How close are we ?

#1
To being a championship team ?

What do you feel we need to do in order to being catapulted into the upper echelon teams in the next couple of years ?

I feel that we are relatively set with the PG and SF positions.

But after that we really aren't all that close ( or that far away :p ) from being a legitimate contender. I see Landry as a great backup PF assuming we resign him, and I think a big part of this teams success will be on whether Thompson can figure it out at either the PF or C positions. This would solidify us in one more position, but for the sake of this thread I'm going to assume it will be the PF position.

I feel we have glaring needs in both the SG and C positions. I'm not sure Garcia can be that guy next to Tyreke, but is a solid replacement off the bench. I'm not too big or low on Hawes, but feel we need to make a move for another center.

So if Cousins falls and we select him I can see this team contending with the following.

PG - Evans, Udrih
SG - ------, Garcia
SF - Greene, Casspi
PF - Thompson, Landry
C - Cousins, Hawes
--- = Free Agent
But I also think this can be a good line-up :

We trade our #5 and #33 to Memphis for Thabeet and pick #28.

PG - Evans, Udrih
SG - Bledsoe*, Garcia
SF - Greene, Casspi
PF - Thompson, Landry
C - Thabeet, Hawes
* = Draft a shooting guard with #25 or #28

I am young and consider myself a student of the game, not a teacher, so obviously I'm asking a lot of questions and my lineups are probably not even near a championship team. I also couldn't even find someone in Free Agency to put as a SG because of my ignorance on who would be a good fit with our other players, but thats what I made this thread for :) Other more knowledgeable fans opinions. I am sure there are plenty of options with Love/Jefferson and other trade scenarios.

Also I didn't see a thread like this anywhere else or know exactly where to have posted it, so mods feel free to move or delete if there is already a thread similar to this around. Hopefully this thread doesn't die too quickly but I killed some time and had some fun typing it up, thanks for your time reading all this also :D

PS:

Here are two good posts of free agents by Bajaden !

2010: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36404

2011: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37200
 
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#2
To being a championship team ?

What do you feel we need to do in order to being catapulted into the upper echelon teams in the next couple of years ?

I feel that we are relatively set with the PG and SF positions.

But after that we really aren't all that close ( or that far away :p ) from being a legitimate contender. I see Landry as a great backup PF assuming we resign him, and I think a big part of this teams success will be on whether Thompson can figure it out at either the PF or C positions, and solidify us in one more position, but for the sake of this thread I'm going to assume it will be the PF position.

I feel we have glaring needs in both the SG and C positions. I'm not sure Garcia can be that guy next to Tyreke, but is a solid replacement off the bench, and I'm not too big or low on Hawes, but feel we need to make a move for another center.

So if Cousins falls and we select him I can see this team contending with the following.

PG - Evans, Udrih
SG - ------, Garcia
SF - Greene, Casspi
PF - Thompson, Landry
C - Cousins, Hawes
--- = Free Agent
But I also think this can be a good line-up :

We trade our #5 and #33 to Memphis for Thabeet and pick #28.

PG - Evans, Udrih
SG - Bledsoe*, Garcia
SF - Greene, Casspi
PF - Thompson, Landry
C - Thabeet, Hawes
* = Draft a shooting guard with #25 or #28

I am young and consider myself a student of the game, not a teacher, so obviously I'm asking a lot of questions, and my lineups are probably not even near a championship team. I also couldn't even find someone in Free Agency to put as a SG because of my ignorance on who would be a good fit with our other players, but thats what I made this thread for :) Other more knowledgeable fans opinions. I am sure there are plenty of options with Love/Jefferson and other trade scenarios.

Also I didn't see a thread like this anywhere else or know exactly where to have posted it, so mods feel free to move or delete if there is already a thread similar to this around. Hopefully this thread doesn't die too quickly but I killed some time and had some fun typing it up, thanks for your time reading all this also :D

PS:

Here are two good posts of free agents by Bajaden !

