if he's your choice, and you've really strengthened your bench. When Tyreke goes to the bench for a rest, you could move Iggy to the two, and insert Hamilton to play the three. Hamilton can play the two position as well, but his defense and ballhandling are more suited for the SF position.

I guess what I'm saying, is that if you can fill your need through the draft, do it, and don't depend on doing it through freeagency where there are no guarantees in advance.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd rather just trade Casspi and not include the pick if possible. As I stated in another post, the 76'ers are looking to shed salary, and that means not taking back much salary. There are only a couple of teams that could absorb Iggys salary. So the 76'ers pickings are slim when they go shopping. In fact, we might be the only team interested in taking on his salary. If so, then we're sort of in the drivers seat if they're really serious.

As far as who we draft. If you determine that all the players are of equal ability and potential, then I think you lean hard toward drafting a SF, even if you might make a trade for Iggy. Then you wouldn't have to put the pressure of starting on Hamilton, if he's your choice, and you've really strengthened your bench. When Tyreke goes to the bench for a rest, you could move Iggy to the two, and insert Hamilton to play the three. Hamilton can play the two position as well, but his defense and ballhandling are more suited for the SF position.

I guess what I'm saying, is that if you can fill your need through the draft, do it, and don't depend on doing it through freeagency where there are no guarantees in advance.

Unfortunately I don't think Omri alone is realistic on several levels. Amongst other things it would be a PR disaster, and too easy an offer to beat. Cleveland just offered the #4 for Gay apparently, and were turned down. The #7 would logically be the cost, and in all reality if you are getting Iggy back its expendable. You'd rather have it of course, but you are in essence "picking" Iggy, which in this draft would be a very nice haul.

 

[whozit]

Unfortunately I don't think Omri alone is realistic on several levels. Amongst other things it would be a PR disaster, and too easy an offer to beat. Cleveland just offered the #4 for Gay apparently, and were turned down. The #7 would logically be the cost, and in all reality if you are getting Iggy back its expendable. You'd rather have it of course, but you are in essence "picking" Iggy, which in this draft would be a very nice haul.

You are right it might be a PR disaster, but that's not the Kings' problem. If one of the few teams with the cap room wants to beat the offer, so be it. How valuable is that cap room to them?

 

[Bricklayer]

You are right it might be a PR disaster, but that's not the Kings' problem. If one of the few teams with the cap room wants to beat the offer, so be it. How valuable is that cap room to them?

It becomes the Kings problem in that Philly won't do it because its a PR disaster. And they don't think they are in a rebuild. They are trying to move forward and build upon their piddly little playoff showing this year, so its not a salary dump sort of situation.

 

[Sluggah]

I'm on the Iggy bandwagon now. 7 + Casspi for 16 + Iggy please.

 

[kingsboi]

I'm not sure why everybody here wants Iguodala so bad. I thought what we wanted from our SF position, besides defense which I know AI is a good defender, but he's just a terrible three point shooter so I don't see how he would really space the floor much in this offense. I'm not about to hop on the Iguodala bandwagon, plus his contract is pretty big. I know we have the cap space to absorb his contract plus resign our guys but if I'm going to trade our pick plus assets for a SF it will be for Rudy Gay and I am sure he is not available so that point is moot. If a trade can't be done to get the SF that the team needs, I am perfectly fine with drafting one in this years draft and leaving it at that.

 

[rainmaker]

I'm not sure why everybody here wants Iguodala so bad. I thought what we wanted from our SF position, besides defense which I know AI is a good defender, but he's just a terrible three point shooter so I don't see how he would really space the floor much in this offense. I'm not about to hop on the Iguodala bandwagon, plus his contract is pretty big. I know we have the cap space to absorb his contract plus resign our guys but if I'm going to trade our pick plus assets for a SF it will be for Rudy Gay and I am sure he is not available so that point is moot. If a trade can't be done to get the SF that the team needs, I am perfectly fine with drafting one in this years draft and leaving it at that.

I actually think AK47 would be a better fit. Iggy may be more realistic though, because he doesn't have a choice in the matter, and Philly wants to move him. We could throw a good amount at AK though.

