And yet is only 0.1 apg off his Sac-era career average...nbrans said:
So all those passes to Abdur-Rahim and Thomas in the low post, those are figments of my imagination?nbrans said:
This is not encouraging news for Kings Fans.nbrans said:
How hurt IS Peja.
- Thread starter mcsluggo
- Start date
nbrans
All-Star
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Bibby's assist numbers are down 1.3 from last season. By comparison, that's down more than Shareef's rebounding numbers. It's a pretty significant difference. Yes, his assist numbers are roughly where they were back when the offense went through Vlade and Webber, but times have changed and Bibby needs to assume more of the distribution role rather than dribbling down, coming off a screen and hoisting jump shots without a pass. And he's certainly not looking to set up Peja.
Half the time, Stojakovic seems to position himself on the opposite side of the court from Bibby, and does appear to work overly hard to get himself open; how is Bibby supposed to set him up like that?
Padrino
All-Star
why do people so constantly make excuses for peja?
"oh, poor peja, vlade and doug aren't around anymore to set him up." "oh, boo hoo, peja's not healthy enough to play to his full potential" "oh no, bibby doesn't look to set up pej anymore."
what did peja stojakovic ever do in his career as a sacramento king to deserve any kind of preferential treatment? at one point, people got down on bobby jackson, of all people, for not playing through the pain of his abdominal strain (a strain that put him out half the season). but peja gets babied through another injury plagued season? why? most nba players have to deal with injuries at some point in their careers. a guy like karl malone is a freakish example of proper conditioning and a streak of incredible luck, but how often do these near-injury-free careers occur, especially for nba starters? they don't occur very often. peja's not special in that regard. he's just another nba player who has to deal with the struggles of injury. so again, i ask, why the preferential treatment? i gotta know what makes the peja-sympathizers tick. i see a guy who's got zero passion for the game. at one time, it seemed like he had it. but those days are gone. what do all you peja-homers see in him anymore? i just don't get it. i don't make excuses for my kings. i never have and i never will.
maybe, as a fan, i'm too hard on them, and need to lower my expectations. however, peja stojakovic makes more money in a year than i, at age 18, will ever see for the rest of my life, and i flat out refuse to even sympathize with such a long term display of uninspired basketball. don't come to earn a paycheck. don't come to wait for people to pass you the ball. don't come to go through the motions. come to play. come to win. come for the opportunity to be a champion. settle for nothing less. imo, as a fan, that's not too much to ask.
"oh, poor peja, vlade and doug aren't around anymore to set him up." "oh, boo hoo, peja's not healthy enough to play to his full potential" "oh no, bibby doesn't look to set up pej anymore."
what did peja stojakovic ever do in his career as a sacramento king to deserve any kind of preferential treatment? at one point, people got down on bobby jackson, of all people, for not playing through the pain of his abdominal strain (a strain that put him out half the season). but peja gets babied through another injury plagued season? why? most nba players have to deal with injuries at some point in their careers. a guy like karl malone is a freakish example of proper conditioning and a streak of incredible luck, but how often do these near-injury-free careers occur, especially for nba starters? they don't occur very often. peja's not special in that regard. he's just another nba player who has to deal with the struggles of injury. so again, i ask, why the preferential treatment? i gotta know what makes the peja-sympathizers tick. i see a guy who's got zero passion for the game. at one time, it seemed like he had it. but those days are gone. what do all you peja-homers see in him anymore? i just don't get it. i don't make excuses for my kings. i never have and i never will.
maybe, as a fan, i'm too hard on them, and need to lower my expectations. however, peja stojakovic makes more money in a year than i, at age 18, will ever see for the rest of my life, and i flat out refuse to even sympathize with such a long term display of uninspired basketball. don't come to earn a paycheck. don't come to wait for people to pass you the ball. don't come to go through the motions. come to play. come to win. come for the opportunity to be a champion. settle for nothing less. imo, as a fan, that's not too much to ask.
^^And that's the paradox of being a player fan vs. a team fan in a lot of instances.
Peja Stojakovic did a LOT for this franchise. He's foever going to be a part of the memories of those glory days when we were so close to winning it all. It was exciting to watch and be a part of...
There's been a horrendous amount of drama around this team since the day Webber crumpled to the floor in Dallas. Slowly but surely, the excitement and fun were replaced by drama, innuendo, intrigue, rumors, more rumors, allegations, hit pieces by local media people, etc.
