When Do We Blow It Up?
- Thread starter Jdbraver137
- Start date
You could be right. The timing of firing Brown, then quickly trading Fox might be too much for Vivek's and McNair's images to bear. However, if you think about it, there are 18 games between now and the trade deadline. Which means there is considerable room for many more losses and fan disenchantment leading up to the trade deadline. If losses continue to mount, it will be even more evident that the coach was not the problem. The focus will then be placed on the players. Heck, even after one loss under their new coach the focus is starting to shift to the players.
Here's my bet:
Phase I: Brown is fired and scapegoated
Phase II: Losses continue to mount.
Phase III: The players now become the focus/target of immensely negative publicity because it's obvious Brown wasn't the problem
Phase IV: Players and their agents now are focused on whether they will be traded or not, leading to even more disinvestment in the team, which leads to:
Phase V: More losses and negative player publicity, which leads to the players urging or demanding to be traded.
Phase VI: A blow-it-up trade by Feb 6 to quell the swirling criticism of fans and media and the ceaseless demands of unhappy players.
Of course, if the blow-it-up trade doesn't occur by Feb 6, the drop, drop, drop of Chinese water torture caused by a peripheral trade you mention above could last into the summer when whoever is the GM does the blow-it-up trade.
Here's my bet:
Phase I: Brown is fired and scapegoated
Phase II: Losses continue to mount.
Phase III: The players now become the focus/target of immensely negative publicity because it's obvious Brown wasn't the problem
Phase IV: Players and their agents now are focused on whether they will be traded or not, leading to even more disinvestment in the team, which leads to:
Phase V: More losses and negative player publicity, which leads to the players urging or demanding to be traded.
Phase VI: A blow-it-up trade by Feb 6 to quell the swirling criticism of fans and media and the ceaseless demands of unhappy players.
Of course, if the blow-it-up trade doesn't occur by Feb 6, the drop, drop, drop of Chinese water torture caused by a peripheral trade you mention above could last into the summer when whoever is the GM does the blow-it-up trade.
I think the first question is what can we get for Derozan? If he can get us a league average starting wing, I say start with that and see what happens.
I don't think his offense is our problem at all. He's not keeping Huerter, Keegan and Fox from missing wide open 3s.
It's the defense and lack of size, which has been extremely apparent in every matchup with the Lakers.
I don't think his offense is our problem at all. He's not keeping Huerter, Keegan and Fox from missing wide open 3s.
It's the defense and lack of size, which has been extremely apparent in every matchup with the Lakers.
Denver killed him in the paint as well if we dealt with Portland we could get a lot bigger and Grant provides shooting. A bench of Carter, ellis, Lyle’s, and Timelord is pretty decent with a lot of defenders
Derozan, Huerter, Jones , first, and a second
For
Grant and Timelord
We could sneak in the playoffs and maybe make some noise
Derozan, Huerter, Jones , first, and a second
For
Grant and Timelord
We could sneak in the playoffs and maybe make some noise
he’s a bit of a tough fit for teams due to play style and the defense but guys who can easily put up 25 on great efficiency don’t grow on trees. Toronto has been mentioned. Bruce brown and Boucher? Could a team with great defensive infrastructure make sense like Orlando? What about a team like Philly for Yabusele and matching salary?
Alright, I have an updated idea/vision since...
BEFORE THE 2024-25 TRADE DEADLINE
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ATL GETS: PJ Tucker, Trey Lyles, Bones Hyland, 2026 SAC 1st (changing from top 10 protected to unprotected), 2026 LAC/MEM 2nd (Less favorable of the two), 2030 LAC/UTA 2nd (Less favorable for the two), & 2031 LAC 2nd
ATL GIVES: De'Andre Hunter & Larry Nance
WHY FOR ATL? The Hawks do this to ensure that they will get a 1st since the Kings could easily be a bottom 12 team this year and a bottom 10 team next year (leaving the Hawks with only 2 2nds). They also add 3 future 2nd round picks to add to their asset pool. They lose Hunter and Nance, but the Hawks have a lot of young, promising wings/forwards (Daniels, Risacher, & Johnson) and a couple good/solid Cs (Capela & Okongwu) so I don't think they will miss these guys all that much. Hyland might also be an upgrade at backup PG for them which can help them out this season (and he'd be a RFA next season so they have the flexibility to keep him long term if they think he's a good long term fit). The rest of the guys they acquire are expirings to help clean up their cap.