He's a much better off the ball player than Iggy. Very good, veteran defender. Good passer in the half court. Very good a cutting to the basket and finding gaps off the ball. I just see him fitting in better, although I do like Iggy as well. Looking at what Cousins will become in a few years, I also think AK will be a better fit for playing off a dominant big with the skills Cousins has.

But looking at AK's shooting %'s this year, he shot 75% from the floor on jumshots in crunch time, meaning a 5 pt game in th 4th or OT, and 83% of those were assisted. He's a very good spot up, catch & shoot player.

I guess all those that work with Hornacek payed off.

 

[ParniValjak]

I'm not sure why everybody here wants Iguodala so bad. I thought what we wanted from our SF position, besides defense which I know AI is a good defender, but he's just a terrible three point shooter so I don't see how he would really space the floor much in this offense. I'm not about to hop on the Iguodala bandwagon, plus his contract is pretty big. I know we have the cap space to absorb his contract plus resign our guys but if I'm going to trade our pick plus assets for a SF it will be for Rudy Gay and I am sure he is not available so that point is moot. If a trade can't be done to get the SF that the team needs, I am perfectly fine with drafting one in this years draft and leaving it at that.

Correction: Igoudala is an elite defender. He provides more ball handling, passing and ability to create for himself and others. Sure he is not a great shooter but he brings far too much of the other things to just say he is not good enough for us.

Next season we will have Thornton for the whole year. Hopefully, Evans improves his jump shot and if you have enough shooters on the bench to complement the rest of the line up, it will be enough!

Memphis had a pretty good play off showing despite being one of the worst, if not the worst long range shooting teams in the league.

With Igoudala, Thornton and Reke we can throw all sorts different looks and combinations at the opposition, both offensively and defensively!

 

[FaStRmAn]

OK, so here we are with another lousy draft pick. No franchise changers in this draft, which is why I am VERY surprised we did not get a top 2! I guess that Joe and Gavin didnt have the money to pony up for a top 3 pick. I wonder what Cleveland had to do to have 2 picks that are better than ours? Do they get special treatment just because of the Lebron DECISION? Sure looks fishy to mee!!

 

[Spike]

OK, so here we are with another lousy draft pick. No franchise changers in this draft, which is why I am VERY surprised we did not get a top 2! I guess that Joe and Gavin didnt have the money to pony up for a top 3 pick. I wonder what Cleveland had to do to have 2 picks that are better than ours? Do they get special treatment just because of the Lebron DECISION? Sure looks fishy to mee!!

The Conspiracy Theory thread is this way.

 

[ESP47]

Correction: Igoudala is an elite defender. He provides more ball handling, passing and ability to create for himself and others. Sure he is not a great shooter but he brings far too much of the other things to just say he is not good enough for us.

Next season we will have Thornton for the whole year. Hopefully, Evans improves his jump shot and if you have enough shooters on the bench to complement the rest of the line up, it will be enough!

Memphis had a pretty good play off showing despite being one of the worst, if not the worst long range shooting teams in the league.

With Igoudala, Thornton and Reke we can throw all sorts different looks and combinations at the opposition, both offensively and defensively!

If we can get Iguodala we instantly become more athletic, more explosive and much better on defense. Evans can D up, Thorton puts forth the effort and Iguodala makes it look easy. That would give us two ++ defenders in Dally and Iggy. One + defender in Evans and two average defenders in Cousins and Thorton. We'll have 4 big guys and one small explosive scorer in Thorton. I'd run that team out anyday. We'll be holding teams to 90pts a game.

 

[bajaden]

Unfortunately I don't think Omri alone is realistic on several levels. Amongst other things it would be a PR disaster, and too easy an offer to beat. Cleveland just offered the #4 for Gay apparently, and were turned down. The #7 would logically be the cost, and in all reality if you are getting Iggy back its expendable. You'd rather have it of course, but you are in essence "picking" Iggy, which in this draft would be a very nice haul.

Obviously what I want and what I get, are sometimes two different things. I would be OK with switching 1st round picks with them. Makes them look better from a PR point of view, and still gives us a decent player out of the draft. I do think they're in a little bit of a hard spot with Iggy. Most of the teams that would love to have him would have to trade equal salary to get him, and it looks as though Philly isn't interested in taking back significant salary.

