Jrue Holiday

[kingsnation]

Thanks for posting these. I like his determination for sure, especially when he said that he is aiming to be the number 1 pick. I like this kid and if we did pick him a 4, I wouldn't mind.

For me it's:

1. Lawson
2. Holiday
3. Jennings

 

[Jespher]

Looks like Holiday's shot was falling for his workout. That was a big knock on him coming into the draft. Defensively he's solid, and if he can also bring it on the offensive side, he could be a great steal with his length and athleticism.

 

[GeraldWallace#3]

His catch and shoot looked great. But his shot off the dribble was looking fugly.

 

[Kingster]

I think your being a little too harsh on him in your analogy. But thats OK if thats how you see it. I just don't think the kid really had a chance to show what he could do at the point position. Personally he never struck me as passive, but more like someone not comfortable playing out of position.

You could be right, and he simply won't get any better in the NBA, but many times the system a college player plays in can hide his talent. The opposite can be true as well, where serious flaws can be disguised by the system. Kevin Johnson springs to mind. Unless you watched every game he played at Cal, you might have thought that he was strictly a halfcourt type of player who was very methodical. But he was simply restricted by the system he played in.

I'm not saying thats the case with Holiday, but it could be part of it. We will find out at some point in the future.

When it comes to hype and actual performance the kid he reminds of going way back when was Daye (I think I got the spelling right). In high school he was supposed to be really great and had an unremarkable career in the NBA. Holliday just doesn't have the quickness or overall athleticism you want your elite pg to have. Now, maybe he can be a good, but not a great combo-guard, but to me that's going out on a limb after one year in college. He should have stayed in school.

This thing about the "system" hindering him is such a huge cop-out. UCLA was the PERFECT system for him, because he is not a great fast-break point guard who is going to destroy other teams on the break. If he's going to succeed, it's going to be with a structured offensive team like Detroit: a grind-it-out in your face physical defensive guard, who is not close to spectacular in his offense, but eventually can be productive.

 

[Kingster]

Looks like Holiday's shot was falling for his workout. That was a big knock on him coming into the draft. Defensively he's solid, and if he can also bring it on the offensive side, he could be a great steal with his length and athleticism.

He could be a great steal at #23. I hope to God it's not at #4.

 

[asakkings]

UCLA was a hinderance to Russel Westbrook because he is a fastbreak PG and he was also playing out of position, Holiday should have been the perfect fit in the defense heavy system. If we take Holiday with the 4th pick it would be a travesty.

 

[nbrans]

UCLA was a hinderance to Russel Westbrook because he is a fastbreak PG and he was also playing out of position, Holiday should have been the perfect fit in the defense heavy system. If we take Holiday with the 4th pick it would be a travesty.

Yeah, I agree with this. Everyone acts like Holiday didn't have his chances -- he did have chances. He wasn't a great fastbreaker and he doesn't break down defenses because he doesn't have a quick first step. If he's going to succeed it's going to be in a half court situation -- which is precisely the situation he was in. He was an inconsistent shooter, and his good passes and assists were mainly good entry passes into the post, not from breaking down the defense and creating opportunities. In the tournament he looked pretty good against VCU (pretty good for Holiday being a whopping 13 points on 5-12 shooting), and then came right back with a major stinker against Nova.

I honestly, honestly don't get the hype with Holiday. He's at the bottom of my list when it comes to point guard prospects.

 

[Dreadnought]

Does anyone else feel like Jrue is for sure going to be picked at number 4? The Kings have been putting his name everywhere, whether it's on their front page website or his college highlights on YouTube.

 

[kennadog]

Does anyone else feel like Jrue is for sure going to be picked at number 4? The Kings have been putting his name everywhere, whether it's on their front page website or his college highlights on YouTube.

He's on the front page of the Kings website, because he's the first notable workout for the Kings

And don't be fooled by nice comments from GP. I've never seen him give the media anything but generally positive comments about players they workout. He just usually picks out some positive things he can say.

