Iggy and Reke?

[Rain man]

If we offer a qualifying offer to Reke, we can go over the cap to sign him which is the advantage. The disadvantage is that by extending a qualifying offer we have a cap hold of some $13 million on Tyreke's contract which is precisely our cap space this off season. In other words, until we sign Tyreke, we have no salary cap room to play with to sign other players.

Now if we don't extend Tyreke a qualifying offer, we don't have a cap hold which means $13 million in salary cap space but it also means that we cannot go over the cap to re-sign Tyreke as he becomes just like any other FA to us.

This is why I have been saying that we made major boo boo in the last two off seasons burning all of our cap space without addressing the needs. If we don't extend Tyreke a qualifying offer and amnesty Salmons, that frees up some $20 million of cap space (assuming we don't give QO to Douglas, JJ and Aldrich) which is still not enough to sign both Tyreke and Iggy and our 1st pick.

The only way we can do it is if we somehow traded couple of our crap deals with our pick to a team with salary cap room and a later pick so that we have more cap space come july 1. For example, if we trade pick 7, Hayes and Outlaw for say pick 19, we free up some additional $8-10 million of cap space. Amnesty Salmons and it becomes something line $15-18 million of cap space and if we re-sign Evans starting at $9 million then you can add another $4 million to cap space which could allow us to get Iggy and another decent piece.

The trick is trying to shed some of those ridiculously bad contracts hence why it is not realistic.

I am no cap expert, and I am not sure how accurate this site its, but I think Iggy and Reke can be done. According to this site, http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/kings.jsp we have $42M committed in salary, without counting the Reke cap hold.

If you amnesty Salmons, that number drops to $34.4. Add in the Reke cap hold of $13.1, and you are up to $47.5. Add in the first round pick guarantee ($2.4) and you are at $49.9M. The cap is $59M I think, meaning that we have roughly $9.1 in cap space to play with, which may be fairly close to the number you need to get Iggy. Plus, keep in mind that a player is usually interested in total money of the contract. For example, you could pay Iggy $9M in year 1, $10.5M in year 2, 12M in year 3, and 13.5 in year 4, totaling 4 year/45 million ($11.25M per year), but only paying $9M in the first year. So, I think you could get Reke and Iggy by amnestying Salmons.

Also, as you mentioned, you could add to the $9.1M figure by trading down in the draft, finding a way to dump salary (Outlaw, Jimmer, etc...), or signing Reke to an actual extension less than $13M.

However, I think that by simply getting rid of Salmons (and eating his salary) you could have about $9M in cap room this year,

 

[ParniValjak]

I am no cap expert, and I am not sure how accurate this site its, but I think Iggy and Reke can be done. According to this site, http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/kings.jsp we have $42M committed in salary, without counting the Reke cap hold.

If you amnesty Salmons, that number drops to $34.4. Add in the Reke cap hold of $13.1, and you are up to $47.5. Add in the first round pick guarantee ($2.4) and you are at $49.9M. The cap is $59M I think, meaning that we have roughly $9.1 in cap space to play with, which may be fairly close to the number you need to get Iggy. Plus, keep in mind that a player is usually interested in total money of the contract. For example, you could pay Iggy $9M in year 1, $10.5M in year 2, 12M in year 3, and 13.5 in year 4, totaling 4 year/45 million ($11.25M per year), but only paying $9M in the first year. So, I think you could get Reke and Iggy by amnestying Salmons.

Also, as you mentioned, you could add to the $9.1M figure by trading down in the draft, finding a way to dump salary (Outlaw, Jimmer, etc...), or signing Reke to an actual extension less than $13M.

However, I think that by simply getting rid of Salmons (and eating his salary) you could have about $9M in cap room this year,

You are dreaming if you think that a contract starting at $9 or $10 million would be enough to get Iggy. Just ain't going to happen. This is his last chance for a juicy contract in his career and he will not be taking $7 million pay cut in his first year. Just not going to happen unless he is super keen to win the NBA championship and he is going to an instant contender. Even then, I doubt he would turn his back on that much money.