So I do think they're limited somewhat in trying to move him. In the end, we could be not only their best option, but their only option. I'd certainly be on the phone with Petrie if I were them. Be nice to pull another Webber.

 

[kingsboi]

I actually think AK47 would be a better fit. Iggy may be more realistic though, because he doesn't have a choice in the matter, and Philly wants to move him. We could throw a good amount at AK though.

He's a much better off the ball player than Iggy. Very good, veteran defender. Good passer in the half court. Very good a cutting to the basket and finding gaps off the ball. I just see him fitting in better, although I do like Iggy as well. Looking at what Cousins will become in a few years, I also think AK will be a better fit for playing off a dominant big with the skills Cousins has.

But looking at AK's shooting %'s this year, he shot 75% from the floor on jumshots in crunch time, meaning a 5 pt game in th 4th or OT, and 83% of those were assisted. He's a very good spot up, catch & shoot player.

I guess all those that work with Hornacek payed off.

I'm not a fan of AK47 either. He might of improved his jumper but I'd rather take someone young for my SF position but that's just me. Also, I am sure this will be Andrei's last contract and he might be looking for more than he's deserving of. Whenever we find our starting SF, I hope it's a SF who can spread the floor and shoot well from the perimeter but at the same time can get by on occassions and attack the rim. I might be asking for too much but I'll take the shooting SF's with decent defense rather than great defensive SF's with subpar shooting but that's just how I feel about it.

 

[kingsboi]

Correction: Igoudala is an elite defender. He provides more ball handling, passing and ability to create for himself and others. Sure he is not a great shooter but he brings far too much of the other things to just say he is not good enough for us.

Next season we will have Thornton for the whole year. Hopefully, Evans improves his jump shot and if you have enough shooters on the bench to complement the rest of the line up, it will be enough!

Memphis had a pretty good play off showing despite being one of the worst, if not the worst long range shooting teams in the league.

With Igoudala, Thornton and Reke we can throw all sorts different looks and combinations at the opposition, both offensively and defensively!

Evans jumpshot is suspect and we can't expect it to come along anytime soon. If you add Iguodala to the starting unit he will not space the floor well at all IMO. He's a good slasher but that's what Tyreke does. Thornton also cuts often to the basket if his jumper is taken away. I like that Iggy is athletic and a terrific defender but I just don't see him fitting with this team IMO.

 

[funkykingston]

I'd actually rather offer Philly Casspi and NEXT year's pick, making it top 5 protected or so. Next year's draft should be considerably stronger but if the Kings make a substantial leap forward next season (assuming there is a seson) they'd be picking further back and have less need for more youngsters anyway.

 

[bajaden]

Evans jumpshot is suspect and we can't expect it to come along anytime soon. If you add Iguodala to the starting unit he will not space the floor well at all IMO. He's a good slasher but that's what Tyreke does. Thornton also cuts often to the basket if his jumper is taken away. I like that Iggy is athletic and a terrific defender but I just don't see him fitting with this team IMO.

One thing you didn't mention. Yes Thornton will take it to the basket on occasion. But its his ability to hit the outside shot that allows him to get to the basket. His defender can't play off of him, which makes it easier for him to beat his defender off the dribble and get to the basket. Good reason for Tyreke to improve his jumpshot.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not a fan of AK47 either. He might of improved his jumper but I'd rather take someone young for my SF position but that's just me. Also, I am sure this will be Andrei's last contract and he might be looking for more than he's deserving of. Whenever we find our starting SF, I hope it's a SF who can spread the floor and shoot well from the perimeter but at the same time can get by on occassions and attack the rim. I might be asking for too much but I'll take the shooting SF's with decent defense rather than great defensive SF's with subpar shooting but that's just how I feel about it.

You are still thiking wrong side of the ball. Fans always think offense offense offense, when its defense defense defense that wins big games. Being a good fit offensively is the gravy. Being a stud defensive anchor is the potatoes with Reke/Thornton and Cousins already here.