sloter
Starter
There is no reason why I would believe that the Pistons would be able to keep up with the Suns speed. Even if you look talent wise the Suns are better than the Pistons on positions 1 through 5, including the bench and the coach.
Hypothetical: Suns v. Pistons... Who wins? (split)
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There is no reason why I would believe that the Pistons would be able to keep up with the Suns speed. Even if you look talent wise the Suns are better than the Pistons on positions 1 through 5, including the bench and the coach.
Nash vs. Billups - Nash has been great, but Billups has proven that he can get it done at the highest level. Push
Bell vs. Hamilton - They will neutralize each other. Push
Jones/Marion vs. Prince - Depends on who D'Antoni starts between Jones and Diaw: If it's Jones, then the edge goes to the Pistons. If it's Diaw, then Marion moves to his natural position and gives the Suns the edge... but not by much. People like to say that Marion is the most underrated player in the NBA, but that will never be true as long as Tayshaun Prince is in the NBA...
Marion/Diaw vs. Wallace - It doesn't matter whether Jones or Diaw starts, because Sheed is better than either Diaw or Marion. Edge: Pistons
Stoudemire vs. Webber - It goes without saying that I have a higher opinion of Webber than you do, and I feel that, on a team where he's not expected to be the man and carry the load, his unique skill set will pay big dividends in the Finals... Still, I'll give the edge to the man-beast. Edge: Suns
Bench:
Barbosa vs Murray
Thomas vs McDyess
Diaw/Jones vs Delfino
??? vs Hunter
??? vs Maxiell
??? vs Davis
You can't seriously believe that a team with what is ostensibly a six-man rotation has a better bench than Detroit. D'Antoni is probably a better coach than Saunders, but as far as the Suns being a better team, I'm not seeing it.
All of which is moot, anyway, because the Suns aren't getting past San Antonio. The Spurs have already proven that they can convincingly handle the Suns with Stoudemire being Dominant (capital D)... and Popovich is decidedly a better coach than D'Antoni.
piksi
Hall of Famer
Nash vs. Billups - Nash has been great, but Billups has proven that he can get it done at the highest level. Push
Bell vs. Hamilton - They will neutralize each other. Push
Jones/Marion vs. Prince - Depends on who D'Antoni starts between Jones and Diaw: If it's Jones, then the edge goes to the Pistons. If it's Diaw, then Marion moves to his natural position and gives the Suns the edge... but not by much. People like to say that Marion is the most underrated player in the NBA, but that will never be true as long as Tayshaun Prince is in the NBA...
Marion/Diaw vs. Wallace - It doesn't matter whether Jones or Diaw starts, because Sheed is better than either Diaw or Marion. Edge: Pistons
Stoudemire vs. Webber - It goes without saying that I have a higher opinion of Webber than you do, and I feel that, on a team where he's not expected to be the man and carry the load, his unique skill set will pay big dividends in the Finals... Still, I'll give the edge to the man-beast. Edge: Suns
Bench:
Barbosa vs Murray
Thomas vs McDyess
Diaw/Jones vs Delfino
??? vs Hunter
??? vs Maxiell
??? vs Davis
You can't seriously believe that a team with what is ostensibly a six-man rotation has a better bench than Detroit. D'Antoni is probably a better coach than Saunders, but as far as the Suns being a better team, I'm not seeing it.
All of which is moot, anyway, because the Suns aren't getting past San Antonio. The Spurs have already proven that they can convincingly handle the Suns with Stoudemire being Dominant (capital D)... and Popovich is decidedly a better coach than D'Antoni.
that would be "abuse" right there.
Suns are way more talented but Pistons have more experience. As for Suns vs Spurs - looks like a 7 game series to me
How can you say that the Suns are "way more talented" when they only have a clear advantage at one position and, depending on who starts, a noticeable dis-advantage at two?
LOL at this....
If I could pick ONE team to play in the finals, should the Pistons make it, I'd pick the Suns.
Actually, that's not fair. Out of the 8 teams in the West, I'd pick Phoenix 3rd, behind LA and Denver.
From someone who has seen Detroit and Phoenix play over the last 3 years, there is no worse matchup in the NBA for the Suns than the Pistons.
Phoenix in the last 3 years has not figured out a way to make us play at their tempo. I'd gladly put my money in them against Phoenix in a 7-game series. Billups defends Nash better than any PG in the league.
If I could pick ONE team to play in the finals, should the Pistons make it, I'd pick the Suns.
Actually, that's not fair. Out of the 8 teams in the West, I'd pick Phoenix 3rd, behind LA and Denver.