 

[Gilles]

Kings as a team without Bird rights are allowed to offer only 4.5% increases. So over, say, a 4 year contract you can offer 4.27*x, where x is the starting salary. So for 4/45 million contract minimum starting salary is $10,540,000.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You are dreaming if you think that a contract starting at $9 or $10 million would be enough to get Iggy. Just ain't going to happen. This is his last chance for a juicy contract in his career and he will not be taking $7 million pay cut in his first year. Just not going to happen unless he is super keen to win the NBA championship and he is going to an instant contender. Even then, I doubt he would turn his back on that much money.

You're right on that. The thing we haven't considered, unlikely as it might be, is a sign-and trade. If we sign Tyreke to a $10M deal to start, renounce our other FAs aside from our #7, and sign-and-trade Iggy for MT23, we could start Iggy at about $13M and be under the cap. This obviously would require the Nuggets to believe that sending off Iggy for Thornton would be a worthwhile thing to do. They do have a glut of wings and a paucity of guards, so to the extent that they'd like to land a SG who can start if needed, come off the bench if needed, and light up the scoreboard (while at the same time getting them safely away from the tax level) I suppose it might at least merit some consideration.

Of course, if we were to amnesty Salmons, pretty much any size of 'Reke and Iggy contracts would work given a sign-and-trade of Thornton. The S&T is probably the only realistic way (capwise) of us both keeping Tyreke and nabbing Iguodala.

Of course, the question then becomes how smart it would be to have an expensive Evans and a maxed-out Iggy on the same team with Cousins due for the next payday. I think it's survivable. Just kind of hallucinating a 2014-2015 roster and salaries, you'd have Hayes $6M, JT $6M, Outlaw $3M and Jimmer $3M who we already have under contract (Jimmer's isn't guaranteed yet). Then say Iggy $16M, Tyreke $12M, DeMarcus $15M. We'd also have #7 from this year at about $3M and the $1M guaranteed from Salmons' contract. IT would be a free agent but we could make him an RFA. So, 8 players under contract for about $65M. $9-12M of that is wasted money (Hayes, Outlaw, maybe Jimmer) but would go away after that year. A core of Cousins, Iguodala, Evans, #7, IT, and Thompson, but that's pretty much the core. Is that a roster that competes? Is it worth near-max money to Iguodala? I don't know.

 

[jalfa]

This is the way it appears to be. A decade or so ago the CBA was constructed so teams would have an advantage over other teams to retain their own players. The Bird rights were the highlight as far as I was concerned. There was no such thing as a cap hold so a team, let us say us, could sign a free agent up to the amount we are under the salary cap. We would have plenty of room to sign Iggy for example. But now with the cap hold, it is darn near impossible to retain Tyreke AND get a dignificant FA like, let me see, oh, Iggy!.

Just summarizing it in my own brain so I can get sufficiently angry. All the discussion of Iggy and Tyreke being on the same team is moot. And no, folks, you don't make a short term deal with Iggy with a wink and a promise of a bigger deal down the road. Isn't that what Minnesota did with Smith and got punished badly?

As the years passed the CBA became more and more complicated and that's when I gave up trying to understand it. Now the cap hold prohibits us from signing a significant free agent if we also want to retain Tyreke. That's the bottom line, right? Wonderful.

There are ways of making it all work but they are unlikely. Amnesty Salmons and trade MT for next to nothing back is one way. I presume I am at least moderately close to understanding how we will not make that jump in improvement by getting a significant SF.

just to clarify, the cap hold is a measure that actually protects teams like the Kings from big market teams willing to pay luxury tax and the like. you still have every advantage in resigning your own free agent, it just becomes impossible for a team to have a hypothetical situation where all their players expire, they throw lots of money at premium free agents and then resign their own players, using bird rights to exceed the cap. this would of course only happen in markets where your team makes a profit anyway (à la LA, NY or Chicago) and would us small market teams at a massive disadvantage.