 

[CaAllDay]

nice post.... #4 uhhhhh i dunno jus yet bout him remember how westbrook jumped in last years draft.

im still thinking jennings with the 4, clark or daye with 23, mills or chritsmas with 31

 

[gunks]

I say we go all out with PG prospects this draft.

Jennings with 4 (or Rubio, hah)...Maybe trade up a lil bit to nab Holiday (23 + Greene?).

We'll hopefully hit with one of em.

 

[Amory]

I really like Holiday. He seems like a good player from what I have seen (which isn't a lot, i admit).

 

[wonjaeyou]

Man, his shot off the dribble looks UGLY. He's not worth 4th pick. I don't mind with 23rd.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Yeah, I forgot to mention the system--UCLA's system evens out the usage rate and their team was pretty deep this year so Holliday couldn't do much, and for a freshman he's humble, quite intelligent and seems willing to learn--those are all points in his favor. Assuming that he pans out, his skillset as a ballhandling guard who can play defense on two positions is fairly nice as well (he's not quite there yet). And, it seems like he's the type of guy who could potentially markedly improve with another year or so in college, because of his character.

But when it comes down to it, I don't know why GMs want to reward him like this by drafting him the lottery. It's not like a Russell Westbrook case--Westbrook actually put up legitimate stats and had elite NBA athleticism on top of the defensive potential, and really inched his way up the boards during the stretch run--Holliday put up poor stats for an NBA prospect, has average athleticism and can only rely on his defense as his real saving grace because the other factors are such unknowns.

As for the point skills, there's obviously potential here, but as I said before, he's shown himself to be a fairly poor offensive player at UCLA, and while he's a fairly good passer for SG standards he's just very average for PG standards. The system might be pissing him off, because despite having an open road in terms of usage rate at UCLA next year, he's still leaning towards the draft--so I have a feeling that his passing might be better than he's letting on. So the passing might improve as he gains confidence, gets better teammates and plays in a more open system that the NBA presents, but between some turnover problems and the lack of a good jumper I think he's going to have some problems developing this.

I have a feeling scouts want to draft him, as I said before, because of what he did in high school, because of his versatility/defense combination, because they may think that he can make a marked improvement by playing on the fly in the NBA. But personally I think that's the wrong way to draft, and he should be going at the teens in the most--I still see him as a systems player with an average ceiling at best, and he still hasn't hit half of that ceiling with the stats he's putting up.

 

[Showtime]

Let's not forget a guy by the name of Douby who impressed GP in his workout, only to be picked over Rondo...

 

[NME]

Let's not forget a guy by the name of Douby who impressed GP in his workout, only to be picked over Rondo...

Let's forget. Please.

 

[asakkings]

At UCLA last year I would see Jrue get the ball in a set play where he would have an open jumper but instead of taking that shot he passed it to someone else which messed up the offense many times. Even if he was playing out of position he has to shoot the ball especially if he is playing as a SG. I question his confidence.

 

[CruzDude]

Like a lot of you all, I have waffled on Jrue and kinda put him down the list. However, with his workout yesterday and the May 18 writeup in ESPNs mock draft, I now see him in the top 8 and it might be a stretch at 4 but who else left there is something the Kings need as much as an aggressive PG???

" In a workout setting, Holiday looks much more like the player NBA scouts fell in love with when he was in high school. The first thing you notice about Holiday is his size. He was measured at 6-foot-4 in shoes and 205 pounds. That's terrific for a point guard. He also has a nice frame and should get stronger as his body matures. Still just 18 years old, he's the youngest player in my top 20."

Then there are his Positives and Negatives, updated as of May 18 as well by ESPN:

+
6-8 wing span, quick first step, aggressive on both ends of the floor, ball hawk on defense, good floor vision, excellent BB IQ, good rebounder and (my input) a year in the Pac-10

-
Not explosive, sometimes overly aggressive on defense (that is bad??), lacks great ball handling skills......

And being only 18 he has 2-3 years to be a really good PG if he gets decent playing time as a rookie.

I like him and he is in my top 2-3 for #4.