PG - Young / Hyland / Krejci
SG - Daniels / Matthews / Bufkin
SF - Risacher / Bogdanovic / Roddy
PF - Johnson / Lyles / Gueye / Tucker
C - Capela / Okongwu
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LAC GETS: DeMar DeRozan
LAC GIVES: PJ Tucker, Bones Hyland, Amir Coffey, 2026 LAC/MEM 2nd (Less favorable of the two), 2030 LAC/UTA 2nd (Less favorable for the two), & 2031 LAC 2nd
WHY FOR LAC? The Clippers are 23rd in ORTG and 4th in DRTG. They could really use another shotmaker to help carry the offense (especially since Leonard rarely plays). If Leonard is able to come back healthy, perhaps a Leonard, Harden, & DeRozan trio (surrounded by lengthy defenders who can space the floor) is enough to make some noise in the western conference. They could even look at making DeRozan a super 6th man which would allow the Clippers to prioritize a strong defensive starting lineup out of the gate.
PG - Harden / Dunn / Porter
SG - Powell / Mann / Christie
SF - DeRozan / Jones
PF - Leonard / Batum / Brown
C - Zubac / Bamba
------------------------------
SAC GETS: De'Andre Hunter, Larry Nance, & Amir Coffey
SAC GIVES: DeMar DeRozan, Trey Lyles, & 2026 SAC 1st (changing from top 10 protected to unprotected)
WHY FOR SAC? The Kings move on from the DeRozan era and send him to a team that 1) plays in his home town, 2) is on pace to win 48 games (and that's without their best player playing yet), and 3) has a clear need for a player with his skillset. In return, they get a long, athletic SF who can space the floor at a good level while also being able to provide some scoring. His age (27) also puts him right in line with our core. Nance would be an upgrade as a backup C as he's a good defender with size, length, and athleticism. He also gives us a lob threat which we can rely on for some bench scoring. Coffey gives us another bench wing to improve our depth as well.
PG - Fox / Monk / McLaughlin
SG - Ellis / Carter / Jones
SF - Hunter / Huerter / Coffey
PF - Murray / Crowder / McDermott
C - Sabonis / Nance / Len / Robinson
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DURING THE 2025 OFFSEASON
I'm assuming that we still would have missed the play-in/playoffs last season despite the trade proposal I posted above since...
------------------------------
TEAM X GETS: Malik Monk
TEAM X GIVES: Pick(s)/Asset(s)
------------------------------
UTA GETS: Kevin Huerter, Colby Jones, 2025 SAC 1st, Future SAC 1st(s), TEAM X Pick(s)/Asset(s)
UTA GIVES: Lauri Markkanen
WHY FOR UTA? I think it would be wise for UTA to completely bottom out and move the 27 year old Markkanen for a rebuilding package. This gives them multiple picks and assets to continue to build a long term winner.
PG - Sexton / Clarkson / Collier
SG - George / Juzang / Jones / Mykhailiuk
SF - Williams / Huerter / Sensabaugh
PF - Hendricks / Collins
C - Kessler / Filipowski / Eubanks
------------------------------
SAC GETS: Lauri Markkanen
SAC GIVES: Malik Monk, Kevin Huerter, Colby Jones, 2025 SAC 1st, & Future SAC 1st(s)
WHY FOR SAC? We do this to bring in another all-star level player to pair with Fox and Sabonis long term. Although Markkanen is not the ideal defender I want at PF next to Sabonis, he checks a lot of boxes. He's got great size, is a great rebounder for the PF spot, can space the floor at an elite level, is a very efficient 20+ PPG scorer, and is a lower usage player as far as scorers are concerned (allowing Fox and Sabonis to still handle the ball a fair amount). He's also 27 years old which puts him on the same timeline as our core and he is under contract for the next 4 seasons.
Losing Monk hurts, but I really like the idea of giving the majority of our guard minutes to Fox, Carter, and Ellis. That's a ton of defense, and that will be crucial since we'd be starting Markkanen and Sabonis in the frontcourt.
Also, I'd opt to decline Ellis' option and make him a RFA this offseason. Considering he's averaging just under 20 mpg this year (and he's still going to be competing with Fox, Monk, Huerter, and now Carter for guard minutes, I'm optimistic that we could resign him to a pretty affordable 3-4 year deal. Then, in this scenario, we'd be giving him a much larger role (26-30 mpg) after this trade goes down.
If Carter becomes the player I think he will be (and Murray returns to being a competent player offensively), a starting lineup of Fox, Carter, Murray, Markkanen, & Sabonis could be pretty darn good. Then you'd still have Ellis, Hunter, and Nance (resigned) off the bench.
