Nobody is set with a 6'6" power forward, unless his last name is Barkley or Rodman. And I don't care how good his offense is, he averaged six rebounds a game. To steal a line from the Round Mound himself, that's more like a small forward.
How close are we ?
- Thread starter Megalodon
- Start date
Circa_1985_Fan
All-Star
I think Rick Adelman got a wake up call on starting a short guy(Hayes) that plays with heart at center...let alone being undersized to play PF. Landry plays with heart, and has skill...but is he someone who we can win a championship with as our starting PF?? Probably not...now can he play that same role as 6th man...yes, he can. We'd be better suited to(barring FA signing, of course)draft Cousins to play the 5 and start Thompson at PF again, then just find out what the heck Mr. Hawes can offer in his young, inexperienced state.
Bart-Poland
G-League
I read that sixers are ready will give number 2 NBA draft, but only with Brand
It means 51 milions$ for 3 years
It means 51 milions$ for 3 years
Aenadin
Starter
I read that sixers are ready will give number 2 NBA draft, but only with Brand
I wouldnt mind so long as they take in noc.... then buy out his contract or have a very expensive PF off the bench....
Kings Fan Gerard
Bench
Brand can't be that bad. I'd take this deal. Number 2 and number 5 would greatly help our cause.
Aenadin
Starter
If we can get favors at 2 and cousins or Wes Johnson/aminu with the fifth pick we pretty much leap frogged ourselves in the rebuild
what concerns me is that brand's contract is lengthy and quite expensive.... its like taking 3 nocionis with a side order of Sean may bad...
as far as championship goals.... i say 3 to 5 years tops..
playoffs... it could be this year.. or the next. we were pretty solid in the early get go till we inserted kmart again.
a healthy kings team is something to look forward to...
I will presume you mean the dwarf Landry is good enough for the mean time that we don't have any option at power forward. But if you mean Landry is good enough as our longterm starter at the 4 ( to match the likes of Gasols of the NBA ) I will suggest that we play in another league not named NBA. Maybe in the D-league we can win the championship.
I seem to have limited vision on the future. Next year gets my attention. I think the Kings will attempt to bring one starter and one "6-7-8" at another position, one of these two newies a the big defender. Even without getting "a major free agent" I think achieving that is doable and they will if they can. On top of that I can imagine them making a big investment if they get what they want. So I look forward to next season where the Kings will have at least two significant new parts. I see the ownership feeling big pressure to up the talent now. Doing it is tougher than wanting it. Good luck, GP/Maloof.
Instant gratification? "Nossir". I just think there's a point where you stop hoping and praying for a player to meet his "potential", and just call it what it is. Everybody reaches that point at a different time, and for me, it's now. Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes will never be the starting 4 and 5 on a championship team, IMO.
But again, to each his own. Perhaps you wanted to give Bobby Hurley a contract extension so he could reach his full "potential"? Perhaps you feel we should sign Kwame Brown, since he's full of "potential". Perhaps we should have done everything we could've to sign Christian Laettner, again cuz of his "potential."
You can call it instant gratification if you want, I call it watching 2 players who have low ceilings and aren't gonna take us anywhere.
Sorry Slim, forgot that you might be reading my post and that you never make errors. Pardon me for not proof-reading. But, as long as we're being obnoxious and nit-picky...
Dennis Rodman is 6'7", not 6'6"
And that point is two years?
15/8/3/1/1 (which is what Laettner averaged before he got hurt) might be bust-worthy out of the third overall pick in the draft. Out of the twelfth pick? Not as much. But I find it fascinating that you think that a player who was drafted towards the end of the lottery should be held to the same standards for being able to be an immediate impact as a player drafted at the beginning of the lottery.
But, you're right: Thompson should totally be expected to make as immediate an impact as, say, Kevin Love. That's why they went fifth and sixth in that draft...
Hey... wait a minute!
Program height, maybe.Dennis Rodman is 6'7", not 6'6"
And that point is two years?
15/8/3/1/1 (which is what Laettner averaged before he got hurt) might be bust-worthy out of the third overall pick in the draft. Out of the twelfth pick? Not as much. But I find it fascinating that you think that a player who was drafted towards the end of the lottery should be held to the same standards for being able to be an immediate impact as a player drafted at the beginning of the lottery.