 

[Gary]

I would definitely use a #23 on Jrue. Basically if HS kids were allowed to come out after HS still he would have been a top 5 pick last year. That's how good he was in HS.

He got the crappy task of being a PG playing SG having to guard the opposing teams best offensive player (PG/SG/SF).

Also it was rumored that Collison didn't come out last year because he felt his draft position was hurt because of playing with Love, and Westbrook. Supposedly he felt if he had a whole season where he could "be the man" he would greatly increase his draft position. So he controlled the ball except in some fast break situations. I feel Jrue is better than Collison is right now, and I think his upside is MUCH greater than anyone in the 20's.

 

[nbrans]

I would definitely use a #23 on Jrue. Basically if HS kids were allowed to come out after HS still he would have been a top 5 pick last year. That's how good he was in HS.

He got the crappy task of being a PG playing SG having to guard the opposing teams best offensive player (PG/SG/SF).

Also it was rumored that Collison didn't come out last year because he felt his draft position was hurt because of playing with Love, and Westbrook. Supposedly he felt if he had a whole season where he could "be the man" he would greatly increase his draft position. So he controlled the ball except in some fast break situations. I feel Jrue is better than Collison is right now, and I think his upside is MUCH greater than anyone in the 20's.

No way. He may have more potential (personally I disagree), but there is not a single facet of the game where he is currently better than Collison, and that includes defense (at least on PGs), outside shooting, dribbling, driving, passing... Collison is ahead of him in every single category.

You could possibly make the argument that Holiday has more potential because he's bigger and the better leaper, but there is absolutely no way you could look at that UCLA team and say that Holiday is better. Collison carried that team. Shipp came next. Holiday was the third guy.

And I'll say it again -- it wasn't for lack of opportunities. He can't create for himself and others. How in the heck does that make him better than Collison?

 

[asakkings]

Holiday wasnt even the third option, that went to Dragovic in the middle of the year.

 

[nbrans]

Holiday wasnt even the third option, that went to Dragovic in the middle of the year.

And Aboya at times too. I was being generous in calling him the third option.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I mentioned some things I liked about Jrue's game earlier in the thread but after reading some responses here I have to disagree with some of the things that have been said.

First, I dont think Jrue was given the chance to display what he is capable of. Do you draft a player because of this though? I wouldnt. I watched about 7-10 UCLA games this year, and a number of times ( in the original draft thread ) I mentioned that I wanted no part of anyone on that team .. that team under acheived big time... but after really digging deaper into that teams problems, Jrue wasnt one of them. I HATED how they used him .. They didnt use him to create shots for other players, they made him create his own shots, which honestly at this point in his career he cant seem to do. Either that or he'd recieve the ball at the tail end of the shot clock and have to become a chucker.

I just dont see how you can say a player got a fair amount of chances at his natual position when you had a more experienced and ( at that point in his career ) better player in Collision playing 30 mpg. Collision deserved that playing time .. he played good, and at times carried that team but you cant say Jrue doesnt have more upside... not to mention he is one of the younger players in the draft ( 3 years younger that Collision .. I think)


I think an interesting debate is Holiday vs. Jennings. I dont think you can say Jennings had a better season in Europe then Jrue did at UCLA. Jennings had better numbers, but when you consider the fact that both players were playing behind older and more experienced players, I find it hard to say one is better than the other at this point.

Im not saying take Jrue number 4, but I dont think it would be a colossal mistake either considering whats out there right now .. we certainly dont need Harden or Hill .. maybe we trade down ... idk...


For what its worth, I present MKF's point guard draft board.

1) Rubio
2,3) Im torn between Curry and Jennings ... I really think Curry is getting over looked.
4) Holiday
5) Johnnnnnny Flynnn

 

[Dreadnought]

Jrue would be an excellent pick at #23, maybe Collison at 31. I'm a little more biased towards UCLA players. I too would rather go with Jennings or gamble with Derozan if Rubio is gone.

 

[Vlade4GM]

It's very doubtful he's there at 23. I wish people wouldn't get their hopes up.

