SacKings384
Starter
I think Reke's lack of athleticism (in comparison to greats like LeBron, Wade, Kobe) will keep a ceiling on him. He just doesn't have that "wow" gear that the others do.
How Athletic is Tyreke... Check it out.
- Thread starter M_Barragan
- Start date
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Really? I see that "wow" factor every time he blows by one of the quicker pg's in the league. How high you can jump does not make you a better basketball player in the long run. Every player that relied on athleticism at one point in their career either changes and adapted their game at some point in their career, or they fell off and showed any improvement. Desmond Mason would be a good example of that.
Bottom line. I would rather have one of the quickest pg's in the league who has a great handle on the ball, rather than a guy with a 40+ inch vertical who never really had to learn the game.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
True, but when most players hit their prime they are no longer the athletes they once were. eveyrone either adapts, or shows little improvement as their careers go on. You're wrong about athleticism limiting Tyreke's upside. His understanding of the game, and offseason work ethic will determine how great of a player he becomes, not how high he can jump. Most guys don't reach their primes while still being the athlete they once were.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
The fact is you can't learn athleticism, other things you can learn. Does that mean a player will learn? No, but the point is it's possible. Athleticism on the other hand, no. It limits his upside in the sense that it would be much much higher if he had Wade like athleticism.
What is this athleticism you speaking of?
Is it base on just how high you jump?
To the best of my ability to tell, athleticism is that set of athletic traits that includes the ones that help your argument and excludes the ones that do not help your argument.
Or, from another point of view, athleticism is like the Supreme Court's definition of obscenity.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Yeah, too bad Tyreke will be limited by his lack of "athleticism." I'd hate to be stuck with PGs like Steve Nash, Tony Parker, or John Stockton.What is this athleticism you speaking of?
Is it base on just how high you jump?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Again, it doesn't limit his upside. Jordan, Kobe, and Wade have all gotten better as their athleticism has decreased. None of them rely or in Jordan's case, relied on athleticism when they reached their primes. Tyreke might be more exciting to watch for some if he was the athlete a young Kobe or Wade were, but it wouldn't make him a better player.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
What is this athleticism you speaking of?
Is it base on just how high you jump?
Yeah, I think that has become a bit of an overstated proxy here.
Reke has every athletic trait in spades EXCEPT leaping ability, and he's able to make up for much of the leaping ability issue with great size and long arms. Leaping ability might help you rebound, Reke does that. It might help you block shots, Reke does that as well. The only thing it limits is his ability to dunk the ball in traffic, which is a fairly mild concern. Reke plays PG. How many PGs in the league can dunk in traffic with any sort of ease?
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...and how many points do you get for each dunk? Is there something important for basketball success or winning that Evans doesn't have? I haven't noticed it yet. Being part of five guys on the floor and winning games is all that's important for me. I don't care if he is ROY as long as he contributes to a winning record. I haven't spotted the flaw yet.
rhythmless
Starter
To answer your very very biased question...
Rondo
Rose
BDiddy
Westbrook
Shannon Brown
Now, let's expand your line of questioning to include combo and shooting guards as well, which some people swear Tyreke is/will become. We add;
JJohnson
Crawford
Stephen Jackson
Josh Howard
Afflalo
Josh Smith
Ben Gordon
Dahntay
Bryant
Mayo
Wade
QRich
Brewer
Nate Robinson
Pietrus
Iguodala
JRich
Roy
Fernandez
DeRozan
Ronnie Price
Now, your question about pgs are irrelevant, since we have spent so much time bemoaning Tyreke's lack of true position. Let's use a position that is universally accepted he should be/become; Ball dominating guard as a central piece of a team/future team, if not an outright star. This will take out the stubby kids dependent on hops (Price, SBrown, etc) and reserves/kids who come in for big dunks, as well as aging players who once had the hops they no longer have.
My list...
Joe Johnson
Rondo
Rose
Curry/Ellis (never can tell what's gonna happen w/GS)
BDiddy
Mayo
Wade
Bryant
Jennings
Flynn
Harris
CP3
Westbrook
Nelson
Nash
Roy
Evans
Parker
DWill
I will now choose to remove those that are "pure" point guards. Their lack of height and athleticism are overshadowed by their ability to direct a team and gather an abundant amount of assists.