But, you're right: Thompson should totally be expected to make as immediate an impact as, say, Kevin Love. That's why they went fifth and sixth in that draft...
Hey... wait a minute!
Program height, maybe.
Where in any of my posts did I say that I expected an "immediate impact"? Where did I discuss JT's draft position? When did I ever say that JT should have the same impact as Kevin Love? Knocking down straw man arguments is fun, I know, but all I said is that no team will win a championship with Hawes and Thompson in their starting line-up, and I feel very confident saying that "after only two (three for Spencer) years".
I'll be the first to eat my own words as soon as either of them proves me wrong. If JT somehow magically learns how to stop committing stupid, moronic fouls, and stops crying to the refs like a little ***** after every call, then I'll join you and hop on his jock. If Spencer realizes that he's a 7 foot center and focuses more on learning how to rebound than to jack up bricks from the 3 point line, then I'll be ecstatic and wouldn't want him out of Sacramento anymore. But the original question was what I would do personally if I wanted to build a winning team, and my answer is that I would try to cut our losses and find a real big man or two. Feel free to misinterpret that any way you like.
This is a bald-faced lie. Not a misinterpretation; a bald-faced lie. If that was, indeed "all you said," I would never have responded to you in the first place. The first time you even mentioned Hawes/Thompson and championship in the same sentence was after you replied to me.
What you said was that you'd "run out of patience" with a second-year and a third-year player. And then (after I replied, not before) you said that they'd never be starters on a championship team. You can claim straw man if you want to, but don't be obtuse: you may not have used the words "immediate impact," but when you say that a second and third-year player will never be good enough to start on a championship team, it doesn't take a magnifying glass to read between those lines... Now, I'll grant you that they'll probably never start together on the same championship team, but when you make claims like neither one of them will ever start on a championship team, you need to be able to explain why neither of them are as good as the likes of AC Green, Udonis Haslem and Fabricio Oberto.
I am completely confident that Thompson would develop into a very good player with a good center playing next to him and, frankly, can probably start for half the teams in the league if he never gets any better. Hawes, I'm not a big fan of, but a shoot-first center like him would be a great component on the bench of a contender. Just because they can't both start doesn't mean they can't both fit.
Mista 808
G-League
It may have already been said in a previous post (too lazy to read all the posts) but all the Kings would need is Lebron James to play on the same team with Tyreke and I'm pretty sure the Kings could go DEEP in the playoffs. 
I personally feel our team is better than Clevelands team minus of course LJ.
I personally feel our team is better than Clevelands team minus of course LJ.
Aenadin
Starter
a motivated hawes can give you 20 8 and 4 statline.... it has something to do with age and coaching we've barely had a steady coach for 2 years.... i dont think he regressed more like plateaued lets just hope he has another break through
agree, the kings is going to be a very good team in a couple of years from now, tyreke is diamond and i think we have some good young players around him, and if we will be lucky like last year (almost will be fine too) we might be a playoff team in even this year and defenitly next year.
we need some tough guys in the post.
Bart-Poland
G-League
here is nice article about Cousins. If somebody translete on English will be great
, This article is mainly about behaviour Cousina and team which select him can be in trouble, but who really knows
http://zawszepopierwsze.bloog.pl/id,5953862,index.html#komentarze
, This article is mainly about behaviour Cousina and team which select him can be in trouble, but who really knowshttp://zawszepopierwsze.bloog.pl/id,5953862,index.html#komentarze
If this is true, then by all means let us get rid of this kid ASAP. Very bad "prima dona" attitude for a borderline BUST.
Is your boy that big star already to act as if he is all high-up there and will only play well when he is motivated?
Hawes played relatively worse this year and under the current coach ( Westphal ). Does that mean we need to change our coach again so he can be motivated and play well?
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If this is true, then by all means let us get rid of this kid ASAP. Very bad "prima dona" attitude for a borderline BUST.
Is your boy that big star already to act as if he is all high-up there and will only play well when he is motivated?
Hawes played relatively worse this year and under the current coach ( Westphal ). Does that mean we need to change our coach again so he can be motivated and play well?
Well give him a season more to see how he progresses now that the team has some stability and he actually has real coaches he can work with. If he continues to play soft and not try hard then by all means get rid of him
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I'm not entirely sure I buy the Hawes line...I certainly don't buy the 20-8-4 thing. That's just typical fan stuff where every player on their team could be an All Star if... He's a talented player in all the ways you normally use the word "talent", but its hard to be consistent night to night as a gravy without the meat & potatoes. Not even sure who to compare him to around the league right now. Maybe a Charlie Villanueva figure amongst the centers.