 

[ParniValjak]

You're right on that. The thing we haven't considered, unlikely as it might be, is a sign-and trade. If we sign Tyreke to a $10M deal to start, renounce our other FAs aside from our #7, and sign-and-trade Iggy for MT23, we could start Iggy at about $13M and be under the cap. This obviously would require the Nuggets to believe that sending off Iggy for Thornton would be a worthwhile thing to do. They do have a glut of wings and a paucity of guards, so to the extent that they'd like to land a SG who can start if needed, come off the bench if needed, and light up the scoreboard (while at the same time getting them safely away from the tax level) I suppose it might at least merit some consideration.

Of course, if we were to amnesty Salmons, pretty much any size of 'Reke and Iggy contracts would work given a sign-and-trade of Thornton. The S&T is probably the only realistic way (capwise) of us both keeping Tyreke and nabbing Iguodala.

Of course, the question then becomes how smart it would be to have an expensive Evans and a maxed-out Iggy on the same team with Cousins due for the next payday. I think it's survivable. Just kind of hallucinating a 2014-2015 roster and salaries, you'd have Hayes $6M, JT $6M, Outlaw $3M and Jimmer $3M who we already have under contract (Jimmer's isn't guaranteed yet). Then say Iggy $16M, Tyreke $12M, DeMarcus $15M. We'd also have #7 from this year at about $3M and the $1M guaranteed from Salmons' contract. IT would be a free agent but we could make him an RFA. So, 8 players under contract for about $65M. $9-12M of that is wasted money (Hayes, Outlaw, maybe Jimmer) but would go away after that year. A core of Cousins, Iguodala, Evans, #7, IT, and Thompson, but that's pretty much the core. Is that a roster that competes? Is it worth near-max money to Iguodala? I don't know.

I have thought about sign and trades and in fact we got Brad Miller via sign and trade. The thing is, these are becoming increasingly difficult these days especially with the new CBA where teams are reluctant to take on salary if they don't need and like the player.

As you said Denver has a lot of guards that they seem to like so I am not sure they bite on Thornton. You could offer Salmons but why would they do that. They need to be getting something that they would value going forward. A draft pick (which we can't trade because we owe one to CLE) or some young prospects that thye might like which we might not have. Outside, Thornton, IT, Patterson and JT, all the other pieces are either very much required or have no value to other teams.

If we had that draft pick we might have been able to pull that off BUT we are very limited in terms of what we can offer. I would love to see some kind of creativity by PDA this off-season where we keep both Cousins and Evans AND add another star to cover that SF position (hello Iggy) and add a shot blocker to develop next to Cousins.

 

[Kingster]

Iggy and Tyreke is a non-starter. It won't happen. Too much mediocre outside shooting. Too little floor spacing. And that floor spacing isn't just for Cousins - it's for all of the team. This is a pipe dream. Look, if you really think defense is the be all, end all, think to the beginning of the last season when Smart was trying his darndest to have a defensive team on the floor. Remember James Johnson? Remember how good he was defensively? He probably was the best defender the Kings had last year until they brought in Douglas. How did that work out for them? It was aweful. It just didn't work because the floor wasn't spaced and the offense was putrid (and Johnson made bonehead moves with the ball). The same thing would happen with Iggy and Tyreke. Tyreke and Iggy are redundant offensive players. As they say on Highlander: There can be only one.

 

[Mass]

Iggy and Tyreke is a non-starter. It won't happen. Too much mediocre outside shooting. Too little floor spacing. And that floor spacing isn't just for Cousins - it's for all of the team. This is a pipe dream. Look, if you really think defense is the be all, end all, think to the beginning of the last season when Smart was trying his darndest to have a defensive team on the floor. Remember James Johnson? Remember how good he was defensively? He probably was the best defender the Kings had last year until they brought in Douglas. How did that work out for them? It was aweful. It just didn't work because the floor wasn't spaced and the offense was putrid (and Johnson made bonehead moves with the ball). The same thing would happen with Iggy and Tyreke. Tyreke and Iggy are redundant offensive players. As they say on Highlander: There can be only one.

