Iggy and Reke?

[mac]

Actually not very difficult at all.

Reke took a total of 765 FGA's last season. Here are the follow breakdowns for his FGA per bracket.

3-10 feet--- 33.1% --- 145 FGA
10-16 feet--- 31.1%--- 16 FGA
16-<3pt line--- 33.9%--- 112 FGA
3pt line--- 33.8%--- 133 FGA

add those up and we got 406 FGA or 53% of his shots

Reke's line at the rim:

At Rim--- 64%--- 359 FGA or 47% of his shots at the rim.

Do some simple math and you have your answer. There's nothing "advanced" about this. Just a record of where Reke took his shots and at what % he made them at. People get scared way too easily by the word "advanced" metrics. When in reality, it's just manipulating basic data in easy ways to give a better understanding of what you're trying to find out (efficiency, rebounding, scoring ability etc)

Could you kindly provide the same break down for Wade's FGAs in his 4th year? Or provide me with the link to find out myself Thanks

 

[The_Jamal]

Could you kindly provide the same break down for Wade's FGAs in his 4th year? Or provide me with the link to find out myself Thanks

Certainly,

06-07, Wade took 962 total FGA

At Rim---67%---352 FGA or 36.6% of his shots

3-10 ft---51.1%---94 FGA
10-16 ft---40%---100 FGA
16- <3-pt---37.7%---337 FGA
3-pt line---26.6%--- 79 FGA

608 FGA's or 63.4% of his total shots

Total Jump shots (including 3s)---38.2%--599 FGA

Overall efficiency this season was:

Also shot 49% FG, 58.3 TS%, and 50.2 eFG%

 

[mac]

Certainly,

06-07, Wade took 962 total FGA

At Rim---67%---352 FGA or 36.6% of his shots

3-10 ft---51.1%---94 FGA
10-16 ft---40%---100 FGA
16- <3-pt---37.7%---337 FGA
3-pt line---26.6%--- 79 FGA

608 FGA's or 63.4% of his total shots

Total Jump shots (including 3s)---38.2%--599 FGA

Overall efficiency this season was:

Also shot 49% FG, 58.3 TS%, and 50.2 eFG%

Cool. Well if I were Tyreke I'd start working on my 3-10ft game, because that seems to be the biggest edge that Wade had at that point compared to Tyreke now. Of course there are lots of other factors involved such as where a player catches the ball or how much space there is in the lane as result of your offense. Tyreke took almost twice as many 3s and shot a better % so there's no contest in terms of 3 point shooting. Not sure if total FGA is skewed because of Tyreke missing some games, but I hope to see him attempt more outside shots next season. There's no better practice for in-game shooting than well ... in-game shooting. One thing we can be excited about - considering defenses back off Tyreke it's quite impressive how his FGA at the rim is still higher than Wade's was in absolutes, and converted at a high %.

 

[The_Jamal]

Cool. Well if I were Tyreke I'd start working on my 3-10ft game, because that seems to be the biggest edge that Wade had at that point compared to Tyreke now. Of course there are lots of other factors involved such as where a player catches the ball or how much space there is in the lane as result of your offense. Tyreke took almost twice as many 3s and shot a better % so there's no contest in terms of 3 point shooting. Not sure if total FGA is skewed because of Tyreke missing some games, but I hope to see him attempt more outside shots next season. There's no better practice for in-game shooting than well ... in-game shooting. One thing we can be excited about - considering defenses back off Tyreke it's quite impressive how his FGA at the rim is still higher than Wade's was in absolutes, and converted at a high %.

Yea, this has gotten me interested in a project that i'll do and post my findings sometime in the near future. I want to go back maybe 10-15 years and go through all the "franchise" wings in the NBA and see what sort of shooting % they shot at in the difference zones. So guys like Pierce, Tmac, Carter, Kobe, Parker, Rose, Harden, Joe Johnson etc.