2010: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36404

2011: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37200

the realist in me says 4 or so years

but the playoffs is 2 (optimist in me says 1) year/s away.... the front court needs to be adjusted and the best rebuild is done not in one year but in successive years.... last year was a great start drafting 3 young ones... the second year is going to cement that foundation and we start from there. if tyreke manages to find a consistent jumpshot. improves is court vision and hawes and JT become decent defenders and rebounders i see us being a good team.. not playoff ready but good.

the kings have the youth already this team just needs to realize they are young and have a lot of growing up to do not only individually but also as a collective group.

we dont need to jump the shark on a star free agent now... we need to grow our young players...look at cleveland stacked it up with vets and we know shaq doesnt have any more room to grow. in a figure of speech and literally :D and now they are on the brink of losing that impt piece...

i say collect and gather the young ones if you can geoff (damn that sounded wrong) :p
 
#3
Yea I feel it is better to build from within, but picking up some good free agents that buy into your vision can go along way me thinks ;)
 
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#4
Yea I feel it is better to build from within, but picking up some good freeagents that buy into your vision can go along way me thinks ;)
so long as the free agents indeed could click..... the kings are doing the right moves right now stock piling on talent...
 
#6
I think were getting closer.

Were at the point where if we dont do anything, we'll get better. If we dont sign anyone .. even if we didnt have a draft pick, we would be a better team next year. Thats a good sign, we were on the decline for a while, but now we are trending up.
 
#7
Wow championship already? As much as I would like to dream/discuss about that, I'm still trying to dream about making the playoff.

Lets start with playoff first. ;)
 
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#8
Wow championship already? As much as I would like to dream/discuss about that, I'm still trying to dream about the making the playoff.

Lets start with playoff first. ;)
Yep I agree. We only won 25 games this season and it looks more and more like 50 games is the minimum for making the playoffs in the west. So we are halfway there to becoming an 8 seed.....so we are a long ways away from being a championship caliber team. We have 1 superstar in the making and 11 young role players. Until we get some more elite talent on this team we will continue to be a lottery team.
 
#9
Wow championship already? As much as I would like to dream/discuss about that, I'm still trying to dream about the making the playoff.

Lets start with playoff first. ;)
Now I'm not saying it will happen soon, or even ever. I was just bored and wondered what people think would be a championship lineup and how many of our players now would still be in place.
 
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#10
To being a championship team ?

What do you feel we need to do in order to being catapulted into the upper echelon teams in the next couple of years ?


I feel we have glaring needs in both the SG and C positions. I'm not sure Garcia can be that guy next to Tyreke, but is a solid replacement off the bench, and I'm not too big or low on Hawes, but feel we need to make a move for another center.

So if Cousins falls and we select him I can see this team contending with the following.

PG - Evans, Udrih
SG - ------, Garcia
SF - Greene, Casspi
PF - Thompson, Landry
C - Cousins, Hawes
--- = Free Agent
But I also think this can be a good line-up :

We trade our #5 and #33 to Memphis for Thabeet and pick #28.

PG - Evans, Udrih
SG - Bledsoe*, Garcia
SF - Greene, Casspi
PF - Thompson, Landry
C - Thabeet, Hawes
* = Draft a shooting guard with #25 or #28

I am young and consider myself a student of the game, not a teacher, so obviously I'm asking a lot of questions, and my lineups are probably not even near a championship team. I also couldn't even find someone in Free Agency to put as a SG because of my ignorance on who would be a good fit with our other players, but thats what I made this thread for :) Other more knowledgeable fans opinions. I am sure there are plenty of options with Love/Jefferson and other trade scenarios.

Also I didn't see a thread like this anywhere else or know exactly where to have posted it, so mods feel free to move or delete if there is already a thread similar to this around. Hopefully this thread doesn't die too quickly but I killed some time and had some fun typing it up, thanks for your time reading all this also :D

PS:

Here are two good posts of free agents by Bajaden !