Peja is bearing the brunt of a lot of pent up frustration IMHO on the part of a lot of Kings fans who just don't want to let go of the past. It's not 2003 any more. It's not even 2004. It's 2006 and we cannot go back as much as we might like to...
No basketball player on earth can possibly live up to all the expectations of his rabid fans. Peja was put on a pedastal by some - as Bricklayer has pointed out - and now they're disappointed by his feet of clay. Others didn't raise him to quite that elevation but still expected more of him than he was able to deliver. Still others are frustrated by the apparent lack of reality expressed by some "Peja homers."
Peja is just a man. He's got strengths and weaknesses. He's a professional athlete, meaning his job is to play a game. Someone has to win in a game and someone has to lose. When he and the Kings are winning, everything is fine. But when the team loses, fans have to look somewhere for a reason.
Part of being a sports fan is remembering that it's a game. It's played with very expensive pieces on really expensive courts, but it's still just a game. Just like there are a lot of different reasons why we're fans, there are a lot of different motivations that contribute to people becoming professional athletes. Some of them just may not have the characteristics we really want them to have but that's on us. No one is perfect.
Peja Stojakovic did a LOT for this franchise. He's foever going to be a part of the memories of those glory days when we were so close to winning it all. It was exciting to watch and be a part of...
There's been a horrendous amount of drama around this team since the day Webber crumpled to the floor in Dallas. Slowly but surely, the excitement and fun were replaced by drama, innuendo, intrigue, rumors, more rumors, allegations, hit pieces by local media people, etc.
Peja is bearing the brunt of a lot of pent up frustration IMHO on the part of a lot of Kings fans who just don't want to let go of the past. It's not 2003 any more. It's not even 2004. It's 2006 and we cannot go back as much as we might like to...
No basketball player on earth can possibly live up to all the expectations of his rabid fans. Peja was put on a pedastal by some - as Bricklayer has pointed out - and now they're disappointed by his feet of clay. Others didn't raise him to quite that elevation but still expected more of him than he was able to deliver. Still others are frustrated by the apparent lack of reality expressed by some "Peja homers."
Peja is just a man. He's got strengths and weaknesses. He's a professional athlete, meaning his job is to play a game. Someone has to win in a game and someone has to lose. When he and the Kings are winning, everything is fine. But when the team loses, fans have to look somewhere for a reason.
Part of being a sports fan is remembering that it's a game. It's played with very expensive pieces on really expensive courts, but it's still just a game. Just like there are a lot of different reasons why we're fans, there are a lot of different motivations that contribute to people becoming professional athletes. Some of them just may not have the characteristics we really want them to have but that's on us. No one is perfect.
nbrans
All-Star
Padrino said:
Peja's a flawed player. He can't get it done by himself. However, he's flawed in the same sense as Reggie Miller. Maybe Reggie Miller was able to take the ball to the hole through sheer craftiness, but his entire team knew they needed to free him and look for him and set as many screens as possible to get him a shot. Peja used to be surrounded by guys who made him better. Now he's not. It doesn't necessarily mean Peja has no heart or Peja doesn't care. He's just limited by the effectiveness of the players around him.
Now, I'm not saying Peja = Reggie Miller, who is one of the great clutch players of all time and obviously a player of a different caliber, but I'm just using him as an example of how outside shooting can be utilized by a team looking to free up looks for a good shooter.
I'm no Peja homer, I absolutely think the Kings need to get rid of him and get a SF who can compete athletically with some of the superstars in the league. But at the same time, people are extremely unfair to him. Peja has shown much more dedication on defense than Bibby ever has, lately he's shown some inclination on the boards. Sure, Peja may not have a "killer instinct" and like I said, he's deeply flawed. But he still has amazing skills that just aren't being utilized. Some of that is his fault, some of it isn't.
nbrans said:
This is a big part of the problem, IMHO. WHY is it necessary to build Peja up at the expense of another player?
Peja and Mike are like apples and oregano. They each have strengths and weaknesses, they have assets and liabilities. Each should be viewed in their own light, and not necessarily in comparison to each other.
Why don't people compare Jason Hart and Brian Skinner?
nbrans
All-Star
VF21 said:This is a big part of the problem, IMHO. WHY is it necessary to build Peja up at the expense of another player?
Peja and Mike are like apples and oregano. They each have strengths and weaknesses, they have assets and liabilities. Each should be viewed in their own light, and not necessarily in comparison to each other.
Why don't people compare Jason Hart and Brian Skinner?
