I'm sorry coach smart what did you say?

[rainmaker]

The problem comes in the benching part. How do you tell MT, Tyreke, or Thomas that they've been benched for Donte Greene? How can Smart justify that without losing one of his best players. All three guys deserve to start ... All three guys will get much more pissed off being benched then starting out of position. The only guy who MIGHT take it ok is Tyreke, but I want Tyreke starting. Smart can't really win here. He's dammed if he benches one of them because they are all far better than there substitution, but he gets slammed for small balling it if he doesn't change the lineup.

Smart can remedy a lot of this with better in game substitutions. They were better last game, but for the most part they have been horrible. We are playing better with this lineup then we were with the Salmons SF lineup. We are keeping games close, then Smart pukes all over the substitution patterns and we lose in the fourth.

For instance, I remember a game against the Pistons a few weeks ago where Prince was killing us. If you can recognize that early on then Donte should be on him early and stay on him for most of the rest of the game. You can still get the guards their minutes just split it up a bit, but still let them start so you don't lose them.

Smart is in a really tough spot. He's still a new coach, he's still trying to get the players to trust him, and maybe he hasn't done a very good job of that with anyone aside from Cousins and Thomas, but benching one of those guards ... that's dangerous.

It is a tough situation, and Smart might lose someone by sending them to the bench. But right now he's losing Reke, so is standing pat worth it? And he might even lose Reke long term, as in the franchise driving him out. I know from his brothers tweets at the least they think Smarts use of him is highly questionable. I hate Reke at SF, but, I'd be able to stomach it more if he's more involved and getting more touches/plays run for him. Some act as if because he's a SF now it's completely on him to cut all over the court and find some way to pry the ball from IT/MT, or else it's just his fault for not getting it.

Look at how some of the better SF's are involved around the league. Constantly get the ball on the wings, coming off screens, various plays run for them-they're involved. Now, Reke does has to improve moving off the ball, but we're not running a great offense for that anyway. IT/MT make one or two passes, then shoot. They aren't looking for cutters. MT sure isn't. Often times when MT or IT gets it on the wing, Reke is the next pass, yet that next pass isn't coming. IT is good at keeping Cuz involved, but again, we're not running many cutters off Cuz. Every now and then we do, but not consistently. More often then not it's IT/Cuz clearing a side, dumping it in to Cuz and letting him go 1v1. Reke is baseline, and MT elbow extended. MT has to cut or clear out for Reke to even attempt to be involved. That's pretty basic.

If we ran a motion offense, it'd be different. If we ran plays for Reke as most teams do their SF's, it's be different. But often times Reke in the corner having to wait for MT to cut/clear from the wing. MT is usually elbow extended, Reke in the corner. Reke can't do much until MT clears across the court, or when he gets it, moves it to Reke every once in a while and cuts across the court. But that pass isn't coming, leaving MT with the ball at elbow extended, then Reke has to cut to the opposite corner to clear space. The offense isn't set up to have a PG, SG and SF involved.

And this doesn't even touch on defense.

 

[miltonap]

The problem comes in the benching part. How do you tell MT, Tyreke, or Thomas that they've been benched for Donte Greene? How can Smart justify that without losing one of his best players. All three guys deserve to start ... All three guys will get much more pissed off being benched then starting out of position. The only guy who MIGHT take it ok is Tyreke, but I want Tyreke starting. Smart can't really win here. He's dammed if he benches one of them because they are all far better than there substitution, but he gets slammed for small balling it if he doesn't change the lineup.

Smart can remedy a lot of this with better in game substitutions. They were better last game, but for the most part they have been horrible. We are playing better with this lineup then we were with the Salmons SF lineup. We are keeping games close, then Smart pukes all over the substitution patterns and we lose in the fourth.

For instance, I remember a game against the Pistons a few weeks ago where Prince was killing us. If you can recognize that early on then Donte should be on him early and stay on him for most of the rest of the game. You can still get the guards their minutes just split it up a bit, but still let them start so you don't lose them.