2010: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36404

2011: http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37200
IMO, we already have a very good back court. But unless we can upgrade our demoralizing frontline to the level that can compete with the likes of Howard, the tandem of Bynum and Gasol, or even the aging Garnet, Shaq, and Duncan, then we can never dream of being a contender for the championship.

Why do you think the Cavaliers and Mavericks acquired the aging Shaq and Hayward respectively?

You are right on tract on building a very good team when you want the Kings to upgrade its very inadequate frontline through this draft, especially that there is a lot of promising BIGS to be had. Good BIGS are very hard to find especially considering what other fans are saying that nobody in the free agency would want to play in cow town. So if we have a chance of acquiring our own promising BIG through this draft, we must go for it. And if there are teams willing to part ways with their promising BIG like Greg Oden ( Portland ) and Thabeet ( Memphis ) then by all means we should gamble and go for it.

It would be a high-risk move, but the reward could very well mean a near championship-caliber team in 2-3 years time.
 
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#11
Not close at all :(

and our draft misfortune hasn't helped one bit. My optimistic outlook says high lotto again next year then maybe late lotto the year after, but to be honest I could easily see us high lotto for at least two more years.
 
#12
And I feel if we get high lotto next year and the year after ... SWEET ! It would give us a chance to really draft some more high potential player to put on this team, and may mean that we will be dominate for years to come.
 
#13
I see the West outside of LA as wide open, alot of the top teams are criminally flawed and some even the window has been closed shut as of this playoffs.

Now it's strictly up to the players on this team to get better like they can and for GP to keep gathering young players who are tough minded and skilled. LIke somebody posted earlier we have our superstar and firmly believe if Reke comes into next season with a more worked on jumpshot he will for sure put up wilder numbers than his rookie numbers.

As for the core around him they are clearly not there yet and they will have to keep working hard. I simply see this team having to upgrade our bench, getting a paint clogging center and a couple guys games getting better (Donte,Spence)also being healthy wouldnt hurt at all and we can crack the top 8 in the west next year.

Winning a title on the other hand well ya never know but if this is the core we are gonna gun for the title with we are more than a few years away, I still think we need a dominant highly skilled big man to matchup with Reke, I just don't see any out there now or coming along in the future.
 
#14
I see the West outside of LA as wide open, alot of the top teams are criminally flawed and some even the window has been closed shut as of this playoffs.

Now it's strictly up to the players on this team to get better like they can and for GP to keep gathering young players who are tough minded and skilled. LIke somebody posted earlier we have our superstar and firmly believe if Reke comes into next season with a more worked on jumpshot he will for sure put up wilder numbers than his rookie numbers.

As for the core around him they are clearly not there yet and they will have to keep working hard. I simply see this team having to upgrade our bench, getting a paint clogging center and a couple guys games getting better (Donte,Spence)also being healthy wouldnt hurt at all and we can crack the top 8 in the west next year.

Winning a title on the other hand well ya never know but if this is the core we are gonna gun for the title with we are more than a few years away, I still think we need a dominant highly skilled big man to matchup with Reke, I just don't see any out there now or coming along in the future.
Which of these West teams have closed windows as of this year?

Everyone thinks the Spurs are too old, but they dismantled Dallas and played great in that series, not really ever showing their age. They ran into a better Phoenix team, but I really don't think their age held them back. As long as the core of Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili stay, they have 2-3 more playoff years left imo.

The Suns? Ama're is playing great, and Nash is having one of his best seasons. They're old too, but again, I don't see them missing the playoffs any time soon.

Dallas? As long as Nowitzki is there, they're a playoff team. And I don't think Cuban is going to stand pat after yet another embarassing 1st round exit. They'll be better.

The Nuggets still have a young Carmelo and will build around him and only get better.

