Hasheem Thabeet

I don't think people understand how unbelievably raw this kid is. He's not going to learn what he needs to in practice or playing in the NBDL. He's just simply not mature enough for the NBA yet, it could totally dwarf his potential. Of course we can afford to wait, but we can't afford to wait for nothing.

Have no idea why he couldn't learn what he needs to someplace other than college -- if anything college should be a relatively bad place to learn basketball skills. Few games, less talented opponents, classes and other distractions etc. But its just a question of whether some team wants to have him learning those basics on their dime or not. That's more second round gamble stuff than lottery guaranteed big money. Unless a guy is a Euro and can be stashed/developed on the dime of a European squad without costing his NBA team money, its hard to commit guaranteed $$ to a guy who is years away. If he is of course. I have seen very little of him.
 
Well college he's going to get personal attention, PT, and quality coaching and training. He's not going to get all of that in the NBA or NBDL. Even if you force played him in the NBA he's not going to stay in the game very long more than likely picking up a lot of fouls and getting beat a lot, it will hurt his confidence.
 
I don't think people understand how unbelievably raw this kid is. He's not going to learn what he needs to in practice or playing in the NBDL. He's just simply not mature enough for the NBA yet, it could totally dwarf his potential. Of course we can afford to wait, but we can't afford to wait for nothing.

He's not THAT raw. This isn't someone who has no skills, and besides, he's starting with the most important things for a big man: serious size, serious athleticism, and good hands. Skills can be learned, particularly with someone who's as coordinated as he is.
 
He has patience on the shot block, so being a foul liabilty is not as bad as some make it out to be. I think he only fouled out once. The thing is that im not arguing that we turn him into a Ming or Duncan. But i think we can turn him into a 7'3 version Ben Wallace. Some forget all Ben Gives is REBS and Blocks with occasional put back points. I think this kid could learn to give us that. And THAT is more then most of the 6'8 guys that we have a chance of picking up. Remember 6'8 guys with talent come all the time 7'3 guys with atleticism come along very rarely. He wont be a Kobe skill wise but Kobe will think twice driving to the basket with this beast standing in the lane.
 
Draft Express:

One of the more disturbing cases considering the magnitude of his decision as far as his long-term development goes, we’re receiving strong indications from numerous sources that Uconn's freshman Hasheem Thabeet is seriously considering entering the draft. This has all the makings of a potential disaster, eerily reminiscent to another highly regarded Big East prospect a few years ago--Chris Taft.

Compared to Tyrus Thomas, and billed as "an athletic Mutombo" by a preseason article written by Andy Katz, Thabeet has been blocking shots at a nice rate, but everything else about him so far has been a massive disappointment. He's cracked double-digits in the scoring column just five times this season thus far--against Fairfield, Albany, Pepperdine, Coppin State and St. John's--and has used his massive 7-3 frame to pull down 10 rebounds just four times, again against the weakest competition UConn has faced. Defensively, beyond his shot-blocking, Thabeet has been lit up by every (even marginal) NBA prospect he's gone up against, whether it’s giving up 13 points and 10 rebounds to an equally raw freshman in Omar Samham (St. Mary's); 19 points, 11 rebounds to Herbert Hill(Providence); 19 points, 11 rebounds to David Padgett (Louisville); 21 points to DJ White (Indiana); or 22 points, 19 rebounds to Aaron Gray (Pitt).

Offensively, we've seen little to no progress since the beginning of the season. Thabeet still shoots the ball from the back of his hand, still doesn't understand how to properly bend his knees and go up for a simple dunk, is not able to palm the ball despite having very big hands, and is almost incapable of catching a post-entry pass due to his poor hands and non-existent reaction time. At this point, considering the way he looks, it's safe to say that he’s light years away from being able to contribute anything on this end of the floor.

Most people would tell you that's fine, because Thabeet is 7-3, has a very good frame, and moves better than 98% of the 7-footers we've evaluated...meaning he has a very good upside. "Saer Sene was drafted 10th!” they say, not realizing the difference between last year’s draft class and this one, while also failing to take into consideration the stark differences between the two players as far as their work ethic and attitudes are concerned.

