Jaren Jackson Jr

#31
I really like JJJ too. Blocks shots at a high rate and can shoot. Like all of these guys he has issues though. Rebounding rate is a little low and more concerning is he fouls a lot. Bamba blocks just as many shots without fouling. But then again jjj can shoot better than Bamba.

One more thing about jjj that I've read is that he barks at officials too much. Never something I like to read after our recent past.
 
#32
JJJ is worthy of going 2nd, he's good enough to go 1st in most drafts.

I have him over Bagley and Doncic on my board. He's got immense 2way potential. Been following him for a while, he played several HS games that were broadcast on ESPN.

He fits with all the current bigs. He was an absolute highlight factory all year, he can block 2 shots a game in the NBA he's EXTREMELY athletic. Immense potential on the oboards.

Msu's defense was night and day when he was off and on the court.

he can shoot and he's actually capable of some jaw dropping face-up drives. He's gonna make megabucks in the NBA and is a legit 4/5 who can start at either like an Anthony Davis.


Im a long time believer in his talents, i remember when he was listed at 6'9 and was ranked like 17th in the HS class and thinking A) he looks 6'11 B) looks like a lotto pick. Confident kid, he was on La Lumiere, the #1 ranked HS in the nation at the time and whenever they were up big, which was often, he always looked like he was just toying with the opponents and would run to the corners and drill 3's.

Yes, his shooting releae is super funky, i wouldnt change it tho, works for him
 
#33
Giles and Skal would be the PF and Jackson the C in those lineups. WCS and JJJ more interchangeable

In all these scenarios where the pick is a big and not Doncic i'd advocate signing Will Barton to start at SF, theres several directions they could go in the 2nd rd too, Kevin Huerter would be ideal imo

JJJ is the type of player who saves you space on the depth chart.
 
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#34
Giles and Skal would be the PF and Jackson the C in those lineups. WCS and JJJ more interchangeable

In all these scenarios where the pick is a big and not Doncic i'd advocate signing Will Barton to start at SF, theres several directions they could go in the 2nd rd too, Kevin Huerter would be ideal imo

JJJ is the type of player who saves you space on the depth chart.
I'm not as high on JJJ as you are but put me down in the Will Barton fan club. Underrated, versatile player that I'd love to have here.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#36
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/5...t-2018-profile-scouting-report-michigan-state

I tracked down the above article from the twitter feed noted above. It is very informative, and I must admit that even though I try not to get too excited over video clips, the one with him taking a defender off the dribble at the 3 point line is pretty darned impressive. The Kings just have to look seriously at this guy. He's NOT a one-dimensional shot blocker like Ibaka. He has more fluidity than Ibaka ever had. He definitely can become a very good, maybe even an extremely good, two-way player in the NBA.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#38
In regards to JJJ, much has been made of his getting into foul trouble and thereby limiting his minutes on the court. I agree that it was frustrating this past season watching him sit on the bench for half the game. Some may think that this is a legit reason to pass on him. Anyway, saw this posted on twitter today and decided to share it.

"Freshman fouls per 40 David Robinson 8.4 Hakeem 6.4 Mutombo 6.4 JJJ 5.9 Embiid 5.8 Shaq 5.4 Imagine not wanting to draft one of these guys because he fouled too much as a teenager"

Maybe that will put this foul thing into perspective. To be honest, I'm surprised there isn't more noise about Jaren, who I think is one of the top three players in this draft.
 
#39
In regards to JJJ, much has been made of his getting into foul trouble and thereby limiting his minutes on the court. I agree that it was frustrating this past season watching him sit on the bench for half the game. Some may think that this is a legit reason to pass on him. Anyway, saw this posted on twitter today and decided to share it.