The Jazz are young with Boozer and Williams, and even if they lose Boozer, they have money to spend to improve. They're not going anywhere.

The Blazers and Thunder are young and on the verge of becoming elite. The Hornets have arguably the best point guard in the game, who will be healthy next year. Hell, even the Clippers look great on paper and are getting Blake Griffin and another top pick in this year's draft.

So, imo, the Kings are nowhere close to competing with any of these teams. We have Tyreke, which is great. After that, it's a whole bunch of question marks. And now, we have the 5th pick in a 4-man draft, which doesn't help matters at all.

I just hope when mid-season rolls around, and we're 16-25 and sitting in 11th place, and those threads pop up about "hey should we tank and get a good pick?", that we all remember how it felt to see our logo in the envelope marked #5. Tanking = stupid.
 
#15
So, imo, the Kings are nowhere close to competing with any of these teams. We have Tyreke, which is great. After that, it's a whole bunch of question marks. And now, we have the 5th pick in a 4-man draft, which doesn't help matters at all.

Ok, but what do you feel we need to do to become one of the elite teams ? I don't think we will be for a number of years, especially not next year, but what problems do you feel we need to fix ... and how would you go about doing it ?
 
#17
Which of these West teams have closed windows as of this year?

Everyone thinks the Spurs are too old, but they dismantled Dallas and played great in that series, not really ever showing their age. They ran into a better Phoenix team, but I really don't think their age held them back. As long as the core of Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili stay, they have 2-3 more playoff years left imo.

The Suns? Ama're is playing great, and Nash is having one of his best seasons. They're old too, but again, I don't see them missing the playoffs any time soon.

Dallas? As long as Nowitzki is there, they're a playoff team. And I don't think Cuban is going to stand pat after yet another embarassing 1st round exit. They'll be better.

The Nuggets still have a young Carmelo and will build around him and only get better.

The Jazz are young with Boozer and Williams, and even if they lose Boozer, they have money to spend to improve. They're not going anywhere.

The Blazers and Thunder are young and on the verge of becoming elite. The Hornets have arguably the best point guard in the game, who will be healthy next year. Hell, even the Clippers look great on paper and are getting Blake Griffin and another top pick in this year's draft.

So, imo, the Kings are nowhere close to competing with any of these teams. We have Tyreke, which is great. After that, it's a whole bunch of question marks. And now, we have the 5th pick in a 4-man draft, which doesn't help matters at all.

I just hope when mid-season rolls around, and we're 16-25 and sitting in 11th place, and those threads pop up about "hey should we tank and get a good pick?", that we all remember how it felt to see our logo in the envelope marked #5. Tanking = stupid.

Most of those teams come under my personal thought of them being flawed teams. Say what you want about any of those teams but they are making changes to stay relevant and good while at the same time staring the fact that they will be rebuilding soon right in the face. The Spurs, Mavs and Suns have aging core superstars. The Jazz refuse to draft the type of players that would make them lethal with the best PG in the NBA. The Nuggets are a regular season bunch and have really low BBall IQ players. In New Orleans the owner supposedly wont spend to give CP3 a decent shot. Houston is right there but YaO Ming wants a extension and he is injury prone as hell.

Los Angeles, OKC and Portland are set for the next 5-8 years. OKC and Portland because of young talent and LA because Buss will always spend to get that next piece after Kobe.

Nobody can see into the future, but a person also can't deny when you look closely at the teams in the West that with the right drafting and spending here and there that if you build a team around Tyreke Evans they can crack the top 8 in the West. How far are we away from a championship? Plenty far, especially with the East shaping up to be the better conference in 2 years, but this team can crack the top 8 if the Maloofs learn from the owners of the Jazz and Hornets.
 