I know what you mean, and I hate to make petty comparisons like that, but a certain amount of comparison is inevitable when one player tends to be a whipping boy around these parts and one is a sacred cow.
nbrans said:
"Whipping boy" and "sacred cow" are like apples and oregano.
Sorry, but it's buzz words like that IMHO that lead to a lot of the problems. People have, over the past few years, been at both extremes. These things go in cycles.
If the old threads - back from before the crash of Sept 2004 - were still around you'd be able to see a whole different take on both players. There was a time when Peja was the golden boy and Bibby was hated by many because he took Jason's place...
When you walk in during the second act, you sometimes miss a lot of important stuff.
JJ22L
Starter
VF21 said:
Usually im on your side VF...but that right there i totally disagree with. 18 years of soccer 9 years of football etc etc...if you love your sport ITS NOT JUST A GAME...its your life. I would count the seconds to get out there and put my heart into your so called "just a game". "Just a game" gets you loses. "Just a game" is passionless, heartless, effortless, that attitude is peja right now. I loved peja when he wanted it...when it wasnt "just a game for him"...now it is...and thats why im pissed. Im not pissed because he cant do things i already dont expect from him. Im pissed because hes not doing the things i DO expect from him.
Edit: When have you seen peja show emotion on the court, i know emotion isnt always a good thing but think about it. Bibby throws his headband, brad does that im going to cry thing, thomas gets technical, SAR curses (im not a talented lip reader, but ive seen him angry multiple times), doug hits fox, webber yelled, vlade flopped (form of emotion
) hell even adelman gets a technical every once and a while....hes emotionless, in crunch time thats completely and utterly fine, if he provided in crunch time, I.E. WCF airball. The great ones are filled with emotion, then calm it at certain times. Peja is just soft, always has been always will, and if you can provide proff otherwise ill be happy to argue.Im not for trading peja just to trade him, im for trading peja for someone who wont vegetablize (if thats a word, i made an action verb word out of a noun...interesting), and provide something on a court, even if it is the intangibles, because as of now peja dosent even provide that.
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love_them_kings
Starter
JJ22L said:Usually im on your side VF...but that right there i totally disagree with. 18 years of soccer 9 years of football etc etc...if you love your sport ITS NOT JUST A GAME...its your life. I would count the seconds to get out there and put my heart into your so called "just a game". "Just a game" gets you loses. "Just a game" is passionless, heartless, effortless, that attitude is peja right now...
Edit: When have you seen peja show emotion on the court, i know emotion isnt always a good thing but think about it. Bibby throws his headband, brad does that im going to cry thing, thomas gets technical, SAR curses (im not a talented lip reader, but ive seen him angry multiple times), doug hits fox, webber yelled, vlade flopped (form of emotion
yes, if you love a sport it is more than just a game. But, not all professional athletes feel the same way. Some of them are in there because they LOVE the game, because they are passionate about winning, and because they can't imagine their life without it. These are your Jerry Rices, your Joe Montanas, your Chris Webbers, whose identity and purpose in life is tied into the sport they play. And, yes, I love those players whose passion is contagious & who would do ANYTHING to win. But, there's the other players. They are the players who are just exceptionally gifted at a sport, and yes, they have some love of the game (could hardly excel in it if they hated it) but they recognize that life outside it exists. Keep in mind, it is their JOB. How many of us are more passionate about our job than we are our families, our hobbies, or even our sports teams?
I'm not trying to argue with you. Peja isn't my favorite player, and part of the reason is that I prefer the passionate players. The Doug Christies or Bobby Jacksons that really have the passion to win. But you don't have to show emotion to be an exceptional player. It doesn't hurt, but it's not required. Just look at Tim Duncan.
Again, I haven't been a big fan of Peja since he asked for the trade, but in some ways I think he's trying harder this season. It may just be me, but it seems like he's trying harder to rebound, hustling more on defense, and acting a little more involved with the game. His shooting is just off. Way off. Whether or not that's the fault of his injuries, and what his injuries mean... well, that's another story.
kennadog
Dog On It!
I don't think Mike is all that durable. He seems to have foot, ankle, knee problems with some degree of regularity.bench_blob said:
As for Pedja, I think its probably a combination of all the factors listed. And the truth is, Pedja might have been right when he said maybe a change of scenery for him AND for the Kings would have been a good thing.
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GoGoGadget
All-Star
mcsluggo said:
Yes.