His FGA volume and attempts at the rim are both highly encouraging. I would wager both are amongst the League's best for perimeter players. However, what these numbers do is highlight his inability to score in any other format on a consistent basis. The set 3 was decent enough, but that's about all he has shooting the ball. I think once he gets more confidence n the jumper and starts hitting them at a higher clip, i'd wager we'd see his at-rim % rise as well. I'd wager a 36-37% Jump shot total in addition to his at-rim % would get him to elite levels offensively.

 

[Glenn]

Actually not very difficult at all.

Reke took a total of 765 FGA's last season. Here are the follow breakdowns for his FGA per bracket.

3-10 feet--- 33.1% --- 145 FGA
10-16 feet--- 31.1%--- 16 FGA
16-<3pt line--- 33.9%--- 112 FGA
3pt line--- 33.8%--- 133 FGA

add those up and we got 406 FGA or 53% of his shots

Reke's line at the rim:

At Rim--- 64%--- 359 FGA or 47% of his shots at the rim.

Do some simple math and you have your answer. There's nothing "advanced" about this. Just a record of where Reke took his shots and at what % he made them at. People get scared way too easily by the word "advanced" metrics. When in reality, it's just manipulating basic data in easy ways to give a better understanding of what you're trying to find out (efficiency, rebounding, scoring ability etc)

I was pulling your leg. I know you tend to think anyone with an opinion different than yours is stupid but I'm not quite sure what you were trying to prove. His shooting percentage has gone up. I think that's good but you think he is a "horrible" shooter. You make no sense and when a person doesn't tell the complete story and somehow that "proves" his point, I am skeptical and usually don't pay much attention to that person's opinions.

 

[ParniValjak]

I ask the question, why would Kings do this if they did not plan on keeping Tyreke Evans?!

https://twitter.com/carmichaeldave/status/348330166780583936

Also gave them signed DeMarcus and Tyreke jerseys, a bag of goodies, and some amazing things coming up this season.

This is Carmichael Dave saying how Kings gave a soldier and his wife a tour of the STA, got them to choose their seats for next season and gave them some goodies including signed Cousins and Evans jerseys!

With all the little indicators around lately, I am becoming more and more confident that we will keep Tyreke and build around him and Cousins!

Happy times!

 

[The_Jamal]

I was pulling your leg. I know you tend to think anyone with an opinion different than yours is stupid but I'm not quite sure what you were trying to prove. His shooting percentage has gone up. I think that's good but you think he is a "horrible" shooter. You make no sense and when a person doesn't tell the complete story and somehow that "proves" his point, I am skeptical and usually don't pay much attention to that person's opinions.

sigh... It's frustrating dealing with people who won't even make an attempt to understand a VERY basic stats model. I've already shown why Reke's percentages are what they are. I'm not leaving any part of the "story" out. You just don't want to accept factual data because it goes against your pre-conceived notions of Reke.

I was trying to prove (and rather succesfully) that Reke and Iggy are not near the shooters that Bron and Wade are (as some people have suggested). I don't make assertions based off opinions. I look for factual data to back up any claims I make. Or at least attempt too. I apologize that doesn't follow the party line of blindly following the word of a few posters, but hey.

 

[Bricklayer]

What does any of this have to do with Reke's shooting still being horrible? Find it amusing how quickly you rush his defense when your argument has absolutely nothing to do with Reke's shooting.

Reke is still a long way from being even called an average shooter. His average set 3 is the only shot outside of his shots at the rim where his %'s are not embarrassingly low.

It goes to relevance.

Reke's shooting "being horrible" while he shoots 48% is completely and 100% irrelevant...unless it effects his teammates. Because if anything if you are a crap shooter and still shoot 48% from the field, putting you in the Top 5 in the entire league at your position, then it indicates that you are absolutely overwhelmingly better at the things you do do than the numerous guys out there that can shoot better than you. As an aside, if you shoot 48% from the field as a horrible shooter, then people demanding you become a good one in order to be worthy are essentially asking you to shoot 55% from the field and go down as one of the 5 best guards of all time before they think you're worthy. I think that would be cool. I however am not so asinine as to predicate success or failure on that standard.