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#18
Ok, but what do you feel we need to do to become one of the elite teams ? I don't think we will be for a number of years, especially not next year, but what problems do you feel we need to fix ... and how would you go about doing it ?
First, I would address our problems with our big guys. We need a rebounder/shot blocker who is NOT soft and who does NOT average more fouls than boards. I know patience is a virtue, but I've run out of it with both Hawes and JT. I would try to package both of them AND JT if I could to get one guy who can give us some interior toughness. I've always liked Dalembert, maybe some combination of those guys for him would work. I would have also liked Cousins, but with our luck, I think we just lost him to Minnesota. So, I think we'll end up with Monroe, because GP likes big men who can pass (Vlade, Miller, Webber), and I'm fine with that.

Next, I would add a 3-point shooter, who does nothing but wait for Tyreke to draw a double team, and then knock down a 3 (our very own Channing Frye). I mentioned in another thread that all the championship teams of the last decade have had a great outside threat who hits the open 3's when their stars draw double teams (Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Ray Allen, Derek Fisher, etc.), and we don't really have that. Garcia could become that player for us, but I'm not holding my breath.

So that's how i would start. Pretty much anybody not named Tyreke is expendable imo, and I wouldn't be gun shy about trading players, even players that this board is overwhelmingly in love with because of their "potential" (Greene, Casspi, Thompson, Hawes, etc.). I think the only player we have that might make us regret it if we got rid of him (a la Gerald Wallace) is Donte Greene, so maybe I'd hold on to him for another year or two. But Thompson, Hawes, etc... don't let the door hit your soft little *** on the way out.
 
#19
Most of those teams come under my personal thought of them being flawed teams. Say what you want about any of those teams but they are making changes to stay relevant and good while at the same time staring the fact that they will be rebuilding soon right in the face. The Spurs, Mavs and Suns have aging core superstars. The Jazz refuse to draft the type of players that would make them lethal with the best PG in the NBA. The Nuggets are a regular season bunch and have really low BBall IQ players. In New Orleans the owner supposedly wont spend to give CP3 a decent shot. Houston is right there but YaO Ming wants a extension and he is injury prone as hell.

Los Angeles, OKC and Portland are set for the next 5-8 years. OKC and Portland because of young talent and LA because Buss will always spend to get that next piece after Kobe.

Nobody can see into the future, but a person also can't deny when you look closely at the teams in the West that with the right drafting and spending here and there that if you build a team around Tyreke Evans they can crack the top 8 in the West. The Maloofs need to learn from the owners of the Jazz and Hornets.
Yes, they are flawed in the sense that with their current line-up or current "plan" is not going to get them a championship, but they are still playoff teams. Yes, the Spurs are old, but do you really think that a team with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and an emerging Hill at PG will not crack the top 8 in the west? I don't buy it. The West is just too stacked, and we're a good 2-3 years away from joining the party. But we're getting there.
 
#20
We are really 1 superstar big away from being a contender. To win, we get that star and then FA's flock to town- we need a consistent and clutch shooter, and a defensive stopper.

2 major stars is the key- Reke is one. Drafting him put us far closer than where we were two years ago. Now we need our second star and some role players.


Maybe someone falls to us who is a big surprise and turns into that star we need in this draft. Maybe next year. Maybe never. We are as close as luck will take us.


Ask yourself this: how close were the 06-07 Celtics to a championship, or the 01-02 Kings?
 
#21
Imagine I'm holding my thumb and index finger with the slightest opening and saying a la Maxwell Smart, "missed it by that much".

We are not that close.

Now imagine I'm holding my thumb up to a person's index finger who resides on Uranus, and he has bent it backwards all the way (because they are double jointed on Uranus). That's about how far this team is from competing for title.

I don't think Hawes, Jason Thompson or Beno Udrih or Donte Greene will ever be part of a championship. The bad news is they are four of this team's better players.

I still root. But IMO they are painfully far away from being good. Maybe I'm just depressed over the lottery. Even though it's only a lousy position or two on an unknown player, it still counts as another loss.
 