The fact that he has a huge upside is probably true, but at the same time, we have to consider just what the likelihood is of Thabeet ever actually reaching his ceiling and achieving that upside, which is just as important a part of the equation, particularly if he’s to rot on an NBA bench for the next four years. That probability of reaching said upside takes a significant nose dive when you actually watch him play, look at the way he carries himself on the floor, and talk to people who have spent time watching him practice.

Thabeet seems to have little to no interest in using his size and strength to help his team as a rebounder, not playing with much energy, refusing to get dirty and go after loose balls, and displaying a very low basketball IQ in everything to do with his anticipation skills. In practice, people who have watched him have come away with the impression that Thabeet is not a hard worker at all. He makes faces when asked to do extra work, and generally acts like he's being punished by being required to do crucial drills for his development that other players don't participate in. This lack of a high-energy motor and work ethic is usually the kiss of death for a player who is as raw as he is. He will need years of individual work before anything can be expected from him at the NBA level. Once teams find out what we're learning, if they haven't already, it can be more than enough to drop a player like him into the second round. Contrary to popular opinion, the NBA is not nearly as interested in developing raw talent from scratch as many would lead you to believe, as the coaching staff just doesn’t have time to teach the fundamentals of the game during a grueling 82 game season.

Usually we would not go out of our way to blast a freshman who clearly came into college with the billing of a project, having only played basketball for a few years. The thing is: we feel that considering the unaccountable hype around him--currently projected as the #6 pick in the 2007 draft by nbadraft.net and the 16th best prospect by ESPN's Chad Ford—there needs to be another side out there to put things in proper perspective. Players, families, AAU coaches and agents process all this information and often act on it without being able to find anyone that’s able to give them a second opinion (NBA people are generally not interested in taking part in this process), but when disaster strikes, the player will have to pick the pieces up by himself while outlets like ours move onto the next batch of prospects. Chris Taft was rated similarly by the same exact people at this point in the season two years ago (ourselves included). He ended up going in the mid-second round and is currently out of the NBA.

What’s sad is that Thabeet is actually contemplating making a selfless decision that has just as much to do with his family situation as it does with himself. His mother and siblings are still in Tanzania, and his father passed away just a few years ago. It’s a difficult decision indeed for a teenager to make, especially with the lure of so much money looking so close. The question is: how much in long-term earnings will he be losing by leaving so early? No one can say that for sure, and plenty depends on Thabeet’s internal motivation.

We don't doubt the fact that Thabeet could very well end up figuring things out and reach his massive potential in a couple of years, but his chances of doing so while sitting on an NBA bench significantly lessen in our opinion, as compared with opting to stay in college and learning from his very well respected coach, Jim Calhoun. UConn has developed players like Emeka Okafor and Hilton Armstrong into lottery picks despite starting off with much less to work with in terms of pure physical attributes, but it took them three and four years in college respectively. For the final word on this topic, we'll defer to Louisville Head Coach and former NBA head coach and General Manger Rick Pitino, who has sent quite a few players to the league in his own right:

"A guy like Thabeet, who we recruited, three years from now will be one of the best players in college basketball…Or, if people put the notion in his head because he's 7-foot-3, he'll sit [on] the bench [in the NBA], he'll never make a second contract, and never make any money in his life. So, hopefully, the right people get hold of him and be intelligent."

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Just thought people could use a good reality check about him from the professionals. I don't think people realize how much he truly has to overcome.
 
He has patience on the shot block, so being a foul liabilty is not as bad as some make it out to be. I think he only fouled out once. The thing is that im not arguing that we turn him into a Ming or Duncan. But i think we can turn him into a 7'3 version Ben Wallace. Some forget all Ben Gives is REBS and Blocks with occasional put back points. I think this kid could learn to give us that. And THAT is more then most of the 6'8 guys that we have a chance of picking up. Remember 6'8 guys with talent come all the time 7'3 guys with atleticism come along very rarely. He wont be a Kobe skill wise but Kobe will think twice driving to the basket with this beast standing in the lane.