Smart is in a really tough spot. He's still a new coach, he's still trying to get the players to trust him, and maybe he hasn't done a very good job of that with anyone aside from Cousins and Thomas, but benching one of those guards ... that's dangerous.

hmmm that's actually a very good point. Sometimes players have to put themselves ahead of the team, however. I agree it's a terrible position to be in. If I were Smart, I would just sit down with the player who he would be benching (either MT or Reke) and just explain the situation with them. Obviously Reke would take it better. They can't hide the fact that we're not winning with this 3 guard lineup.

Another question you have to ask though, does Smart really see this as a problem like we do?? Does he realize that his small-ball mentality will not help us in the long run? His track record says no but maybe he'll change. Who knows? Do we want to take our chances?

 

[Glenn]

In fact, the dirty little truth is that with all the verbosity of Smart, all the conditioning of the players, all of the tweaking of lineups, and all of everything, we are still a losing team. In the W/L column, we are no better. Some fans are happier because at least we lose in an entertaining manner but in the end, so what? This is the team with one ROY, another being pushed as this year's ROY, and an all world center and it still loses.

I have my solutions but it requires the changes to be made by the GM and it requires spending some money. I think Smart has strengths and weaknesses but he was dealt a bad hand. He was given a dysfunctional set of guards, 2 1/2 bigs, and what else? Not much.

 

[ParniValjak]

I get this sinking feeling that Smart will ruin this team with his basketball philosophy. Sure the roster is not great as many of us flagged before the season started but rather than look for excuses or as some would like to put it, reasons, ask yourself this question, if someone like Gregg Popovich, JVG, Phil Jackson or even Nate McMillan, would he be playing same sort of line ups that Smart is playing?!

Would these guys be starting 3 guard rotations and playing their 2nd best player in a position that is most certainly not suited to him?! Would they allow their 2nd best player on the roster to be pushed back to 4th or 5th offensive option each night?! Would they be playing their 2nd best player the least minutes than any of the other starters?

I think the answer to all those questions is a resounding NO so that brings us to the root of the problem and unless we fix it, we will go nowhere.

 

[bajaden]

Short version: playing a three guard lineup or a lineup devoid of a center. The idea is to favor speed over size. The advantages is that you have more (theoretically better) shooters and ballhandlers on the floor, leading to more points. The disadvantage (aside from never winning a championship) is that you are smaller than the person you're trying to defend at nearly every position, making defense nearly impossible to achieve. Your main goal is to outgun the opposition.

It doesn't have anything to do with IT, really. If we had IT and Evans in the backcourt, with someone like Donte Greene at SF, then JT and Cousins in the frontcourt, then it would be a more balanced lineup. As it is, we play with three guards, and usually during games, Smart will go to a 4 guard lineup. That is the crux of the issue as it pertains to the Kings.

I hope that helps to clarify a little.

I'm really trying to understand your point, but what confuses me, is what is Smart susposed to do when he has to take Cousins out of the game, and Thompson is hurt? Who is the center he's susposed to insert in the game, not named 6'6" Chuck Hayes. The other night, he played Cousins the entire second half. We only have one true center on the team and thats Cousins. I suspose you could start Hayes with Cousins, and then let Thompson come in and play center, but Thompson is playing so well along side Cousins, I'd hate to screw with it.

You could be right. Smart may well be in love with small ball. But I can't convict him of that when he doesn't have the necessary players to play a big lineup on a regular basis. Sometime next season, I may agree with you, or you may agree with me. But I do know one thing. He's a better coach than Westphal, who spent too much of his time lobbying to get Cousins traded.

 

[bluntsnbball]

Is "smallball" simply starting Thomas at PG? Is "smallball" simply starting Evans at SF? Is it "smallball" if Williams is playing SG? Is Smart running a "smallball" offense because he coached under Nelson for six years? How do you know it's "smallball"? When Thomas becomes the starting PG for the Bobcats will their offense be using "smallball"? With the roster Smart has is there anyway he play, field a team that isn't "smallball", at least a team you would recommend? If you were Smart what lineup would you start and hope to win with?