"Freshman fouls per 40 David Robinson 8.4 Hakeem 6.4 Mutombo 6.4 JJJ 5.9 Embiid 5.8 Shaq 5.4 Imagine not wanting to draft one of these guys because he fouled too much as a teenager"

Maybe that will put this foul thing into perspective. To be honest, I'm surprised there isn't more noise about Jaren, who I think is one of the top three players in this draft.
I think the reason there isn't more noise about jjj is that a lot of people have Bamba slightly over him. Since they're similar types of players the focus is on your top choice between the two. I like JJJ a lot too, can easily see him being a Serge Ibaka type. It's just that Bamba and those crazy physical tools is tough to over look.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#40
I think the reason there isn't more noise about jjj is that a lot of people have Bamba slightly over him. Since they're similar types of players the focus is on your top choice between the two. I like JJJ a lot too, can easily see him being a Serge Ibaka type. It's just that Bamba and those crazy physical tools is tough to over look.
I see people making that comparison, but I think Jaren is far more skilled right now than Bamba. He has better handles, and better instincts, particularly on offense. To be honest, I think Jaren is a more fluid athlete than Bamba, and he has a better per 40 shotblocking average as well. Jaren is far better when it comes to switches defensively. None of this is mean't to knock Bamba, but I just think that Jaren is more advanced overall by comparison.

Then there's the stretch the floor thing, where everyone touts Bamba's ability to shoot the ball. They have a saying in Mexico where I live. "Look good, no work". Right now, that's a definition of Bamba's three point shot. Then you have Jaren, whose shot doesn't look beautiful, but it goes in. I'm a results guy, and Jaren got results. Not saying that Bamba won't eventually be a good shooter. But I do think a person has to evaluate how much of his judgement is based on actual results, and how much on wishful thinking. Because to some extent, that's what potential is.
 
#41
I think the reason there isn't more noise about jjj is that a lot of people have Bamba slightly over him. Since they're similar types of players the focus is on your top choice between the two. I like JJJ a lot too, can easily see him being a Serge Ibaka type. It's just that Bamba and those crazy physical tools is tough to over look.
It is easy to get caught up in Bamba's length, but Jackson is a better shot blocker and defender right now. I know some will want to forecast Bamba as having more potential, but I would ask why? Bamba is longer, but Jackson is more athletic IMO. Jackson is also 18.7 yrs old, while Bamba is 20.1 yrs old. That's right, Bamba is a year and a half older than Jackson. Yet Jackson has much better awareness on defense and is a much better offensive player. I would think that the is the one with the more potential.
 
#42
It is easy to get caught up in Bamba's length, but Jackson is a better shot blocker and defender right now. I know some will want to forecast Bamba as having more potential, but I would ask why? Bamba is longer, but Jackson is more athletic IMO. Jackson is also 18.7 yrs old, while Bamba is 20.1 yrs old. That's right, Bamba is a year and a half older than Jackson. Yet Jackson has much better awareness on defense and is a much better offensive player. I would think that the is the one with the more potential.
Blocks per/40 and Fouls per/40

Bamba - 4.9 / 3.4
Jackson - 5.5 / 5.9
Giles - 2.3 / 7.7 :oops:

I guess it just depends on what you're looking for. Bamba was more of a typical rim defender whereas JJJ was chasing guys around and jumping all over the place to get his blocks. I believe Bamba has a 6" larger wingspan which goes a long way in not having to over commit on defense because if their stats stayed consistent, Jackson is going to give up a few more free throws a game to get that extra half a block and that's just not worth it.

Obviously that's not the whole story because JJJ is going to excel on switches and has more offense to his game. I personally don't see JJJ ever becoming a big offensive threat so I have him down a ways on my list due to what I think is a low likelihood of him reaching his ceiling. I just think the mocks have him kind of overrated. I feel like he's a 7-10th pick but I can't see him being a cornerstone on a deep playoff team unless everything fell into place for him and he developed skills that we didn't even know he had.

I just threw Giles in there for the heck of it. I knew he fouled a lot in college but man I didn't realize it was by that large of a margin over a guy who most consider to have fouled way too much. Small sample size and his injury probably played a part in it but it'll be something to pay attention this this year.
 