He gets blocks because of his athleticism and length. Other than that he's very poor defensively. He's going to be facing much better competition in the NBA. Picking someone JUST because of size and athleticism is just plain dumb.
 
I'm not quite sure what Jonathan Givony has against Thabeet, but this article lacks all balance. I mean, yes, great to provide a counterpoint, but he seems singlehandedly out for a smear job when the situation doesn't warrant it. In particular, I don't know what he's talking about claiming Thabeet has bad hands and a slow reaction time. In the games I watched him in, and according to every other scouting report I've read, people praise him for his good hands.

I think Thabeet kicked Givony's dog or something. Either that or he's just peeved that nbadraft.net was onto Thabeet before he was.
 
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I'm not quite sure what Jonathan Givony has against Thabeet, but this article lacks all balance. I mean, yes, great to provide a counterpoint, but he seems singlehandedly out for a smear job when the situation doesn't warrant it. In particular, I don't know what he's talking about claiming Thabeet has bad hands and a slow reaction time. In the games I watched him in, and according to every other scouting report I've read, people praise him for his good hands.

I think Thabeet kicked Givony's dog or something. Either that or he's just peeved that nbadraft.net was onto Thabeet before he was.

Care to post it?
 
Care to post it?

nbadraft.net:
Strengths: For his immense size, Thabeet is an above average runner of the court … Does a great job of getting initial post position by using his body wide and sealing off his defender … Has soft hands. Rarely does he bobble passes and catches with few problems no matter the distance or speed of the pass … Shot blocking skills are top shelf … His explosiveness: getting off the floor quickly is mind blowing for a player his size ... Physically he has all the tools needed to continue with his long arms and first-rate timing … Unlike many young players he has learned to be a very patient shot blocker that rarely bites on pump fakes … Has yet to even scratch the surface of his vast potential … Although still learning the game, he doesn’t have a lot of bad habits … Very coachable in that whatever flaws he has in his game can be easily corrected … Shows solid outlet passing ability which is rare for a player with his level of experience … Although his post moves are unrefined, Thabeet has shown reasonably good touch … Above average defensive rebounder … Shows decent upper body strength, which should greatly improve and great athleticism for his size…

Weaknesses: Offensively Thabeet remains raw and undeveloped … Struggles to maintain his position in the post where he tends to get rooted out by smaller players … Although as mentioned above he is an above average runner on the court he still could improve his foot speed … Like many players his age, Thabeet’s post footwork is a work in progress although to his credit it has improved since his breakout Global Games performance … Should continue to learn how to block out more aggressively when working for the offensive rebound … Movements are a bit mechanical but this doesn’t seem to affect his coordination right now … Free throw shooting is below average, however he does show good form and confidence with repetition he should become solid before the season is over … Back to the basket skills are in need of improvement … Not much of a face-up player … Offensive court awareness is evolving but still is a few steps behind. This is evident when he is finishing around the basket as he loses where he is in relation to the basket or rushes his shot …
Matthew Maurer- 11/17/2006

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html


Chad Ford (insider):
Positives: He's huge. Big-time rebounder and shot blocker. Excellent athlete who runs the floor very well. Explosive leaper. Good hands. Developing offensive game. Has added a nice turnaround jumper. Appears to be a fast learner ... his play seems to improve from game to game.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/tracker/player?playerId=19024&draftyear=2007
 
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Well I tend to give more cred to draftexpress, they always give more detailed reports and have much better rankings and predictions. Also, nbadraft's profile was written last november.
 
I take them all with a grain of salt. Go back a few years and read some archived articles.

5 to watch in 05
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=81

So who are these five promising players?

1. Adam Morrison; OK, I'm fine with that one.

2. "(Malik) Hairston is a lottery-caliber player whenever he decides to declare."

OK, dead wrong on that one.

3. "
At a legit 6-10, (Josh Boone) reminds me of a Kwame Brown or Antonio McDyess-type athlete, and looks like a legit Eastern Conference Center type."

I'm not that excited about him, myself. But we will see.

4. "
I think (Quemont Greer) can make the switch, and develop into a physical, overpowering wing in the mold of Shawn Marion or Ron Artest. Call him a first round sleeper for now."