PG - Fox
SG - Carter / Ellis
SF - Murray / Hunter
PF - Markkanen
C - Sabonis / Nance
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- DFS was just traded away to the Lakers
- Vivek more than likely will not let McNair tank/rebuild and wants to keep building around Fox
BEFORE THE 2024-25 TRADE DEADLINE
------------------------------
ATL GETS: PJ Tucker, Trey Lyles, Bones Hyland, 2026 SAC 1st (changing from top 10 protected to unprotected), 2026 LAC/MEM 2nd (Less favorable of the two), 2030 LAC/UTA 2nd (Less favorable for the two), & 2031 LAC 2nd
ATL GIVES: De'Andre Hunter & Larry Nance
WHY FOR ATL? The Hawks do this to ensure that they will get a 1st since the Kings could easily be a bottom 12 team this year and a bottom 10 team next year (leaving the Hawks with only 2 2nds). They also add 3 future 2nd round picks to add to their asset pool. They lose Hunter and Nance, but the Hawks have a lot of young, promising wings/forwards (Daniels, Risacher, & Johnson) and a couple good/solid Cs (Capela & Okongwu) so I don't think they will miss these guys all that much. Hyland might also be an upgrade at backup PG for them which can help them out this season (and he'd be a RFA next season so they have the flexibility to keep him long term if they think he's a good long term fit). The rest of the guys they acquire are expirings to help clean up their cap.
PG - Young / Hyland / Krejci
SG - Daniels / Matthews / Bufkin
SF - Risacher / Bogdanovic / Roddy
PF - Johnson / Lyles / Gueye / Tucker
C - Capela / Okongwu
------------------------------
LAC GETS: DeMar DeRozan
LAC GIVES: PJ Tucker, Bones Hyland, Amir Coffey, 2026 LAC/MEM 2nd (Less favorable of the two), 2030 LAC/UTA 2nd (Less favorable for the two), & 2031 LAC 2nd
WHY FOR LAC? The Clippers are 23rd in ORTG and 4th in DRTG. They could really use another shotmaker to help carry the offense (especially since Leonard rarely plays). If Leonard is able to come back healthy, perhaps a Leonard, Harden, & DeRozan trio (surrounded by lengthy defenders who can space the floor) is enough to make some noise in the western conference. They could even look at making DeRozan a super 6th man which would allow the Clippers to prioritize a strong defensive starting lineup out of the gate.
PG - Harden / Dunn / Porter
SG - Powell / Mann / Christie
SF - DeRozan / Jones
PF - Leonard / Batum / Brown
C - Zubac / Bamba
------------------------------
SAC GETS: De'Andre Hunter, Larry Nance, & Amir Coffey
SAC GIVES: DeMar DeRozan, Trey Lyles, & 2026 SAC 1st (changing from top 10 protected to unprotected)
WHY FOR SAC? The Kings move on from the DeRozan era and send him to a team that 1) plays in his home town, 2) is on pace to win 48 games (and that's without their best player playing yet), and 3) has a clear need for a player with his skillset. In return, they get a long, athletic SF who can space the floor at a good level while also being able to provide some scoring. His age (27) also puts him right in line with our core. Nance would be an upgrade as a backup C as he's a good defender with size, length, and athleticism. He also gives us a lob threat which we can rely on for some bench scoring. Coffey gives us another bench wing to improve our depth as well.
PG - Fox / Monk / McLaughlin
SG - Ellis / Carter / Jones
SF - Hunter / Huerter / Coffey
PF - Murray / Crowder / McDermott
C - Sabonis / Nance / Len / Robinson
------------------------------
DURING THE 2025 OFFSEASON
I'm assuming that we still would have missed the play-in/playoffs last season despite the trade proposal I posted above since...
- We made a head coaching change midseason and promoted the coach that was 4th in the pecking order.
- We're currently on pace to win 33 games
- The trade I proposed above is not a monumental change
------------------------------
TEAM X GETS: Malik Monk
TEAM X GIVES: Pick(s)/Asset(s)
------------------------------
UTA GETS: Kevin Huerter, Colby Jones, 2025 SAC 1st, Future SAC 1st(s), TEAM X Pick(s)/Asset(s)
UTA GIVES: Lauri Markkanen
WHY FOR UTA? I think it would be wise for UTA to completely bottom out and move the 27 year old Markkanen for a rebuilding package. This gives them multiple picks and assets to continue to build a long term winner.