From someone who has seen Detroit and Phoenix play over the last 3 years, there is no worse matchup in the NBA for the Suns than the Pistons.
Phoenix in the last 3 years has not figured out a way to make us play at their tempo. I'd gladly put my money in them against Phoenix in a 7-game series. Billups defends Nash better than any PG in the league.
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sloter
Starter
I hope that you are not counting Barbosa as a noticeable disadvantage at two ? The combo of Nash, Barbosa, Bell and Jones at guards is a combo of two of the most potent offensive guards and two of the best defensive guards in the league. Pick your poison.
Stoudamire is better than Rasheed, and Marion and Diaw are better than Webber and McDyess. Through in Kurt Thomas just in the case any of these guys get in the foul trouble or if you want to neutralize low post threat and there you have it.
I would actually not be surprised if the Pistons don't go past the Bulls. I think that a talentwise comparison would be more suitable between those two teams.
Could someone explain to me how Phoenix would run all over Detroit if they're taking the ball out from under their own basket every possession?
I mean, because you might want to inform Phoenix of that, since they haven't figured it out yet...
As for Chicago, that's a backyard brawl series, akin to Miami/NY or Dallas/SA, where anything can happen. I do fear the Bulls though, probably a little more than I fear the Suns. The bulls actually play defense.
I mean, because you might want to inform Phoenix of that, since they haven't figured it out yet...
As for Chicago, that's a backyard brawl series, akin to Miami/NY or Dallas/SA, where anything can happen. I do fear the Bulls though, probably a little more than I fear the Suns. The bulls actually play defense.
sloter
Starter
And how many times have you actually seen a healthy Phoenix Suns squad play your Detroit Pistons during those 3 years ?
Nash vs Billups I've seen 5 times over the last 3 years, and Billups has taken Nash's lunch money in 4 of them. Billups can guard Nash, but Nash can't guard Billups.
If you're referring to Amare, you're right. We don't have anyone to stop him.
However, Amare can't defend Webber either, nor can Marion defend Rasheed Wallace, who beats him like a drum most of the time we play Phoenix. On top of that, Diaw isn't strong enough to keep Dice off of the low block, and Prince has enough length to post any of Phoenix's guards.
The reason the Suns have so much trouble with the Pistons is because we have 5 guys that can both score and pass. There is no weak link to sag or trap off of. We run our offense for 15 seconds or so, and eventually Phoenix breaks down and we either get a layup or an open three or two free throws.
Every time we play Phoenix, we slow the tempo down, and Phoenix is a terrible defensive team in a slower game. Over the course of 48 minutes, eventually they start missing those off-rhythm threes and we grind them into the floor.
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In any case, I'm not comfortable with discussing a possible Suns/Pistons final, since we aren't even out of the 2nd round yet.
Chicago, which probably has less talent than Phoenix, matches up with us a hell of a lot better than most teams, including Phoenix. I'd prefer to focus on that right now.
Chicago, which probably has less talent than Phoenix, matches up with us a hell of a lot better than most teams, including Phoenix. I'd prefer to focus on that right now.
Eh, it isn't much of a theory. Amare doesn't play defense for fear of foul trouble, so Webber just backs him up under the hoop and scores on him all game. He dunked on Amare several times last time we played the Suns.
No, We don't shut down Amare, but we let Amare do his thing and keep most of our defensive pressure on Nash. In the end, Amare gets his 25-30, but nobody else on the Suns gets any open looks.
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sloter
Starter
True. Prince will be able to slow down Deng, so Ben Gordon will probably be the key in this series.
Diaw is NOT better than McDyess. Marion might be better than Webber, but Marion is not going to be playing Webber; he's going to be playing Wallace... and Marion is NOT better than Wallace. And you know what? For all of that, it would be foolish to try and play Marion against Webber, because that actually DOES give Webber the advantage, by allowing Webber (who has demonstrated a surprising willingness to play in the paint for Detroit) the capitalize on the weakest part of Marion's game. Webber would kill Marion in the post, and if they switched defensive assignments, then Sheed would kill Marion in the post.
And, as I said, it's a moot point because Phoenix isn't going to beat San Antonio.
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The thing that has to be mentioned here is, this isn't a one-on-one tournament, last time I checked. Comparing positions by positions is as misleading as you can get in basketball.
Sure, Nash is a 2-time MVP and a cut about Billups in terms of pedigree. But when they play each other, Billups is almost always the better player without exception, because he matches up so well with Nash in so many different areas.