#43
It is easy to get caught up in Bamba's length, but Jackson is a better shot blocker and defender right now. I know some will want to forecast Bamba as having more potential, but I would ask why? Bamba is longer, but Jackson is more athletic IMO. Jackson is also 18.7 yrs old, while Bamba is 20.1 yrs old. That's right, Bamba is a year and a half older than Jackson. Yet Jackson has much better awareness on defense and is a much better offensive player. I would think that the is the one with the more potential.
Jackson will be the better defender it just happens that Bamba is a workout warrior. But like you said Jackson has better instincts which you can’t teach, is way better in pick and roll coverage, and is an equal shot blocker than Bamba.

Add in Jackson is miles ahead of him on offense and you start to scratch your head on why a team would entertain drafting Bamba over Jackson
 
#44
Blocks per/40 and Fouls per/40

Bamba - 4.9 / 3.4
Jackson - 5.5 / 5.9
Giles - 2.3 / 7.7 :oops:

I guess it just depends on what you're looking for. Bamba was more of a typical rim defender whereas JJJ was chasing guys around and jumping all over the place to get his blocks. I believe Bamba has a 6" larger wingspan which goes a long way in not having to over commit on defense because if their stats stayed consistent, Jackson is going to give up a few more free throws a game to get that extra half a block and that's just not worth it.

Obviously that's not the whole story because JJJ is going to excel on switches and has more offense to his game. I personally don't see JJJ ever becoming a big offensive threat so I have him down a ways on my list due to what I think is a low likelihood of him reaching his ceiling. I just think the mocks have him kind of overrated. I feel like he's a 7-10th pick but I can't see him being a cornerstone on a deep playoff team unless everything fell into place for him and he developed skills that we didn't even know he had.

I just threw Giles in there for the heck of it. I knew he fouled a lot in college but man I didn't realize it was by that large of a margin over a guy who most consider to have fouled way too much. Small sample size and his injury probably played a part in it but it'll be something to pay attention this this year.
If you watched Jackson a lot, he didn't pick up most of his fouls going after blocks. He got a lot of them on stupid reach in fouls (easy to correct) and had a lotof offensive fouls the 1st half of the season (got better). He also picked up a lot of touch fouls that won't be called in the NBA IMO. I would also point outthat Mich St's defense was night and day with him on the court.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
#45
If you watched Jackson a lot, he didn't pick up most of his fouls going after blocks. He got a lot of them on stupid reach in fouls (easy to correct) and had a lotof offensive fouls the 1st half of the season (got better). He also picked up a lot of touch fouls that won't be called in the NBA IMO. I would also point outthat Mich St's defense was night and day with him on the court.
I agree for the most part except I would say that the stupid reach in fouls should be easy to correct but for whatever reason some players just can't seem to stop themselves. I hope that's not the case for Jackson because in every other way he looks like he's going to be a great player in the NBA.

If we pick anyone other than Ayton or Doncic, Jackson is the player who would make the most sense to me. I wouldn't totally agree with it, but I would at least respect the decision. He's the best defender in the draft and he's got a very intriguing mix of offensive skills. He's everything Bamba projects to be minus a few inches of reach and he's closer to reaching that potential than Bamba is. I can even see why someone would project him over Ayton and Doncic -- he's the one guy here that has not just good but elite two-way potential.

The only the thing that gives me pause is the question of why, if he's really the complete package and potentially the best player in the draft, he didn't produce at the level that Ayton, Bagley, and Trae Young did this year. Is he going to be one of those players that forever teases us with immense potential that they never quite seem to bring to the floor every night? That's why I don't have him #1. But he's very very impressive and one of my favorite players in this draft.
 
#46
I agree for the most part except I would say that the stupid reach in fouls should be easy to correct but for whatever reason some players just can't seem to stop themselves. I hope that's not the case for Jackson because in every other way he looks like he's going to be a great player in the NBA.

If we pick anyone other than Ayton or Doncic, Jackson is the player who would make the most sense to me. I wouldn't totally agree with it, but I would at least respect the decision. He's the best defender in the draft and he's got a very intriguing mix of offensive skills. He's everything Bamba projects to be minus a few inches of reach and he's closer to reaching that potential than Bamba is. I can even see why someone would project him over Ayton and Doncic -- he's the one guy here that has not just good but elite two-way potential.