PG - Sexton / Clarkson / Collier
SG - George / Juzang / Jones / Mykhailiuk
SF - Williams / Huerter / Sensabaugh
PF - Hendricks / Collins
C - Kessler / Filipowski / Eubanks
------------------------------
SAC GETS: Lauri Markkanen
SAC GIVES: Malik Monk, Kevin Huerter, Colby Jones, 2025 SAC 1st, & Future SAC 1st(s)
WHY FOR SAC? We do this to bring in another all-star level player to pair with Fox and Sabonis long term. Although Markkanen is not the ideal defender I want at PF next to Sabonis, he checks a lot of boxes. He's got great size, is a great rebounder for the PF spot, can space the floor at an elite level, is a very efficient 20+ PPG scorer, and is a lower usage player as far as scorers are concerned (allowing Fox and Sabonis to still handle the ball a fair amount). He's also 27 years old which puts him on the same timeline as our core and he is under contract for the next 4 seasons.
Losing Monk hurts, but I really like the idea of giving the majority of our guard minutes to Fox, Carter, and Ellis. That's a ton of defense, and that will be crucial since we'd be starting Markkanen and Sabonis in the frontcourt.
Also, I'd opt to decline Ellis' option and make him a RFA this offseason. Considering he's averaging just under 20 mpg this year (and he's still going to be competing with Fox, Monk, Huerter, and now Carter for guard minutes, I'm optimistic that we could resign him to a pretty affordable 3-4 year deal. Then, in this scenario, we'd be giving him a much larger role (26-30 mpg) after this trade goes down.
If Carter becomes the player I think he will be (and Murray returns to being a competent player offensively), a starting lineup of Fox, Carter, Murray, Markkanen, & Sabonis could be pretty darn good. Then you'd still have Ellis, Hunter, and Nance (resigned) off the bench.
PG - Fox
SG - Carter / Ellis
SF - Murray / Hunter
PF - Markkanen
C - Sabonis / Nance
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I’ve been saying that this will get much worse and as Hardboiled mentioned in his post, we need Brown’s structure and holding players accountable more than ever, not go away from it. Doug found out in game 1….this team is showing it’s incapable of sustaining any type of hard nosed defense or attention to detail. Even in his post game presser, Doug is literally saying the same thing as what Brown has been asking for for weeks.
Now putting on my speculation hat after reading some information, I think Monte was trying to tell Brown who to play, as in Keon. Could be why you saw Keon sit a couple of games for no apparent reason. Shades of Pete D’Allesamdro and Michael Malone. I have no proof of this but it does make sense that there became an obvious rift.
The rift widened when Klutch met with Monte and Monte maybe making another demand of Brown. Bottom line is Brown shouldn’t be told what to do by the GM.
In regards to Brown and his style, why is it that a guy like Ime Udoka can be Uber aggressive with his players and now they are reaping the rewards and his players are taking on his personality, which is a tough nosed team. Brown tries to hold his team accountable and he gets pushback. Fox and Keegan and DDR and Monk are nice guys. Brooks and FVV and Amen, etc are fierce pains in the ass.
We need to move Fox when the right deal goes on the table
Now putting on my speculation hat after reading some information, I think Monte was trying to tell Brown who to play, as in Keon. Could be why you saw Keon sit a couple of games for no apparent reason. Shades of Pete D’Allesamdro and Michael Malone. I have no proof of this but it does make sense that there became an obvious rift.
The rift widened when Klutch met with Monte and Monte maybe making another demand of Brown. Bottom line is Brown shouldn’t be told what to do by the GM.
In regards to Brown and his style, why is it that a guy like Ime Udoka can be Uber aggressive with his players and now they are reaping the rewards and his players are taking on his personality, which is a tough nosed team. Brown tries to hold his team accountable and he gets pushback. Fox and Keegan and DDR and Monk are nice guys. Brooks and FVV and Amen, etc are fierce pains in the ass.
We need to move Fox when the right deal goes on the table
I’m not disagreeing that trading Fox and tanking is the right approach at this point in time. I’m questioning if that’s even realistic knowing who our owner is.
I’m not going to hold it against McNair personally if this team chooses to not rebuild because that directive is very likely coming directly from Vivek. Are you going to hold it against McNair?
I’m not going to hold it against McNair personally if this team chooses to not rebuild because that directive is very likely coming directly from Vivek. Are you going to hold it against McNair?
Trading Fox before the deadline sets up a 2 year reset not a tear down and total rebuild. I don't think Vivek would object to that. I think what he probably wants to see first is if changing the coach nets any change.
He's a tech guy. That's troubleshooting 101. Make obvious change before bigger change before biggest change.
I guess the only question is whether trading Fox or firing Monte is his step 2.
He's a tech guy. That's troubleshooting 101. Make obvious change before bigger change before biggest change.
I guess the only question is whether trading Fox or firing Monte is his step 2.