But either way the interesting, or rather the problematic thing right now is that he is going into the final year of his rookie contract now. And so easy enough to say let's see how he does, then make a call, but the problem is you really don't want to lose him for nothing at the end of next season. So he will be a restricted FA, and if he does well, maybe he gets a big offer, and then you are stuck paying him $8mil a year (or whatever the equivalent will be under the new CBA), or you end up just losing him for nothing. I'm not sure I consider it a position of power to either a) hope he doesn't do well so you can resign him reasonably to a long term contract off a poor season, or b) if he does do well have to match a big offer for him off one good season to avoid him walking for nothing.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
trade him on draft day for a lotto pick? i'm not a fan of overpaying for a C that camps out at the 3 pt line chucking up shots. he was known coming out from college as a player with a post up game. i have yet to see him utilize that skill in the nba.
JoMama
Bench
Back to the topic: We're about 100 light years from seriously contending for a championship. Get real folks! The West is loaded with young teams going up the ladder (Memphis, Oklahoma City, Portland) and the Kings have huge holes to fill.
Jason Thompson will be a good player, IMHO, but we need an impact big man, a shooting guard who can shoot and a point guard that can shoot. Tyreke should improve his outside shot in a year or so. The team needs to be MUCH better at defending the paint and 3-point arc. And we need a stronger bench.
The good news is that the Kings may be ready to get a playoff spot in a year or two. The Maloofs need to spend some money on a marque free agent big man to seriously contend for a championship.
Jason Thompson will be a good player, IMHO, but we need an impact big man, a shooting guard who can shoot and a point guard that can shoot. Tyreke should improve his outside shot in a year or so. The team needs to be MUCH better at defending the paint and 3-point arc. And we need a stronger bench.
The good news is that the Kings may be ready to get a playoff spot in a year or two. The Maloofs need to spend some money on a marque free agent big man to seriously contend for a championship.
Uncia03
Starter
We're going to have a much better idea of how things stand after this summer.
This is the first time in a very long time that we've had cap flexibility. With the new CBA looming, it definitely is going to play havoc with the FA market, and we don't have any idea of where the Maloof's mindset is, when it comes to taking on extra salary.
We also don't know how this draft is going to play out. Is Cousins going to fall to us? If not, does Wes Johnson have the ball-handling needed to be a high-caliber SG? Do we try to trade up, or trade down? Do we make a deal with Philly and take on Brand to acquire the 2nd pick while keeping our 5th pick?
If we somehow came out of this summer with Turner, Cousins, and Brand, then I'd say we should be a playoff team next year.
Would the Maloofs consider paying for another mid-1st round pick this year if the opportunity came up? There are a number of bigs who might make such a move worthwhile if you're willing to allow them to develop.
If we save our capspace, and end up selecting Aldrich, Udoh, or (ick) Monroe, while making small moves to fill out our roster, then unless Tyreke jumps into the top 5 best players discussion or Donte puts it all together and pushes for All-Star status, we won't be looking at a playoff run this upcoming year.
At this point in time the only two players I would not trade is Tyreke and Donte. Tyreke because he's our star, and Donte, because if he can make the same leap this year as he did last year, he could easily become one of those 3rd/4th best players on a championship team. So I don't want to lose Donte unless it appears he's lost his ability to greatly improve.
I wouldn't want to lose JT or Casspi, as I believe they can be very solid pieces for this team, but if a great offer came along I'd consider it with reluctance.
Landry is going to be asking for a large pay raise after next year, so I'm just not sure how he is going to play out with this team. I think he's a fantastic 1st big off the bench type player, but don't feel that any team with him as their primary PF is going to be able to contend for a championship.
So at this point in time, the only thing I'm certain about is that we're set at the starting PG spot.
I think we're going to be set at the SF spot with either Donte and Casspi.
I also think that we could be set at the starting PF spot with JT, with Landry coming off the bench.
But ultimately this team is so young, and things could change so much, that's its very difficult to see until all the summer moves have been made.