Call him an undrafted guy who is sleeping in the NBDL.

5. "
I see no reason why Rodney Carney can't have a Josh Howard-like impact in his rookie season. A team would be getting a potential steal if he falls to the bottom of the first round in 2005 or 2006."

Did Josh Howard only get 6 points and 2 rebounds a game in his rookie year? I thought he did better than that...

Anyway, you get the idea. Everybody's just guessing. That's why I occasionally post a composite mock draft list, compiled by averaging several of them. There are none I really trust.
 
^Definitely agree. I try to combine my own (decidedly amateur) observations with a sort of combination of different opinions out there. In Thabeet's case, I thought he looked like a very athletic big with good hands, Ford thought so, and nbadraft.net thought so. Draftexpress is the outlier. I'm high on Thabeet. Assuming he declares, there hasn't been a big like him in the draft for years, and no matter how raw he is, who couldn't use a 7'3" athlete??
 
I take them all with a grain of salt. Go back a few years and read some archived articles.

5 to watch in 05
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=81

So who are these five promising players?

1. Adam Morrison; OK, I'm fine with that one.

2. "(Malik) Hairston is a lottery-caliber player whenever he decides to declare."

OK, dead wrong on that one.

3. "At a legit 6-10, (Josh Boone) reminds me of a Kwame Brown or Antonio McDyess-type athlete, and looks like a legit Eastern Conference Center type."

I'm not that excited about him, myself. But we will see.

4. "I think (Quemont Greer) can make the switch, and develop into a physical, overpowering wing in the mold of Shawn Marion or Ron Artest. Call him a first round sleeper for now."

Call him an undrafted guy who is sleeping in the NBDL.

5. "I see no reason why Rodney Carney can't have a Josh Howard-like impact in his rookie season. A team would be getting a potential steal if he falls to the bottom of the first round in 2005 or 2006."

Did Josh Howard only get 6 points and 2 rebounds a game in his rookie year? I thought he did better than that...

Anyway, you get the idea. Everybody's just guessing. That's why I occasionally post a composite mock draft list, compiled by averaging several of them. There are none I really trust.

That was written dec 30, 2004.
 
^Definitely agree. I try to combine my own (decidedly amateur) observations with a sort of combination of different opinions out there. In Thabeet's case, I thought he looked like a very athletic big with good hands, Ford thought so, and nbadraft.net thought so. Draftexpress is the outlier. I'm high on Thabeet. Assuming he declares, there hasn't been a big like him in the draft for years, and no matter how raw he is, who couldn't use a 7'3" athlete??

You can't decide who you're going to take with your lottery pick JUST on size and athleticism. He's not so big and so athletic where he can get away with not knowing how to play the game. One thing we do know about Thabeet and that's he's going to take a long time to develop and who knows if he'll ever develop into anything worthwhile.
 
You can't decide who you're going to take with your lottery pick JUST on size and athleticism. He's not so big and so athletic where he can get away with not knowing how to play the game. One thing we do know about Thabeet and that's he's going to take a long time to develop and who knows if he'll ever develop into anything worthwhile.

I'm telling you, he's not as raw as people think, especially not defensively. This isn't some guy hopping off a plane trip from Africa, he spent a year playing against very good competition. He struggles with smaller guys (I remember he had trouble against DJ White from Indiana), because he's not quick enough to guard 6'8" tweener power forwards. But in the NBA, where he's matched up against centers, he's going to be one of the biggest and most athletic guys out there.

Absolutely he's a project, he's going to take some time. But this is not Saer Sene we're talking about here. The upside for a 7'3", coordinated, athletic guy is off the charts. And what I'm saying is that if your 6'10" unathletic "skilled" power forward busts or your not-that-quick 6'0" point guard busts, you're screwed. There will always be a need for legit seven footers in the league no matter how unskilled they are -- just look at the Collins twins.