Are you really comparing Iggy to James Johnson?!? Johnson sucks, he will be out of the league sooner rather then later. Iggy is an all star, a true pro, a smart player. Is 1000 times the players JJ is. And people are acting like he is the worst shooter in the world. He is not great, but is not awful. Put IT and Patterson out there, and you'll be able to spread the floor.

Anyways, I believe Iggy is the most talented player we'll have at least a small chance to get. We won't get anyone better than him in the FA market, I'm positive. This team needs to start winning now, at least to move on from the Maloofs years and start changing the culture. Once you start winning, getting to the playoffs, you'll be able to get the attention of bigger names (maybe). Right now, we would be blessed to sign Iggy and keep Evans. We would be a much better team, no doubt about it. It's not like we are risking to f*** up a 55 wins team. We need good players, and good FA usually don't come to Sacramento.

 

[sidney]

The great thing about Iggy besides defense is his ball movement. Even though Ty Lawson was the primary ball handler Iggy still got 5.4 assists last year.

If there was ever a way to put Tyreke back at PG, it would be to have a guy like Iggy there facilitating as well. Then put a shooter between them. Maybe it works

 

[Gary]

Not enough spacing. Unless Evans all of a sudden becomes a legit 3pt threat.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

CJ McCollum would make sense as the third guy if we keep Evans and sign Iggy. Not a true point, but a good ball handler who can really space the floor. Wouldn't need to be a high assist man because Iggy and Evans (and Cousins for that matter) can pass.


The cap will be a problem. We could amnesty Salmons, but I would package IT, Jimmer, Patterson, or JT in a deal that would allow us to dump Hayes or Salmons. I'd also be open to trading Thornton, but I still like him on this team going forward.

 

[Kingster]

Are you really comparing Iggy to James Johnson?!? Johnson sucks, he will be out of the league sooner rather then later. Iggy is an all star, a true pro, a smart player. Is 1000 times the players JJ is. And people are acting like he is the worst shooter in the world. He is not great, but is not awful. Put IT and Patterson out there, and you'll be able to spread the floor.

Anyways, I believe Iggy is the most talented player we'll have at least a small chance to get. We won't get anyone better than him in the FA market, I'm positive. This team needs to start winning now, at least to move on from the Maloofs years and start changing the culture. Once you start winning, getting to the playoffs, you'll be able to get the attention of bigger names (maybe). Right now, we would be blessed to sign Iggy and keep Evans. We would be a much better team, no doubt about it. It's not like we are risking to f*** up a 55 wins team. We need good players, and good FA usually don't come to Sacramento.

Their inability to spread the floor is the common element between Johnson and Iggy. If I'm the opposing coach playing against the Kings with Iggy, Tyreke, and Cousins in the lineup I would cheat so much in the paint it would be hilarious. Cousins would take his place 20 feet from the basket because he couldn't find a 3 ft square empty space to occupy, and even if he could CP3 himself couldn't get him the ball in the paint with all the cheating going on. Tyreke wouldn't be able to drive. Iggy wouldn't be able to drive. IT wouldn't be able to drive, (and they'd be crowding him outside because of it). It would be CLANG, CLANG, CLANG off of the rim. Just like what we saw during the first half of last year with that "defensive" lineup. Cousins would get hot periodically, but teams would give him all the 20+ footers he wants and happily take the consequences. Heck, ideally you want FOUR very good outside shooters to go with Cousins. If anything the question should be: do you want to have Tyreke or Iggy if you have Cousins? Is that optimal chemistry? How about having neither?

 

[Section 101]

CJ McCollum would make sense as the third guy if we keep Evans and sign Iggy. Not a true point, but a good ball handler who can really space the floor. Wouldn't need to be a high assist man because Iggy and Evans (and Cousins for that matter) can pass.


The cap will be a problem. We could amnesty Salmons, but I would package IT, Jimmer, Patterson, or JT in a deal that would allow us to dump Hayes or Salmons. I'd also be open to trading Thornton, but I still like him on this team going forward.