All questions I come up with every time I read a thread that talks about Kings "smallball". Basketball I understand. Trying to win I understand. Some of the rest adnittedly leaves me in the dark.

Come on, really?

Its not only small ball b/c we have a 3 guard lineup, its small ball when we have 6'6" salmons at PF and 6'6" Hayes at center along with more guards. If the tallest guy on the floor for us is 6"6", thats got to be the tiniest lineup in the league.

The starting 5 is not the smallest of small, but when we have the 2nd unit out there, we have a team of midgets trying to play against giants. Its just not gonna cut it.

there may not be a ton of better options, but for gods sake throw Greene out there at PF, hes big enough to give it a shot. Salmons nor garcia nor outlaw should ever ever be in at the 4. If thats the only option, we should have never let go of hickson.

 

[bajaden]

What exactly can't he develop if he plays at the three that is necessary as a two-guard? He's learning to move without the ball, a skill that is very nice to have as a 2-guard. Playing the 3 doesn't preclude him from getting better on his outside shot. How exactly is he being held back from his development?

I totally get how his ballhandling strengths aren't being seen fully at the three, but I don't think I agree that he can't develop the skills he needs because he is a three.

Your being way too logical!

 

[bajaden]

What exactly can't he develop if he plays at the three that is necessary as a two-guard? He's learning to move without the ball, a skill that is very nice to have as a 2-guard. Playing the 3 doesn't preclude him from getting better on his outside shot. How exactly is he being held back from his development?

I totally get how his ballhandling strengths aren't being seen fully at the three, but I don't think I agree that he can't develop the skills he needs because he is a three.

Your being way way too logical!

 

[Entity]

I think the obvious solution here is either IT or Thornton got to the bench or Thornton gets traded for a true shooting SF.

 

[Gary]

Babe....I got you babe...

If anyone can point to where Smart said he's forcing Reke at the 3 out of necessity, then I'll be able to stomach it as much as I have to. What we have on record is Smart saying Tyreke isn't a SF, yet he plays him there. Another season like this one, and Evans will bolt, and we'll be another step back, marveling at the fact that we're scoring 110 points a game, yet not sniffing the playoffs.

I think it forced his hand though.. MT is WAY too small to even be considered at the 3, and We need to start IT at PG in order to have any kind of offensive fluidity. So that leaves you with two of your three best players to play SG and SF. Not ideal but nobody has played bad enough to be put on the bench either.

It's probably OK to pass Evans off as a SF, but going forward I would rather have him at SG and Thornton coming off the bench. But like I said before, our hand is being forced due to a HUGE dropoff in talent on our team past the first 5 players.

 

[Bricklayer]

Is "smallball" simply starting Thomas at PG? Is "smallball" simply starting Evans at SF? Is it "smallball" if Williams is playing SG? Is Smart running a "smallball" offense because he coached under Nelson for six years? How do you know it's "smallball"? When Thomas becomes the starting PG for the Bobcats will their offense be using "smallball"? With the roster Smart has is there anyway he play, field a team that isn't "smallball", at least a team you would recommend? If you were Smart what lineup would you start and hope to win with?

All questions I come up with every time I read a thread that talks about Kings "smallball". Basketball I understand. Trying to win I understand. Some of the rest adnittedly leaves me in the dark.

Smallball is having THE smallest PG/SG/SF trio in the league now. 5'9"/6'4"/6'5" of PG/SG/PG-SG. We give up size every night at least two of the positions, and most of the time all of them. We can't switch effectively. We double small. We can't keep teams off the board. And then of course it is hugely compouunded by the idiotic bench subs with SFs playing PF, a 6'6" stub at C, etc.

 

[Spike]

But like I said before, our hand is being forced due to a HUGE dropoff in talent on our team past the first 5 players.

That's certainly the company line, anyway, but it's not about putting your five best players in the starting lineup. It should always be about the 5 guys that fit best together. It's why Harden, Terry,Ginobli, etc. come off the bench. All they bring is offense. The starting lineups aren't about the best five players; it's about balance.