There's much less bust potential for an athletic seven footer than there is for supposedly "skilled" players. Look at Diop, Dalembert, Chandler, Hunter, heck, even Johan Petro didn't look so terrible this year. The worst case scenario isn't that bad. I'd much rather the Kings "gambled" on the potential of Yi Jianlian or Thabeet than a dime-a-dozen guy like Acie Law or Spencer Hawes. To me, the true gamble is when you draft guys who aren't athletic. There are way more guys like Hawes that have busted than guys like Thabeet.
 
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I'm telling you, he's not as raw as people think, especially not defensively. This isn't some guy hopping off a plane trip from Africa, he spent a year playing against very good competition. He struggles with smaller guys (I remember he had trouble against DJ White from Indiana), because he's not quick enough to guard 6'8" tweener power forwards. But in the NBA, where he's matched up against centers, he's going to be one of the biggest and most athletic guys out there.

Absolutely he's a project, he's going to take some time. But this is not Saer Sene we're talking about here. The upside for a 7'3", coordinated, athletic guy is off the charts. And what I'm saying is that if your 6'10" unathletic "skilled" power forward busts or your not-that-quick 6'0" point guard busts, you're screwed. There will always be a need for legit seven footers in the league no matter how unskilled they are -- just look at the Collins twins.

There's much less bust potential for an athletic seven footer than there is for supposedly "skilled" players. Look at Diop, Dalembert, Chandler, Hunter, heck, even Johan Petro didn't look so terrible this year. The worst case scenario isn't that bad. I'd much rather the Kings "gambled" on the potential of Yi Jianlian or Thabeet than a dime-a-dozen guy like Acie Law or Spencer Hawes. To me, the true gamble is when you draft guys who aren't athletic. There are way more guys like Hawes that have busted than guys like Thabeet.

Aaron Gray is 7-1 280, that sounds like an NBA sized center and Thabeet got lit up by him.

Do I have much doubt he'll stick in the NBA just on his size and athleticism? No, not really but this is our lottery pick we're talking about. I really don't want to get into an argument over what's better skills or athleticism because I really don't think it has to be one or the other, I give the slight edge to athelticism because you can't teach it but skills are important as well because just because they "can" learn it doesn't mean they will. I'm just trying to stress to you how unbelievably difficult it would be for Thabeet to learn as much as he needs to on an NBA bench. I don't see why the discussion has to be such a black and white comparison of non-athletic skilled players vs is non-skilled athletic players. That's not the exact scenario we're facing. If they want to trade for him separately I won't have a problem with that but wasting our key lottery pick on a complete shot in the dark when it isn't necessary is rediculous.

You can talk ceilings, upside, and potential all day long it means exactly nothing unless it's reasonably conceivable they can achieve it. I see your point in guys like Diop being able to stick around and are less likely to bust but we have no great need for a 3 years pre-Diop. I'd much rather go after a player that has a reasonable shot at becoming a mainstay starter/borderline all-star on this team. If you wanna talk Hibbert or Jianlian I'm all ears but I just see no reason to take such an enormous risk in throwing away our lottery pick.
 
Too many questionmarks surrounding a guy that we are considering with a top ten pick. He does not merit top ten. Sorry, but it's true...
 
If our First Rounder isn't high enough to draft Hibbert, I wouldn't mind taking Conley with it and then trading Bibby for a second first rounder in the mid teens and using that to take Thabeet.
 
Like the last girl left in the bar, Thabeet is starting to look better just by continuing to be there. I think that picking him over Hibbert would be insane, but now it's more like him, Splitter, or some little guy, and that makes Thabeet sound like a far more reasonable proposition.

That's not to say that I'm sold on him yet, but the guys I'm sold on are no longer options.
 
Exactly, who else is left for us? More 6'7 tweeners? We already have plenty of those. We need a big man. Thabeet has been playing for 4 years now. He has much to learn. Shooting, dribbling and passing is not one of them. Blocking shots and getting rebounds by using your length and athelecism is. I have seen the kid play, no where is he as bad what that article makes him sound.

This kid will be something in the NBA, it might not be an offensive juggernaut but he will be a beast in the lane. That is more then what is left for us to pick. Best case scenerio is that we trade for him on draft day and dump a contract.
 
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