Bad Boy Bo
Bench
Doesn't matter what it is, I hope him and the rest of the Kings the best. He's still a King. As long he's wearing that jersey, he's an All-star to me. He gave us great memories, along with the other Kings of past. But he's not done, he's still on the roster. So until Petrie (and let Petrie do his job) does anything, or if he's going to do anything at all. Peja is going to be favored by me as much as any other King is. Playing with no heart? Through the injuries and deciding that he wants to play those days when he's listed by day-to-day is enough heart for me.
Go Kings!
Go Kings!
Purple Reign
Starter
Rumor Alert!!!
A caller on 1140, someone that has a well placed source said that Peja returned to Sac today to take a physical. DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER
, please. That is what the caller said.
A caller on 1140, someone that has a well placed source said that Peja returned to Sac today to take a physical. DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER
, please. That is what the caller said.
mcsluggo
Starter
Padrino said:
What an absolute steaming mound of bile-filled bunk
People alway making excuses for Peja? On this board? It was definately true 2 years ago, but more recently people have been more inclined to accuse the dude of scoring points for the opposition, killing kittens, and pissing in their wheaties.
Peja gets babied through another injury plagued season? I'm sorry, but until this year he has EASILY been one of the kings most consitantly healthy players. He Vlade and Doug were almost always there for the Kings. Webber, Bjax, Bibby are the ones who broke down. If you are gonna crucify the guy, at least choose some of his multitude of sins
He makes more money than you? Boo hoo. So does Donald Trump, and he is a much more useless turd. You are going to find all sorts of drug dealers, mafioso, talentless scrubs and sychophantic asskissing jackasses that make more money than you. You better start getting used to it. Brent Price Made more than you will likely ever make, so does Jamaal Sampson. get over it, it doesn't affect you.
Whose passion HAVE you been a fan of this year? Nail Clipper? Bitter beer face? I've liked the passion of Bonzi and Garcia. Period. And I'm well aware that one of those two guys' "passion" is going to transform into the sort of passion we usually see in movies like "scarface" and Jason Returns", and the other guy seems thus far to be passion wrapped around the brains of a grape.
Peja is a flawed player. He never (I repeat NEVER) really was an MVP candidate. Sorry, never was. But he still is a better than average player who is in a slump.* Get over it. Purge yourself of the bile. Eat some yogurt, get an enema, say a few hari krishnas, close your eyes and breathe deep. Now repeat:
Peja is an ok player.
he is neither Kobe Bryant nor Luke Walton.
he is somewhere in between.
<exhale>
* (I think he is in a slump, but even if this IS all there will be from here on out, he is still better than average, and would be a good piece on a good team)
datamanwes
G-League
Peja is a very good shooter, Peja is ok as a defender except when he has mental lapses, Peja is not a good rebounder unless he feels he has something to prove. Peja would help any team he is on and every team in the league needs someone like Peja. That said he is not a leader of a team, nor I don't think he would ever claim to be
Peja's trouble is most of us King's fan always thought he was something he is not. what Peja lacks in the natural instincts to play the game, He always looks like he is thinking of not making a mistake instead of playing to win.
My personal feeling is Peja lacks some self confidence in his own play becasue deep down he knows he is not the player some of us/you thought he was. I also think Peja is not the type of person who will challenge another player to his face, Peja should challenge both Bibby when he is not dishing the ball and making stupiud shots or Miller when he is whining and making bad decisions. I don't see Peja doing that. I also don't think Peja has it in him to challenge Shareef or Bonzi to be better
All that said if this is Peja's last season with the Kings, I will have alot of very nice memories over the years of watching #16 hit many big shots. I just hope we don't give Peja up for nothing, At the same time I hope we don't give Peja the max either.
Peja for three- I wish we could here alot more of that for the rest of the season or at least until the trade deadline.
Peja's trouble is most of us King's fan always thought he was something he is not. what Peja lacks in the natural instincts to play the game, He always looks like he is thinking of not making a mistake instead of playing to win.
My personal feeling is Peja lacks some self confidence in his own play becasue deep down he knows he is not the player some of us/you thought he was. I also think Peja is not the type of person who will challenge another player to his face, Peja should challenge both Bibby when he is not dishing the ball and making stupiud shots or Miller when he is whining and making bad decisions. I don't see Peja doing that. I also don't think Peja has it in him to challenge Shareef or Bonzi to be better
All that said if this is Peja's last season with the Kings, I will have alot of very nice memories over the years of watching #16 hit many big shots. I just hope we don't give Peja up for nothing, At the same time I hope we don't give Peja the max either.