This is the first time in a very long time that we've had cap flexibility. With the new CBA looming, it definitely is going to play havoc with the FA market, and we don't have any idea of where the Maloof's mindset is, when it comes to taking on extra salary.
We also don't know how this draft is going to play out. Is Cousins going to fall to us? If not, does Wes Johnson have the ball-handling needed to be a high-caliber SG? Do we try to trade up, or trade down? Do we make a deal with Philly and take on Brand to acquire the 2nd pick while keeping our 5th pick?
If we somehow came out of this summer with Turner, Cousins, and Brand, then I'd say we should be a playoff team next year.
Would the Maloofs consider paying for another mid-1st round pick this year if the opportunity came up? There are a number of bigs who might make such a move worthwhile if you're willing to allow them to develop.
If we save our capspace, and end up selecting Aldrich, Udoh, or (ick) Monroe, while making small moves to fill out our roster, then unless Tyreke jumps into the top 5 best players discussion or Donte puts it all together and pushes for All-Star status, we won't be looking at a playoff run this upcoming year.
At this point in time the only two players I would not trade is Tyreke and Donte. Tyreke because he's our star, and Donte, because if he can make the same leap this year as he did last year, he could easily become one of those 3rd/4th best players on a championship team. So I don't want to lose Donte unless it appears he's lost his ability to greatly improve.
I wouldn't want to lose JT or Casspi, as I believe they can be very solid pieces for this team, but if a great offer came along I'd consider it with reluctance.
Landry is going to be asking for a large pay raise after next year, so I'm just not sure how he is going to play out with this team. I think he's a fantastic 1st big off the bench type player, but don't feel that any team with him as their primary PF is going to be able to contend for a championship.
So at this point in time, the only thing I'm certain about is that we're set at the starting PG spot.
I think we're going to be set at the SF spot with either Donte and Casspi.
I also think that we could be set at the starting PF spot with JT, with Landry coming off the bench.
But ultimately this team is so young, and things could change so much, that's its very difficult to see until all the summer moves have been made.
Aenadin
Starter
If this is true, then by all means let us get rid of this kid ASAP. Very bad "prima dona" attitude for a borderline BUST.
Is your boy that big star already to act as if he is all high-up there and will only play well when he is motivated?
Hawes played relatively worse this year and under the current coach ( Westphal ). Does that mean we need to change our coach again so he can be motivated and play well?
he's no way in any sense my boy... I just dont like giving up on young talent just like that.
im not saying the coach should be changed... its good that westphal is pushing this kid and that ought to be the case... we shall see this year what he will do...
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I think one of the assertions was that the Kings would never win a championship with Thompson in the starting lineup. Hmmm! I suspect that depends on who the other four players are. Every player in the starting lineup of a championship team doesn't have to be a star. And they seldom are. But usually 2 out of the 5 are stars, and the other three are solid players that fit well and compliment the two stars. I can easily see Thompson being one of those. He did improve last year, although I'll admit it was a year full of ups an downs. But I was encouraged by his finish of the season. Hopefully it will carry over into next year.
Now Hawes is another story altogether. He did have a couple of nice games at the end of the year. But overall, its hard not to say your disappointed. The bad news is that he's already played three seasons and given us no reason to feel like he's the starting center of the future. Perhaps that was too lofty an expectation all along. Perhaps his future is as a backup center. Which does have value, but a disappointment none the less.
The good news is that he's still young. And to be fair to him, he been on a revolving door of coaches. The system has changed, along with the expectations of him, every year he's been here. This will be the first year where he starts the season with the same system, and coaching staff, as the season before. Lets not forget that Thompson went through 3 coaches in his two years. Now I know its easy to just discard that fact, but it does matter. Figuring out to what degree is the hard part. Systems do matter. Just ask Eddie Jordan. And players are stuck with whatever system the current coach wants to play. Some systems bring out a players strengths, and some do the opposite.
Why do you think Beno had a nice breakout year last year. Something he ate? No! Westphal found out what he was good at and ran plays to utilize those things. And Wa La, suddenly he looked like a player again. Having said that, it is a scarey thought that he couldn't do the same thing with Hawes. Anyway, I'm willing to give him another year, barring his inclusion in the trade that brings Bosh to the team. I'm certainly rooting for him to succeed. The team has three years and a lot of money invested in him. So it would be nice to see a return on it.
Good post, Baja. Very pertinent and I agree on both of our big guys.
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