The only the thing that gives me pause is the question of why, if he's really the complete package and potentially the best player in the draft, he didn't produce at the level that Ayton, Bagley, and Trae Young did this year. Is he going to be one of those players that forever teases us with immense potential that they never quite seem to bring to the floor every night? That's why I don't have him #1. But he's very very impressive and one of my favorite players in this draft.
I don't think he projects elite offensively because in order to be that you need to be able to create offensoe for yourself and others at a high level. He is a two way player though. I think he's a bit underrated on offensive creation for himself, but he doesn't have the skill to create for others which is rare for a big man anyway. He does project elite on defense though because he can guard the perimeter and the paint.

More on offense, he most definitely can flourish in an elite offense as a finisher. A big that can finish plays by making spot up threes, catching lobs, or just finishing off the pick and roll is a big deal.

This is why I have him as the #1 big man on my board. He projects the best defensively and he's the most capable of functioning in an elite offense.
 
#47
I agree for the most part except I would say that the stupid reach in fouls should be easy to correct but for whatever reason some players just can't seem to stop themselves. I hope that's not the case for Jackson because in every other way he looks like he's going to be a great player in the NBA.

If we pick anyone other than Ayton or Doncic, Jackson is the player who would make the most sense to me. I wouldn't totally agree with it, but I would at least respect the decision. He's the best defender in the draft and he's got a very intriguing mix of offensive skills. He's everything Bamba projects to be minus a few inches of reach and he's closer to reaching that potential than Bamba is. I can even see why someone would project him over Ayton and Doncic -- he's the one guy here that has not just good but elite two-way potential.

The only the thing that gives me pause is the question of why, if he's really the complete package and potentially the best player in the draft, he didn't produce at the level that Ayton, Bagley, and Trae Young did this year. Is he going to be one of those players that forever teases us with immense potential that they never quite seem to bring to the floor every night? That's why I don't have him #1. But he's very very impressive and one of my favorite players in this draft.
This is where I’m at. I’d prefer Luka, but would be pretty excited about getting JJJ. It would be a bold choice, for sure.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#48
Blocks per/40 and Fouls per/40

Bamba - 4.9 / 3.4
Jackson - 5.5 / 5.9
Giles - 2.3 / 7.7 :oops:

I guess it just depends on what you're looking for. Bamba was more of a typical rim defender whereas JJJ was chasing guys around and jumping all over the place to get his blocks. I believe Bamba has a 6" larger wingspan which goes a long way in not having to over commit on defense because if their stats stayed consistent, Jackson is going to give up a few more free throws a game to get that extra half a block and that's just not worth it.

Obviously that's not the whole story because JJJ is going to excel on switches and has more offense to his game. I personally don't see JJJ ever becoming a big offensive threat so I have him down a ways on my list due to what I think is a low likelihood of him reaching his ceiling. I just think the mocks have him kind of overrated. I feel like he's a 7-10th pick but I can't see him being a cornerstone on a deep playoff team unless everything fell into place for him and he developed skills that we didn't even know he had.

I just threw Giles in there for the heck of it. I knew he fouled a lot in college but man I didn't realize it was by that large of a margin over a guy who most consider to have fouled way too much. Small sample size and his injury probably played a part in it but it'll be something to pay attention this this year.
I wouldn't pay much attention to the foul rate by Giles. First he played limited minutes. And, he was told to make the most of those limited minutes, which mean't, you have five fouls to give, so don't be bashful out there. Giles basically stayed under the basket, rebounded and defended the basket. Also bear in mind, that he wasn't a 100% healthy at that time either. So take all those stats with a grain of salt.

As to Jaren, I'm not sure how you came to your conclusions. He's a better athlete than Bamba. He's more skilled than Bamba. He's a better shot blocker than Bamba, length aside!. He has a post game, which Bamba doesn't. He shot 39.6% from the three on 96 attempts, while Bamba shot 27.5% on 51 attempts. I'm not sure your saying you think Bamba will be a better player or not, but if so, why exactly, when Jaren's results are better and he a year and a half younger.