 

[Vlade4GM]

While I think Holiday has better athleticism and ball handling than he showed in college, he sitll played poorly and casted doubt on a lot of his abilities coming out of high school. Jennings, while raw and lacking some maturity (in his game), he has clearly shown excellent athleticism and ball handling aiblity, as well as creative passing ability. I believe in Holiday's potential, but Jennings upside is more clear than Holiday's is.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I HATED how they used him .. They didnt use him to create shots for other players, they made him create his own shots, which honestly at this point in his career he cant seem to do. Either that or he'd recieve the ball at the tail end of the shot clock and have to become a chucker.

I just dont see how you can say a player got a fair amount of chances at his natual position when you had a more experienced and ( at that point in his career ) better player in Collision playing 30 mpg. Collision deserved that playing time .. he played good, and at times carried that team but you cant say Jrue doesnt have more upside... not to mention he is one of the younger players in the draft ( 3 years younger that Collision .. I think)

Wait, so you are saying that you cannot expect someone you would take with the fourth pick in the draft to be able to create his own shot in college? We're not talking about a rookie struggling in the NBA, this is college ball. If Holliday cannot create his own shot there, he's not going to accomplish anything in the NBA.

What I don't like about Jrue is that he did not stand out at all this year. In all the UCLA games I watched this year, Jrue just never made an impact. You really did not even notice he was on the court. Last year Westbrook played the same role alongside Collison and still looked amazing. Even if he made mistakes he constantly beat his man off the dribble and got into the lane. His biggest problem was his decision making once he did that. Holliday did not show any of that this year and was not even nearly the defender that Westbrook was.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

He's on the front page of the Kings website, because he's the first notable workout for the Kings

And don't be fooled by nice comments from GP. I've never seen him give the media anything but generally positive comments about players they workout. He just usually picks out some positive things he can say.

Agree 100%. I have never heard Petrie say anything bad about a player after a workout. He keeps it classy. I'm not buying too much into Holliday at 4 right now.

 

[VF21]

I've merged the two threads about Jrue since they seemed to be paralleling each other...

As far as Holiday goes as a potential acquisition for the Kings, if we cannot manage to get Rubio I wouldn't have a problem with us snagging Holiday. To me it still remains about need, which is I know very contrary to the always popular BPA philosophy.

If you go to the store because you need tomatoes and onions to complete your salad, you don't buy more lettuce... especially if you just bought lettuce the last time you were at the store ...even if it is really good lettuce.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Wait, so you are saying that you cannot expect someone you would take with the fourth pick in the draft to be able to create his own shot in college? We're not talking about a rookie struggling in the NBA, this is college ball. If Holliday cannot create his own shot there, he's not going to accomplish anything in the NBA.

What I don't like about Jrue is that he did not stand out at all this year. In all the UCLA games I watched this year, Jrue just never made an impact. You really did not even notice he was on the court. Last year Westbrook played the same role alongside Collison and still looked amazing. Even if he made mistakes he constantly beat his man off the dribble and got into the lane. His biggest problem was his decision making once he did that. Holliday did not show any of that this year and was not even nearly the defender that Westbrook was.

Well, first, I never said I would take Jrue #4, Im just saying it wouldnt be as bad as some here are trying to make it look. They wanted Holiday to play shooting guard .. He failed at creating his own shots at a position he shouldnt be playing, And please dont tell me players cant learn or improve on things at the next level, if that was the case there would be no such thing as a bust and no such thing as potential... players would be what they are. Holiday is young, he can improve...


I cant stand people compairing him to Westbrook. Westbrook got plenty of time to prove himself two years ago, are you forgetting that Collision got injured and missed a good amount of time? All these things considered, Westbrook only averaged 12ppg, 4 rebs and 4 ast ( as a sophmore, btw)... not exactly lighting it up.

Jrue stats - 8.5 ppg - 3.7 ast - 3.8 reb ... again, nothing special, but out of position and a freshman.

Look, for the hundreth time, im not saying take him, im just saying he's getting killed in here and I dont think its completely fair .. and I dont think its right to praise Jennings and slam Jrue .. NOT saying you were , but some have.