If by tank you mean unload even Domas? Nah, yeah not going to happen anyway. That would be stupid. Even if they can't turn it around, the value could be much higher after this dust settles if they don't flip this around. Word was the Jazz wanted Keegan AND picks for Lauri. I doubt that has changed and if anything, because Keegan has kind of become a role player that might have taken the sheen off. It happens when players are 3 years in and kind of start looking like their baseline as opposed to their high end.
The Ellis idea is pretty smart actually. Probably have to hide him though and there's no way he'd be happy that. There's already that supposed liked trade of him to Philly by him. Not a good sign. It's pay up now, or later.
The Ellis idea is pretty smart actually. Probably have to hide him though and there's no way he'd be happy that. There's already that supposed liked trade of him to Philly by him. Not a good sign. It's pay up now, or later.
I’m holding blowing a a chance to be good on McNair.
The Davion pick was a F’ing disaster given our need for forwards and all the forwards who were still on the board. He had 2nd round picks he traded away or sold when forwards playing in the league were still on the board. Time will tell on the Carter pick but it could well be just as bad. Keegan was understandable but in retrospect the right pick was reaching for Williams. But Monte has never reached on a pick in his life with the exception of trading up for Jones ( yet another guard).
The man could well be the most risk adverse GM in league history and he has built an undersized roster full of guards as a result. His being risk adverse got us into this point. Time to show something other than middle manager Monte.
The Davion pick was a F’ing disaster given our need for forwards and all the forwards who were still on the board. He had 2nd round picks he traded away or sold when forwards playing in the league were still on the board. Time will tell on the Carter pick but it could well be just as bad. Keegan was understandable but in retrospect the right pick was reaching for Williams. But Monte has never reached on a pick in his life with the exception of trading up for Jones ( yet another guard).
The man could well be the most risk adverse GM in league history and he has built an undersized roster full of guards as a result. His being risk adverse got us into this point. Time to show something other than middle manager Monte.
Given Vivek’s reputation it would probably be a gold star in NBA Circles. And no that is not how it would be spun. It would be I felt strongly we had to go one way and Vivek wanted to go another so we agreed I was not the right person to execute his plan.
Most rational people would say…. Yeah that makes sense. Hell half the league won’t even interview for the job. Probably taking the job in the first place would hurt him more.
Most rational people would say…. Yeah that makes sense. Hell half the league won’t even interview for the job. Probably taking the job in the first place would hurt him more.
I'd rather root for a fun team I like than be in constant trash mode thinking that nothing matters unless we win a championship. So much - including blind luck - has to bounce our way for that to happen, and in this conference it's not going to happen anytime soon. STRIVING to win is everything, because that's what makes your players and organization constantly push to be better, and that's the heart of the experience of loving a team.
RA made a mistake shoehorning a recovering Webber back into a team that had learned to compete at a high level without him... the lack of patience for his return derailed all that progress and was costly. Similarly, theres a solid argument that we would have been better keeping Webber after the injury. He bounced back nicely into a playable piece and reinvented himself in a way that matched his new abilities/limitations. In both cases, we shot ourselves in the foot with our lack of patience by playing to the short game.
Successful organizations weather the storms of adversity and resist the temptation to make knee jerk decisions. If they do that, they eventually find themselves in a much better position to play for that championship... It's the same principle as passing up a good shot to get the team a great shot.
RA made a mistake shoehorning a recovering Webber back into a team that had learned to compete at a high level without him... the lack of patience for his return derailed all that progress and was costly. Similarly, theres a solid argument that we would have been better keeping Webber after the injury. He bounced back nicely into a playable piece and reinvented himself in a way that matched his new abilities/limitations. In both cases, we shot ourselves in the foot with our lack of patience by playing to the short game.
Successful organizations weather the storms of adversity and resist the temptation to make knee jerk decisions. If they do that, they eventually find themselves in a much better position to play for that championship... It's the same principle as passing up a good shot to get the team a great shot.
Sitting and thinking on this brown firing and listening to all the noise about Vivek, I’ve totally changed my mind. I do not trust Monty to blow anything up. He is so risk averse that I dont think he’s capeable of a complete rebuild, and that’s to say only if our owner was capeable and I don’t think he’s capeable at all. Vivek will have to sign off on any trade of Fox and frankly I think he would screw it up. It’s probably all moot anyway cause I think Vivek is gonna try to convince Fox to stay and Fox will eventually walk leaving the kings with zero compensation. I think that’s where this is all headed.
It's a slippery slope around here. People keep talking about a "rebuild" without the self-awareness that this team clearly cannot build to begin with. Trading away everyone for the sake of doing so, other teams aren't out there to help anyone but themselves and they'll fleece the Kings.
Be careful what you wish for.
Be careful what you wish for.