I mean you could be right and I like Bamba, but there are some things I can't ignore about him. All of them correctable, but there are some people who still think Marcus Smart will eventually be a good three pt shooter. I wouldn't put money down on that bet. It's very possible that both Bamba and Jackson become franchise players for their teams. Just in different ways. Mutombo was a franchise player of sorts but he was never a good offensive player. Still, he managed to put up 12 to 13 points a game for his career. Right now in Bamba, I see a more athletic version of Mutombo. That's not a bad thing!
 
#49
I was not even considering JJJ until watching the recently posted interview. Then began watching more clips on him and conclude he has fewer question marks then almost any other player considered. The fact we already have Skall, Giles, and Willi, also kept JJJ low on my list but its not like any of them have proved much.

Today my top three are Ayton, Donic then JJJ. My only concern with Donic is if he plans to play in the NBA this year. Sorry if I'm missing something but I have yet to hear that it's a guarantee.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#50
I agree for the most part except I would say that the stupid reach in fouls should be easy to correct but for whatever reason some players just can't seem to stop themselves. I hope that's not the case for Jackson because in every other way he looks like he's going to be a great player in the NBA.

If we pick anyone other than Ayton or Doncic, Jackson is the player who would make the most sense to me. I wouldn't totally agree with it, but I would at least respect the decision. He's the best defender in the draft and he's got a very intriguing mix of offensive skills. He's everything Bamba projects to be minus a few inches of reach and he's closer to reaching that potential than Bamba is. I can even see why someone would project him over Ayton and Doncic -- he's the one guy here that has not just good but elite two-way potential.

The only the thing that gives me pause is the question of why, if he's really the complete package and potentially the best player in the draft, he didn't produce at the level that Ayton, Bagley, and Trae Young did this year. Is he going to be one of those players that forever teases us with immense potential that they never quite seem to bring to the floor every night? That's why I don't have him #1. But he's very very impressive and one of my favorite players in this draft.
I'll try and answer your question if I can. First, Jackson played out of position a lot at Mich St.. On offense he played a majority of the time on the perimeter, which hurt his offensive rebounding, and didn't give him a lot of touches at the basket, or a lot of touches period. Why you ask, well because of Nick Ward, who had little to no game away from the basket. Personally, I would have brought Ward off the bench and started Jackson down low. But Ward was a sophmore, and Jackson a freshman, and he had to pay his dues. Stupid!

The other problem along with Ward, was Miles Bridges, who did play away from the basket a lot, but also scored at least half his points at the basket. So you can see how it would have gotten crowded at the basket if you also had Jackson down low. Ward is an OK player, but he's 6'9" whild Jackson is 6'11" with a huge wingspan. Logic tells you Jackson should have been the center. I would love to ask Izzo what the logic behind his decisions was. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I have little doubt that had Jackson been the center, his rebounding numbers would have gone up, as well as his points per game. While Ward is an Adonis like physical specimen, he's not near the athlete that Jackson is. The defensive plus/minus with Jackson is almost ridiculous, and yet he only played 22 minutes a game. Yes, sometimes foul trouble played into that. But there were games where Jackson started, and got sent to the bench 2 or 3 minutes into the game, for no apparent reason other than a whim of Izzo.

Personally I think Jackson was the best player on that Mich. St. team. I like Bridges, but he's not the player that Jackson is, nor does he have that kind of potential. So I would like to ask Izzo why did Bridges play over 30 minutes a game, and Jackson only 22 minutes a game. Jackson only averaged 6.6 shot attempts a game, of which 41% were three's. Bridges averaged 13.4 attempts per game and he took a hundred more three's than Jackson.

I'll admit that it's hard to get a read on Jackson. Limited minutes and limited touches and shots. You'd see a glimpse here and there of what he was capable of. Like the time on the right side outside the 3pt line when out of the blue he he put the ball on the floor, dribbled between his legs, did a crossover followed by a spin move and exploded to the basket for a dunk. For a moment, I was stunned. I had no idea he had that in his bag of tricks. But if you wern't watching that game, you'd never know. To me, he's truly the mystery man...
 