I'd be willing to wager, dollars to donuts, if Smart had stuck with his original lineups, and kept normal substitutions, the complaints would be all about how we lack a SF to take us to the next level, instead of how everything is falling apart in the chase for more points. The reason it's so bad right now, IMO, is the blatant misuse of talent. You have an all world center, and an elite slasher. Build around that. With a little patience, it's a championship recipe.

 

[hrdboild]

What exactly can't he develop if he plays at the three that is necessary as a two-guard? He's learning to move without the ball, a skill that is very nice to have as a 2-guard. Playing the 3 doesn't preclude him from getting better on his outside shot. How exactly is he being held back from his development?

I totally get how his ballhandling strengths aren't being seen fully at the three, but I don't think I agree that he can't develop the skills he needs because he is a three.

But then don't you have to question whether playing a supposed franchise cornerstone at a position which negates a lot of his strengths and forces him to instead focus mostly on his weaknesses is the best thing for (a) his confidence and (b) the future of the franchise? Surely there's a gray area in there between catering completely to a players whims and forcing him to adapt to the role you envision for him by taking away everything else. Coach Smart himself said that Tyreke has never had to play off-the-ball. So why is he giving Thomas, Thornton, and even Salmons more opportunities to handle the ball? Yes Tyreke needs to work on his jumper so he can spot up when someone else has the ball, but he's also been playing better defense than anyone else we're sending out there for some time now and rewarding him by asking him to defer on offense as well doesn't seem like it sends a good message to anybody.

 

[The_Jamal]

Smallball is having THE smallest PG/SG/SF trio in the league now. 5'9"/6'4"/6'5" of PG/SG/PG-SG. We give up size every night at least two of the positions, and most of the time all of them. We can't switch effectively. We double small. We can't keep teams off the board. And then of course it is hugely compouunded by the idiotic bench subs with SFs playing PF, a 6'6" stub at C, etc.

So what's the plan then boss? Make Hayes grow 5 inches? Bench JT who's been playing all-star level basketball the last 3 weeks? Play the almighty Hassan Whiteside? Tell Tyreke or Thornton or IT that they're going to the bench for one of our wonderful SF's?

 

[mac]

It is a tough situation, and Smart might lose someone by sending them to the bench. But right now he's losing Reke, so is standing pat worth it? And he might even lose Reke long term, as in the franchise driving him out. I know from his brothers tweets at the least they think Smarts use of him is highly questionable. I hate Reke at SF, but, I'd be able to stomach it more if he's more involved and getting more touches/plays run for him. Some act as if because he's a SF now it's completely on him to cut all over the court and find some way to pry the ball from IT/MT, or else it's just his fault for not getting it.

Look at how some of the better SF's are involved around the league. Constantly get the ball on the wings, coming off screens, various plays run for them-they're involved. Now, Reke does has to improve moving off the ball, but we're not running a great offense for that anyway. IT/MT make one or two passes, then shoot. They aren't looking for cutters. MT sure isn't. Often times when MT or IT gets it on the wing, Reke is the next pass, yet that next pass isn't coming. IT is good at keeping Cuz involved, but again, we're not running many cutters off Cuz. Every now and then we do, but not consistently. More often then not it's IT/Cuz clearing a side, dumping it in to Cuz and letting him go 1v1. Reke is baseline, and MT elbow extended. MT has to cut or clear out for Reke to even attempt to be involved. That's pretty basic.

If we ran a motion offense, it'd be different. If we ran plays for Reke as most teams do their SF's, it's be different. But often times Reke in the corner having to wait for MT to cut/clear from the wing. MT is usually elbow extended, Reke in the corner. Reke can't do much until MT clears across the court, or when he gets it, moves it to Reke every once in a while and cuts across the court. But that pass isn't coming, leaving MT with the ball at elbow extended, then Reke has to cut to the opposite corner to clear space. The offense isn't set up to have a PG, SG and SF involved.

And this doesn't even touch on defense.