#22
If the top pick can be an above average starter right away, and one of Greene/Casspi and one of Thompson/Hawes can berak, I'd say this team could be just outside the playoff hunt/.500 next season.

The next year, when the team uses the cap space on another FA and we can see which of the young guys are established, anything less than a legitimate playoff team would be disappointing.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#23
a championship? Look, its been over half a century since this franchise last won a championship. Saying how far are you from winning it all is just...you never know.

The steps we should know:

1) Next season, if we have a quiet summer, we should still be one of those teams that comes in talking about playoffs, is competitive, and then fades off for a win total in the mid 30s. This would be accomplished by nothing more than the arrival of one more talented kid, the development of all the youth we already have, and some smaller targeted FAs to patch weaknesses.

If we have a big summer in some way -- sign a major free agent, make a big trade, we could even get up into the 40s in wins, but in the West should still fall short of the playoffs.

2) 2 seasons form now, assuming we get to have a season without the powers that be in the NBA being dorks and locking out the season in a labor dispute, we should legitimately be lower rung playoff contenders.

3) 3 seasons from now we should be solid playoff contenders looking to maybe make the 2nd round

4) after that...you never know. The above steps are steps that many teams take. Reke's development, that of a couple of the other kids, FAs, trades, you can get there. Be winning 50 games. But the next steps, from playoff team to contender, from contender to champion, those are the rarities, and depend on developments not on the roster at this time. Its all speculation that far out at that level.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#25
First, I would address our problems with our big guys. We need a rebounder/shot blocker who is NOT soft and who does NOT average more fouls than boards. I know patience is a virtue, but I've run out of it with both Hawes and JT. I would try to package both of them AND JT if I could to get one guy who can give us some interior toughness. I've always liked Dalembert, maybe some combination of those guys for him would work. I would have also liked Cousins, but with our luck, I think we just lost him to Minnesota. So, I think we'll end up with Monroe, because GP likes big men who can pass (Vlade, Miller, Webber), and I'm fine with that.
1. So, you've run out of patience with a two-year player and a three-year player? Roger that; no sense of instant gratification with you... Nope, nuh-uh, nossir...

2. So, you'd like to trade both Thompson and Hawes AND Thompson?
 
#27
I am the biggest pessimistic-optimist you'll ever meet, and the realist in me says that IF we get a free agent of incredible value, a-la what Vlade did for us...WHOEVER that might be, but if we get a free agent of note that has leadership abilities, add that to our draft pick this year and next, along with the maturity of the kids...I say we'll be CONTENDER ready in: 2 years.
 
#28
last ad regarding "how close".

they are entertaining again - that's a start. I'm just a newbie in that I've only been a fan since 1999, so I'm spoiled by the fact that they were indeed championship contenders for a couple of years at the beginning of the 21st century.

Decent pick, decent free agent and I also feel they'll be playoff contender.
 
#29
Could you imagine if we could get Bosh ? how awesome would that be ? I doubt it happens though haha :)

I think we are a good draft pick and free agent away, and are set up to get both of them .
 
#30
I agree with most of your assesment. I think we are set at the PF with Landry if were able to put a starting defensive center next to him. I wouldn't say we have a glaring need at the SG position. Udrih and Garcia are nice fits and we need to just add another guard that compliments them. You left out Brockness. I think we can use him off the bench. The Kings should resign him. Also, you didn't mention what we need which is an Interior defender.

I like both lineups. I think Aldrich would be a nice fit for this team. Not sure about Bledsoe. The problem I see with the Cousins lineup is our interior defense doesn't improve as much as we need it too but I am willing to give it a try. I think Brockness should play over Hawes with this lineup. If we do land Cousins, IMO we really don't need Hawes and i'd much rather fill his spot with an interior defender.

With the Thabeet lineup we'll need to compliment him with a scoring PF who Landry is more of than Thompson. Hawes will be a servicable backup with this lineup.