Trading people doesn't free cap space when you have to take back salary that's about the same. Teams with cap space are looking at FA not trading for our players.

 

[Padrino]

Iggy and Tyreke is a non-starter. It won't happen. Too much mediocre outside shooting. Too little floor spacing. And that floor spacing isn't just for Cousins - it's for all of the team. This is a pipe dream. Look, if you really think defense is the be all, end all, think to the beginning of the last season when Smart was trying his darndest to have a defensive team on the floor. Remember James Johnson? Remember how good he was defensively? He probably was the best defender the Kings had last year until they brought in Douglas. How did that work out for them? It was aweful. It just didn't work because the floor wasn't spaced and the offense was putrid (and Johnson made bonehead moves with the ball). The same thing would happen with Iggy and Tyreke. Tyreke and Iggy are redundant offensive players. As they say on Highlander: There can be only one.

meh. tired argument. the kings as a team shot better from 3 last season than both the pacers and the grizzlies, two teams who went to their respective conference finals without this vaunted "spacing" that everyone raves about these days. sure, a team like the spurs are a perfection of spacing on offense, but they're also stout, defensively. more to the point, they are an absolute rarity in the contemporary nba, a perfect storm of an organization, as are the heat. both are different models of how to build a winning franchise, but neither model is all that attainable. so, if you're trying to build a young contender in the contemporary nba, you have to get by on defense, which is a tried and true method of making the playoffs...

keith smart gave the kings' defense a chance for all of ten games or so. when the offense sputtered, he panicked, and changed his strategy midstream without giving his defense a chance to develop chemistry, and without giving his team the opportunity to iron out the kinks, offensively. and the kings collapsed into a sea of jumpshots, forsaking defense at all cost, finishing once again in the league's basement. i'll take defense with inconsistent floor spacing and consistent playoff appearances every single season over an utter lack of defense with consistent floor spacing and lottery picks every single season...

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Trading people doesn't free cap space when you have to take back salary that's about the same. Teams with cap space are looking at FA not trading for our players.

Not entirely true. Plenty of different trading options that would free up cap space. How many teams are going to get the big name FA's? This happens every year. Most of the teams with cap space are the teams the big names don't want to play for. If you are a rebuilding team with cap space taking on one year of John Salmons (who can still actually play) for Isaiah Thomas is not a bad deal. I'd even throw Jimmer in there. They get to reset their cap room for next years free agent crop and get a young player out of it. There are also plenty of trade exceptions out there.

There are also players like Paul Pierce that come with a 5mil buyout. If Pierce is going to retire anyway after Doc and KG get dealt to LAC, Boston could send us Pierce for Thomas, Jimmer (Boston likes Jimmer) JT (or Salmons if they would do that) and Hayes for Pierce, we then buyout Pierce and get the cap room.

Just one example, but there are an infinite amount of ways to work the cap. PDA is apparently good at it

 

[Mass]

Their inability to spread the floor is the common element between Johnson and Iggy. If I'm the opposing coach playing against the Kings with Iggy, Tyreke, and Cousins in the lineup I would cheat so much in the paint it would be hilarious. Cousins would take his place 20 feet from the basket because he couldn't find a 3 ft square empty space to occupy, and even if he could CP3 himself couldn't get him the ball in the paint with all the cheating going on. Tyreke wouldn't be able to drive. Iggy wouldn't be able to drive. IT wouldn't be able to drive, (and they'd be crowding him outside because of it). It would be CLANG, CLANG, CLANG off of the rim. Just like what we saw during the first half of last year with that "defensive" lineup. Cousins would get hot periodically, but teams would give him all the 20+ footers he wants and happily take the consequences. Heck, ideally you want FOUR very good outside shooters to go with Cousins. If anything the question should be: do you want to have Tyreke or Iggy if you have Cousins? Is that optimal chemistry? How about having neither?