Rondo
Rose
Jennings
CP3
Nash
Deron
The subsequent list of ball dominators that are not labeled as true point guards are now:
Joe Johnson
Curry/Ellis (never can tell what's gonna happen w/GS)
BDiddy
Mayo
Wade
Bryant
Flynn
Harris
Westbrook
Nelson
Roy
Evans
Parker
Now out of these players, who cannot, or will not play above the rim?
Curry/Ellis
Flynn
Harris
Nelson
Roy
Evans
Parker
Most of the players left are stubby, with the exception of Roy and Evans. Why is this notable? All of the players that were removed as either a pure passer or a dunker are full fledged stars. I'm not advocating using this small sample of attributes as a barometer for Tyreke's success, but to me, this is something that is worth thinking about when people talk about the future success of Tyreke, and the importance of hops and playing above the rim.
rhythmless
Starter
Flawed argument.
Give me Lebron, Dwight, Wade, Melo, and me on a 5 man team vs the rest of the starting 5 in the NBA. We will win the majority of games, guaranteed. Does that mean I am important to winning?
Rookie
Starter
If you read his question...it state "in traffic with ease".
Just because they can dunk does not mean they can do it in traffic, fighting through the big and dunking on them. I don't see many if any PG dunking while a big man is guarding the rim. What I do see is Evans moving by the bigs a lot more often than other PG can.
My opinion:
I doubt any of them will be dunking over Evans. If anything it will be the other way around.
Observation:
As for Evans he uses his strength to push himself laterally which gets him to the rim faster for an easier layup. That is something you won't see many PG capable of (maybe capable but don't know how to play it to their strength). If he want to jump high, such as blocking shot, he had done so.
Your point? Evans is very athletic and more importantly is quite gifted in basketball skills. Now, the Sacramento Kings just need to win.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
how many pgs are 6'6? it shouldnt matter what position the player plays, do they have the size and athleticism to dunk in traffic? chris paul is a generous 6'0 and he can dunk with relative ease. if he were 6'6 he'd be flying all over the place. same goes for ellis, ben gordon, rondo and baron davis. evans at 6'6 cant even do what ellis does at 6'2... have you seen shannon brown jump? evans will never be that high above the rim even with the extra height and freakish wingspan...
with the way that he gets to the rim, you would wish that he could jump out of the gym. it would give him another option to use to either score or draw attention away from his teammates.
it sounds childish but the ability to throw it down is important... to hell with pgs, how many superstars can you name who were at least 6'6 who cant or couldnt dunk in traffic with ease?
lebron
kobe
wade, is only 6'4
mcgrady
carter
i dont want to get into players like mj... thats just not fair or even remotely realistic to compare evans to jordan.
rhythmless
Starter
My point was stated already. Seems as if you missed it.
You said the only thing that matters is winning, and that they are winning when he is on the floor. I provided a scenario where your point was irrelevant. I didn't even get into you saying you haven't seen a flaw yet.
It seems so simple to me, too, so don't feel alone. All this stuff about what certain skills Evans might or might not possess or eventually develop just seems like putting the cart before the horse.
Vlade4GM
All-Star
They may not be able to jump as high but they still could jump quick which is what Evans really lacks, explosiveness. And they could all still dunk in traffic.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
What is funny is that some of you act like Kobe and Wade throw it down on guys 3-4 times every game. I'm not comparing Tyreke to Lebron because Lebron is an absolute freak of nature athletically. But guys like Kobe and Wade are superstars because of their overall talent, work ethic, experience, and understanding of the game. Every offseason they add to their arsenal, and try to eliminate weaknesses. They dunk on guys in traffic once in a while, and it makes the sportcenter top 10, but its mainly a highlight reel, it looks good. It's not an every game occurance, and if you watch them play, neither is dunking on guys that often anymore.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It's hard to judge his explosiveness fairly when he's been playing on a hurt ankle.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Magic Johnson (the greatest of the PGs BTW)? Larry Bird (the greatest of the SFs)?