This is spot on. People talk about how Tyreke can develop SG skills at the 3, but the thing is Tyreke isn't even getting touches. Unless 'develop SG/off the ball' skills means becoming a role player who has to cut and hope he gets a pass, you have to be blind to see that Tyreke isn't getting a chance to develop. Mid-range game? When have they ever got him the ball for a midrange shot? Want him at SF? Fine, then run some proper plays for him.

When he shoots off the dribble people complain that he's a ballhog, shouldn't do things he can't. So woopie now we have SF Tyreke standing in the corner not doing anything. Oh joy.

 

[hrdboild]

That's certainly the company line, anyway, but it's not about putting your five best players in the starting lineup. It should always be about the 5 guys that fit best together. It's why Harden, Terry,Ginobli, etc. come off the bench. All they bring is offense. The starting lineups aren't about the best five players; it's about balance.

I'd be willing to wager, dollars to donuts, if Smart had stuck with his original lineups, and kept normal substitutions, the complaints would be all about how we lack a SF to take us to the next level, instead of how everything is falling apart in the chase for more points. The reason it's so bad right now, IMO, is the blatant misuse of talent. You have an all world center, and an elite slasher. Build around that. With a little patience, it's a championship recipe.

Exactly. That sums up why I'm not happy with Keith Smart right now. He said a lot of encouraging things when he took the job, and then he started coaching like he forgot about all of them. This team desperately needs a patient coach with a vision and all it's getting lately are micro-managers who are coaching for the next 2 or 3 games instead of the next 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[Glenn]

I'm really trying to understand your point, but what confuses me, is what is Smart susposed to do when he has to take Cousins out of the game, and Thompson is hurt? Who is the center he's susposed to insert in the game, not named 6'6" Chuck Hayes. The other night, he played Cousins the entire second half. We only have one true center on the team and thats Cousins. I suspose you could start Hayes with Cousins, and then let Thompson come in and play center, but Thompson is playing so well along side Cousins, I'd hate to screw with it.

You could be right. Smart may well be in love with small ball. But I can't convict him of that when he doesn't have the necessary players to play a big lineup on a regular basis. Sometime next season, I may agree with you, or you may agree with me. But I do know one thing. He's a better coach than Westphal, who spent too much of his time lobbying to get Cousins traded.

Smart may be backed into a corner but he put himsef there by signing off on getting rid off JJ Hickson. Interestingly, JJ has been replaced with someone shorter, TWill. Certainly in the decision making proces of what to do with JJ must have come up the issue of injury to a big and what then would the team do. If the issue didn't come up, it should have. Injuries are part of the game.

 

[rainmaker]

This is spot on. People talk about how Tyreke can develop SG skills at the 3, but the thing is Tyreke isn't even getting touches. Unless 'develop SG/off the ball' skills means becoming a role player who has to cut and hope he gets a pass, you have to be blind to see that Tyreke isn't getting a chance to develop. Mid-range game? When have they ever got him the ball for a midrange shot? Want him at SF? Fine, then run some proper plays for him.

When he shoots off the dribble people complain that he's a ballhog, shouldn't do things he can't. So woopie now we have SF Tyreke standing in the corner not doing anything. Oh joy.

Some act as if being a SF means stand in the corner, and any offense you get is based of moving without the ball. That's part of it, but not nearly the majority, nor are all SF roles similar.

The way Lebron/Pierce/Iggy are used is completely different than AK/Prince/Granger/Wallace, which is different from Battier/Batum/Dudley. Yet what I see is us essentially trying to squeeze Reke into the SF role of the last group I mentioned, a Battier type role, which is the worst possible use of him.

It's funny how some think Reke should almost immediately just adapt to playing off the ball. How long has Lebron been in the league? How long has Wade? It's their 9th year yet they're still learning how to play off the ball, but mostly just take turn with it as they aren't that good at it. Work fine for Lebron as a SF. And he's involved. ANd no that isn't to say Reke is near Lebron's level for anyone else looking to take that the wrong way, but the style of play is similar, and the way in which Lebron is involved shows a better way of keeping a player like Reke involved. You don't jsut take the ball out of Lebrons hands and tell him to catch and shoot when he opportunity comes. That'd be dumb and a terrible use of him.