I wonder how the Grizzlies reached the Western Conference Finals with all that bad spacing. We are such a great team right now that Iggy would destroy our system and make our team much worse. I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem. If you have IT and Patterson out there, you have two good shooters and 2 below average shooters (Reke and Iggy) that can hit the spot up shots. How many 3 point shooters do the Spurs have in their starting 5? Two. Green and Leonard. Parker is a worse 3 point shooter than Iggy and Reke. They really have bad spacing, it's a horrible team.

Cousins with 4 shooters? Sure, the only thing that matters in basketball is shooting. The Magic won a bunch of rings when they had Dwight and 4 shooters. Jump shot teams live and die with their shooting. A great defensive team always has a chance to win a game, even on bad nights.

 

[Kingster]

I wonder how the Grizzlies reached the Western Conference Finals with all that bad spacing. We are such a great team right now that Iggy would destroy our system and make our team much worse. I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem. If you have IT and Patterson out there, you have two good shooters and 2 below average shooters (Reke and Iggy) that can hit the spot up shots. How many 3 point shooters do the Spurs have in their starting 5? Two. Green and Leonard. Parker is a worse 3 point shooter than Iggy and Reke. They really have bad spacing, it's a horrible team.

Cousins with 4 shooters? Sure, the only thing that matters in basketball is shooting. The Magic won a bunch of rings when they had Dwight and 4 shooters. Jump shot teams live and die with their shooting. A great defensive team always has a chance to win a game, even on bad nights.

The Grizzlies have one non-shooting wing, combined with an outside shooting 5,4,3 and 1. That's the difference. And if you watched the Grizz against the Spurs, that non-shooting wing made a big difference in the 0-4 outcome.

As for Cousins with 4 shooters, I think it's axiomatic that you'd rather have four shooters around Cousins, all other things being equal. It's not even an argument on an abstract level. It's when you get into specifics and how much you need to trade off to get the shooting player, that's where the compromises occur. I don't see a problem, though, over at GS with four shooters on the floor, and their big guy isn't as good talentwise down low as Cuz, so there's an example for you if you need concreteness. And coincidentally we've got some GS roots on our team so maybe that's applicable to our future?

 

[Section 101]

Not entirely true. Plenty of different trading options that would free up cap space. How many teams are going to get the big name FA's? This happens every year. Most of the teams with cap space are the teams the big names don't want to play for. If you are a rebuilding team with cap space taking on one year of John Salmons (who can still actually play) for Isaiah Thomas is not a bad deal. I'd even throw Jimmer in there. They get to reset their cap room for next years free agent crop and get a young player out of it. There are also plenty of trade exceptions out there.

There are also players like Paul Pierce that come with a 5mil buyout. If Pierce is going to retire anyway after Doc and KG get dealt to LAC, Boston could send us Pierce for Thomas, Jimmer (Boston likes Jimmer) JT (or Salmons if they would do that) and Hayes for Pierce, we then buyout Pierce and get the cap room.

Just one example, but there are an infinite amount of ways to work the cap. PDA is apparently good at it

Buyout does not clear cap room it counts against the cap. Plus it doesn't work that way. Pierce can't be traded till either his option is picked up or until after FA starts and that would be past the buyout date.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

I would the love a Evans-Iggy-Demarcus trio but what are the chances of Iguodala atually coming here? We are speaking as if getting Iggy is a surefire situation.

 

[William Blake]

I wonder how the Grizzlies reached the Western Conference Finals with all that bad spacing. We are such a great team right now that Iggy would destroy our system and make our team much worse. I'm sorry, but I don't see the problem. If you have IT and Patterson out there, you have two good shooters and 2 below average shooters (Reke and Iggy) that can hit the spot up shots. How many 3 point shooters do the Spurs have in their starting 5? Two. Green and Leonard. Parker is a worse 3 point shooter than Iggy and Reke. They really have bad spacing, it's a horrible team.

Cousins with 4 shooters? Sure, the only thing that matters in basketball is shooting. The Magic won a bunch of rings when they had Dwight and 4 shooters. Jump shot teams live and die with their shooting. A great defensive team always has a chance to win a game, even on bad nights.