Sure, Nash is a 2-time MVP and a cut about Billups in terms of pedigree. But when they play each other, Billups is almost always the better player without exception, because he matches up so well with Nash in so many different areas.
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sloter
Starter
Well, you can't really base your "theory" on that one game. Especially, considering that Webber shows up like that only once in four or five games.
Even Kwame outplayed Amare in one game last week.
Besides, moving Kurt Thomas to Webber solves that problem immediately, so that's another 6 fouls in the case you're worried about foul trouble.
And if you think that Amare is afraid of foul trouble, do you think that Webber might be a little worried about catching up with the Suns frontcourt on the fast break ?
Hell, I'll drink to that; "position-by-position," Dallas should have slaughtered Golden State.
...so Phoenix would be starting the series off by basically saying they can't beat us at their game, so they have to adjust and play ours?
I mean, sure they can start Thomas, but they'd lose a lot of what made them a 60-win team. They'd be trying to beat us at OUR game, which almost nobody can do.
sloter said:
...and again I ask, how is Phoenix supposed to run on us when they're constantly taking the ball out from under their own basket?
Webber has plenty of time to get back on defense at that point....
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He probably would be, but unlike the Lakers, the Pistons don't take a lot of bad shots, and there aren't going to be as many fast break opportunities... Sure, the Suns will still be running off of made baskets, too, but that second and a half makes a big difference at the NBA level when it comes to setting up your defense.
sloter
Starter
Kurt Thomas would probably play Webber for 15-20 mins. Stoudamire to PF and Marion to SF. That solves any defensive problem that Phoenix may have with the Pistons frontcourt.
I wouldn't write Phoenix off against the Spurs either.
...actually, they already tried that. Sheed stood outside the arc and hit three straight open threes while Amare played off him.
On the other end, we had a fun time trapping Amare and funneling the ball to Kurt Thomas, and letting him attempt to beat us.
a few minutes later, D'Antoni scrapped that idea...
Why the hell not? Aside from the fact that the Spurs are a smarter basketball team, better coached, better defensively and have championship pedigree, the last time the Suns played the Spurs, Nash averaged 23 and 11 (on 52%), and Stoudemire averaged a ridiculous 37 and 10 (on 55%)... and the Suns lost in five! Why the heck would their chances be any better now? What, is Amare going to average fifty?
sloter
Starter
Playing Kurt Thomas for 15 or 20 minutes a game does not mean that Suns would be stepping away from their game. He's been playing that much during the season and that's exactly his assignment in the game.
And "position-by-position" Dallas is not better than GS.
Warriors' back court is obviously much better.
And "position-by-position" Dallas is not better than GS.
Warriors' back court is obviously much better.
sloter
Starter
Leandro Barbosa, Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw and THAT experience.
No, you suggested he play against Webber, and that would mean that you'd be STARTING him, since Webber is a starter.
If the Suns START Kurt Thomas, they aren't establishing much of anything in terms of a running tempo.
sloter
Starter
Webber doesn't play that much and doesn't really get that many plays called for him anyway (at least in the playoffs, most of his points have been 2nd chance points and layups). Between Amare and Kurt Thomas it should be no problem, no matter if Amare starts at C or PF.
I don't think that Webber is any more of a low post threat than were Kwame Brown or Bynum.
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you really, really don't watch the Pistons play, do you....Um, we don't run our offense through the same people every night.
We run our offense as matchups dictate. Webber was playing against Dwight Howard last series. Why the hell would we force the ball to him when we can beat up on their midget point guards?
We attack weak defensive links. Vs the Bulls, that's going to be Ben Gordon and Ben Wallace (man-to-man).
Against the Suns, that's typically Amare and Nash, although nobody aside from Raja is very good defensively on that team. Marion is gritty but he's sadly undersized in the paint. We'd be throwing it into Webber, Dice, Billups and Sheed in the post for 48 minutes.
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sloter
Starter
Um, we don't run our offense through the same people every night.
We run our offense as matchups dictate. Webber was playing against Dwight Howard last series. Why the hell would we force the ball to him when we can beat up on their midget point guards?
We attack weak defensive links. Vs the Bulls, that's going to be Ben Gordon and Ben Wallace (man-to-man).
Against the Suns, that's typically Amare and Nash, although nobody aside from Raja is very good defensively on that team. Marion is gritty but he's sadly undersized in the paint.
Marion is a small forward. And is excellent size for SF. One could argue that Webber is the worst defensive forward in the league and you're talking about defensive problems on the inside. If you watched the Pistons enough, then you know that's all about help defense and the Suns are pretty good at that too.
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