But of course I'm not going to be drawn into this stupid line of reasoning. Evans plays point guard. He doesn't play 6'6" guard. He plays PG. Very few of the dominant PGs have EVER run around dunking at will. I think Oscar Robertson was supposed to be a superior athlete -- before my time. But Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Isiah Thomas, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, CP3 etc. etc. rarely dunked the ball -- in fact more rarely than Tyreke in most cases -- and they are all in, or will be in, the HOF. If Tyreke's lack of hops restricts him to only a HOF career, I guess I will just have to live with it.
rhythmless
Starter
You missed my point, but just helped it. All of the under the rim "point guards" you mentioned were superior floor leaders. Tyreke, does not look to be a point guard in any mold of the aforementioned players. Superstars who play point are either above the rim players, or true floor leaders. If Tyreke progresses to a Magic Johnson, Kidd, Stockton, Payton, Nash, CP3 esque pg, then he does not need the hops.
Currently he is of the Lebron/Wade/Joe Johnson combo ball dominator who distributes second. All of those ball dominators have superior athleticism. Your post just helps me.
Widowmaker2k
Bench
Before my time, too, but there are plenty of clips available of him still around to evaluate his game, and plenty of guys still around who saw him play in the flesh.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B02E7D7163DF931A25752C1A96F9C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1NY Times said:
And, from Oscar's own mouth:
Oscar Robertson said:
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AriesMar27
Guest
if he played anything remotely like magic johnson we wouldnt be having this conversation. and all of the players that you mentioned are infinitely better at playing pg than evans will ever be. if evans ran the point like nash but was 6'6 no one would care if he could dunk. but he cant, he doesnt have the court vision or the passing skills to do half of the things that those players that you listed could do. hell, if beno or sergio were 6'6 they would be better than tyreke
. yeah i said it. it sounds stupid but its true.... 
at the end of the day tyreke will be limited a bit by his lack of athleticism. not by much, but it will keep him from being in that elite group of players that only have or need one name. kobe, lebron, wade... i know people who say, wtf is a tyreke? when i talk about evans... brandon roy is rolling over in his grave right now.
if he played anything remotely like magic johnson we wouldnt be having this conversation. and all of the players that you mentioned are infinitely better at playing pg than evans will ever be. if evans ran the point like nash but was 6'6 no one would care if he could dunk. but he cant, he doesnt have the court vision or the passing skills to do half of the things that those players that you listed could do. hell, if beno or sergio were 6'6 they would be better than tyreke
It sounds like the only thing Evans has going for himself in the NBA is that he 6'6". Can't see the court, can't dunk. Boy, I don't know how he's made it this far. I think I'll keep him and Beno - they are a couple of real contributors to what the Kings now do best.
rhythmless
Starter
Well AM has had an obvious bias against Tyreke. However, he does touch on the point i made in the huge list post a few back; ball dominating guards who are not pass first are ususally very explosive. The only one not is Brandon Roy, which imo limits him from a perennial all star/star to superstar.
Now, Tyreke has already matched Roy production, so nowhere am I saying that he is not a star, or won't be a star. I am jsut saying that the guards who are legitimate tier 1 guard superstars in today's game are either pass 1st pgs or athletic scorers. Maybe Evans will change that, maybe he won't. I'm just making an observation.
NME
Starter
I don't see how it's leaping that prevents Roy from being a superstar. Tyreke is explosive in ways that Roy is not, leading the league in shot at the rim with 8.3 to Roy's 4.2.
rhythmless
Starter
I already said Reke = Roy's production. Nowhere did I say that Tyreke isn't explosive laterally.
He just lacks that extra "he had jets in his shoes!" jump. I'm not saying he cannot get around it. I'm just saying that all BALL DOMINATING PASS SECOND GUARD SUPERSTARS have those jets.
He just lacks that extra "he had jets in his shoes!" jump. I'm not saying he cannot get around it. I'm just saying that all BALL DOMINATING PASS SECOND GUARD SUPERSTARS have those jets.