I'm not against signing Iguodala but if Cousins, IT and Patterson get relevant minutes together you still don't have a great enough defense to justify the poor offensive fit.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Buyout does not clear cap room it counts against the cap. Plus it doesn't work that way. Pierce can't be traded till either his option is picked up or until after FA starts and that would be past the buyout date.

The buyout counts against the cap at 5 million, but you can trade him as a player who is being paid 15 million, saving you 10 million.

You may be right about the second part, although I've read nothing that suggests you are right, and I've read quite a few things that mention this (trading him before June 30th, with the new team waiving him for 5Mil before june 30th) as an option.


Here is a source fron NESN (New England Sports Network). http://nesn.com/2013/05/paul-pierce...ams-has-nothing-to-do-with-playing-abilities/

 

[Section 101]

The buyout counts against the cap at 5 million, but you can trade him as a player who is being paid 15 million, saving you 10 million.

You may be right about the second part, although I've read nothing that suggests you are right, and I've read quite a few things that mention this (trading him before June 30th, with the new team waiving him for 5Mil before june 30th) as an option.


Here is a source fron NESN (New England Sports Network). http://nesn.com/2013/05/paul-pierce...ams-has-nothing-to-do-with-playing-abilities/

It still doesn't make sense. You can just amnesty Salmons to get $7 mill where your trade gets you $10 mill. You then could decline Jimmers option to free up his salary and your basically right at the same $10 mil savings and still have Thomas and Hayes to work with trades.

I don't have access to the cbafaq right now, but you cannot trade a player before June 30th that is not currently under contract for next year. I'm not sure how that applies to a buy out, but the buyout has to be done before June 30th.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

It still doesn't make sense. You can just amnesty Salmons to get $7 mill where your trade gets you $10 mill. You then could decline Jimmers option to free up his salary and your basically right at the same $10 mil savings and still have Thomas and Hayes to work with trades.

I don't have access to the cbafaq right now, but you cannot trade a player before June 30th that is not currently under contract for next year. I'm not sure how that applies to a buy out, but the buyout has to be done before June 30th.

Pierce is under contract, and his contract rights (buyout) stay with him, so I don't see the issue. As long as you do it before June 30th, of course.

And as far as making sense, well, who else is taking Hayes? And you could use JT or Thornton instead of Salmons and still amnesty Salmons if we wanted to do a massive cap overhall. Plenty of scenarios where we could save more money in a Pierce deal.

Just one option though. Just wanted to respond to you for saying it was't allowed, and that we couldn't trade for cap space =]

 

[Section 101]

Pierce is under contract, and his contract rights (buyout) stay with him, so I don't see the issue. As long as you do it before June 30th, of course.

And as far as making sense, well, who else is taking Hayes? And you could use JT or Thornton instead of Salmons and still amnesty Salmons if we wanted to do a massive cap overhall. Plenty of scenarios where we could save more money in a Pierce deal.

Just one option though. Just wanted to respond to you for saying it was't allowed, and that we couldn't trade for cap space =]

From what I read on twitter the only trade the celtics would do is for an exemption. They are better off buying him out for the cap space to go after josh smith.

 

[sidney]

From what I read on twitter the only trade the celtics would do is for an exemption. They are better off buying him out for the cap space to go after josh smith.

That doesn't sound right. Even if they buy Pierce out for his (lower) guaranteed money they can't go after a free agent like Josh Smith since they are WAY over the cap. Ainge will be shopping the Pierce deal for some value before June 30. Who knows if we offer that or not, but I highly doubt they force Pierce to stay there all year without Doc or KG. If the Celtics deal goes down, the Pierce deal will follow in the next two weeks.

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
How? Celts trade him this month to team that buys him out for cap savings by June 30 deadline in Pierce's contract. Or Celts can buy him out.