So if Reke hits a higher percentage of his shots than virtually any other guard in the league who wasn't playing in the Finals a couple of days ago, complaints about his shooting mean absolutely nothing...except if they adversely effect the people around him. And that is where the distinction about shots that matter for teammates vs. shots that don't comes into play. 15 foot jumpshots are largely irrelevant to anybody but you. They create no space, no passing lanes, bend no defenses. Hence the question could be put thusly:

If a shooting guard has the second highest shooting percentage in the entire league at his position, and furthermore said guard has developed a decent level of proficiency at the single most important spacing skill a guard can have, namely spot up three point shooting, what exactly is the exaggerated problem supposed to be with how his game effects those of teammates?

Reke in fact might have one of the purest games in the sport as far as potentially positively impacting teammates' opportunities. 3/4 of his game is either slashing into the paint, thus drawing attention, collapsing defenses, and getting people open, or spot shooting threes, thus providing spacing and kickout opportunities for his post players. Far more questionable in their impact on teammates are players who muddle about in the 10-20 foot range, taking jumpers off their own dribble, neither collapsing the defense nor creating space.

 

[Dime Dropper]

"Ironing?" What do you major in at college?

I wondered who would bite.

It's an internet meme based off a Simpsons quote. Google the phrase!

 

[Glenn]

sigh... It's frustrating dealing with people who won't even make an attempt to understand a VERY basic stats model. I've already shown why Reke's percentages are what they are. I'm not leaving any part of the "story" out. You just don't want to accept factual data because it goes against your pre-conceived notions of Reke.

I was trying to prove (and rather succesfully) that Reke and Iggy are not near the shooters that Bron and Wade are (as some people have suggested). I don't make assertions based off opinions. I look for factual data to back up any claims I make. Or at least attempt too. I apologize that doesn't follow the party line of blindly following the word of a few posters, but hey.

I guess I didn't have a clue as to what you were trying to prove. Now that I know what the issue was, I wish I hadn't commented as it is an issue I have no interest in. Not sure why this is an issue but carry on.

 

[Glenn]

I wondered who would bite.

It's an internet meme based off a Simpsons quote. Google the phrase!

At least you know someone reads your notes carefully.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

The great thing about Iggy besides defense is his ball movement. Even though Ty Lawson was the primary ball handler Iggy still got 5.4 assists last year.

If there was ever a way to put Tyreke back at PG, it would be to have a guy like Iggy there facilitating as well. Then put a shooter between them. Maybe it works

This is the thing, in my opinion. If you can magically find some way of doing an S&T with DEN for Iggy and shed another bad contract for a later pick (Hayes may have value to a team like MIN or TOR, both of whom have terrible depth issues at the 4/5 that may not get solved via the draft), and I do feel this is the only way we'd realistically land him, you could argue that your logic in doing that was to use 'Reke as your PG and plug two holes. In that scenario, you would have DMC/JT/???/Evans/Iggy as your 5. It thus becomes crucial that the player who locks in there at the 3 be able to nail an outside shot and have range. In that light, Shabazz or a player like Karasev makes some sense, especially if we've used the Amnesty on Salmons.

Unless, of course, you settle on using Iggy at the 3, sign him as an FA, and keep Thornton to start at the 2. Evans gets resigned to start the 1. At least in that scenario we'd have all our "starting contracts" actually, you know, playing as starters. For me, though, the Salmons Amnesty and ditching Hayes (or Outlaw, perhaps) for salary flexibility via a second rounder of future pick is the only way this gets off the ground.

 

[uolj]

Nope, it's correct. It's the total sample size of jumpers a player took (3s included). You''ll notice everyone else's Jump shot total (including 3s) is lower as well.