Peja for three- I wish we could here alot more of that for the rest of the season or at least until the trade deadline.
bozzwell
Starter
love_them_kings said:yes, if you love a sport it is more than just a game. But, not all professional athletes feel the same way. Some of them are in there because they LOVE the game, because they are passionate about winning, and because they can't imagine their life without it. These are your Jerry Rices, your Joe Montanas, your Chris Webbers, whose identity and purpose in life is tied into the sport they play. And, yes, I love those players whose passion is contagious & who would do ANYTHING to win. But, there's the other players. They are the players who are just exceptionally gifted at a sport, and yes, they have some love of the game (could hardly excel in it if they hated it) but they recognize that life outside it exists. Keep in mind, it is their JOB. How many of us are more passionate about our job than we are our families, our hobbies, or even our sports teams?
I'm not trying to argue with you. Peja isn't my favorite player, and part of the reason is that I prefer the passionate players. The Doug Christies or Bobby Jacksons that really have the passion to win. But you don't have to show emotion to be an exceptional player. It doesn't hurt, but it's not required. Just look at Tim Duncan.
Again, I haven't been a big fan of Peja since he asked for the trade, but in some ways I think he's trying harder this season. It may just be me, but it seems like he's trying harder to rebound, hustling more on defense, and acting a little more involved with the game. His shooting is just off. Way off. Whether or not that's the fault of his injuries, and what his injuries mean... well, that's another story.
I think you're confusing passion with determination/killer instinct. You don't get where Pedja is without a healthy dose of enthusiasm and passion. Now, whether he has lost it, it's all together different question.
Entity
Hall of Famer
piksi said:
Yeah he had a whole country voting for him (See Yao Ming)
you don't have to be good just popular in your country. So with so many americans in the NBA guess what the U.S. gets split into many players for voting purposes. Some even for Yao and Peja and Dirk..ect..
Purple Reign said:A caller on 1140, someone that has a well placed source said that Peja returned to Sac today to take a physical. DO NOT SHOOT THE MESSENGER
What would this mean? A trade or just his back is all messed up and he had to be cleared to play again?
bozzwell
Starter
Entity said:
You do realize that Serbia's entire population is smaller then that of Greater Chicago, and that net connectivity in the whole country was running at less then 5% at the time of voting. Even though Germany's population is 10 times bigger the Serbia, not too many people there care about basketball, let alone NBA. You make a good point about Yao, but it is simply not enough in case of European countries, otherwise Vlade would be 10 time all star before Pedja even registered as a blip in the voting.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
BMiller52 said:
Think the implication would have been trade, but not sure that really makes sense as the normal procedure is the trade is made first, fly to new city, get physical in new city by new team's docs, trade finalized.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Hell as well as Garcia and Martin and also Bonzi has played we can afford to take a chance on Artest. We lose Peja this offseason anyway and we can't get much worse so take the chance if it doesn't work Garcia has shown some light and we have yet another tradable piece with Artest. future Miller, Rahim, Corlis Trade for KG.
Bibby
Bonzi
Artest
KG
Skinner
Bench K-Mart, Garcia, Kenny Thomas, Hart, and a backup Center to be named later.
Bibby
Bonzi
Artest
KG
Skinner
Bench K-Mart, Garcia, Kenny Thomas, Hart, and a backup Center to be named later.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
bozzwell said:
Besides which all of that is irrelevant since to the best of my knowledge Peja has never even come close to STARTING an All-Star game because of fan voting. He was put on by the coaches when he made it.
And as an aside, collecting a lot of votes from the fans doesn't exactly carry a lot of weight anyway -- they'd vote in a corpse if he had a nice shoe commercial.
Entity
Hall of Famer
great idea for marketing brick. picture show some guy athletic looking getting dressed by a mortician with the tux and all then pan down to his shoes and have some sort of NIKE or whatever shoes on and just the words on the screen at the bottom. "shoes you WOULD be caught dead in."
ParniValjak
All-Star
This is the thing that is bugging me the most lately. He is missing shots that he has been hitting automatic. OK there are times when he forces the issue a bit but lately he has been missing open looks. He missed a few open looks against the Lakers, Magic and yesterday against Miami. 2 years ago he makes those shots. Hell pre pinky injury he makes those shots.piksi said:
Is the back affecting him more than we are lead to believe?????? Is his simply in some sort of shooting slump??????
I don't know the answers to those questions but I do know that he is missing open looks and that very unlike Peja.
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