 

[Section 101]

That doesn't sound right. Even if they buy Pierce out for his (lower) guaranteed money they can't go after a free agent like Josh Smith since they are WAY over the cap. Ainge will be shopping the Pierce deal for some value before June 30. Who knows if we offer that or not, but I highly doubt they force Pierce to stay there all year without Doc or KG. If the Celtics deal goes down, the Pierce deal will follow in the next two weeks.

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
How? Celts trade him this month to team that buys him out for cap savings by June 30 deadline in Pierce's contract. Or Celts can buy him out.

were talking if they do the deal to the clips. They would trade rondo too if they get bledsoe.

 

[Telemachus]

Their inability to spread the floor is the common element between Johnson and Iggy. If I'm the opposing coach playing against the Kings with Iggy, Tyreke, and Cousins in the lineup I would cheat so much in the paint it would be hilarious. Cousins would take his place 20 feet from the basket because he couldn't find a 3 ft square empty space to occupy, and even if he could CP3 himself couldn't get him the ball in the paint with all the cheating going on. Tyreke wouldn't be able to drive. Iggy wouldn't be able to drive. IT wouldn't be able to drive, (and they'd be crowding him outside because of it). It would be CLANG, CLANG, CLANG off of the rim. Just like what we saw during the first half of last year with that "defensive" lineup. Cousins would get hot periodically, but teams would give him all the 20+ footers he wants and happily take the consequences. Heck, ideally you want FOUR very good outside shooters to go with Cousins. If anything the question should be: do you want to have Tyreke or Iggy if you have Cousins? Is that optimal chemistry? How about having neither?

While Iggy will never be accused of being a great outside shooter, comparing him to JJ is insulting. Iggy is a career 33% shooter from the 3, with his best season shooting at 39% (he has averaged 2.8 attempts a game). James Johnson is a career 27% 3pt shooter with a career best 32.6% (rookie season) while averaging .7 shot attempts a game. The difference is that teams never even bothered trying to guard JJ this season. And while they could play off of Iggy some, if you leave him unguarded he will make you pay.

 

[ParniValjak]

The great thing about Iggy besides defense is his ball movement. Even though Ty Lawson was the primary ball handler Iggy still got 5.4 assists last year.

If there was ever a way to put Tyreke back at PG, it would be to have a guy like Iggy there facilitating as well. Then put a shooter between them. Maybe it works

People using JJ as an example of why it won't work with Iggy are just on crack. They are completely different ball players. Iggy is an all around player, a glue guy and someone who as you rightly pointed out is an excellent passer. He is not a ball stopper, he is a ball mover. Think of Doug Christie type player.

He is not a great shooter but he will hit it if he is left open. He is an excellent defender, an excellent passer and ball carrier. I would love to see that combination. Iggy is a team player and in Denver averaged something like 13 ppg this season. That is perfect for us. It might even give us a genuine chance of trying Tyreke-Thornton backcourt again with Iggy as the glue guy SF who shares the ball handling duties with Tyreke.

Cousins will obviously be option #1, Tyreke will get enough looks as a PG, Iggy is a great defender and passer who would initiate a lot of the offence along with Tyreke, Thornton is your long range threat. You also would ideally like some spacing from the PF which is where Patterson might come in to start until we find that ever elusive shot blocker.

A line up of

PG: Evans
SG: Thornton
SF: Iggy
PF: Patterson
C: Cousins

would at least be interesting to watch. Even if we decided to move Thornton and keep Evans at SG, all you really need at PG is a excellent long range shooter who helps with the ball handling. It would probably be better since then we would have 3 ball handlers on the court instead of 2 if we went with Evans-Thornton backcourt.

 

[sidney]

were talking if they do the deal to the clips. They would trade rondo too if they get bledsoe.

As am I. The deal with the clips sends D Jordan back to Boston so has little or no affect on their cap space. Doesn't matter what they do with the clips or Pierce, Boston is not going to go from 73M committed next year to having enough room to go after any meaningful FA. Only thing they can do is make trades.

 

[Kingsfan23]

A quality role player, who should be paid as a quality role player