I think the point is that the jump shot total can't possibly be 31.1% if it's taken from the other percentages you listed, because the lowest percentage in any one category is 31.1%. What your post should have said was:

Tyreke:

3-10 feet--- 33.1%
10-16 feet--- 31.1%
16-<3pt line--- 33.9%
3pt line--- 33.8%


Jump shot total (including 3s)-- 33.5%

 

[Hadlowe]

I'm fine with a statement that Tyreke is mediocre to poor away from the rim. That's pretty clear. He is also one of the best in the league at getting to the rim. That creates opportunities for his teammates in a proper offense. Iguodala is mediocre to decent away from the rim. In Philadelphia, he was very good from corner 3 on kickouts. In the Olympics he was very good on spot up 3s because the team was full of shooters. In Denver, he was bad on 3s because he ended up shooting most of them off the dribble late in the shot clock which means he was hoisting up a well-defended shot. Last year's stats are not indicative of Iggy's ability to shoot from the outside, unless our team insists on running George Karl's offense.

My point with mentioning Lebron and Wade is that they have duplicative skillsets. Both are slashers who finish well at the rim. Both are ball-dominant and prefer iso plays to take their guy off the dribble. Until this year, both of them struggle from long range. Lebron shot 40% from downtown this year for reasons discussed earlier in the thread, but it is fair to say that this year is an outlier. The point being, Iggy and Tyreke could conceivably work with the right supporting cast, and you won't find a much better swingman in the league than Iguodala.

Which means, he's probably going to the lakers.

 

[Telemachus]

I'm fine with a statement that Tyreke is mediocre to poor away from the rim. That's pretty clear. He is also one of the best in the league at getting to the rim. That creates opportunities for his teammates in a proper offense. Iguodala is mediocre to decent away from the rim. In Philadelphia, he was very good from corner 3 on kickouts. In the Olympics he was very good on spot up 3s because the team was full of shooters. In Denver, he was bad on 3s because he ended up shooting most of them off the dribble late in the shot clock which means he was hoisting up a well-defended shot. Last year's stats are not indicative of Iggy's ability to shoot from the outside, unless our team insists on running George Karl's offense.

My point with mentioning Lebron and Wade is that they have duplicative skillsets. Both are slashers who finish well at the rim. Both are ball-dominant and prefer iso plays to take their guy off the dribble. Until this year, both of them struggle from long range. Lebron shot 40% from downtown this year for reasons discussed earlier in the thread, but it is fair to say that this year is an outlier. The point being, Iggy and Tyreke could conceivably work with the right supporting cast, and you won't find a much better swingman in the league than Iguodala.

Which means, he's probably going to the lakers.

The Lakers don't have any cap space. I believe their pay roll this season was around $100 million.

 

[jalfa]

I'm fine with a statement that Tyreke is mediocre to poor away from the rim. That's pretty clear. He is also one of the best in the league at getting to the rim. That creates opportunities for his teammates in a proper offense. Iguodala is mediocre to decent away from the rim. In Philadelphia, he was very good from corner 3 on kickouts. In the Olympics he was very good on spot up 3s because the team was full of shooters. In Denver, he was bad on 3s because he ended up shooting most of them off the dribble late in the shot clock which means he was hoisting up a well-defended shot. Last year's stats are not indicative of Iggy's ability to shoot from the outside, unless our team insists on running George Karl's offense.

My point with mentioning Lebron and Wade is that they have duplicative skillsets. Both are slashers who finish well at the rim. Both are ball-dominant and prefer iso plays to take their guy off the dribble. Until this year, both of them struggle from long range. Lebron shot 40% from downtown this year for reasons discussed earlier in the thread, but it is fair to say that this year is an outlier. The point being, Iggy and Tyreke could conceivably work with the right supporting cast, and you won't find a much better swingman in the league than Iguodala.

the problem with the whole Wade/James thing is that these two are so much better at everything than Reke/Iggy would be and their shooting, even with the improved LBJ, was still a major issue for them in the finals. just look at how much better the Heat's offense was without Wade on the court. shooting wise, it's just not that attractive a model and that's not even considering that Reke/Iggy would probably be closer to Allen/Prince than Wade/James talent wise.

Which means, he's probably going to the lakers.

Cleveland would make some sense, unless they realistically think that they can sign LeBron next year.