#52
I wouldn't pay much attention to the foul rate by Giles. First he played limited minutes. And, he was told to make the most of those limited minutes, which mean't, you have five fouls to give, so don't be bashful out there. Giles basically stayed under the basket, rebounded and defended the basket. Also bear in mind, that he wasn't a 100% healthy at that time either. So take all those stats with a grain of salt.

As to Jaren, I'm not sure how you came to your conclusions. He's a better athlete than Bamba. He's more skilled than Bamba. He's a better shot blocker than Bamba, length aside!. He has a post game, which Bamba doesn't. He shot 39.6% from the three on 96 attempts, while Bamba shot 27.5% on 51 attempts. I'm not sure your saying you think Bamba will be a better player or not, but if so, why exactly, when Jaren's results are better and he a year and a half younger.

I mean you could be right and I like Bamba, but there are some things I can't ignore about him. All of them correctable, but there are some people who still think Marcus Smart will eventually be a good three pt shooter. I wouldn't put money down on that bet. It's very possible that both Bamba and Jackson become franchise players for their teams. Just in different ways. Mutombo was a franchise player of sorts but he was never a good offensive player. Still, he managed to put up 12 to 13 points a game for his career. Right now in Bamba, I see a more athletic version of Mutombo. That's not a bad thing!
I think we are mainly in agreement here.

I personally think Bamba will be the better defender in the NBA but I think JJJ will be a more versatile defender and versatile offensive player.

Bamba has obvious comps to Gobert and I think JJJ will be more like a better shot blocking defensive version of Horford where he's going to be able to cover guys out on the perimeter well but still hold his own down low.

I don't think either guy is going to make a bunch of waves on the offensive end. Bamba will be a huge lob target and should be able to score 12-14ppg nightly just doing his best Capela/Deandre impression. JJJ is more versatile because he's shown he can shoot the 3 and has shown some post work and drives but all of those things have question marks. Will his odd shot translate? It should since his 3pt and FT percentages were high, but it's still in the back of everyone's minds. Will he be able to post up and drive efficiently enough to allow him to do it to punish teams or will he just clear the lane on offense and wait in the corner for the kick out? I didn't see enough out of his game on that end to be able to make any sort of educated guess on whether he's going to be able to do that. He's shown the ability to be more versatile but it's all been on the smaller sample size of things.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#53
I agree for the most part except I would say that the stupid reach in fouls should be easy to correct but for whatever reason some players just can't seem to stop themselves. I hope that's not the case for Jackson because in every other way he looks like he's going to be a great player in the NBA.
Yup. Reach ins are one of the dumb things players do that drive me the most insane. :)
 
#54
I think we are mainly in agreement here.

I personally think Bamba will be the better defender in the NBA but I think JJJ will be a more versatile defender and versatile offensive player.

Bamba has obvious comps to Gobert and I think JJJ will be more like a better shot blocking defensive version of Horford where he's going to be able to cover guys out on the perimeter well but still hold his own down low.

I don't think either guy is going to make a bunch of waves on the offensive end. Bamba will be a huge lob target and should be able to score 12-14ppg nightly just doing his best Capela/Deandre impression. JJJ is more versatile because he's shown he can shoot the 3 and has shown some post work and drives but all of those things have question marks. Will his odd shot translate? It should since his 3pt and FT percentages were high, but it's still in the back of everyone's minds. Will he be able to post up and drive efficiently enough to allow him to do it to punish teams or will he just clear the lane on offense and wait in the corner for the kick out? I didn't see enough out of his game on that end to be able to make any sort of educated guess on whether he's going to be able to do that. He's shown the ability to be more versatile but it's all been on the smaller sample size of things.
I think jjj's floor is Myles Turner.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#59
I disagree that Bamba is going to be a better defender than Jackson. Bamba's length will make him better in the paint, but when you factor in defense outside of the paint as well as inside, Jackson is going to be better overall because he's much more athletic, fluid, quick and instinctive to the ball. And what good is a lengthy interior defender if he can't score consistently inside? Opposing teams will just go small and Bamba will be forced to guard a much smaller guy at the 3 point line, negating his length on the interior. Unless a big can score on the interior, he just doesn't have nearly the value of days gone by.